Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida Roots)

[Craben]

Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida

Ketch, your piece apparently has struck a nerve with certain embedded thoughts:

That a significant portion of the highly recruited players coming out of Texas high schools each year aren't going to develop into top college players. That because Heard was great in h.s., he is immediately ready to be great in college.

 

[leary80]

Did you really have ten thoughts and not one of them was about the touchdown by my all-time favorite Longhorn - Fozzy.

The Fozzy Whittaker story is one of the great Horn tales of recent times. Seeing him and Cory Redding and Sam Acho make big plays filled me with burnt orange pride. Hell, I am even excited about Garrett Gilbert being the Patriot's third team QB.

 

[BigGulpHorn15]

The Heard column needs to be reposted weekly until the season starts. The VAST majority of QB's need a redshirt

 

[HooksEm]

turning an 18 year old in to a "skilled fighter" may be a little bit of a stretch. A serviceable fighter would be more accurate. Having someone that is willing to lay down their lives and having someone know the intricacies of a foot thick play book are two totally different things. I don't think you can compare 'em.

 

[kwayne64]

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by kwayne64:

Originally posted by murphy7:


Every major program program in the country recruits the hell out of Texas. But the players aren't really very good because they have position coaches and nice facilities. BS. I've got no issue with what Strong has done with this class. But no need demeaning the value of Texas High School kids in an effort to justify him recruiting Florida so hard. If he truely believes these pampered Texas kids can't cut it, they will pick up on that within the team. That will be a disaster. I know I'll get bashed for that opinion.

Why blame Strong for Ketchum's story about a completely different guy and his wild speculation tying Strong to this belief. There's not a shred of evidence that Strong feels this way.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Oh, I think there's plenty of evidence that Strong is frustrated by his players, most of which hail from Texas, and that he plans to build a bi piece of his foundation with players that have different ideologies than many of those coming from this state.

It's the reason I wrote the column.

Ketch, I agree that it’s clear that Charlie is not pleased with what he’s getting from his current players, I just think it’s somewhat of a stretch to assume that he generalizes that attitude to Texas players as a whole.  Part of the reason he’s had to turn his focus to his old stomping grounds in Florida is that he was not getting traction with many of the top players here in Texas, which I think had a lot more to do with negative recruiting than anything else.  Every school that recruits the state saw Texas’ transition as an opportunity and these kids have heard for months about how Charlie’s offense doesn’t suit them,  how Texas didn’t have a single player drafted, how they will never have a minute of fun playing under Strong and how the Big 12 is a dying conference.  The bottom line is that Charlie has a job to do and he’s gotta get his players period, whether they’re from Texas or not.  Clearly if he finds good ones here, he’s going to take them.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[longhorn4444]

Ketch, you might have to repost that part about Heard one a month because people around here have no patience.

 

[Esoteric2112]

Originally posted by Ketchum:
ate,

Originally posted by kwayne64:
It seems that every one of this year's playoff teams disagrees with the goofy take put out there by the guy in Ketchum's story as the all have key, if not indispensable Texas players, who were highly recruited out of high school and who are not from East Texas.

I can't imagine that Ohio State considers J. T. Barrett to be a recruiting mistake or that Florida State would send Mario Edwards Jr. back. The same would be true for A'Shawn Robinson at Alabama and Torrodney Prevot at Oregon. There's a reason that these out of state schools are falling all over themselves to pull talented players out of Texas. Entitled players with attitudinal problems are found everywhere.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

You pretty much missed the point as well.

The article does not suggest that great players cant or don't come from Texas. Only someone super-sensitive would fail to see that I was offering up a different view of Texas talent that any outside the state, especially from the Southeast, have about Texas players.

There's no reason to list players from the state are successful because everyone knows that they do exist.

This was about openly discussing a rep that has existed for a long time.

So you aren't saying it has any basis in fact, just that people have that perception?

 

[Esoteric2112]

Originally posted by leary80:
Did you really have ten thoughts and not one of them was about the touchdown by my all-time favorite Longhorn - Fozzy.

The Fozzy Whittaker story is one of the great Horn tales of recent times. Seeing him and Cory Redding and Sam Acho make big plays filled me with burnt orange pride. Hell, I am even excited about Garrett Gilbert being the Patriot's third team QB.

Wait, Gilbert is a NFL QB? Awesome.

 

[HorntoWin]

Excellent Ketch. One of your best pieces. Gave us an insight into Charley Strong's likely thought process that no one else has. Charley, a hungry walk-on from a dirt poor upbringing, believes he has a keen eye to spot hungry talent. I'm confident he does. I believe in future years he'll find the majority of it in Texas (one can still be hungry and driven to succeed even if one played with good coaches and facilities), but I love that he's swung the door open wide to fertile S. Florida. I just hope the impressive Florida 5 have the tools to do the academic work required at UT. I suspect Charlie, a disciple of academic rigor, has reason to be confident these young men, under his tutelage, can develop the study habits to be successful, if they haven't already.

 

[cujo0622]

Didn't Butch Davis have similar thoughts and was even quoted during a press conference saying such a thing when he was at UNC.

Davis said the facilities that the player has available to him in high school can lay a trap for a recruiter.

"You may be buying the finished product," Davis said. "There's a little bit of that in Texas. Those schools have got more money than God. They have a strength coach, 15 high school coaches. The players have been in the same program since sixth or seventh grade. You get them and four years later they are the exact same player.

"You go to Pahokee, Fla., where a kid eats once a day, his parents may not be around," Davis said. "You get him in a weightlifting program. Two years later, he's three times better than the kid from Texas."

This post was edited on 1/5 10:28 AM by cujo0622

 

[TopSirloin]

Originally posted by cujo0622:
Didn't Butch Davis have similar thoughts and was even quoted during a press conference saying such a thing when he was at UNC.

Davis said the facilities that the player has available to him in high school can lay a trap for a recruiter.

"You may be buying the finished product," Davis said. "There's a little bit of that in Texas. Those schools have got more money than God. They have a strength coach, 15 high school coaches. The players have been in the same program since sixth or seventh grade. You get them and four years later they are the exact same player.

"You go to Pahokee, Fla., where a kid eats once a day, his parents may not be around," Davis said. "You get him in a weightlifting program. Two years later, he's three times better than the kid from Texas."

This post was edited on 1/5 10:28 AM by cujo0622

Fantastic quote Cujo

 

[bovine_12]

Ketch,

As an athletic trainer I have worked in West Texas (80's & 90"s), East Texas (2000's), and now in the metroplex for last 8 years. I can see what that coach was talking about. When I first arrived here in the DFW area my first thought was these kids, not all, were way softer than east Texas kids. By majority the kids in east Texas would set their hair on fire to win just a battle in a game. There is a different way of living in east and west Texas that I do think has a lot to do with mentality. That being said, DFW has a much bigger pool to choose from, and there are very competitive kids here too. I would like to see numbers of players in NFL from each region just to get a picture of what the percentages are. Would be an interesting study.

Thanks for sharing!
Hookem!

 

[bucky katt]

Story about football in Pahokee, Florida...

(If at work, may want to hit mute. There is audio.)
This post was edited on 1/5 10:39 AM by bucky katt

Football As a Way Out

 

[CPHornfan]

1) mentioned Tony Levine in previous posts as possible coaching hire. Seems like other boards are starting to mention him now also...what do you think about this hire?

2) do you think Strong would consider offering blueshirts going forward?

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by leary80:
Did you really have ten thoughts and not one of them was about the touchdown by my all-time favorite Longhorn - Fozzy.

The Fozzy Whittaker story is one of the great Horn tales of recent times. Seeing him and Cory Redding and Sam Acho make big plays filled me with burnt orange pride. Hell, I am even excited about Garrett Gilbert being the Patriot's third team QB.

failure on my part. Sometimes those little moments get lost when so uch else is covered. Crossed my mind a couple of times to find a gif of the play.

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by kwayne64:

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by kwayne64:

Originally posted by murphy7:


Every major program program in the country recruits the hell out of Texas. But the players aren't really very good because they have position coaches and nice facilities. BS. I've got no issue with what Strong has done with this class. But no need demeaning the value of Texas High School kids in an effort to justify him recruiting Florida so hard. If he truely believes these pampered Texas kids can't cut it, they will pick up on that within the team. That will be a disaster. I know I'll get bashed for that opinion.

Why blame Strong for Ketchum's story about a completely different guy and his wild speculation tying Strong to this belief. There's not a shred of evidence that Strong feels this way.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Oh, I think there's plenty of evidence that Strong is frustrated by his players, most of which hail from Texas, and that he plans to build a bi piece of his foundation with players that have different ideologies than many of those coming from this state.

It's the reason I wrote the column.

Ketch, I agree that it’s clear that Charlie is not pleased with what he’s getting from his current players, I just think it’s somewhat of a stretch to assume that he generalizes that attitude to Texas players as a whole. Part of the reason he’s had to turn his focus to his old stomping grounds in Florida is that he was not getting traction with many of the top players here in Texas, which I think had a lot more to do with negative recruiting than anything else. Every school that recruits the state saw Texas’ transition as an opportunity and these kids have heard for months about how Charlie’s offense doesn’t suit them,  how Texas didn’t have a single player drafted, how they will never have a minute of fun playing under Strong and how the Big 12 is a dying conference. The bottom line is that Charlie has a job to do and he’s gotta get his players period, whether they’re from Texas or not. Clearly if he finds good ones here, he’s going to take them.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I didn't say he had this generalization. I simply wrote about its existence.

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

So you aren't saying it has any basis in fact, just that people have that perception?

Oh, there's some truth in it because a lot of those things mentioned are true, especially as it relates to how far along Texas players are on their upside chart vs. others in areas with fewer advantages.

However, I would never paint with such a broad paintbrush.

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by cujo0622:
Didn't Butch Davis have similar thoughts and was even quoted during a press conference saying such a thing when he was at UNC.

Davis said the facilities that the player has available to him in high school can lay a trap for a recruiter.

"You may be buying the finished product," Davis said. "There's a little bit of that in Texas. Those schools have got more money than God. They have a strength coach, 15 high school coaches. The players have been in the same program since sixth or seventh grade. You get them and four years later they are the exact same player.

"You go to Pahokee, Fla., where a kid eats once a day, his parents may not be around," Davis said. "You get him in a weightlifting program. Two years later, he's three times better than the kid from Texas."

This post was edited on 1/5 10:28 AM by cujo0622

Good find.

 

[HookemChargers]

Same here but would take a good transfer and not Kai.

 

[Esoteric2112]

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

So you aren't saying it has any basis in fact, just that people have that perception?

Oh, there's some truth in it because a lot of those things mentioned are true, especially as it relates to how far along Texas players are on their upside chart vs. others in areas with fewer advantages.

However, I would never paint with such a broad paintbrush.

There is some truth to every generalization.

There is some truth to the thought that all South Florida kids are thugs, but that doesn't mean there aren't kids there that can survive in Strong's system.

 

[cujo0622]

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by cujo0622:
Didn't Butch Davis have similar thoughts and was even quoted during a press conference saying such a thing when he was at UNC.

Davis said the facilities that the player has available to him in high school can lay a trap for a recruiter.

"You may be buying the finished product," Davis said. "There's a little bit of that in Texas. Those schools have got more money than God. They have a strength coach, 15 high school coaches. The players have been in the same program since sixth or seventh grade. You get them and four years later they are the exact same player.

"You go to Pahokee, Fla., where a kid eats once a day, his parents may not be around," Davis said. "You get him in a weightlifting program. Two years later, he's three times better than the kid from Texas."

This post was edited on 1/5 10:28 AM by cujo0622

Good find.

ironically, the year after he got fired, he was a guest speaker at the Texas HS coaches convention. Don't remember which coach was it, but it was from a small school, actually asked him about that quote during a Q&A session. Butch had a "want to get away" moment.

 

[CPHornfan]

Originally posted by danlaw08:

My dream picks for the Six Slots....

QB: Kai Locksley (Baltimore, MD)
RB: Chris Warren (Rockwall),
OL: Drew Richmond (Memphis, TN)
WR: Carlos Strickland (Dallas Skyline)
DT: Daylon Mack (Gladewater)
DB: Holton Hill (Houston Lamar)

Warren
Kai
Boyd
Hill
Newsome
Mack

 

[CPHornfan]

Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by RLong68:

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by RLong68:

Originally posted by THE_Ohio_HORN:
No way I'm betting against Urban Meyer in this NC game.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Certainly hard to lay 7 points against his team. FWIW, I would caution people against getting caught up in the final score of the Oregon/FSU game. FSU had little problem moving the ball. Obviously they had a BIG problem holding on to the ball. But it's doubtful Oregon gets that type of good fortune.

As for Fields, was his visit date confirmed since we obviously know he isn't coming in both on the 16th and 23rd?

a. Oregon could have scored 80 against FSU if it had wanted to run it up in the 4th quarter.

b. 16th. My fault.

This post was edited on 1/5 8:42 AM by Ketchum

Suchomel's thread says the 23rd as does Rivals.

He originally said the 16th and then it became the 23rd all in about 24 hours. It's the 23rd, confirmed last night via text.

conflicting info here...I am reading fields in coming in on the 30th

 

[I Hear Voices]

turning an 18 year old in to a "skilled fighter" may be a little bit of a stretch. A serviceable fighter would be more accurate. Having someone that is willing to lay down their lives and having someone know the intricacies of a foot thick play book are two totally different things. I don't think you can compare 'em.

I said I was being dramatic. I wanted to make the point that people can be trained to do things that they have never done before. And I never even thought about learning a playbook, but rather how training can motivate people to perform at a higher level, including adopting a "kill or be killed" attitude about the task in front of them.

The comment was intended to call into the question the notion that Texas kids cannot be trained to do something they have not previously done or to improve. I believe football players can get better, especially when they have skilled, motivated leaders as their coaches. I believe their attitudes can be changed, but as most know change often takes time and must be continually managed.

There has been a lot of talk about culture change on this board in the last year. I believe it is necessary, and yet I also believe that players currently on the team can adapt and change accordingly. The only ones that I would write off would be the ones the coaches have identified as not being able to change. I cannot make that call. I am not there everyday and I have to trust the judgments of coaches.

I believe Coach Strong has a good idea what he believes are the necessary personnel ingredients to consistently win. In my mind that means both players and coaches.

It is also been pointed out many times on this board that Coach Strong and his staff were well behind other football programs who recruit in Texas because of a lack of established relationships with Texas high school coaches and players. The comment I often read was that Texas was behind at this juncture for the the services of the better players and that it may be a couple of years before we could be expected to effectively compete for the elite Texas players.

In the meantime, we have to get players from somewhere. If Florida is that place this year, then so be it.

Based on what I have seen so far, Texas will recruit players outside of Texas going forward in order to supplement our efforts in state. After all, we have been identified for years as a "hot bed" for high school players and I cannot imagine that we would turn our backs on a state that has produced many great players for Texas and other universities.

 

[jspirohorn]

Even though he didn't actually say it out loud, I think your college assistant friend was implying that (playing the averages) places with poor, fast black kids make the most fertile recruiting grounds. Even though the NFL statistics bear out his opinion, I disagree with him on the basis that Texas high school football is played so well around the entire state that UT's best shot at a perennial top 10 program is by copying Mack Brown's recruiting approach with 5 or 6 targeted OOS kids mixed in. Mack allowed the program to get soft; it didn't get soft because kids from Houston, DFW and Austin are entitled.

Strong probably has a proven reputation at Louisville among Miami high school coaches for molding at-risk kids on their last chance. It would be interesting to see if those kids were his first choice when he was at U. of Florida.

 

[Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer]

Originally posted by cujo0622:
Didn't Butch Davis have similar thoughts and was even quoted during a press conference saying such a thing when he was at UNC.

Davis said the facilities that the player has available to him in high school can lay a trap for a recruiter.

"You may be buying the finished product," Davis said. "There's a little bit of that in Texas. Those schools have got more money than God. They have a strength coach, 15 high school coaches. The players have been in the same program since sixth or seventh grade. You get them and four years later they are the exact same player.

"You go to Pahokee, Fla., where a kid eats once a day, his parents may not be around," Davis said. "You get him in a weightlifting program. Two years later, he's three times better than the kid from Texas."

This post was edited on 1/5 10:28 AM by cujo0622

We have seen a lot of that in recent years

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by CPHornfan:
1) mentioned Tony Levine in previous posts as possible coaching hire. Seems like other boards are starting to mention him now also...what do you think about this hire?

2) do you think Strong would consider offering blueshirts going forward?

a. solid.

b. possibly, have to as him his thoughts on it.

 

[Ketchum]

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

So you aren't saying it has any basis in fact, just that people have that perception?

Oh, there's some truth in it because a lot of those things mentioned are true, especially as it relates to how far along Texas players are on their upside chart vs. others in areas with fewer advantages.

However, I would never paint with such a broad paintbrush.

There is some truth to every generalization.

There is some truth to the thought that all South Florida kids are thugs, but that doesn't mean there aren't kids there that can survive in Strong's system.

"There is some truth to the thought that all South Florida kids are thugs"

No, there isn't.

 

[cujo0622]

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

Originally posted by Ketchum:

Originally posted by Esoteric2112:

So you aren't saying it has any basis in fact, just that people have that perception?

Oh, there's some truth in it because a lot of those things mentioned are true, especially as it relates to how far along Texas players are on their upside chart vs. others in areas with fewer advantages.

However, I would never paint with such a broad paintbrush.

There is some truth to every generalization.

There is some truth to the thought that all South Florida kids are thugs, but that doesn't mean there aren't kids there that can survive in Strong's system.

wow.....WOW i tell you...very ignorant post to say the least..

 

[bygdoy]

Ketch-- If you are willing to and had to give a % chance for each, what are the chances you'd guess right now that Gilbert Johnson and Clarington are enrolled at UT when classes start next fall?