ND Game.....

[TexExSpur]

The games where you say the defense was healthy and reference the low scores is misleading as well...Those teams were extremely poor performers on offense.


They also changed defensive scheme going into 2014.

Injuries[/B]

Any analysis that doesn't peg injuries as the primary cause of this free fall isn't being fair to the parties involved.

Notre Dame's defense has been decimated by injuries. They've hit both key personnel and the limited depth that was being counted on to play important reserve minutes.

The first domino to fall was middle linebacker Joe Schmidt, who was injured against Navy. Schmidt's absence has been felt both on the field and off—both before the snap and during the action.

Against the run, the Irish have struggled greatly without Schmidt in the middle of the defense. As freshman Nyles Morgan has learned on the fly, the defense has given up big-chunk runs at an alarming rate.

In the 13 quarters without Schmidt, the Irish have given up 31 runs of 10 yards or more. They allowed just 25 in the seven-plus games Schmidt played behind Sheldon Day and Jarron Jones.

Speaking of Day and Jones? They've been lost for the rest of the season, with Kelly hoping that Day will return for the bowl game.

The coaches never had a true contingency plan for the defensive tackle position in absence of the duo, and it's forced Kelly andVanGorder to try and replace two players they knew going into the season really weren't replaceable.

Freshman Daniel Cage played well behind them but has missed time with his own knee injury. That's forced fifth-year afterthought JustinUtupo into the lineup and pulled the redshirt off of freshman Jay Hayes.

The rest of the injuries have chipped away at the foundation of the unit. Middle linebacker Jarrett Grace has been unable to play after last season's catastrophic leg injury that broke in four places. TonySpringmann retired before the season started after failing to get past a knee injury.

Safety Drue Tranquill is the latest hard-luck injury at a position that's seen Austin Collinsworth missing for most of the year and NickyBaratti go down with another season-ending shoulder injury. Throw in Cody Riggs, whose foot injury has robbed the Irish of their most versatile cornerback.

Simply put, every level of the defense has been crushed.
]

So the first major domino didnt fall until the Navy game?

Put simply, the offenses that Notre Dame started the season against just weren't very good. Only Rice has ended up as a top-75 offense. Stanford is 81st in total offense, Syracuse is 112th, Purdue is 113th and Michigan is 117th.

Just as injuries and depth issues began piling up, so did the better offenses. Only Louisville and Northwestern rank outside the top 75 in total offense. They combined to score 74 points against the Irish. Arizona State, Navy, North Carolina, Florida State and USC all average between 452 and 441 yards per game—each in the top 40 of total offense.

We can excuse that USC game since 9 freshman were listed as starters, my whole point was that you never faced any competition when your defense was intact to give a any true direction for this groups future. I don't think they'll be bad, I simply don't think they'll be great. I would consider top 30 as good and top 10 as great.

You can pick your talking point from this site.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

 

[DocAg]

I wouldn't bother responding to dockag...he is just another aggy sock that has been banned many times. aggy schedules east northern polytechnic for their OOC games, so they don't want the UT Notre Dame game to outshine them. Any dirt they can throw on this game , they will do.

No dirt. I love college football, so I'll be tuning into that one. I'm not saying ugly in that it will be a bad game, I'm saying ugly in that most people call defensive battles with little to no offense ugly. Great defenses make average offenses look really bad. I think Texas will have a great defense and so will Notre Dame. I give the edge to Texas in this game. I see Notre Dame being a pretty good team this year with 3-4 losses though. One of them will be to Texas.We have Notre Dame on our schedule as well coming up. In fact there are a lot of good games coming up in the OOC schedule. There are many more great games coming up IN conference as well.

 

[TheDecker]

The games where you say the defense was healthy and reference the low scores is misleading as well...Those teams were extremely poor performers on offense.


They also changed defensive scheme going into 2014.




So the first major domino didnt fall until the Navy game?

Put simply, the offenses that Notre Dame started the season against just weren't very good. Only Rice has ended up as a top-75 offense. Stanford is 81st in total offense, Syracuse is 112th, Purdue is 113th and Michigan is 117th.

Just as injuries and depth issues began piling up, so did the better offenses. Only Louisville and Northwestern rank outside the top 75 in total offense. They combined to score 74 points against the Irish. Arizona State, Navy, North Carolina, Florida State and USC all average between 452 and 441 yards per game—each in the top 40 of total offense.

We can excuse that USC game since 9 freshman were listed as starters, my whole point was that you never faced any competition when your defense was intact to give a any true direction for this groups future. I don't think they'll be bad, I simply don't think they'll be great. I would consider top 30 as good and top 10 as great.

You can pick your talking point from this site.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category10/sort01.html

No, the first major blows were just before the season started

Austin Collinsworth (starting S) -- Injured in pactice leading up to Rice (Week 1)
KaVarie Russell (Starting CB) -- Suspended during Fall Camp
Ishaq Williams (Starter DE) -- Suspended during Fall Camp
Jarrett Grace (Starting MLB) -- Declared unable to play during fall
Tony Springman (Backup DT) -- Torn ACL during Fall Camp


The defense lost those 4 starters early on, but still played well (however, as you point out it was agianst weaker teams)

Joe Schmidt (Starting MLB) -- Broken Ankle against Navy (Week 8)
Cody Riggs (Starting CB) -- Injured against Navy (Week 8)
Daniel Cage (Backup NT) -- Injured against Arizona State (Week 9)
Sheldon Day (Starting DT) -- Injured 1st Quarter against Northwestern (Week 10)
Jarron Jones (Starting NT) -- Broken Foot on 1st play against Louisville (Week 11)

The defense wasn't able to overcome this "2nd Round" of injuries and started to fall apart in Week 8 and beyond. Also, as you note, this co-incided with the increase in quality off offenses





If you're trying to say "ND's defense didn't play well against any decent offenses in 2014, so I don't think they will in 2015 either (Texas)" I would disagree

I would say that the semi-healthy 2014 ND Defense did "decent" against:
Florida State (#35 Offense) -- Allowed 31 Points (3 Points Below Season Average)
LSU (#81 Offense) -- Allowed 21 Points (7 Points Below Season Average)
Stanford (#79 Offense) -- Allowed 14 Points (13 Points Below Season Average)

Those aren't "great" performances, but they're decent. When this defense was somewhat healthy in 2014 it was "defense" and it's going to be have far more players available to it against Texas......plus added growth, experience, and depth......plus year 2 of a system....etc

There is not gaurantee that this defense will be good against Texas (let alone great) but it has the potential to be great and the poor performances late in 2014 don't really impact that (since it quite literally won't be at all the same defense)

 

[TheDecker]

You can see this defense has the POTENTIAL to be great if you just look at the draft projections for the players ove the next 2 darfts

Basically every Junior or Senior in 2015 is projected to be draft in 2016 or 2017....with multiple being 1st Round Projections and several being Top 3 Round Projections

The talent should be there in 2015, and combined with the experience and depth that simply wasn't there in 2014 (plus hopefully health)

 

[TexExSpur]

Forgive me if I don't buy into draft "projections". I don't think they will suck. They'll probably be a top 30-50 defense. Then again, I'm not a big fan of your defensive coordinator.


What did they have, 1 player, a TE, drafted this year in the 7th round? Potential draft picks are all over every team.

 

[TheDecker]

Forgive me if I don't buy into draft "projections". I don't think they will suck. They'll probably be a top 30-50 defense. Then again, I'm not a big fan of your defensive coordinator.


What did they have, 1 player, a TE, drafted this year in the 7th round? Potential draft picks are all over every team.

Yes, that's what was draft...and basically what was projected going into the 2014 season as well

This off-season was very light on losses, due to the HEAVY LOSSES TO THE NFL the year before
1st Round -- Zach Martin (OT/OG)
2nd Round -- Stephon Tuitt (DT/DE)
2nd Round -- Troy Niklas (TE)
3rd Round -- Prince Shembo (DE/OLB)
3rd Round -- Chris Watt (OG)
5th Round -- Bennett Jackson (CB/FS)
6th Round -- TJ Jones (WR)
UDFA -- Dan Fox (ILB)
UDFA -- George Atkinson (RB)

So it's not like ND hasn't been creating good NFL talent under Kelly

 

[TheDecker]

And you're welcome to "not buy into" NFL Projections all you want, but it doesn't make them any different

Widely projected:
1st Roiund (2016) -- Jaylon Smith (LB)
1st/2nd Round (2016) -- KeVarie Russell (CB)
1st-3rd Round (2017) -- Max Redfield (FS)
2nd/3rd Round (2016) -- Sheldon Day (DT/DE)
2nd/3rd Round (2017) -- Cole Luke (CB)
3rd-5th Round (2017) -- Jarron Jones (NT)
4th-6th Round (2016) -- Elijah Shumare (SS)
6th/7th Round (2016) -- Jarrett Grace (ILB)
7th/UFA (2016) -- Mathias Farley

That's a pretty good amount of NFL talent for any defense.
Again, it's not a guarantee that they'll be great (especially since it's just a "projection" at this point) but it still really supports the idea that this defense has GREAT potential when healthy

 

[TexExSpur]

Again. They're not NFL talent until they make it to the leauge. But, whatever works for you. Y'all have good players, bouncing back from a year of injury is likely and they're going into their second year of the new scheme. They'll be alright. I don't think they'll be a top 30 defense.

If that D is on an elite level, Texas will have less than 250 total yards of offense and trouble scoring.

 

[TheDecker]

Again. They're not NFL talent until they make it to the leauge. But, whatever works for you. Y'all have good players, bouncing back from a year of injury is likely and they're going into their second year of the new scheme. They'll be alright. I don't think they'll be a top 30 defense.

If that D is on an elite level, Texas will have less than 250 total yards of offense and trouble scoring.

I disagree. Players that eventually make the NFL are NFL talents before they make it there, sometimes you just can't tell beforehand (though other times you definitely can)

And that's the difference of opinion we have here.
Given the amount of talent ND has on defense, the host of players returning from last season, the addition of MANY players from injury/suspension, the 2nd year in a new scheme, and an offense that's likely to be more focused on the ground game...I do think ND will have a Top30 Defense in 2015

That being said, the potential is there to be much better than Top30...but the proof is also lacking, so the "guarantee" isn't there

It's impossible to say for sure how good the 2015 ND defense will be, but they're a very exciting unit

 

[TexExSpur]

I'm not trying to change your opinion, no reason to rebut everything I post. How often do they even field a top30 D. Quick check and I only found one above 30 since 2007 and that was the 2012 squad that finished 7th in total Defense. We all witnessed what happened to that defense!

 

[TheDecker]

I'm not trying to change your opinion, no reason to rebut everything I post. How often do they even field a top30 D. Quick check and I only found one above 30 since 2007 and that was the 2012 squad that finished 7th in total Defense. We all witnessed what happened to that defense!

You might want to check "scoring defense" which is really the only thing that matters

Run you're "quick check" again and you'll see that last year was the first year under Kelly that ND didn't have a Top30 defense

So the need to rebut you becomes apparent, when present such a slanted view
(ND has consistently been a good (or great) defense under Kelly...with the exception of after the injuries in 2014)

There is a multitude if reasons to believe this defense will be very good
(One that you just pointed out yourself is "History of Defense Under Brian Kelly")

 

[TexExSpur]

Check the link I posted Deck and I go with total D not whatever fits your narrative. There's nothing slanted when you use total D...

 

[TheDecker]

Check the link I posted Deck and I go with total D not whatever fits your narrative. There's nothing slanted when you use total D...

I've checked the link

And despite your random selection of what to go by, I'll continue to point this out:

Points are what matters in football. Not yards or anything else. POINTS!

Because of that the most important stat in defense is POINTS ALLOWED (by far)
Prioritizing any stat over this is pure foolishness bordering on stupidity

Notre Dame was a Top30 Defense in Points Allowed per Game (Scoring Defense) in:
2010
2011
2012 (Top10)
2013

By your own admission Notre Dame has been a "good" or "great" defense every year under Brian Kelly, with the lone excretion being the later part of 2014 when they were RAVAGED by injuries

Trying to ignore NDs consistent Baotou if "good to great" defense under Kelly, the stockpile of talent (according to every analyst/expert), and the massive injuries in 2014 does show that I have an agenda and am twisting the facts to fit it....it would show that's what Kure doing

Again, there is no guarantee that ND will be a great defense in 2015, they need to prove it.
But there are A LOT OF REASONS to think they be a good (possibly great) defense, that are easily backed up by context and facts

It's pretty unlikely Texas will be facing a bad defense in 2015, and they might be facing a great one....we'll see

 

[TexExSpur]

There's nothing random about total D...

That's fine and all, except for when you look at the offenses they played each year. That's why I simply go with the grand scheme of total D...

Your not listening to what you are reading, I said they'll be alright to good.

You paint a much different picture than I see, that's all. I'm not talking Texas up on D because I think they'll be a little above average for us and young and the offense will be improved but nothing to brag about.

Was that 2012 D the best defense he has fielded at Notre Dame?

 

[TheDecker]

Notre dame has played some of the best offenses in the country (Florida State, Arizona State, USC, Oklahoma, etc.)
I don't get what you're referring there?

And it doesn't make any sense that because if the offense ND plays, your suddenly prioritizing yards (total defense) over points (scoring defense)
That makes no sense at all

I'm simply point out that Notre Dame has been a Top30 defense every year under Kelly, until injuries RAVAGED them later in the 2014 season

This will be the most talented defense Kelly has ever had at ND (yes, more talented than 2012)

It's not hard to see why this defense would be projected to be good, possibly great

Again, nothing is a guarantee. This defense has a lot to prove

But your knocks and comments in the Nd defense in this bread haven't made much sense and really aren't reflective f the unit the Texas offense will face

 

[TheDecker]

Also the 2015 ND defense won't be "young but talented"

It should be "talented, as well as very experienced plus deep at most most positions"

There is a lot to be excited about in that side of the ball for ND....and it's the weaker (or less proven) side of the ball for ND in 2015

 

[TheDecker]

If you're looking for an area of the ND team to say "this area was bad in 2014 and looks weak in 2015" you're looking for special teams

Our coverage teams have been average (at best), our return teams have been flat out bad, and we're breaking in freshman at both PK and P

That's the area of the ND team that's most concerning, by far

 

[LonghornSoldier]

Texas beats Notre Dame by 11 in South Bend as JH comes in off the bench and delivers a 500 yard performance combined through land and air... with one of those scores through the air being tossed to - TS at the TE spot as a gimmick play

 

[Longyac]

If the rumors that Chavis was already checked out by the bowl and actually taking Sumlin's call on the sideline before the bowl game then some of these ND fans are putting a lot of faith in a performance against a D that may not have been what they think they were.

 

[TexExSpur]

Irish fans should be confident against Virginia, UMass, Temple, Wake Forest and Boston College. To a lesser extent, Notre Dame will be expected to handle Pittsburgh and Navy.

The question, then, becomes how the Irish fare against Texas, Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC and Stanford. With a ("potentially") stout defense, a good ground game (?) and a first-year quarterback (?) in Malik Zaire, it seems reasonable to slot the Irish in for wins in three of those five games—at least as a starting point.

I'd have them at 10-2 to 9-3. They really only have 5 teams on their schedule that may have a say in the outcome of the game.

If that "potentially" strong defense shows up and they pound the rock on offense, they shouldn't have a problem beating Texas, right?

 

[TheDecker]

Irish fans should be confident against Virginia, UMass, Temple, Wake Forest and Boston College. To a lesser extent, Notre Dame will be expected to handle Pittsburgh and Navy.

The question, then, becomes how the Irish fare against Texas, Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC and Stanford. With a ("potentially") stout defense, a good ground game (?) and a first-year quarterback (?) in Malik Zaire, it seems reasonable to slot the Irish in for wins in three of those five games—at least as a starting point.

I'd have them at 10-2 to 9-3. They really only have 5 teams on their schedule that may have a say in the outcome of the game.

If that "potentially" strong defense shows up and they pound the rock on offense, they shouldn't have a problem beating Texas, right?

I'd have the Irish at 10-2, with 11-1 and 9-3 being equally possible (personally)

You can phrase it as a "potentially strong ground game" but with an OL that's verteran, experienced, and talented and expected to be Top5 in CFB, plus a veteran RB, plus a true dual-threat QB who has already proven he can run.......hard to see the ground game not being effective

Combine that with a 1,100+ Yard 15TD WR (as a Soph) and 3 more 500+ yard recievers, and some of the top TE recruits in CFB....and the passing game should have dynamic as well

It's hard to see the ND offense being anything but very effective, unless Zaire's play completely sinks the unit........which he hasn't shown any hint of so far

 

[TheDecker]

If the rumors that Chavis was already checked out by the bowl and actually taking Sumlin's call on the sideline before the bowl game then some of these ND fans are putting a lot of faith in a performance against a D that may not have been what they think they were.

LSU averaged 13 points allowed (per game) in the 5 games prior to playing ND
That would have made the #1 Scoring Defense in CFB by a WIDE MARGIN, if that was the season long stat (as is they were #4)

It's hard to imagine that a team went from playing defense at the #1 in CFB level to "Not that Good" in the matter of a few weeks

I've never even said that LSU was the best defense in CFB, but it seems obvious to me that they were very good

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Notre Dame is still slow and Texas is fast. I have not seen anything that makes me believe they can stop a spread offense. Are they better than Texas, probably, but I'd love to see this game in November. Texas would stomp a mud hole in Notre Dame come November.

Next season is our year, not this year, but you can bet by the end of the year Texas will not be the same team Notre Dame will face.

 

[LonghornSoldier]

can the season start already? this board SUCKS in the offseason and i am flat out bored of the same old recycled garbage we go through every year during these down times....

 

[TexExSpur]

can the season start already? this board SUCKS in the offseason and i am flat out bored of the same old recycled garbage we go through every year during these down times....

39 days brotha, but it will start getting noisy in 12 days...

 

[TheDecker]

Notre Dame is still slow

Very, very inaccurate

This will likely be the fastest and most athletic ND team in over a decade and one of the more athletic teams in all of CFB

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Very, very inaccurate

This will likely be the fastest and most athletic ND team in over a decade and one of the more athletic teams in all of CFB

They are big, they are strong, they ain't fast. At lease not fast like teams from the south. You will see speed when you see Texas. Our DTs more like DEs. Our DE move like linebackers. Our linebackers move like DBs. Our DBs are fast as greased lightning.

Texas won't even recruit you if you aren't fast as shit.

Doesn't really matter, I still think ND wins because they are the more experienced team and will own the trenches. But don't be fooled, your team ain't fast.

 

[RoboCocks21]

Just wait they haven't met Malik yet and only a freshman! 215 coming in now 240! He will light someone up and it will be felt through the stadium and in your living room!

 

[Metcalf #2]

Hey Decker does Randy Kinder still have a headache? Lol

 

[TheDecker]

They are big, they are strong, they ain't fast. At lease not fast like teams from the south. You will see speed when you see Texas. Our DTs more like DEs. Our DE move like linebackers. Our linebackers move like DBs. Our DBs are fast as greased lightning.

Texas won't even recruit you if you aren't fast as shit.

Doesn't really matter, I still think ND wins because they are the more experienced team and will own the trenches. But don't be fooled, your team ain't fast.

If you actually look into it, you'd be VERY HARD PRESSED to find a SLB, CB, CB, NB, FS, SS combo than ND's

SLB - Jaylon Smith
CB - KeiVarie Russell
CB - Cole Luke
NB - Nick Watkins
FS - Max Redfield
SS - Elijah Shumate

It's worth while to note that basically all of those guys had Texas offers and are projected to be NFL Draft picks

This is the fastest back-end defense ND has had in 15+ years. It's flat out fast!!

You're right though, the trenches for ND are built primary on size, strength, and experience rather than in speed (for the most part)