Professional Wrestlers
- Thread starter Leonidas05
- Start date
- Status
In the late 80s Kerry Von Erich and the boys wrestled in Fort Stockton. My 16 yr old second cousin ran away with them when they left town. she was a crazy bird.
My Dad used to take me to the Fair Ground in Amarillo to see the matches. My most vivid memory is of Abdullah the Butcher and the Sheik going after each other through the whole building. Throwing chairs, people were scattering. An old man sitting in frony of me actually had a heart attack!! EMS revived him and he got up and walked out!
What a night for an 11 year old!
What a night for an 11 year old!
I always thought Goldberg would take a year off and come back due to the $$ surprised he has stayed retired. Must have saved some of it. I know he was making a killing in WCW and got paid for awhile for doing nothing until he signed with WWE. Heard he could be a dickhead in the back and took his character too seriously. Heard that Chris Jericko and him got into it one night in the back and Jericko took him down.
Was wondering what Randy Orton is really like as seems a little off..
Was wondering what Randy Orton is really like as seems a little off..
Piper, Snake, and Hogan were a little before my time.
I think Hart knew something was fishy, but he really did trust Earl Hebner. Now you have to understand that Earl was the everyone's best friend type at this point. And he and Hart were tight. The whole affair was really messy. Talking to guys who were around then (although the topic was taboo backstage, but after you get a few drinks in the guys they loosen up), and talking to the stage manger that night (who was still with the company) the crew knew nothing. McMahan, Rob Remus, Briscoe, Patterson, Cornette, Michaels, and Paul were the only ones that knew. Hebner did not know what was up when the match started. Leon White (who had been screwed several times in Japan) got wind something was up (probably from Briscoe who had a big mouth) and tried to warn Hart, but that is how tight his friendship was with Hebner. Hebner was told what was going to happen about 10 minutes before the match started.
The script was for the ref to get knocked out, Hart to get put in the sharpshooter, then Hart would reverse it, Michaels would submit, Hart would go to wake up the ref, then Sweet Chin Music, Michaels makes the pin, the Hart Foundation does a run in with another ref who starts the count, Davey and Owen break up the pin, then 5 minutes of brawling and a DQ.
Now, have you ever heard the saying "there are three sides to every story, your side, their side, and the truth"? Well that applies here.
I was never able to have a good conversation with any directly involved. But the feeling in the locker room it was something like this.
The WWF was facing some hard financial times at this point. They had to cut obligations, and they thought Hart was on the way out. So they wanted Hart to leave and go to WCW. But McMahan was scared of a repeat of the incident with the WWF Womens Title plus he wanted Michaels to go over, since he would be carrying the company for a while. In addition Hart wanted to protect his image after what WWF did to guys like Nash and Hall.
Well you also have to know about Michaels and Hart. It is well known that Michaels was supposed to get into a feud with Hart and job to him at Wrestlemania 13. But Michaels faked an injury and chose to forfeit the title on Monday Night RAW instead (but also note that Michaels had jobbed to Bret in the past). But what a lot of people don't know is that Michaels was quite the hothead (this continued even into his DX days) and he and Bret had gotten into multiple fist fights back stage (Michaels had a way of pushing people's buttons and Bret didn't like to be pushed. But as I understand it, there might have been some traction to Michaels assertion that Hart was having an affair with his valet.
Hart did not want to lose the title at a PPV in Canada. The general consensus is that Hart would indeed job to Michaels or hand over the title, but just at Survivor Series.
Now, if you know Vince, he just doesn't trust anyone. Period. This would not sit well with him.
I believe Patterson was doing the booking at that point. The stage manager said that everyone had the script that they had agreed on. Hart and Michaels hardly said a word to each other backstage (very unusual) and everything was really tense. The company had extra "security" around the ring, but, contrary to popular belief they were not to protect Michaels from Hart (Michaels could handle himself if Bret attacked him) but to protect Michaels in case he got jumped during the in crowd brawl.
When Michaels entered the ring he did a number on the Canadian flag. Now, it is true that he was encouraged to warm up the crowd, but it is also true that Michaels probably went a little overboard (he would really get into things like that, especially things that got under Brets skin, which although he knew it was all a show defacing the flag still got to Bret whether he admitted it or not).
Vice made it to ringside by this point and told them stage manager what was about to happen. The stage manager was shocked, but you don't say no to the boss so he told Hebner to get up and call the match when the Sharpshooter was on. Hebner didn't move. The backstage SM heard the ringside SM and there was all sorts of yelling over the coms as things got very confused. The backstage SM didn't know if they were supposed to send Chioda, Davey, and Owen or not (the backstage SM was never told). Patterson who was backstage with them, pretended that he didn't know (Patterson would not have survived a pummeling from Davey and Owen if they reacted badly). It was chaos. But Hebner always had a great sense of timing. In one swift motion he jumped up yelled "ring the bell" and then jumped out of the ring and ran for the hills. Vince told the stage manager to wrap it up, and when they didn't react fast enough he grabbed the bell boy and yelled at him to ring the bell. As the Stage Manager remembers it, Hebner was already out of the ring on the way to the back before the bell even rang. McMahan then slaps the ring announcer on the shoulder and yells at Michaels to grab the belt and get the hell out while the Stage Manager is desperately trying to get the right sound track from the audio guy (they had Brets music cued up since he was the last in and was supposed to retain the belt) who is freaking trying to get Michael's music out. The backstage manager is trying to hold Owen and Davey back and is fighting a losing battle. Patterson tries to step in, but basically gets over run by the two of them.
At this point the crew is fearing for their lives. The fans are irate and Bret starts destroying equipment. The destruction continued backstage. He knocked over cameras (that had been set up for promos), broke monitors, threatened everyone associated with WWF. He accused the stage managers of being in on it and threatened them, he was going to kill Hebner, it was out of control. When Hart finally got himself under control he had a screaming match with Michaels who claimed not to know anything. No one knows what was said in that conversation but for the moment Bret seemed appeased, or at least a bit more calm about it. Mark Calloway and Leon White tried to beat down the door to the conference room where McMahan, Briscoe, and others were hiding. Well, not really knock it down, but they knocked very loudly on it. Probably about 30 minutes later everything had calmed down a bit backstage and Vince went to talk to Bret. Bret of course punched him in the face and he tripped over Briscoe (who was scared to death of Bret) and twisted his ankle and when Shane and Patterson tried to defend him, Bret went into a tirade at each of them and threatened to knock them out too. Some say this is what led to McMahans steroid use and constant work outs as he spent the rest of his career afraid of wrestlers backstage.
Michaels and Paul also had things thrown at them and where mocked as they left the arena. Hebner and Michaels said that they were afraid to stay in their originally booked hotels for fear that fans would figure out where they were.
McMahan had to do major damage control afterwards and it led to Rick Rude appearing on both RAW and NITRO on November 17.
Mike
I think Hart knew something was fishy, but he really did trust Earl Hebner. Now you have to understand that Earl was the everyone's best friend type at this point. And he and Hart were tight. The whole affair was really messy. Talking to guys who were around then (although the topic was taboo backstage, but after you get a few drinks in the guys they loosen up), and talking to the stage manger that night (who was still with the company) the crew knew nothing. McMahan, Rob Remus, Briscoe, Patterson, Cornette, Michaels, and Paul were the only ones that knew. Hebner did not know what was up when the match started. Leon White (who had been screwed several times in Japan) got wind something was up (probably from Briscoe who had a big mouth) and tried to warn Hart, but that is how tight his friendship was with Hebner. Hebner was told what was going to happen about 10 minutes before the match started.
The script was for the ref to get knocked out, Hart to get put in the sharpshooter, then Hart would reverse it, Michaels would submit, Hart would go to wake up the ref, then Sweet Chin Music, Michaels makes the pin, the Hart Foundation does a run in with another ref who starts the count, Davey and Owen break up the pin, then 5 minutes of brawling and a DQ.
Now, have you ever heard the saying "there are three sides to every story, your side, their side, and the truth"? Well that applies here.
I was never able to have a good conversation with any directly involved. But the feeling in the locker room it was something like this.
The WWF was facing some hard financial times at this point. They had to cut obligations, and they thought Hart was on the way out. So they wanted Hart to leave and go to WCW. But McMahan was scared of a repeat of the incident with the WWF Womens Title plus he wanted Michaels to go over, since he would be carrying the company for a while. In addition Hart wanted to protect his image after what WWF did to guys like Nash and Hall.
Well you also have to know about Michaels and Hart. It is well known that Michaels was supposed to get into a feud with Hart and job to him at Wrestlemania 13. But Michaels faked an injury and chose to forfeit the title on Monday Night RAW instead (but also note that Michaels had jobbed to Bret in the past). But what a lot of people don't know is that Michaels was quite the hothead (this continued even into his DX days) and he and Bret had gotten into multiple fist fights back stage (Michaels had a way of pushing people's buttons and Bret didn't like to be pushed. But as I understand it, there might have been some traction to Michaels assertion that Hart was having an affair with his valet.
Hart did not want to lose the title at a PPV in Canada. The general consensus is that Hart would indeed job to Michaels or hand over the title, but just at Survivor Series.
Now, if you know Vince, he just doesn't trust anyone. Period. This would not sit well with him.
I believe Patterson was doing the booking at that point. The stage manager said that everyone had the script that they had agreed on. Hart and Michaels hardly said a word to each other backstage (very unusual) and everything was really tense. The company had extra "security" around the ring, but, contrary to popular belief they were not to protect Michaels from Hart (Michaels could handle himself if Bret attacked him) but to protect Michaels in case he got jumped during the in crowd brawl.
When Michaels entered the ring he did a number on the Canadian flag. Now, it is true that he was encouraged to warm up the crowd, but it is also true that Michaels probably went a little overboard (he would really get into things like that, especially things that got under Brets skin, which although he knew it was all a show defacing the flag still got to Bret whether he admitted it or not).
Vice made it to ringside by this point and told them stage manager what was about to happen. The stage manager was shocked, but you don't say no to the boss so he told Hebner to get up and call the match when the Sharpshooter was on. Hebner didn't move. The backstage SM heard the ringside SM and there was all sorts of yelling over the coms as things got very confused. The backstage SM didn't know if they were supposed to send Chioda, Davey, and Owen or not (the backstage SM was never told). Patterson who was backstage with them, pretended that he didn't know (Patterson would not have survived a pummeling from Davey and Owen if they reacted badly). It was chaos. But Hebner always had a great sense of timing. In one swift motion he jumped up yelled "ring the bell" and then jumped out of the ring and ran for the hills. Vince told the stage manager to wrap it up, and when they didn't react fast enough he grabbed the bell boy and yelled at him to ring the bell. As the Stage Manager remembers it, Hebner was already out of the ring on the way to the back before the bell even rang. McMahan then slaps the ring announcer on the shoulder and yells at Michaels to grab the belt and get the hell out while the Stage Manager is desperately trying to get the right sound track from the audio guy (they had Brets music cued up since he was the last in and was supposed to retain the belt) who is freaking trying to get Michael's music out. The backstage manager is trying to hold Owen and Davey back and is fighting a losing battle. Patterson tries to step in, but basically gets over run by the two of them.
At this point the crew is fearing for their lives. The fans are irate and Bret starts destroying equipment. The destruction continued backstage. He knocked over cameras (that had been set up for promos), broke monitors, threatened everyone associated with WWF. He accused the stage managers of being in on it and threatened them, he was going to kill Hebner, it was out of control. When Hart finally got himself under control he had a screaming match with Michaels who claimed not to know anything. No one knows what was said in that conversation but for the moment Bret seemed appeased, or at least a bit more calm about it. Mark Calloway and Leon White tried to beat down the door to the conference room where McMahan, Briscoe, and others were hiding. Well, not really knock it down, but they knocked very loudly on it. Probably about 30 minutes later everything had calmed down a bit backstage and Vince went to talk to Bret. Bret of course punched him in the face and he tripped over Briscoe (who was scared to death of Bret) and twisted his ankle and when Shane and Patterson tried to defend him, Bret went into a tirade at each of them and threatened to knock them out too. Some say this is what led to McMahans steroid use and constant work outs as he spent the rest of his career afraid of wrestlers backstage.
Michaels and Paul also had things thrown at them and where mocked as they left the arena. Hebner and Michaels said that they were afraid to stay in their originally booked hotels for fear that fans would figure out where they were.
McMahan had to do major damage control afterwards and it led to Rick Rude appearing on both RAW and NITRO on November 17.
Mike
I would be shcoked if Jericho "took down" Goldberg. Jericho was a scrappy guy, but not in the same league as Goldberg. Yeah, Goldberg invested his wrestling and football money very well. I dunno about him being mean. He was nice as anyone to the crew, and I heard he was a great guy in the locker room. But he was a company man. Didn't like people badmouthing the boss or stuff like that. You toed the line around him.
Orton was after my time.
Mike
Was Hogan not well liked by his management or peers? The reason I ask, is I recently watched a WWE production on Netflix instant view. It was "The top 50 wrestlers All Time" or somesuch. The host explained the wrestlers were voted on by current WWE personnel. He explained the criteria was based on charisma, skill, popularity, importance to the sport, etc... I assumed Hogan would be top 5 according to those criteria, but they had him ranked 23rd, which I thought was ridiculous.
Edit: Just found the list. They have Piper and Macho Man ahead of him? Piper and Macho don't reach the level they reached without Hogan - no way. And Edge????
The DVD's complete 1 to 50 ranking is as follows:
1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Steve Austin
4. Bret Hart
5. The Rock
6. Harley Race
7. Ricky Steamboat
8. Andre the Giant
9. Rey Mysterio
10. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
11. Eddie Guerrero
12. Triple H
13. Gorgeous George
14. "Macho Man" Randy Savage
15. "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig
16. John Cena
17. Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair (tied)
19. Edge
20. Jerry "The King" Lawler
21. Lou Thesz
22. Terry Funk
23. Hulk Hogan
24. Bruno Sammartino
25. Chris Jericho
26. Ted DiBiase
27. Fabulous Moolah
28. Classy Freddie Blassie
29. Randy Orton
30. Pat Patterson
31. The Iron Sheik
32. Jimmy Snuka
33. Mick Foley
34. Kurt Angle
35. Buddy Rogers
36. Gorilla Monsoon
37. Junkyard Dog
38. "Superstar" Billy Graham
39. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
40. Big Show
41. Jack Brisco
42. Sgt. Slaughter
43. Kane
44. Nick Bockwinkel
45. Jeff Hardy
46. Dory Funk Jr.
47. Bob Backlund
48. Rick Rude
49. Batista
50. Killer Kowalski
Edit: Just found the list. They have Piper and Macho Man ahead of him? Piper and Macho don't reach the level they reached without Hogan - no way. And Edge????
The DVD's complete 1 to 50 ranking is as follows:
1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Steve Austin
4. Bret Hart
5. The Rock
6. Harley Race
7. Ricky Steamboat
8. Andre the Giant
9. Rey Mysterio
10. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
11. Eddie Guerrero
12. Triple H
13. Gorgeous George
14. "Macho Man" Randy Savage
15. "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig
16. John Cena
17. Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair (tied)
19. Edge
20. Jerry "The King" Lawler
21. Lou Thesz
22. Terry Funk
23. Hulk Hogan
24. Bruno Sammartino
25. Chris Jericho
26. Ted DiBiase
27. Fabulous Moolah
28. Classy Freddie Blassie
29. Randy Orton
30. Pat Patterson
31. The Iron Sheik
32. Jimmy Snuka
33. Mick Foley
34. Kurt Angle
35. Buddy Rogers
36. Gorilla Monsoon
37. Junkyard Dog
38. "Superstar" Billy Graham
39. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
40. Big Show
41. Jack Brisco
42. Sgt. Slaughter
43. Kane
44. Nick Bockwinkel
45. Jeff Hardy
46. Dory Funk Jr.
47. Bob Backlund
48. Rick Rude
49. Batista
50. Killer Kowalski
+1. I don't think y2j would be able to do it. Goldberg has taken some mma stuff I think. I read somewhere (probably bs) that bradshaw and Goldberg got into it at a bar and Bill backed down.
The Goldberg-Jericho incident was Nash's dirtywork. They were setting up a feud between Goldberg and Y2J. Goldberg told Nash in confidence that he didn't think their styles would mesh well because Jericho was a "different" kind of worker.
Nash went to Jericho and told him that Goldberg said that Jericho wasn't a very good worker.
Jericho confronted Goldberg, slapped him (it always begins with a slap). When Goldberg went for him, Jericho guillotined him and shut him down. It was broken up before anything came of it. Jericho and Goldberg made peace and had a beer.
Hart was especially mad with Michaels over the infamous "Sunny Days" crack. Michaels had just broken up with Tammy Sytch, and he had head with Hart, so to complicate bother their lives, he hinted on a live promo that Tammy and Hart were fooling around. It caused some serious, serious trouble for Hart with his wife, and made some mega heat for Sytch with management.
Cg
Nash went to Jericho and told him that Goldberg said that Jericho wasn't a very good worker.
Jericho confronted Goldberg, slapped him (it always begins with a slap). When Goldberg went for him, Jericho guillotined him and shut him down. It was broken up before anything came of it. Jericho and Goldberg made peace and had a beer.
Hart was especially mad with Michaels over the infamous "Sunny Days" crack. Michaels had just broken up with Tammy Sytch, and he had head with Hart, so to complicate bother their lives, he hinted on a live promo that Tammy and Hart were fooling around. It caused some serious, serious trouble for Hart with his wife, and made some mega heat for Sytch with management.
Cg
wow so Jericho shut Goldberg down? Well, anything can happen I guess.
Also surprised that Michaels wasn't scared of Bret and could hold his own.
Also surprised that Michaels wasn't scared of Bret and could hold his own.
Bill didn't have any MMA experience at that point. But the guys respected him. He was huge and he had played football. No one knew exactly what he was capable of, but no one wanted to test him. Plus he was so laid back. He was a 180 from his on screen persona. He didn't have a very good work rate in the ring, but he wasn't asked to do a whole lot either. However, when he was things usually went wrong. He suffered a huge cut on his arm that required surgery during a filming. He also injured Bret Hart and ended his career. But part of it was that he went all out in the ring. He didn't know how to do things half way. But he was very professional. He would take direction on promos and do things like thanking the crew after a taping. He would always look you in the eye, shake your hand, and give you attention no matter how low of a peon you were.
He also LOVED animals. I remember one night at a RAW taping (towards the end of my tenure) he brought in a cardboard box with 3 kittens in it and he was visibly upset. We asked what was up, and he said he found the kittens behind the arena under a dumpster, their mother was dead. He had someone (I forget who, might have been Dwayne) hold the kittens while he took a camera bag and put the mother in it and had a stage hand take it to a 24 hour pet hospital to be cremated. We asked what about the kittens and he told one of the production guys to watch them until he got back and then he would take them with him. He petted them until he had to get ready and then he left them in a conference room, covered with his suit coat, and as soon as he came back (I think he was only doing a run in) he checked on them, changed, packed up, and took them with him. As I remember he said the next taping that he found all three homes the next day.
He was also a sharp dresser when he was not in the gym as I remember.
Mike
See, I heard from guys backstage at that time, that Michaels might not have been completely lying. Of course there was no proof and you know how those things can spiral out of control.
That is interesting to hear about Bill. By the time he got to WWF he never really said much of anything about anyone. He was kind of everyone's friend. But that is an interesting story. I would have taken Bill in that fight. I mean Chris could hold his own in a real fight, but to shut him down? Impressive.
Bill, as I understand it, didn't have much room to talk about people's work rates. Bill was a good worker but always just a little too close to out of control from what I was told.
Jericho has always been more of an acrobat than most wrestlers his size are. No one in the WWF locker room every really complained about Chris. Although the locker room was quite shocked as I understand it when Chris was chosen to be the first ever Undisputed Heavyweight Champion. I mean everyone knew he was on the way up, but as I understand it, it was a little shocking. Did you ever hear anything about hat Caldonna?
Nash was always a troublemaker. Like the girl in school who went around spreading rumors so no one would like anyone else and would only like her.
Mike
Well, as the story goes, told by Briscoe, Michaels told Vince he could handle Bret, but Vince would have to get him out of the arena if anything happened. Who knows if he actually could have (he got out of the ring QUICK and in their backstage scraps Bret usually got the better of Michaels), but Michaels was confident he could have and Vince believed him.
I am as shocked as you that Jericho shut him down. I am also shocked that Bill slapped him. Chris must have said something about his mother.
Mike
I'm a big fan of Goldberg's. Reading these stories about him just makes me like the guy more. He always seemed really nice and cool on all of his interviews unless he was talking about Russo.
What do you mean was? He still is! Now that he's the head writer for TNA, that company has hit the fan. It doesn't help that Hogan and Bichoff are there too. The 3 of them together is bad.
If I remember correctly, WCW Monday Nitro beat WWF Monday Night Raw in the ratings for something like 88 straight weeks. Russo was in the WWF at that time, I think. I could be wrong. When Russo left the WWF for WCW in 2000-2001 the WCW product became absolutely horrific. Watching TNA now is like watching WCW from 2001 on replay over and over again. It's that bad.
TNA has some big names from the 90's in Hogan, Bichoff, RVD, Sting, Nash was there until January(now he's back with the WWE, not wrestling), Booker T was there for a while(also back with WWE as an announcer), Scott Hall was there for about a month about 2 years ago(Sad story he is), Sean Waltman/Syxx/X-Pac was there for a few months(TNA tried to reform the nWo as "The Band" which failed miserably), Kurt Angle is there and is doing well, Scott and Rick Steiner on occasion, Christian for a few years(now back with WWE and was recently World Heavyweight Champion for a whole 2 days). I think that's about it really. I could be missing a few.
Russo was a genius when he had a strong filter. Without that filter he is a tool. He has 30 crap ideas for every stroke of genius. He has no internal filter so without an external one he just kills everything he touches.
Plus we didn't like him on the production side because he would literally change match outcomes during the match. He would add run outs, he would go grab guys from the locker room and tell them to go to a run in without telling anyone else.
Mike
This post was edited on 5/12 2:34 PM by Esoteric2112
I don't remember exactly, but by the time Russo came to wcw, wcw was way behind. The nwo is what helped wcw overtake and dominate, but something happened, not sure what it was, but it was a show, maybe SCSA related and the wwf took over. I think wcw was leading even when Bret came over, so it looked bleak for the wwe, especially with hbk flashing the wolfpack sign. Ah, the tide turning, I think had something to do with Sixx Pac going back to wwe.
Winner. I think the bottom line here is that Russo sucks. Now that he's working with Terry "Hulk" Hogan and Eric Bichoff, things can only suck, and they do. There is a reason why less than 1 million people watch TNA every week. That, and they have so many older guys clinging to the spotlight instead of showcasing the younger, X-Division(cruiserweights) guys.
TNA has some really good talent to work with. AJ Styles may be the best active wrestler out there. Kazarian is great too. Samoa Joe is awesome.
I know Terry Funk. One of my best friends that I grew up with in the Panhandle married his daughter. I was in the wedding in Canyon. My buddy was my roommate back in the mid-90's in Dallas. Terry and his wife and other daughter would come out and party with us. He's cool as hell. They were filming a documentary on wrestlers called "Up against the mat" or something like that during my buddie's wedding. Filmed us taking shots while getting dressed at the church. The bride's dad...Terry...was the one who brought the booze. He was still wrestling some in Japan just a few years ago even though his knees are trashed and he's getting long in the tooth.
Samoa Joe annoyed me. Actually, I haven't watched wrestling consistently in a looooonggg time, but tna seemed to be getting away from what was making them entertainin.
- Status
Similar threads
