Which (mid major) would add the most value to a (expanded) B12?

[HornosaurusRex]

I think the B12 was hoping to sneak in both TCU and Baylor (or any other top two teams in another year) by avoiding the playoff that would all but guarantee that one would be knocked out. It might have worked except for the Buckeye's 59-0 total domination of Whiskey in the big10 championship game, and FSU holding on for the win against GTech.

I think Texas or OU gets the nod under similar circumstances. A championship game has merit, but also has potential disadvantages when it comes to the playoffs.

Agree that a six or eight game playoff would somewhat moot the issue, as a lower seeding is less of a penalty than being left out altogether, and getting two teams in might be favored without a championship game.

Hook 'em

 

[Heisennberg]

I don't think you can survive a speed bump later on down the road, late loss, good luck climbing back in, CCG loss, you're out. Early losses have always been the easier recovery. It's not like tOSU lost late in the year. There are five top conferences and in some years, two could easily be left out with this current format.

Generally speaking sure its better to lose early but the committee has also said that they operate on a clean slate every week in terms of 1-4, as in they re-rank the top 4 every week. So the timing of the loss does not necessarily mean as much who you lost to and how you lost. That's the great thing about this format, the voters sit in a room and actually discuss and argue the merits of wins and losses in person instead of just combining the average placement on a bunch of ballots made by people who never debate amongst eachother.

But on the same token, how many times has a CCG between a contender and a non contender ruin the contender's championship hopes? that's the problem that the big 12 wants to avoid right? I mean in the big 12 history alone 1 time, when OU lost and they ended up in the championship game anyway. It's pretty rare when the CCG will hurt the conference's chances of a national champion. I would also point out that the CCG has benefited all the other P5 champions. They seem to be doing fine.

 

[jsto60]

Then go 12-0... I think it should have started as an 8 team playoff. It will get there.

Totally agree with the first part. Win the games and you remove all doubt. Lose some and you turn it in to an argument.

As for the second part, I wanted 8 too. But I heard quite a few big wigs weigh in recently and they said its not being expanded to 8 any time in the next decade.

 

[TexExSpur]

Generally speaking sure its better to lose early but the committee has also said that they operate on a clean slate every week in terms of 1-4, as in they re-rank the top 4 every week. So the timing of the loss does not necessarily mean as much who you lost to and how you lost. That's the great thing about this format, the voters sit in a room and actually discuss and argue the merits of wins and losses in person instead of just combining the average placement on a bunch of ballots made by people who never debate amongst eachother.

But on the same token, how many times has a CCG between a contender and a non contender ruin the contender's championship hopes? that's the problem that the big 12 wants to avoid right? I mean in the big 12 history alone 1 time, when OU lost and they ended up in the championship game anyway. It's pretty rare when the CCG will hurt the conference's chances of a national champion. I would also point out that the CCG has benefited all the other P5 champions. They seem to be doing fine.

That's all hypothetical thought based on how 2014 went down. None of the 1 loss teams lost late in the year except for Baylor, 7th game into the season. None of them lost a game after that and most had their one loss several weeks before that with the exception being TCU the week before (their 5th game into the season). Good luck being considered with a loss after that....

If TCU and Baylor are undefeated going into the final game of 2015, one of them stands a better chance of getting in than the other. It's TCU's last game while Baylor has to play Texas to end the year.

 

[Heisennberg]

That's all hypothetical thought based on how 2014 went down. None of the 1 loss teams lost late in the year except for Baylor, 7th game into the season. None of them lost a game after that and most had their one loss several weeks before that with the exception being TCU the week before. Good luck being considered with a loss after that....

TCU lost early and it didnt help them. It got them to #3 going into the final week, then not even a 52 point victory was enough to keep them in the top 4. Why? ohio state had a 13th game and an extra victory. On the other end, Baylor did lose late, but you know, they ended up #5 and a CCG victory would have been more than enough to get in. But their pathetic OOC would have hurt them in comparison. But I honestly believe who you lose to is more important. What if your one loss was late but to a top 3 team by a field goal? The other teams lost early but were routed at home by an unranked team? You dont think the committee members wont be debating the merits of those losses? It's extremely plausible. I just want to be on an even playing field, and maybe deregulation will do that.

 

[TexExSpur]

TCU lost early and it didnt help them. It got them to #3 going into the final week, then not even a 52 point victory was enough to keep them in the top 4. Why? ohio state had a 13th game and an extra victory. On the other end, Baylor did lose late, but you know, they ended up #5 and a CCG victory would have been more than enough to get in. But their pathetic OOC would have hurt them in comparison. But I honestly believe who you lose to is more important. What if your one loss was late but to a top 3 team by a field goal? The other teams lost early but were routed at home by an unranked team? You dont think the committee members wont be debating the merits of those losses? It's extremely plausible. I just want to be on an even playing field, and maybe deregulation will do that.

tOSU 2nd game of the year lost to VaTech, hell yeah the CCG catapulted them into the fourth spot. Baylor goes down at WVU bad losses. Bama lost to Ole Miss and Oregon lost to Arizona.

Only one spot was up for debate and it was up to tOSU, BU and TCU.... So yes, in 2014 a CCG for the Big 12 might have helped....maybe.

 

[streettopeschel]

Generally speaking sure its better to lose early but the committee has also said that they operate on a clean slate every week in terms of 1-4, as in they re-rank the top 4 every week. So the timing of the loss does not necessarily mean as much who you lost to and how you lost. That's the great thing about this format, the voters sit in a room and actually discuss and argue the merits of wins and losses in person instead of just combining the average placement on a bunch of ballots made by people who never debate amongst eachother.

But on the same token, how many times has a CCG between a contender and a non contender ruin the contender's championship hopes? that's the problem that the big 12 wants to avoid right? I mean in the big 12 history alone 1 time, when OU lost and they ended up in the championship game anyway. It's pretty rare when the CCG will hurt the conference's chances of a national champion. I would also point out that the CCG has benefited all the other P5 champions. They seem to be doing fine.

Texas ruined NUs NC chances in 96. CU ruined ours in 01. NU was one second and a 46/yard FG from ruining Texas in 09.

The point is CCG can giveth and taketh.

 

[Heisennberg]

It giveth and taketh, and at this point it would giveth. If youre good enough to win it all, then a CCG against a likely inferior team shouldnt be a problem. Come on I dont want to bring a knife to a gun fight. All the other conferences have one and unless one of them loses a CCG it will only serve to benefit. Maybe we'll get lucky and one will lose but i'd rather be in the driver's seat.

 

[topdecktiger]

TCU lost early and it didnt help them. It got them to #3 going into the final week, then not even a 52 point victory was enough to keep them in the top 4. Why? ohio state had a 13th game and an extra victory. On the other end, Baylor did lose late, but you know, they ended up #5 and a CCG victory would have been more than enough to get in. But their pathetic OOC would have hurt them in comparison. But I honestly believe who you lose to is more important. What if your one loss was late but to a top 3 team by a field goal? The other teams lost early but were routed at home by an unranked team? You dont think the committee members wont be debating the merits of those losses? It's extremely plausible. I just want to be on an even playing field, and maybe deregulation will do that.

The 13th game played some part in it, not all. The committee specifically said it gives extra consideration for a conference champion. TCU and Baylor were co-champs, while everyone else was an outright champion. The 13th game was also significant because each champion beat a ranked team. That gave Florida St, Oregon, and Ohio St 3 wins over teams that finished ranked, whereas TCU and Baylor only had 2 each. (Alabama had 5.) The other thing is that SOS is only calculated week-to-week. Florida St, Oregon, Ohio St and Alabama all played ranked teams in the CCG, so their SOS went up. TCU played 2-10 Iowa St, so Iowa St brought down TCU's SOS. Baylor, by contrast, played Kansas St, so their SOS went up. (Although it was still lower than the other teams' SOS.) The metrics simply didn't favor TCU and Baylor. The lack of a CCG played some part in that, although that's not the entire reason.

 

[Heisennberg]

The 13th game played some part in it, not all. The committee specifically said it gives extra consideration for a conference champion. TCU and Baylor were co-champs, while everyone else was an outright champion. The 13th game was also significant because each champion beat a ranked team. That gave Florida St, Oregon, and Ohio St 3 wins over teams that finished ranked, whereas TCU and Baylor only had 2 each. (Alabama had 5.) The other thing is that SOS is only calculated week-to-week. Florida St, Oregon, Ohio St and Alabama all played ranked teams in the CCG, so their SOS went up. TCU played 2-10 Iowa St, so Iowa St brought down TCU's SOS. Baylor, by contrast, played Kansas St, so their SOS went up. (Although it was still lower than the other teams' SOS.) The metrics simply didn't favor TCU and Baylor. The lack of a CCG played some part in that, although that's not the entire reason.

I think it played the biggest part, and I am just using the comments made by committee members, as well as comments made by Bowlsby. Committee Chairman said 13 data points are better than 12.

"What we heard is if we don't go to a championship game we're at a disadvantage,” Bowlsby said. “All things being equal, 13 games are better than 12 games. That's what we heard. So that gives us clear enough direction that we're coming in at least at a modest disadvantage. We need to do whatever we can to mitigate that.”

For some reason Bowlsby is under the impression the 13th game was a significant factor. No comments of his have I heard anything relating to the schedule or SOS by baylor or tcu being an issue, it was the 13th game against a quality opponent that did it for them. Sure there are other mitigating factors, but in the end when they are trying to compare the merits of a 11-1 team getting in over a 12-1 team, it's hard to argue for it unless you got lucky and you have some marquee wins in there. Keeping in mind its humans, not computers or rankings or polls that are putting teams in the playoff. So splitting hairs on things like SOS arent as significant as they used to be.. I hope it all gets worked out, but from the Big 12 standpoint, they are not in the driver's seat, they need help.

 

[TexExSpur]

I thought it was Boren pushing for 12 teams and a title game....

 

[TexExSpur]

I agree 100% with this...
@Ianfitzespn: TCU AD @_delconte when asked if he is a proponent of a Big 12 Title Game "I am a proponent of everyone just chilling out. It's been 1 year"

 

[Scholz]

I agree 100% with this...
@Ianfitzespn: TCU AD @_delconte when asked if he is a proponent of a Big 12 Title Game "I am a proponent of everyone just chilling out. It's been 1 year"

Very much this.

 

[mm42]

Colin Cowherd just said Big12 will implode. Texas to PAC12 and OU to SEC. Obviously he is just guessing. But wondering if you guys would be ok with this. I think everyone recruiting against the rest of the BIG12 should remind recruits this is a probability (TCU and Baylor).

 

[TexExSpur]

Colin Cowherd just said Big12 will implode. Texas to PAC12 and OU to SEC. Obviously he is just guessing. But wondering if you guys would be ok with this. I think everyone recruiting against the rest of the BIG12 should remind recruits this is a probability (TCU and Baylor).

A lot will have to happen all at once for it to happen and OU is tied to their little bro. If they can get away from them and join the SEC. Who do you think the SEC takes for No.16? I know who they will try to land.......

 

[SOXAg]

Just out of curiosity, if you are looking for what is best for Texas, do you not think joining another power conference would benefit you the most? If you guys and OU were to go join the Pac 16 or ACC, do you not think you guys would benefit the most? I don't see you guys adding 2 more mediocre to bad teams to the Big 12 helps you guys long term. If you add Notre Dame and another power 5 school then yes I see where you would love that. Just asking, because Houston, Memphis, BYU, etc does nothing for you.

 

[TexExSpur]

Just out of curiosity, if you are looking for what is best for Texas, do you not think joining another power conference would benefit you the most? If you guys and OU were to go join the Pac 16 or ACC, do you not think you guys would benefit the most? I don't see you guys adding 2 more mediocre to bad teams to the Big 12 helps you guys long term. If you add Notre Dame and another power 5 school then yes I see where you would love that. Just asking, because Houston, Memphis, BYU, etc does nothing for you.

If adding two makes for a North and South with CCG and they're schools such as Memphis, Cincy, or a few others. It doesn't hurt anything, it would help the overall playoff look. Aggy got better moving on as did Mizzou, TCU obviously is getting better. Whatever schools they add will get better in football. They need to be competitive in other sports as well as academics...

The Big 12 is more likely to expand than implode.

 

[SOXAg]

I'm not saying that it hurts you guys, but I guess what I'm saying is that I feel you guys would want to play in Big games week in and week out. I don't feel like traveling to Memphis or Cincinnati excites you that much. You have a big time program that will always sell itself, but I'm just thinking from a fans point of view. I would think you would rather travel to Oregon, UCLA, USC, Arizona St, etc instead. I think it opens up more of California for you to recruit and the TV market is so much bigger there. I hate to use the words, but you are Texas and shouldn't be happy in a crappy conference with no big markets.

 

[TexExSpur]

I'm not saying that it hurts you guys, but I guess what I'm saying is that I feel you guys would want to play in Big games week in and week out. I don't feel like traveling to Memphis or Cincinnati excites you that much. You have a big time program that will always sell itself, but I'm just thinking from a fans point of view. I would think you would rather travel to Oregon, UCLA, USC, Arizona St, etc instead. I think it opens up more of California for you to recruit and the TV market is so much bigger there. I hate to use the words, but you are Texas and shouldn't be happy in a crappy conference with no big markets.

It's moot at this point in the game. The conference will have to disband for four teams to head West as a pod. If four teams head West it will likely be Texas, OU, OSU and Tech leaving six of which Kansas probably goes B1G with five still looking for homes in KSU, ISU, TCU, Baylor and WVU. I figure the ACC would grab two with WVU being the first and one of ISU or KSU? The SEC is still at 14, do they try to get any of these?

 

[TexExSpur]

If the conference disbands and is absorbed into the power 4, Okie Lite will have to have a known landing spot for OU to get a clean walk into the SEC. If they get that worked out, there's NO telling what Texas will do.

 

[mm42]

It's moot at this point in the game. The conference will have to disband for four teams to head West as a pod. If four teams head West it will likely be Texas, OU, OSU and Tech leaving six of which Kansas probably goes B1G with five still looking for homes in KSU, ISU, TCU, Baylor and WVU. I figure the ACC would grab two with WVU being the first and one of ISU or KSU? The SEC is still at 14, do they try to get any of these?

I don't think ACC would take WVU due to poor academics. I also can not imagine the SEC taking any of the leftovers. Doubt they would take OU if that meant OSU as well, but they might. SEC might stay put at 14 if they can't get TU and OU. Just don't think the other 8 bring much to the table but dead weight.

 

[Scholz]

Colin Cowherd just said Big12 will implode.

lulz. And you breathlessly ran over to the Longhorn site to spread this gem from that idiot? Collin Cowherd has also said that Tony Romo is better than Aaron Rodgers, Kevin Durant is overrated and Brandon Marshall is the best player in the NFL.

He's doing what he does best, piss people off with dumb comments and gets suckers to take him seriously. Skip Bayless. Same dude.

Cowherd on being a successful in that business, “I always tell young broadcasters, ‘You want to matter? Then get hate mail.’ If you get hate mail, it means you’re cutting through. It means you’re pissing people off. It means you sound different. So I’ve always had my own style, which is brutal honesty. I’ve never spent too much time worrying about hurt feelings.”

 

[Heisennberg]

I think the Big 12 disbanding would be the best thing that could happen. Unfortunately that doesn't appear likely at all.

 

[diadevic]

No way the committee was going to take BU or TCU over Ohio St. They favor the blue bloods and the committee was stacked. BU played into their hands by playing a week OOS. I would much rather each team beef up the OOS than add middling teams to the conference. A non conference win over Fla. St. or Michigan or UCLA would go further than beating a conference foe for the 2nd time in a season. BTW - where did Dan Beebe end up? I'll make sure to short the stock in his employer, because he sucked.

 

[westx]

I think the Big 12 disbanding would be the best thing that could happen. Unfortunately that doesn't appear likely at all.

Maybe it is best for Texas and ou, maybe not. If Texas and ou bolt, would the Big 12 fall apart? What would happen to the other teams. It isn't a bad conference for those teams considering none are the marquee state university, except KU. While we are talking about hypotheticals, I wouldn't think it be a bad idea for the existing teams to stay put and peel away New Mexico, and raid the AAC for Memphis, Cincy, and one Texas team-either SMU/Houston. That would restore the Big 12 to twelve teams. There is nothing magical about 12 teams, IMO. Ten teams works for me.

The biggest hangup for me is the CCG. The reason is that every conference doesn't get the same treatment as the SEC. The darling of the SEC can either lose or not make the CCG, yet still get a shot at the title. Having to potentially replay a team you already beat in the season just to have a CCG makes no sense to me.

 

[mm42]

lulz. And you breathlessly ran over to the Longhorn site to spread this gem from that idiot? ”

I said he was obviously guessing. I guess I could have said he was obviously making crap up.
I really wondered how many folks would consider it good news, and how many would think it is bad news. If I were you, I'd hope he is right. I'd prefer it if he were wrong.

 

[Scholz]

The Big XII conference is fine despite David Boren trying to puff himself up as a decision maker, $ooner fanboy Jake Trotter blogging about it or idiot Collin Cowherd trying to get clicks.

 

[Heisennberg]

Maybe it is best for Texas and ou, maybe not. If Texas and ou bolt, would the Big 12 fall apart? What would happen to the other teams. It isn't a bad conference for those teams considering none are the marquee state university, except KU. While we are talking about hypotheticals, I wouldn't think it be a bad idea for the existing teams to stay put and peel away New Mexico, and raid the AAC for Memphis, Cincy, and one Texas team-either SMU/Houston. That would restore the Big 12 to twelve teams. There is nothing magical about 12 teams, IMO. Ten teams works for me.

The biggest hangup for me is the CCG. The reason is that every conference doesn't get the same treatment as the SEC. The darling of the SEC can either lose or not make the CCG, yet still get a shot at the title. Having to potentially replay a team you already beat in the season just to have a CCG makes no sense to me.

Well, best from my point of view (OU fan). I dont know what a kansas fan thinks on the matter, I just dont like being in the laughing stock conference. Ou and texas are blue bloods, they could keep it solvent but they are down right now and arent dominating anyone.

It may make no sense to you but as far as being on the same competitive landscape it makes sense to me. I dont want to be at a disadvantage when all the other conference champs have an extra win. That hurt baylor and tcu. I dont care if we have 10 or 12, lets have a ccg and get on the same playing field. Our champ has to basically go undefeated in order to have a chance against a 1 loss P5 champ. No margin for error.

 

[Brentwood Sooner]

If Baylor wins the big 12 with one loss they will probably be left out again because of there OOS and choking in there last 2 bowl games. I tjunk the only teams have a chance is TCU or if OU wins it

 

[littleton tiger]

mm42 is, in my opinion , spot on. the only Big 12 schools that would interest the SEC are Texas and Oklahoma or possibly Texas and Oklahoma State all the rest are lightweights at best or dead weight at worst.