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Athlon article, pretty interesting

Fizzwilly

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Feb 22, 2011
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Lon Kruger and Bob Stoops at Oklahoma Have Edge over Baylor's Duo



Ranking the Big 12's Football-Basketball Coaching Tandems



The Big 12 academic year has been an experiment in contrasts in recent years.

In football, new powers have taken over with Baylor, TCU and Oklahoma State claiming championships since 2011.

Yet in basketball, the old guard - the only true blue blood in the league - continues to rule as Kansas appears headed to its 11th consecutive Big 12 title.

It makes sense, then, that of the top football-basketball coaching tandems on our list, one comes from a traditional power and the other comes from a new-age contender.

Oklahoma tops our list even after a lackluster football season by Bob Stoops' standards. The Sooners, in general, are contenders in both football and men's basketball under Stoops and Lon Kruger, respectively.

That said, Baylor is quickly gaining. Art Briles has claimed the last two Big 12 football titles, and basketball coach Scott Drew looks to have one of the better teams of his tenure, only a year after reaching the Sweet 16.

Indeed, these are strange times in the Big 12 when Baylor - a non-factor in both sports a decade ago - is pressing to have the most competitive program in an academic year.

The goal of our coach tandem rankings is to look at each football and basketball duo as a pair. In general, we're looking at the duos most likely to keep each school's fans happy and entertained from the start of football season through the end of basketball season.

That means it may look at little strange to see a top football coach or top basketball coach near the bottom of the rankings. That's nothing against, say, Kansas basketball coach Bill Self. Rather, the football side is the one that has to kick it up a notch to at least give Jayhawks fans something to cheer in September and October before basketball season rolls around.
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1. Oklahoma
Football: [/B]Bob Stoops | Basketball: [/B]Lon Kruger
Even though Stoops is coming off an 8-5 campaign, the most disappointing since he's been a head coach, Oklahoma has the most solid coaching duo in the league. Stoops has won at least 10 games in four of the last five seasons and made more BCS games than any other coach under the old system. Kruger, whose forte is rebuilding programs, has completed his reclamation of OU basketball with his best team this season. No program is more likely to be in a major bowl game and the NCAA Tournament in the same season as Oklahoma.
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2. Baylor
Football: [/B]Art Briles | Basketball: [/B]Scott Drew
The year before Briles was hired, Baylor football was riding 12 consecutive losing seasons. When Drew was hired, Baylor was emerging from one of the biggest scandals in college basketball history. It's tough to find a duo who improved their school's situation more from the day they were hired until 2015. Briles had Baylor on the verge of the College Football Playoff and won the last two Big 12 titles. And Drew has twice taken Baylor basketball to the Elite Eight and once to the Sweet 16.
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3. Kansas State
Football: [/B]Bill Snyder | Basketball: [/B]Bruce Weber
Kansas State failed to sign a top 50 recruiting class in 2015, but that doesn't matter. We'll end up talking about the Wildcats as a top 10 team at some point anyway. That's the deal for Snyder, whose teams have been the biggest overachievers in college football. Weber's team has fallen below expectations this season, but he's still two years removed from a 27-win season and a share of the Big 12 title.
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4. TCU
Football:[/B] Gary Patterson | Basketball:[/B] Trent Johnson
In only TCU's third season in the Big 12, the Horned Frogs won a share of the league and were in playoff contention until the final week of the season. Most of all, Patterson deserves credit for altering his offensive philosophy for a 12-1 season in 2014, not an easy ask for any coach who had already been wildly successful earlier in his career with two BCS bowls out of the Mountain West. Johnson, who took both Nevada and Stanford to the Sweet 16, has an uphill battle with TCU's neglected basketball program, but the Frogs' 14 wins this season is the most of his tenure.
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5. Texas
Football:[/B] Charlie Strong | Basketball: [/B]Rick Barnes
Is there any reason why Texas shouldn't have the best coaching tandem in the league? Not long ago, Texas indeed had one of the top duos. From 2003-05, the Longhorns reached a Final Four and won a football title under Mack Brown and Barnes. Now, both programs are in a state of flux. Strong is entering Year Two of his project to return the Longhorns to national contention. Barnes has reached the NCAA Tournament in 15 of 16 seasons at Texas, but this season is shaping up to be another disappointing campaign. Barnes' preseason top 10 team is flirting with a losing record in the Big 12.
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6. Oklahoma State
Football:[/B] Mike Gundy | Basketball:[/B] Travis Ford
Are either Gundy or Ford the most accomplished coaches at their individual sports in the Big 12? No. But remember, this is a ranking of tandems[/I], and it's tough to argue Oklahoma State keeps things interesting from the start of football season until the end of basketball season. Gundy has led Oklahoma State to four of Oklahoma State's 10 top 20 finishes all time, including No. 3 and a Big 12 title in 2011. Ford has made up for last season's disappointing 21-13 campaign with a surprising top-25 team this year.
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7. Kansas
Football:[/B] David Beaty | Basketball: [/B]Bill Self
Remember: This is a ranking of coaching tandems as a duo. Self is is on his way to his 11th consecutive Big 12 title, but football is on its third football coach since its last bowl game. The football side made a bold move in hiring the 44-year-old ace recruiter Beaty. The former Texas A&M position coach is an unknown commodity, but being an unknown is a step up from his predecessor, who was known to not be very good.
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8. Iowa State
Football: [/B]Paul Rhoads | Basketball: [/B]Fred Hoiberg
Iowa State needs to be creative to be competitive. The Cyclones have creativity at both spots. Hoiberg as turned Iowa State into Transfer U and one of the few places that plays an up-tempo - and successful - offensive system. Rhoads has been notable for his impassioned speeches, but he has one winning season and a career 14-48 Big 12 record in six years.
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9. West Virginia
Football: [/B]Dana Holgorsen | Basketball: [/B]Bob Huggins
No doubt, this is one of the more interesting college pairings in terms of personality. And as a Big East tandem, it was one of the best. Holgorsen won the Big East in his first season, but he's 18-20 in three seasons in the Big 12. Huggins has 758 career wins and reached the Final Four with WVU in 2010, but he's yet to reach the NCAA Tournament as a Big 12 member.
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10. Texas Tech
Football:[/B] Kliff Kingsbury | Basketball: [/B]Tubby Smith
This would make an interesting buddy cop show. The two are separated in age by 28 years. Kingsbury is Coach Cool. Tubby Smith is ... not as cool. What would make both coaches more cool, though, would be more wins. Since starting his career with seven consecutive wins, Kingsbury is 5-13. Meanwhile, Smith led Kentucky to the 1998 national title but hasn't had a winning conference record in the Big Ten or Big 12 since leaving Kentucky.


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I think you would have to weight football success a little more than basketball if the goal is to have a duo that keeps fans happy. For all the schools listed (except Kansas) football success goes a lot longer to a happy fan base than success in basketball.

As an OU fan, do you think that the OU fan base is the happiest in the Big 12 right now? Because unless I am misinterpreting the article that was the goal of the ranking.
 
Did you really post an article from David Fox? I feel embarrassed for you right now.

I honestly didn't even know the guy still had a job after his "joke" of a stint at Rivals. Bleacher Report or Athlon Sports sounds about right for Fox.

This post was edited on 2/19 11:40 AM by utisdabomb12
 
Dabomb, I didn't say it was gospel it is just interesting. Quit whining. As you say it is about our conference.
 
"Dabomb, I didn't say it was gospel it is just interesting. Quit whining. As you say it is about our conference."

I didn't even read it once I saw it was written by Fox. He's on the level of Perez Hilton.
 
Bomb prefers letting 17 and 18 year old boys whisper in his ear and take it as gospel. But any publicated news source is illegitimate in his eyes. Haha good grief you're rich Bomb.
 
"Bomb prefers letting 17 and 18 year old boys whisper in his ear and take it as gospel. But any publicated news source is illegitimate in his eyes. Haha good grief you're rich Bomb."

Someone is still a little worked up I see from the whole "DGB in the top 15" incident. I got some good laughs in. I'm so far in your head. It's like you have serious reading comprehension problems. Not once did I say "any news source is illegitimate". I said a specific author is a joke. My goodness that Sooner education is pretty much worthless.

This post was edited on 2/19 12:40 PM by utisdabomb12

This post was edited on 2/19 12:45 PM by utisdabomb12
 
Bomb that thread is there for everyone to see the chump and crawfished you are. It will continue to be bumped. How does it feel being like the prison play toy for these boys you stalk and dm on twitter only for them to pimp you out and feed you false info. Did you really believe they would give info to just some random dude? No you were dm them to death and they punked you out.
 
"Bomb that thread is there for everyone to see the chump and crawfished you are."

The thread where you posted a mock draft from November, where even the original source recently predicted DGB at #26 in the draft. You are hilarious. Several people in the thread called you out for posting an article that was outdated. Just because you keep repeating the "crawfish" line doesn't make it anymore true, Belldouche. This is quite enjoyable, I'm so far in your head.
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This post was edited on 2/19 12:50 PM by utisdabomb12
 
Still waiting for all those recruiting dominoes to fall after the big catch Bomb. Oh wait...that never happened either. You are entertaining I'll give you that.
 
"Still waiting for all those recruiting dominoes to fall after the big catch Bomb. Oh wait...that never happened either. You are entertaining I'll give you that."

Why are you so mad, Belldouche? Is it because you couldn't produce one recent source that said DGB would be a top 15 pick? Or is it because you embarrassed yourself by posting a mock draft from November? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
"Quit hijacking the thread damit."

Talk to your fellow sooner troll. Everyone knows why you posted the article here, don't act like you actually wanted rational discourse.

This post was edited on 2/19 1:17 PM by utisdabomb12
 
"Actually I would have voted for Baylor."

Actually you started the thread to troll, you aren't fooling anybody. If the article didn't have OU at #1 and Texas at #5 you would have never posted the article.

Your history is your history, and you are known troll on this board. Heck, just look at the arguing and bickering thread at the top of the page. Several people have asked for you to be banned because you start very threads like this and try to instigate.
 
"Actually I would have voted for Baylor."

Actually you started the thread to troll, you aren't fooling anybody. If the article didn't have OU at #1 and Texas at #5 you would have never posted the article.

Your history is your history, and you are known troll on this board. Heck, just look at the arguing and bickering thread at the top of the page. Several people have asked for you to be banned because you start threads like this and try to instigate.

If you wanted any type of rational discourse you would have just started a thread asking for a ranking among OB posters. Like I said, you aren't fooling anybody. I really don't mind the article to begin with, minus the fact that the author is a total joke. If you are going to troll/talk trash at least man up and roll with it, instead of acting like you really want to engage a subject.
 
Originally posted by Fizzwilly:
Actually I would have voted for Baylor.
Me too. Baylor's had more recent success. They're being penalized for how it used to be.
 
Baylor should be ahead of OU, but Scott Drew isn't a good coach. Drew is a great recruiter, below average coach.
 
Kruger is also an overrated basketball coach. A good coach but not elite. Rick Barnes' has a more impressive resume than Kruger, so that's all you really need to know. OU should be much lower. Stoops just made a complete staff overhaul to give the impression that things are different. It's Mack Brown 2.0, Stoops is on his last leg. Kruger's ceiling is the first and second round of the tournament with his style of play.



This post was edited on 2/19 2:21 PM by utisdabomb12
 
Originally posted by utisdabomb12:
Rick Barnes' has a more impressive resume than Kruger, so that's all you really need to know. Kruger's ceiling is the first and second round of the tournament with his style of play.




This post was edited on 2/19 2:21 PM by utisdabomb12
I'll just assume you are joking around or have no idea what you are talking about.
 
"I'll just assume you are joking around or have no idea what you are talking about."

Dead serious. What part are you referring too the Rick Barnes has a better resume or the ceiling is the first or second round for Kruger?

This post was edited on 2/19 2:34 PM by utisdabomb12
 
Originally posted by utisdabomb12:
"I'll just assume you are joking around or have no idea what you are talking about."

Dead serious. What part are you referring too the Rick Barnes has a better resume or the ceiling is the first or second round for Kruger?


This post was edited on 2/19 2:34 PM by utisdabomb12
Kruger has made it as far as the Sweet Sixteen, Elite 8 and Final Four, so that refers to your ceiling comment. Kruger is the only head coach in Division I history to lead five programs to the NCAA tournament so to say Barnes' resume is much better is a reach. Plus Lon is 5-1 against Barnes in their last 6 meetings I believe with a current streak of 4 in a row.
 
Lon Kruger: .613 win percentage, 554 total wins, 1 final four, 1 elite 8, 1 sweet 16, made the tournament 15 times.

Rick Barnes: .662 win percentage, 598 wins, 1 final four, 2 elite 8, 3 sweet 16, made the tournament 21 times.


As for the "first or second round ceiling comment" it's really "2nd or 3rd round" now considering the tournament added a play in a game. But the statement is still true. Since the 93-94 season at Florida, Kruger has only made it out of the 2nd round in the tournament one time. So yeah, in 20 some years he's only made it past the second round once. He's only made it past the 2nd round 3 times in 29 years of coaching, and only once in recent history (20 something years). Kruger's guard heavy style of basketball doesn't win come tournament time. Every blue moon Kruger gets out of the second round, but his ceiling is pretty much the 1st or 2nd round in today's basketball world because of his style of play.


This post was edited on 2/19 2:51 PM by utisdabomb12

This post was edited on 2/19 2:54 PM by utisdabomb12
 
"Dabomb, Kruger is just good enough to beat Barnes consistently wouldn't you say?"

So you judge a coaches resume on a couple games, man you gooners aren't very bright. Beating Barnes twice last year meant absolutely nothing as you were knocked out in the first game of the Big 12 tournament and the NCAA tournament. That's the problem with Kruger's style of play, it doesn't win come tournament time. But hey, if you are judging which coach is better based on a couple of head to head match ups sure.

This post was edited on 2/19 2:57 PM by utisdabomb12
 
Dabomb, actually I posted the thread to have a discussion about the merits of the article. but you post anything you want. I am sure you can pull something out of your ass as usual.

You are a troll on your own board. And yes, a lot of folks have said you need banning.
 
Originally posted by utisdabomb12:
"Dabomb, Kruger is just good enough to beat Barnes consistently wouldn't you say?"

So you judge a coaches resume on a couple games, man you gooners aren't very bright. Beating Barnes twice last year meant absolutely nothing.


This post was edited on 2/19 2:57 PM by utisdabomb12
Yeah, you're right OU beating UT 5 out of 6 times and 4 in a row means absolutely nothing.
 
"Yeah, you're right OU beating UT 5 out of 6 times and 4 in a row means absolutely nothing."

I mean if that's your Superbowl, sure. Me personally, I would rather make a deeper run in the Big 12 tourney and NCAA tournament. Did you hang a head to head victory banner over Texas, after North Dakota State beat you in the 1st round last year?

FYI I never said that OU beating UT means nothing, I said Kruger has a hard time winning come tournament time. If your Superbowl is beating Texas in regular season games, Kruger is your guy.
 
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