And there are RBs in the HOF with lesser numbers. I wouldn’t vote for Ricky to be inducted into the HOF but his numbers put him in the conversation.
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (A little gushing if you don't mind...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
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And there are RBs in the HOF with lesser numbers. I wouldn’t vote for Ricky to be inducted into the HOF but his numbers put him in the conversation.
Those rare few are from guys who played in completely different eras, save for Terrell Davis and to some extent, Earl. And clearly Davis and Earl were simply dominant players in their short time. Ricky’s never been in any remotely serious conversation about the HOF.
Ketch, we know you’re under the weather when you don’t even mention the Phillies(!) or put out a top 10 list. Take your time cranking back up. It’s a long season.
Just don't tell us your sick, and "gushing".Forgive me for any mistakes. I'm sweating, running a slight fever and need to go back to bed.
But, damnit, if the post office can deliver on bad days, so can I.
Exactly. People love to underrate Ricky because of lifestyle choices he made, but he was an incredible talent. His toughness and strength are all that kept his career going in MIami when he had ridiculously bad blocking and little offensive support. The punishment he absorbed game after game was brutal. Aside from taking three years out of his career to explore the world, he had a remarkable NFL career on top of setting records at Texas that are unlikely to ever be broken.
It's not a knock on Ricky to say that a guy that finished as the only running back in the last 60 years to have a +5.1 career YPC was better than him.
Ricky earned all pro honors once.... Jamaal did it three times.
Not apples and oranges. I would take Ricky over Jamaal, as exciting as he was, any day. Jamaal was a scat back, much more limited back than Ricky who was powerful and fast. Remarkable combination of speed and power.
You have a bias on this that has shown before. So do I.
I'll say this...
Ricky was never going to be a guy who averaged 5.4 ypc in the NFL. But Jamaal was never going to be a guy durable enough to log 2,431 career attempts or carry the ball over 380 times in back-to-back seasons. When Jamaal hit 1,300 career attempts, his body couldn't handle anymore.
Both guys were more effective in the roles they played in the NFL than they would have been had they switched roles.
Agree. Jamaal could never have stood the pounding that Ricky took game after game. He would have had a very short career had he played at Miami and taken the beating that Ricky was able to withstand play after play, game after game. Ricky would have had very different career stats had he played in KC, but still outgained Jamaal by more than 2400 yards.
One guy was a three-time all-pro with a historicaly good YPC.
The other guy wasn't. Sorry, this isn't rocket science.
The other guy wasn't. Sorry, this isn't rocket science.
Agree to disagree. It is not rocket science nor any other kind of science. The two players were in radically different circumstances. Jamaal could not possibly have done what Ricky did. He would have been out of the league quickly had he had to sustain the continual pounding that Ricky took at Miami. It is a subjective judgment as to who was better. The great Earl averaged 4.3 ypc for his career. To me Jamaal was back with enormous ability to make big plays. His coaches catered the offense to give him chances to make big plays. He was not close to being the all around back that Ricky was. That is why Ricky won the Heisman and Jamaal was not in the top ten vote getters.
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I didn't know I lived in a world where one person made three times as many all-pro honors, while averaging nearly a yard and a half more than him over the course of a career, and the counter to that could somehow be related to a subjective plea towards circumstances.
Not sure why this is turning into a debate…but all I know is if I were to choose a RB to center a college team around, I’d choose Ricky any day over any other exUT RB (maybe or maybe not excluding Earl).
College stats clearly lean Ricky’s way over JC. NFL stats is less clear.
I’m perplexed why such defense of JC is provided. While I clearly love to see all UT grads do well at the next level, I care the most about what they do while wearing burnt orange. Ricky is the GOAT in burnt orange (again excluding Earl from this debate). Ketch - would be curious to hear your take on just their collegiate careers.
College stats clearly lean Ricky’s way over JC. NFL stats is less clear.
I’m perplexed why such defense of JC is provided. While I clearly love to see all UT grads do well at the next level, I care the most about what they do while wearing burnt orange. Ricky is the GOAT in burnt orange (again excluding Earl from this debate). Ketch - would be curious to hear your take on just their collegiate careers.
Now of course its too early to say anything about Bijan, career wise, but it won't take much at all for Bijan to BE the best running back since Ricky. Jamaal was great at times, and for the second half of 2007. But he really needed a complete year as the BAMF. If Bijan has 2 years as the BAMF, he trivially surpasses JC at Texas.
And I couldn't give 2 chit's about how good they were in the NFL. Priest Holmes was stunningly good for a few years in the NFL. Doesn't change that Cedric Benson and many others were WAY more important and successful at Texas.
Same for JC. He was good and almost great at Texas and had a stunning pro career. Good for him to keep getting better. I blame Mack and Greg. Sark or somebody like Joe Brady would have gotten him a Heisman (but JC was hampered by a crap OL). There were lots of player that did not match their potential on the 40 after 2005. Those players could fill 3 teams.
That's just silly. Colt in 2008 and 2009 was the MVP for a very very good texas team with the least offensive help of any QB in the last 30 years. In 2008, he had jordan quan and Chris O. In 2009 he had Jordan, period. No other NFL talent whatsoever.
Name me a QB that took his team to the championship game on the back of his passes to 1 other guy. Colt meant more to 2009 than VY did to 2005.
I am with you all the way until that last sentence. W/O Vince we don't beat USC in a classic Championship game, and that was a Nattie. We'll never know if Colt could have pulled Texas to a victory against Bama. I do agree Colt had less talent than the '05 team. No doubt there.
CASE McCoy's first start was even better: 12 of 15, 168 yds, 218.1 rating vs. UCLA in 2011. Jerrod Heard has the best rating in a first start, 295.4 vs. Rice in 2015.
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It's also dumb because he went from talking about who was the better Texas RB to comparing NFL stats. I don't really find what they did as pros relevant to the question.
As the president of the Hudson Card Fan Club, are you serving the burnt orange coolaid this early??? You better get rid of the ladders and broken mirrors in your house.
My statement is without doubt or debate. Without Colt, we don’t win 5 games. VY’s team had as much offensive talent as any team at Texas in history. Basically every starter spent time in the league. Most of the backups.
But nobody on 2009 outside of Colt spent more than a minute in the league. It might have been the least talented O, well at least since DKR. You could call it the Colt/Jordan show
Regardless of what you think of the outcomes and VY’s individual talent, Colt meant WAY more to 2009’s outcome (like 75%) vs 2005 where VY was maybe 50% but probably less given the O talent surrounding him. The outcomes for 2005 and 2009, if you swapped QB’s, are much more similar, IMO, for 2005 than 2009.
I just found this photo of this young man. I didn't realize he is Derek Jeter's nephew, and the tip of the cap is at Jeter's last Yankee game. This shows him at Jeter getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. Cool...Thanks Ketch - take care of yourself...
what do you mean "one"?
Card was a dual threat QB in high school. that doesn't matter in Sark's offense.
better to play with him than against him.
Man, ketch, some really outstanding observations. Very impressive.
In terms of first career starts, here's how Hudson Card's first start with the Longhorns measured against other starting quarterbacks in the last 30 years.
Hudson Card: 14 of 21 for 224 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 10.7 YPA, 187.7 rating
1993 Shea Morenz at Colorado: 23 of 42 for 347 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT, 8.3 YPA, 112.97 rating
1994 James Brown vs. Oklahoma: 17 of 22 for 148 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 6.7 YPA, 139.7 rating
1998 Major Applewhite at Kansas State: 16 of 37 for 239 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT, 6.5 YPA, 95.6 rating
1999 Chris Simms at Texas A&M: 10 of 21 for 130 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 6.2 YPA, 90.1 rating
2003 Vince Young at Iowa State: 11 of 15 for 136 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 9.1 YPA, 158.2 rating
2006 Colt McCoy vs. North Texas: 12 of 19 for 178 yards, 3 TD, O INT, 9.4 YPA, 194.0 rating
2011 David Ash vs. Oklahoma State: 22 of 40 for 139 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 3.5 YPA, 74.2 rating
2016 Shane Buechele vs. Notre Dame: 16 of 26 for 280 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 10.8 YPA, 157.0 rating
2017 Sam Ehlinger vs. Sam Jose State: 15 of 27 for 222 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 8.2 YPA, 136.8 rating
A few thoughts on the numbers...
* Six of those 10 starts came against ranked teams, with only Brown, Buechele and Card coming away with wins.
* Only McCoy finished with a higher opening-game efficiency score (194.0), followed by Card's 187.7 rating against Louisiana. There's almost a full 30-point drop between Card's finish and the No. 3 player on the list, which was Young at Iowa State. Of those three performances, only Card's came against a ranked team.
* The only player with a higher yards-per-attempt than Card's 10.7 on Saturday was Buechele's bombs-away performance against the Irish back in 2016. Only McCoy and Young topped 9 YPA among the other eight players on the list.
Overall, I don't have any major declarations about the performance other than to say it was very impressive and ranks among the best opening-game performances by any quarterback in program history. Was it better than McCoy back in 2006 vs. North Texas or Buechele in 2016?
It's too subjective to say for sure, but it's certainly in the discussion.
No. 2 - Arm talent in photos ...
I can only imagine how sick some of you must have been over the last month at the constant mention of Card's arm talent by myself and others.
Yet, there was a play on Saturday that was a perfect example of Card's arm talent helping creating a big play on what was a fairly simple throw to the naked eye.
Let's take a look.
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On this 3rd and 11, the Longhorns went with a five-wides look, with a trips set to the right of Card and twins to the left. It's a five vs. five look for the Texas offensive line and it did a good job of giving Card time to let his receivers get down the field beyond the depth needed for a first down. You can see in the picture exactly where Card is about to go with the football (see Jordan Whittington in the middle).
View attachment 1471
As Whittington turns his head, Card has already released the ball. It should be a simple throw and catch, but there's a little more going on than meets the eye.
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When Whittington catches the dart from Card, you'll notice that there's more than two full yards of separation between Whittington and the defender closing down on him. In a game with incredibly fine margins, Card's combination of quick release and increased velocity is a big part of the reason why Whittington has so much room to work with. Another quarterback with a slower release and less velocity likely wouldn't have kept the first down from being completed, but it probably would have allowed the defender in question to close that the distance between him and Whittington to something closer to one yard than two.
In this instance, that distance is everything because instead of having a defender make contact on Whittington as soon as he catches the ball, Whittington has just enough time to actually make something happen in space.
View attachment 1473
In less than half a second, the defender has closed down on Whittington, who is able to use that half-second to make his move, which will leave that defender grasping for air and Whittington running into space.
There's a lot that goes into this play, from the scheming to the protection to the route running to the move after the catch. It's easy to look beyond just how well Card throws the ball from the pocket and how quickly the ball arrives, but it is not insignificant by any stretch.
No. 3 - Just stay healthy, Jordan ...
It's taken a couple years to get there, but Texas fans everywhere finally got a chance to see what Jordan Whittington can do when he's healthy, used properly and plays with quarterbacks that look to get him the football.
Two months ago, I was calling for a 100-reception season for Whittington, but backed off of that projection in August when the hamstring concern popped up.
Yet, if he can just stay on the field, Whittington is going to make a real run at 100 catches.
In fact, if we project Saturday's numbers over a 12-game season, we're talking about 84 receptions for 1,356 yards and 12 touchdowns. Considering the Longhorns were fairly conservative on the offensive side of the ball, as you might expect in a season-opener with a new quarterback, don't be shocked if Whittington has a double-digit receptions game on Saturday at Arkansas.
Just stay healthy, Jordan.
No. 4 – ICYMI ...
(Note: Sorry about missing the post-game show on Saturday. I'll try not to let that happen again.)
No. 5 - About Bijan ...
In my mind, there's no question that he's a better football player than D'Onte Foreman and almost any other running back this school has seen in this century.
With his 176 yards of all-purpose offense against Louisiana, we might be looking at a legit Heisman finalist kind of season.
Just do me a favor ... don't say he's the best running back at Texas since Ricky Williams.
It feels like a major disservice to Jamaal Charles, who actually turned out to be the best NFL running back talent that the school has ever produced next to Earl Campbell. In fact, as much as I personally loved Williams as a player, we can't ignore that Charles averaged nearly 1.4 yards per carry more than Williams in the NFL, which is rather mind-boggling.
Oh, if only Jamaal had returned for the 2008 season ...
No. 6 - Scattershooting on the defense ...
... I thought Pete Kwiatkowski put together a very sound unit for a game one. It might not have been full of exotics and playmaking wildness, but the Longhorns kept everything in front of them, played sound technique and tackled well. When your defense does that, it's funny how so much else can fall into place.
... We need to get ready for DeMarvion Overshown and Luke Brockermeyer to have monster seasons on the defensive side of the ball. This defense feels designed for those two to rip stuff up. Their 23 combined tackles, two tackles for loss and one combined sack seemed to scream that we might be looking at two all-Big 12 players this year.
... Notre Dame transfer Ovie Oghoufo might only play at Texas for one season, especially if his multidimensional game from Saturday was any indication.
... The fact that you didn't hear Josh Thompson or D'Shawn Jamison's name very much on Saturday kind of reminded me of Quentin Jammer's best seasons on the 40 Acres. If you're only giving up a catch or two all game for 8-10 yards, it doesn't matter that you didn't create any turnovers. It's hard to create turnovers when the opposing quarterback wants nothing to do with you. Let's see if Arkansas wants to play with fire a little more than Louisiana did.
No. 7 – Unsung Hero Award …
I know Cameron Dicker missed a field goal on Saturday, but my goodness, he did everything else except sell drinks and hot dogs in the stands.
* Dicker was six of seven on kickoffs going for touchbacks.
* Dicker averaged 51.5 yards per punt, with both of his punts going beyond 50 yards.
* Dicker made good on his 49-yard field goal after missing his 45-yard attempt earlier in the game.
Don't be one of those people that only focuses on the one thing that he did wrong when he was called on to do so much and did almost all of it sensationally.
No. 8 - I don't know what to tell opposing defenses ...
I don't know how you defend Bijan Robinson when he lines up as a receiver, but teams better figure something out because this feels like a big problem if they can't.
No. 9 - Meet Arkansas' best player ...
This is definitely one that got away.
No. 10 - And Finally ...
Sorry for the abbreviated column. Here's to me not being sick next weekend and being able to throw 5,000 words your way after a big win in Fayetteville.
