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Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (It all comes down to this ...)

I know I'm late to the party, but you know I can't let this thread go without commenting on your top 15.

My 1-4 is exactly the same as yours for starters. Good job there.

My clear #5 is Russell for all the reasons I've said before. 11 rings, 9-10 finals MVP awards (if they had given out Finals MVPs in that era), 5 regular season MVP awards, and 7-1 vs Wilt head to head in playoff series. If you were writing this article in 1972 with all those head to head victories fresh in your mind, there's no way you'd ever rank Wilt ahead of Russell.

I have Duncan #6, Wilt #7, Bird #8. Thoughts here... You can talk me into Wilt at #6, but how great can Wilt really be if he was traded two times during his prime... once for Connie Dierking, Paul Neumann, Lee Shaffer, and once for Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark, and Darrell Imhoff. If you have heard of even one of those six stiffs, I'll give you Wilt at #6 instead of #7. Duncan with 5 titles in a 30 team league compared to Wilt with 2 titles in a 10 team league, along with being a much better teammate, smarter player, and the polar opposite of Wilt in a guy who cared more about winning than stats.

That covers all 8 tier 1 guys (multiple MVP, multiple titles, and multiple finals MVP awards). So we move to tier 2 guys. #9 Kobe, #10 Shaq, #11 Hakeem. Kobe gets the edge over Shaq on durability (never showed up to camp overweight/out of shape), longevity of greatness and winning 2 titles after the Shaq trade as the best player, where Shaq won 1 title as 2nd best player after the trade. Kobe also has the edge over Shaq in 1st team all NBA selections (9-8) and a huge edge in all-defense selections (12-3 total, 9-0 1st team). Hakeem's two titles are simply not enough to get him ahead of Shaq with 4 or Kobe with 5.

So we have the same 11 guys 1-11, and after that, I'd go Jerry West at 12, Oscar at 13, Moses at 14, and slide in Durant at 15. Without another regular season MVP, I have Durant's ceiling at #9 and without winning at least 5 titles (or at least one title on a team other than this Warriors team), I have his ceiling at #11.
I just can't rate Russell higher than players that were flat out better than him. His rings are a product of fate smiling on him. He was a seriously limited offensive player, who wasn't awesome in the playoffs.

The rest of it is fine IMO.
 
No strong preference in either player (both great), but i always read/thought of Iverson as a PG. A bit of a ball hog PG, but a PG nonetheless. PGs by nature usually have the ball in their hands a majority of time...none of the others with that titile could assist and score like Iverson.

Harden a rare exception, though the team called him PG the year before getting CP, then he was 'officialy" back to SG.
AI is a combo guard that most historians slot into the SG range.

On the best team he ever played on, he was a shooting guard.
 
On the baseball takes...
I think your admiration of Kody Clemens is justified today. However, I'm still butthurt about the Big 12 Tourney when the same team phoned it in (including Kody). I hope the Horns win it all but on the inside I see a team with no emotion or leadership. I, like others, sometimes compare Pierce with Garrido and I don't see the gambler this year. We are too complacent to lose 1 run games. Too conservative to squeeze bunt against a gimpy opposing 3rd baseman. Too willing to follow Kody's lead in determining this team's attitude. Geoff, a while back you told me "let's just win in June". I'm still standing with my fingers crossed. Hook 'em.

Posts like this that are perfect examples of why we need a " DISLIKE" button.
 
What more do you think it'll take for him to be in the top 10? And where do you think he ends up when its all said and done?
That is a great question.

I think four rings and another 3-5 All-NBA type seasons.

He'd be at 30,000+ points at that point if he stays healthy, his accomplishments will be potentially gaudy.
 
I love that the supposed biggest World Sports event is about to start and half of this board filled with rabid sports fans doesn't even know about it or care. That translates to about 80% or more of average Americans are clueless and don't care about to the World Cup. Luckily there's only 82 days left until football.

I’ll be watching. I’m just not knowledgeable enough about it to discuss it.
 
I think Curry is one of those guys like Iverson or Vince Carter who people overrate in the present, but over time will fall on most lists. He's considered the greatest shooter ever because he was kind of a pioneer in being the first super volume 3 point shooter. There will be many, many more going forward.
3-time champ
2-time MVP
Former Scoring champion
In the 50/40/90 club
Career 43.6-percent shooter from 3-point range

Come on...

@Ketchum So if every current player in the nba were 19-20 years old right now and eligible for the draft what does your mock draft look like? Does curry go number 3 overall? Obviously James goes #1. Give us your top 10 picks of current nba players.
 
That is a great question.

I think four rings and another 3-5 All-NBA type seasons.

He'd be at 30,000+ points at that point if he stays healthy, his accomplishments will be potentially gaudy.
I agree. Although another ring a finals MVP might be enough along with 3-5 more excellent seasons. You think he finishes in the top 5 or just outside when its all said and done?

I can see him in the top 7 depending on how he finishes his career.
 
AI is a combo guard that most historians slot into the SG range.

On the best team he ever played on, he was a shooting guard.

He certainly was a scorer who hogged the ball for the right reasons (the ball was best in his hands). Career average 6.2 APG. 26.2 PPG

I just took a quick look at Wikipedia...they list him as PG/SG. Not that Wiki is such a great NBA source, but there is a resasonable argument that he was both.

It's all opinion on this point. Basically he was both when he wanted to be.

Again, Ketch, no big deal.
 
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I agree. Although another ring a finals MVP might be enough along with 3-5 more excellent seasons. You think he finishes in the top 5 or just outside when its all said and done?

I can see him in the top 7 depending on how he finishes his career.
I think he and Bird will be side by side.
 
@Ketchum So if every current player in the nba were 19-20 years old right now and eligible for the draft what does your mock draft look like? Does curry go number 3 overall? Obviously James goes #1. Give us your top 10 picks of current nba players.
@Guy on a Buffalo 75

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. A. Davis
4. Curry
5. Embiid
6. Harden
7. CP3
8. Kawhi
9. Westbrook
10. Simmons
 
On the baseball takes...
I think your admiration of Kody Clemens is justified today. However, I'm still butthurt about the Big 12 Tourney when the same team phoned it in (including Kody). I hope the Horns win it all but on the inside I see a team with no emotion or leadership. I, like others, sometimes compare Pierce with Garrido and I don't see the gambler this year. We are too complacent to lose 1 run games. Too conservative to squeeze bunt against a gimpy opposing 3rd baseman. Too willing to follow Kody's lead in determining this team's attitude. Geoff, a while back you told me "let's just win in June". I'm still standing with my fingers crossed. Hook 'em.
The Big 12 Tournament was and always will be almost meaningless.
 
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