OT: Stanford study concludes masks are worthless...WOOPSIE!

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio

This was published late in 2020 but is just now getting attention by some news outlets. Not only are masks ineffective but they are potentially more harmful and could be deadly. Just more evidence that we’ve been lied to about masks but I’m astounded at how many people still swear by them.
 

easttx903

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2017
730
417
63
its not a stanford study, Its a Hypothesis by a psyiologist. i wish it were true tho.
 

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio
its not a stanford study, Its a Hypothesis by a psyiologist. i wish it were true tho.
It’s true. The hypothesis was brought forward by a Stanford scholar with the university’s blessing and was peer reviewed by 67 scientists, scholars and doctors before it was published. When you review the study it is quite extensive and supported with other scientific studies that are publicly available. It’s a remarkable review.
 

speedstrength

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2008
1,575
590
113
It’s true. The hypothesis was brought forward by a Stanford scholar with the university’s blessing and was peer reviewed by 67 scientists, scholars and doctors before it was published. When you review the study it is quite extensive and supported with other scientific studies that are publicly available. It’s a remarkable review.

It is not a study. It is not even a metaanalysis or a metastudy. Its a gloried lit review. Its that guys hypothesis based on studies that didn't test that guys specific hypothesis. He doesn't need Standford's permission or blessing. He can write and publish what he chooses. It's called academic freedom and since it is not a study he doesn't need IRB approval. The paper was not peer reviewed by 67 scientist. It cites 67 papers. I am not sure if it is even peer reviewed. I am having trouble finding the author guidelines.

It isn't even 3500 words. That is a very short paper. For comparison I published two papers about online physical education during covid in the past few months. One was based on survey data and the other was based on reviewing videos teachers created for their students. One was 5500 words the other was almost 7000.

In short its one guys glorified opinion.
 

speedstrength

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2008
1,575
590
113
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7263814/

This was one of the studies cited in the Med Hypothesis

From the findings:

Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty). Eye protection also was associated with less infection (n=3713; aOR 0·22, 95% CI 0·12 to 0·39, RD −10·6%, 95% CI −12·5 to −7·7; low certainty). Unadjusted studies and subgroup and sensitivity analyses showed similar findings.

so he cites an actual study that says face mask and eye protection are effective but he says the opposite in his own paper
 

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7263814/

This was one of the studies cited in the Med Hypothesis

From the findings:

Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty). Eye protection also was associated with less infection (n=3713; aOR 0·22, 95% CI 0·12 to 0·39, RD −10·6%, 95% CI −12·5 to −7·7; low certainty). Unadjusted studies and subgroup and sensitivity analyses showed similar findings.

so he cites an actual study that says face mask and eye protection are effective but he says the opposite in his own paper

You have to look further. The study you cite above is one of many that he cites to illustrate the conflicting information that exists in the literature. He's not using this study to support his hypothesis but is merely showing the reader other relevant studies that exist on the subject he's studying. He later proves with science and data how these studies don't hold any water. It's his opinion for sure but he's by no means just shooting from the hip.

See below narrative in response to the study you mentioned:

"In early publication the WHO stated that “facemasks are not required, as no evidence is available on its usefulness to protect non-sick persons” [14]. In the same publication, the WHO declared that “cloth (e.g. cotton or gauze) masks are not recommended under any circumstance” [14]. Conversely, in later publication the WHO stated that the usage of fabric-made facemasks (Polypropylene, Cotton, Polyester, Cellulose, Gauze and Silk) is a general community practice for “preventing the infected wearer transmitting the virus to others and/or to offer protection to the healthy wearer against infection (prevention)” [2]. The same publication further conflicted itself by stating that due to the lower filtration, breathability and overall performance of fabric facemasks, the usage of woven fabric mask such as cloth, and/or non-woven fabrics, should only be considered for infected persons and not for prevention practice in asymptomatic individuals [2]. The Central for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) made similar recommendation, stating that only symptomatic persons should consider wearing facemask, while for asymptomatic individuals this practice is not recommended [31]. Consistent with the CDC, clinical scientists from Departments of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology in Australia counsel against facemasks usage for health-care workers, arguing that there is no justification for such practice while normal caring relationship between patients and medical staff could be compromised [32]. Moreover, the WHO repeatedly announced that “at present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19) on the effectiveness face masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection of respiratory viruses, including COVID-19”[2]. Despite these controversies, the potential harms and risks of wearing facemasks were clearly acknowledged. These including self-contamination due to hand practice or non-replaced when the mask is wet, soiled or damaged, development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne and psychological discomfort. Vulnerable populations such as people with mental health disorders, developmental disabilities, hearing problems, those living in hot and humid environments, children and patients with respiratory conditions are at significant health risk for complications and harm."
 

speedstrength

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2008
1,575
590
113
He later proves with science and data how these studies don't hold any water. It's his opinion for sure but he's by no means just shooting from the hip.

No he doesn't do that at all. He basically says well theses studies said the opposite of what I think but the studies are wrong and I am right. He doesn't explain how the models are wrong.

Look at the passage you posted. Did you go check the references. You realize that the passage you posted doesn't contain a single citation for a scientific study. Go look

2. World Health Organization. Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19. Geneva, Switzerland; 2020. (Not a peer reviewed study)

14. World Health Organization. Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in health care settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) outbreak. Geneva, Switzerland; 2020. (Not a peer reivewed study)

31. Center for Disease Control and Prevention. Implementation of Mitigation Strategies for Communities with Local COVID-19 Transmission. Atlanta, Georgia; 2020. (Not a peer reviewed study.)

32. Isaacs D., Britton P., Howard-Jones A., Kesson A., Khatami A., Marais B. Do facemasks protect against COVID-19? J Paediatr Child Health. 2020;56:976–977 ( A 2 page summary of other meta analysis cited in the study, can we say reference padding to make it look like I did more work than I actually did. Not to mention that he cites several exericse physiology text books.)

There is a reason no one picked this thing up. The author is an exercise physiologist with no experience or expertise in infectious disease. He is lead author on studies in idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. I don't see anything about epidemiological modeling or infectious disease in his list of publications or his CV. People who actually study this stuff would shred this paper.
 

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio
No he doesn't do that at all. He basically says well theses studies said the opposite of what I think but the studies are wrong and I am right. He doesn't explain how the models are wrong.

Look at the passage you posted. Did you go check the references. You realize that the passage you posted doesn't contain a single citation for a scientific study. Go look

2. World Health Organization. Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19. Geneva, Switzerland; 2020. (Not a peer reviewed study)

14. World Health Organization. Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in health care settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) outbreak. Geneva, Switzerland; 2020. (Not a peer reivewed study)

31. Center for Disease Control and Prevention. Implementation of Mitigation Strategies for Communities with Local COVID-19 Transmission. Atlanta, Georgia; 2020. (Not a peer reviewed study.)

32. Isaacs D., Britton P., Howard-Jones A., Kesson A., Khatami A., Marais B. Do facemasks protect against COVID-19? J Paediatr Child Health. 2020;56:976–977 ( A 2 page summary of other meta analysis cited in the study, can we say reference padding to make it look like I did more work than I actually did. Not to mention that he cites several exericse physiology text books.)

There is a reason no one picked this thing up. The author is an exercise physiologist with no experience or expertise in infectious disease. He is lead author on studies in idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. I don't see anything about epidemiological modeling or infectious disease in his list of publications or his CV. People who actually study this stuff would shred this paper.
He cited a lot of people who do actually study this issue and they appear to support his hypothesis. He studies data for a living as a clinician and lays it out clearly and convincingly that we should question the efficacy of wearing masks.

People are wearing masks to prevent the spread of a virus that is up to 1,000 times smaller than the holes in the mask. That makes about as much sense as putting up a chain-link fence to keep mosquitoes out.

Please feel free to share any studies or hypotheses that show clear and convincing data to support the efficacy of wearing masks. I assume that you believe masks work to help prevent the spread of Covid.
 

Belldozer1

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2014
7,490
2,810
113
Regardless of who is right or wrong the straight up fact is Biden has used Covid as a fear tactic and continues to use masking and lockdowns as a form of control.
Now on to the Chauvin trial. Firstly, Biden, Harris, Obama should keep their racebaiting rhetoric to themselves, let the legal process play out without them trying to influence a decision.

having said that imo when you do what Chauvin did all bets are off. The optics of the whole knee on the neck for 10 minutes all the while knowing he was being filmed was crazy. This does not take away from the fact that Floyd was a low rent individual who I believe contributed to his own death by overdosing on drugs, I know some of you libs totally discount that part.

As to the U.S. Turning into a fear state with the constant threats of burning, looting etc. if BLM and the like don’t get catered to and get what they feel is the favorable outcome, facts be damned, need to be harshly dealt with. Send in the military riding’ and whoopin’ to restore order.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: oldhorn2

speedstrength

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2008
1,575
590
113
He cited a lot of people who do actually study this issue and they appear to support his hypothesis.
No he didn't do that. Only 4 of the 67 citations involve the effectiveness of mask wearing and the spread of COVID-19. All 4 of those articles report that mask wearing does in fact help prevent the spread of the virus. I don't know where these other people are.

He studies data for a living as a clinician and lays it out clearly and convincingly that we should question the efficacy of wearing masks

No he doesn't do that. He is not an expert in the field and he makes claims that are contrary to the research literature and are contrary to what the experts in the field have published in peer reviewed journals. This was a theoretical article that was posted in a non-peer reviewed journal.

I study data for a living and I teach stats classes at the undergraduate level and research methods at the graduate level. That doesn't mean an I am expert in other fields. My research focuses motor learning and motor development of children with autism. That doesn't mean I am also an expert and can publish articles about language development or neurobiology of children with autism just because I play in the same space. I would get destroyed during the review process.

This dude is a clinical exercise physiologist who works in the cardiology division of US Vetrans Affairs Palo Alto Health systems with is affiliated with Stanford. He is not a Stanford University researcher. He published a non peer reviewed theoretical article that doesn't have any peer reviewed papers to back up his claims. There is a reason no one picked up this article. It is junk science. Even the peer reviewed stuides cited by the papers say mask work.
 

weevilcatch

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2003
19,849
2,282
113
Couldn't cut it in the Mexican Leagues
No he didn't do that. Only 4 of the 67 citations involve the effectiveness of mask wearing and the spread of COVID-19. All 4 of those articles report that mask wearing does in fact help prevent the spread of the virus. I don't know where these other people are.



No he doesn't do that. He is not an expert in the field and he makes claims that are contrary to the research literature and are contrary to what the experts in the field have published in peer reviewed journals. This was a theoretical article that was posted in a non-peer reviewed journal.

I study data for a living and I teach stats classes at the undergraduate level and research methods at the graduate level. That doesn't mean an I am expert in other fields. My research focuses motor learning and motor development of children with autism. That doesn't mean I am also an expert and can publish articles about language development or neurobiology of children with autism just because I play in the same space. I would get destroyed during the review process.

This dude is a clinical exercise physiologist who works in the cardiology division of US Vetrans Affairs Palo Alto Health systems with is affiliated with Stanford. He is not a Stanford University researcher. He published a non peer reviewed theoretical article that doesn't have any peer reviewed papers to back up his claims. There is a reason no one picked up this article. It is junk science. Even the peer reviewed stuides cited by the papers say mask work.


Do masks work if you don't wear them 24/7?
What if you have infection already and wear a mask? Is it still better?
Should you throw one up after working out and breathing heavy? Does that have any alternative effect?
Wearing a mask to your table at a restaurant and then taking it off whilst sitting...that seems silly to me. What percentage of sickness does that prevent?

I wear a mask and goggles when I mow the yard because I don't want allergens and what not to rock my sinuses. I say that so you know those questions above are legitimate, not sarcasm. You seem to know quite a bit about the mask thing vs. viruses, etc. Genuinely curious.
 

2300 Nueces

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2015
3,595
2,041
113
I routinely clean my own houses under contruction. I wear a n95 mask when sweeping sheetrock, dust, etc... They don't work. I still have to use half a bottle of saline solution to get that crap out of my nose.
 

Belldozer1

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2014
7,490
2,810
113
I routinely clean my own houses under contruction. I wear a n95 mask when sweeping sheetrock, dust, etc... They don't work. I still have to use half a bottle of saline solution to get that crap out of my nose.
And I would venture to guess the Covid virus is much smaller than a dust particle
 

Belldozer1

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2014
7,490
2,810
113
Do masks work if you don't wear them 24/7?
What if you have infection already and wear a mask? Is it still better?
Should you throw one up after working out and breathing heavy? Does that have any alternative effect?
Wearing a mask to your table at a restaurant and then taking it off whilst sitting...that seems silly to me. What percentage of sickness does that prevent?

I wear a mask and goggles when I mow the yard because I don't want allergens and what not to rock my sinuses. I say that so you know those questions above are legitimate, not sarcasm. You seem to know quite a bit about the mask thing vs. viruses, etc. Genuinely curious.
Ive never understood the whole silly restaurant scenario either. Yes you take off your mask when sitting at your table but then the waitress come to take your order and she gets covid particulates all over herself and spreads it from table to table.

And if covid is as infectious as they say and you carry it on your clothing it seems to me everyday when you get home and change your clothing you are constantly reinfecting yourself and everyone in your household by simply breathing while handling your clothing you’ve worn out in public.

As you can see the chances of exposure and infection are endless in the minds of those with agendas detrimental to the US thriving
 
Last edited:

DHHorn

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2014
1,664
1,293
113
I routinely clean my own houses under contruction. I wear a n95 mask when sweeping sheetrock, dust, etc... They don't work. I still have to use half a bottle of saline solution to get that crap out of my nose.

Do it without a mask and see how much you breathe in. No one claims that masks keep all particles out. They do prevent your spit from spraying out into the room though. I can say that and also be against mask mandates.
 

JDCPAgolferHorn

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2020
491
567
93
Do masks work if you don't wear them 24/7?
What if you have infection already and wear a mask? Is it still better?
Should you throw one up after working out and breathing heavy? Does that have any alternative effect?
Wearing a mask to your table at a restaurant and then taking it off whilst sitting...that seems silly to me. What percentage of sickness does that prevent?

I wear a mask and goggles when I mow the yard because I don't want allergens and what not to rock my sinuses. I say that so you know those questions above are legitimate, not sarcasm. You seem to know quite a bit about the mask thing vs. viruses, etc. Genuinely curious.
Valid questions. After I’ve worn a mask nonstop for 3-5 hours such as for a plane trip, I begin to get a headache. Is it because I’m breathing in my own C02? As soon as I take it off, my headache miraculously disappears.
 
  • Like
Reactions: weevilcatch

2300 Nueces

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2015
3,595
2,041
113
Do it without a mask and see how much you breathe in. No one claims that masks keep all particles out. They do prevent your spit from spraying out into the room though. I can say that and also be against mask mandates.

Ok, preventing infection from leaving the face is not how this is being sold. It's all about preventing others from infecting the mask wearer. And yes, I have done the same work without the mask because I can't breathe in the ****ing things, so there's your answer.
 

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio
No he didn't do that. Only 4 of the 67 citations involve the effectiveness of mask wearing and the spread of COVID-19. All 4 of those articles report that mask wearing does in fact help prevent the spread of the virus. I don't know where these other people are.



No he doesn't do that. He is not an expert in the field and he makes claims that are contrary to the research literature and are contrary to what the experts in the field have published in peer reviewed journals. This was a theoretical article that was posted in a non-peer reviewed journal.

I study data for a living and I teach stats classes at the undergraduate level and research methods at the graduate level. That doesn't mean an I am expert in other fields. My research focuses motor learning and motor development of children with autism. That doesn't mean I am also an expert and can publish articles about language development or neurobiology of children with autism just because I play in the same space. I would get destroyed during the review process.

This dude is a clinical exercise physiologist who works in the cardiology division of US Vetrans Affairs Palo Alto Health systems with is affiliated with Stanford. He is not a Stanford University researcher. He published a non peer reviewed theoretical article that doesn't have any peer reviewed papers to back up his claims. There is a reason no one picked up this article. It is junk science. Even the peer reviewed stuides cited by the papers say mask work.
I believe the premise of his hypothesis which is that masks are ineffective. He makes a very sound and well reasoned case. His expertise may be in a different area but his experience studying medical data carries weight for me. I’m not a football expert by training but I’ve been watching and studying football long enough to know when I see a bad coaching decision or a bad decision by a player. This is no different.

I’m still open to reviewing any other hypotheses that support that masks actually do work when it comes to stopping the spread of COVID. To me, this issue is primarily about government control of people’s freedoms. There’s no basis in science for any of this.

We can agree to disagree on this one.
 

DHHorn

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2014
1,664
1,293
113
Ok, preventing infection from leaving the face is not how this is being sold. It's all about preventing others from infecting the mask wearer. And yes, I have done the same work without the mask because I can't breathe in the ****ing things, so there's your answer.

You need to get a respirator for that sh!t.
 

DHHorn

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2014
1,664
1,293
113
So if Covid is so deadly and highly contagious, then why aren't people required to dispose of used masks in safe, biohazard containers?
Viruses need a host to survive, when outside the body they die quickly, especially respiratory ones. Also, don't give them any ideas. They are perfectly capable of thinking up worthless measures on their own.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: GuaranteedFresh!

oldhorn2

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2013
5,208
3,919
113
all I know is that in one corner we have a scientist(speedstrength) and in the other we have.....uh....the other debater.
 

Drtxhorn

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2016
440
642
93
San Antonio
all I know is that in one corner we have a scientist(speedstrength) and in the other we have.....uh....the other debater.
Do you believe that masks are effective in stopping the spread of COVID? I haven’t seen anything scientific that supports that proposition.
 

DrinkToIt

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2006
1,018
674
113
I routinely clean my own houses under contruction. I wear a n95 mask when sweeping sheetrock, dust, etc... They don't work. I still have to use half a bottle of saline solution to get that crap out of my nose.

Shut up you plebe. You and your anecdotes!
 

oldhorn2

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2013
5,208
3,919
113
I dont know shit from shinola about masks....but I know I cannot debate Speedstrength about any subject scientific without getting my ass handed to me....and I am smart as hell....
 

clob94

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2014
11,934
9,759
113
The vast majority if masks worn during this past year had little effectiveness. Just use common sense. Yes, expensive masks with filtration devices have a greater level of protectiin-- but your Under Armor baklava that you wore doesn't do sh!t. It's like saying a chain link fence will stop mosquitos. Ya-- I'm sure a few of them flew into the wires......
 

GuaranteedFresh!

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2010
2,537
1,514
113
lets see....piss is sterile....the purpose of masks is to negate germs and bad bacteria.....hmmmm.....you may be on to something here....
That's one way to make damn sure everyone stays 6ft away from others. Texas heat + piss soaked masks = zero public shopping for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldhorn2

oldhorn2

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2013
5,208
3,919
113
that last part tells you all you need to know about my powers of reasoning....


Also....when someone says "I am smart"....or I am in control"....you have to take into account that this is purely self assessed


also...when you asked..."are you sure about the last part?"...I can say absolutely!....but had you asked..."is that accurate?" I may have had to say....uhhhh....maybe...
 

DHHorn

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2014
1,664
1,293
113
Yes, I saw it. Not surprised. What could go wrong? Why do we need this sort of thing except that bezos thinks he is some kind of genius. We are going to have to ban machetes because of the hand hacking that's about to take place.

Wow