Question for Clob

[mm42]

Clob
Question for you about Malik Jefferson, who is a hell of a player. I think the answer is that I had a false perception of him as a player when recruited. You know the game better than I do, so wanted your opinion or anyone else's with more knowledge than me.
Was Malik ever considered an edge rush guy, or was he always considered more of a side line to side line ILB? In my mind if your are the #1 player in Texas and a LB, you are likely a rush edge guy. That false perception is probably the answer. Anyway, I think you guys would look a lot better on the back end with a big time pass rusher (who wouldn't). Is he just not that kind of player, or am I nuts for thinking he should be coming off the end.

Would love to get insight from someone who has played at this level, or has a coaching background. Thanks

 

[oldhorn2]

passive aggressive at it's finest.

 

[clob94]

Clob is driving back from Lake Jackson.

 

[GORME]

Clob is driving back from Lake Jackson.

Mosquito Disney World.

 

[mm42]

passive aggressive at it's finest.

Didn't mean to come off that way. I think Jefferson is an absolute stud, who will likely play in league for a decade and make millions of dollars. Not asking if he can play, just what kind of player he is.
I think the 2 best LB'S today are Luke Kuechly and Von Miller. Which is better is debatable imo. They are both big and fast, they both are considered linebackers, but they play wildly different positions in my view. Kuechly is a tackling machine and very good dropping into his zone. Miller is an edge rusher, and isn't asked to due much else but set the edge.
I don't have the knowledge to truly understand why one big fast guy is a Kuechly type and another is a Miller type. This is not a shot at Jefferson at all. Just didn't know if he was playing in the middle because that is who he is, or where he is needed. Truly don't know.

 

[clob94]

If texas needed an enima.... Lake jackson used to be where you'd insert the nozzle. It's actually not as bad as it used to be.

 

[DHHorn]

I see him coming off the edge all the time. As well as the middle and drops in coverage. Versatile is how I would describe him.

 

[Bwilk55]

Didn't mean to come off that way. I think Jefferson is an absolute stud, who will likely play in league for a decade and make millions of dollars. Not asking if he can play, just what kind of player he is.
I think the 2 best LB'S today are Luke Kuechly and Von Miller. Which is better is debatable imo. They are both big and fast, they both are considered linebackers, but they play wildly different positions in my view. Kuechly is a tackling machine and very good dropping into his zone. Miller is an edge rusher, and isn't asked to due much else but set the edge.
I don't have the knowledge to truly understand why one big fast guy is a Kuechly type and another is a Miller type. This is not a shot at Jefferson at all. Just didn't know if he was playing in the middle because that is who he is, or where he is needed. Truly don't know.

I think it's a valid question and the misperception is one a lot of Texas fans had about MJ. He has had some success coming off the edge but he seems to be a much better player in space, patrolling the middle and tracking and smacking. Our better stand up players coming off the edge some to be Breckyn Hager and Malcolm Roach.

 

[salado_horn]

I would put Roach in the middle. Malik on the outside and use his speed.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

It's hard to say, he is a perfect pass rusher coming off the edge, however, in this defense Middle linebacker needs to be the best player on the defense. This defense is setup to allow the MLB to do a lot of things and move around a lot. I think that is the main reason we are playing him there.

 

[clob94]

IMHO he's a tweener. Remember Jesse Armstead? He's got that sort of speed. He doesn't have Derrick Thomas style pass rush technique. Honestly, I'd like to see him dialed up on zone blitzes and sent between tackle and guard. He needs space to be effective. He also has awesome backside pursuit.

 

[RoboCocks21]

Didn't mean to come off that way. I think Jefferson is an absolute stud, who will likely play in league for a decade and make millions of dollars. Not asking if he can play, just what kind of player he is.
I think the 2 best LB'S today are Luke Kuechly and Von Miller. Which is better is debatable imo. They are both big and fast, they both are considered linebackers, but they play wildly different positions in my view. Kuechly is a tackling machine and very good dropping into his zone. Miller is an edge rusher, and isn't asked to due much else but set the edge.
I don't have the knowledge to truly understand why one big fast guy is a Kuechly type and another is a Miller type. This is not a shot at Jefferson at all. Just didn't know if he was playing in the middle because that is who he is, or where he is needed. Truly don't know.

Do you say Von Miller cause he is an aggy? Probably so but I do agree with Luke but you are also forgetting DJ ex longhorn by the way and Bowman, Wagner, Freeman, Marshall yes plays on the same team as Miller. The list goes on on and on

 

[mm42]

Do you say Von Miller cause he is an aggy? Probably so but I do agree with Luke but you are also forgetting DJ ex longhorn by the way and Bowman, Wagner, Freeman, Marshall yes plays on the same team as Miller. The list goes on on and on

I felt weird using an Aggie in my example, but I couldn't think of a edge rush linebacker as good as him right now. Also, I don't believe any of the guys you listed are edge rushers . The only guy I can think of might be Houston from Kansas City or Clay Matthews (who i think is overrated big time).

 

[mm42]

IMHO he's a tweener. Remember Jesse Armstead? He's got that sort of speed. He doesn't have Derrick Thomas style pass rush technique. Honestly, I'd like to see him dialed up on zone blitzes and sent between tackle and guard. He needs space to be effective. He also has awesome backside pursuit.

Jesse Armstead was the kid from Carter that went to Miami, if I'm thinking of the right guy. He was good.
I appreciate the responses from several guys. Seems he like their is agreement on him being in the right position. His speed just seems to be what makes him good. Armstead is probably a pretty could comparison , but I think Jefferson is probably bigger.

 

[lupar_horns]

If texas needed an enima.... Lake jackson used to be where you'd insert the nozzle. It's actually not as bad as it used to be.

My entire extended family is from Sweeny/Old Ocean/West Columbia area. Many of my Aunts/Uncles/Cousins still live in the area, some in Lake Jackson. Hot, humid, lots of mosquitoes...however, I miss going down as often as I did when my grandparents were still with us.

 

[bubba2023]

I'm no expert, but I haven't been impressed when he's rushing the passer. Most is his great plays are made in space. He isn't giving any OL nightmares. Maybe he's just young and doesn't have the technique yet, or maybe I am an idiot. Probably both.

 

[diadevic]

I felt weird using an Aggie in my example, but I couldn't think of a edge rush linebacker as good as him right now. Also, I don't believe any of the guys you listed are edge rushers . The only guy I can think of might be Houston from Kansas City or Clay Matthews (who i think is overrated big time).

I hate the Aggies. But Von Miller is a stud. He may be a one trick pony, but that trick is pretty dang good.

 

[CoachEmUp64]

I'm no expert, but I haven't been impressed when he's rushing the passer. Most is his great plays are made in space. He isn't giving any OL nightmares. Maybe he's just young and doesn't have the technique yet, or maybe I am an idiot. Probably both.

When he's lined up outside the OL is calling protection strength to his side. Opposing offense's are accounting for where he's lined up almost every play. They have obviously done their homework which is why he isn't having the success like last year so far this season.

He'll get his tho. He's that type of player

 

[HornsRuleU]

i
(I'm not Clob, but...)
Even if you have the same measurables, that doesn't mean you can line up in the same place and do the same things. A lot depends on what's between the ears, in terms of smarts and knowledge.

An OLB doesn't have as many responsibilities as a ILB, especially on the weak side in a 3-4. You have to get to the passer, and set the edge / keep contain (including on options). Will has to shoot backside gaps. Like the DE, he's got to be able to bend around tackles, get free from the OT and/or TE (if Sam-side), and keep that outside hand free. They need good counter moves, both with hands and legs, to counter blockers. In some defenses, Sam LB needs to be able to cover the TE (something Von Miller isn't fantastic at -- which isn't much). The Will LB needs speed, more than any other LB. Both Sam and Will backers, and DEs in a 4-3, need especially good arm length to fight off blocks, keep contain, bat down passes, etc.

An explosive first step and super fast decision-making are crucial for any edge rusher. Focus. Beat your blocker, and then it's go for the sack or bat it down or do you have contain? The Mike LB has more to consider, but the Will LB (and Sam LB), especially, needs to be able to focus on those decisions and make them in a flash. Boom, boom, boom! (and it's over)

An ILB / MLB is central and on his feet, high. So he sees more and therefore communicates more. The "Mike" LB is the "QB" of the D. He has to know everyone's job, and not just his own. He ensures that everyone is set up right, particularly the front "7". He's got to plug gaps in the middle, especially, and yet be able to extend wide plays to the horizon. So, yeah, the Mike needs to be a sideline-to-sideline tackler. He needs to be in on the tackle, somehow, on most running plays. Which gaps he has primary responsibility for -- A or B -- depend not only on 3-4 vs. 4-3, but on style and call. One 3-4 is not the same as another coach's 3-4, in other words. ILBs have to have good hips, able to change directions quickly. Think 3-cone drill and 20 yard shuttle. Vertical leap is also important. He may be blitzing, but not as often as OLBs. More often, on pass plays, he's dropping back into coverage, trying to cut off routes, disrupt catches and stop catching WRs in their tracks. Kuechly does it all, of course, but he excels at pass coverage.

Obviously, both positions tackle the ball carrier. Both need to be able to "take angles" when the play goes away from them, in run support, although the trailing DE and OLB need to clean up any reverses and cut back runs. The ILB is far more likely to be able to run down people on explosive plays, as we've sadly had to keep seeing Malik do (no matter where he lines up).

Clob and others can correct or add to the above, maybe.

 

[mm42]

i
(I'm not Clob, but...)
Even if you have the same measurables, that doesn't mean you can line up in the same place and do the same things. A lot depends on what's between the ears, in terms of smarts and knowledge.

An OLB doesn't have as many responsibilities as a ILB, especially on the weak side in a 3-4. You have to get to the passer, and set the edge / keep contain (including on options). Will has to shoot backside gaps. Like the DE, he's got to be able to bend around tackles, get free from the OT and/or TE (if Sam-side), and keep that outside hand free. They need good counter moves, both with hands and legs, to counter blockers. In some defenses, Sam LB needs to be able to cover the TE (something Von Miller isn't fantastic at -- which isn't much). The Will LB needs speed, more than any other LB. Both Sam and Will backers, and DEs in a 4-3, need especially good arm length to fight off blocks, keep contain, bat down passes, etc.

An explosive first step and super fast decision-making are crucial for any edge rusher. Focus. Beat your blocker, and then it's go for the sack or bat it down or do you have contain? The Mike LB has more to consider, but the Will LB (and Sam LB), especially, needs to be able to focus on those decisions and make them in a flash. Boom, boom, boom! (and it's over)

An ILB / MLB is central and on his feet, high. So he sees more and therefore communicates more. The "Mike" LB is the "QB" of the D. He has to know everyone's job, and not just his own. He ensures that everyone is set up right, particularly the front "7". He's got to plug gaps in the middle, especially, and yet be able to extend wide plays to the horizon. So, yeah, the Mike needs to be a sideline-to-sideline tackler. He needs to be in on the tackle, somehow, on most running plays. Which gaps he has primary responsibility for -- A or B -- depend not only on 3-4 vs. 4-3, but on style and call. One 3-4 is not the same as another coach's 3-4, in other words. ILBs have to have good hips, able to change directions quickly. Think 3-cone drill and 20 yard shuttle. Vertical leap is also important. He may be blitzing, but not as often as OLBs. More often, on pass plays, he's dropping back into coverage, trying to cut off routes, disrupt catches and stop catching WRs in their tracks. Kuechly does it all, of course, but he excels at pass coverage.

Obviously, both positions tackle the ball carrier. Both need to be able to "take angles" when the play goes away from them, in run support, although the trailing DE and OLB need to clean up any reverses and cut back runs. The ILB is far more likely to be able to run down people on explosive plays, as we've sadly had to keep seeing Malik do (no matter where he lines up).

Clob and others can correct or add to the above, maybe.

I think what you are saying is right.
My issue was a false narrative in my own mind. I just assumed that the best and fastest LBer prospect in years out of Texas was a pass rusher, as those guys are few and far between. Assuming often leads to being wrong, like me in this case. Last year I just assumed they were putting their best athlete where he was most needed. Not the first or last time I have mislead myself.