Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (OU just doesn't matter as much any more...)

[Ketchum]

That point is valid for 2023 because we ran the table for the rest of Big 12 play and had a chance to win against UW in the playoff. Had the remainder of the regular season played out differently, the narrative about a diminished ou game wouldn’t be a topic right now. @Ketchum seems to forget that Texas was sitting 6th or 7th in the CFP rankings heading into CCG precisely because of the ou loss. The team took care of business and the loss didn’t keep us out of the CFP, but that was hardly assured right up until the time the final rankings were announced.

This has been an interesting thread, and ultimately I look at it this way. Last year was so much fun and the team met if not exceeded expectations. Because of that, the loss to ou was somewhat discounted in the final analysis. I’m not willing to go out on a limb and conclude that means Red River won’t be as important going forward. Nor am I willing to project the type of improvement for Aggy that is implicit in Ketch’s original post. Elko may be the guy to harness their talent and get them going in the right direction, but that’s nothing more than speculation right now. But it makes for excellent offseason debate and a 12-page thread and counting. Cheers. 😎

Last year's example is just a small piece/later of the overall point.

Look at the Ohio State/Michigan game. In the last few years, that hame has sent the winner into the playoff and the loser into a place where the season feels a little like a failure.

Moving forward, the winner and the loser of a game between 1-loss or undefeated teams won't result in the same situation because both teams will/would make the playoff.

It makes the stakes of that game lower. It doesn't quite mean as much as it meant as recent as the last two years.

It doesn't mean that the two teams hate each other less. It doesn't make the game meaningless. Iy just means that it means less.

This is a situation true across college football.

 

[Ketchum]

DKR was hired and given the mission of beating Oklahoma. That was in 1957.

Ok?

 

[Sark2Texas]

The A&M game has the mist significance.

Then how is UGA number 1? It doesn’t make sense. One of them has to have the top spot, it can’t be both. It’s obviously UGA

 

[Ketchum]

Then how is UGA number 1? It doesn’t make sense. One of them has to have the top spot, it can’t be both. It’s obviously UGA

They are different games with different stakes involved.

 

[streettopeschel]

Ok?

The series meant something before Mack and Stoops.

I’m of the era when ou, aggy and Arkansas all meant something. And whoever beat you last year or years, meant even more.

 

[streettopeschel]

Of course, but the weight of the rivalry increased in the 2000s, right?

Compared to the mid 70s-80s? It was pretty serious shit then.

 

[Ketchum]

The series meant something before Mack and Stoops.

I’m of the era when ou, aggy and Arkansas all meant something. And whoever beat you last year or years, meant even more.

Of course, but it changed in the mid 80s and 90s... changed again in the 2000s.

 

[Ketchum]

Compared to the mid 70s-80s? It was pretty serious shit then.

Compared to the time frame when A&M started dominating Texas.

 

[streettopeschel]

Compared to the time frame when A&M started dominating Texas.

Since I’m still here, I lived that too.

77 ou, 89 ou, 90 aggy, 95 aggy, 05 ou.

They each have significance as streak busters and were all huge in their time.

 

[Ketchum]

Since I’m still here, I lived that too.

77 ou, 89 ou, 90 aggy, 95 aggy, 05 ou.

They each have significance as streak busters and were all huge in their time.

Which game were Texas fans most obsessed with in the 90s?

 

[streettopeschel]

Which game were Texas fans most obsessed with in the 90s?

Maybe I missed your point. Is this limited to a discussion of the 90’s? If so what does that have to do with 2024?

 

[shull]

This is hilarious. Ou will never become Nebraska - too close to dfw.

And Nebraska was supposed to benefit by joining the Big 10. We know how that turned out. The SEC is all downside for OU. They are not one of 2 elite programs, but one of many in a charmless place at the edge of the SEC.
Texas kids looking to get out of state will have multiple great SEC options.

 

[Sark2Texas]

They are different games with different stakes involved.

Ya but UGA is the most important by far.

 

[Black Scholes]

If the Longhorns make the playoffs, it won't matter.

Matters to me.

 

[Ketchum]

Maybe I missed your point. Is this limited to a discussion of the 90’s? If so what does that have to do with 2024?

The point is this is a game that has seen ebbs and flows when it comes to the weight of it in conjunction with the primary needs/aspirations of the program.

In the 90s, the game wasn't nearly as important when I was at Texas as the A&M game.

 

[Ketchum]

Ya but UGA is the most important by far.

That's debatable.

 

[Ketchum]

Matters to me.

To what end?

 

[Sark2Texas]

That's debatable.

One has MUCH larger implications.

 

[Ketchum]

One has MUCH larger implications.

You are correct, but not like you think you are.

 

[CHastings]

It feels weird to talk about a game like TX/OU not mattering as much, but it will be a part of adjusting to the SEC for these fan bases. Think about it, name a rivalry in the Big 12 bigger than RRR. You can't. And it was so important to the conference race. Name a rivalry bigger than RRR in the SEC. Multiple come to mind. There are few things in college football that can cast a shadow on UT and OU. I would argue Bama, UGA, and the SEC itself absolutely do. After the game in Dallas, Texas gets UGA at home the next week, and OU hosts Bama in November. The winner AND loser of RRR might not matter by season's end. When's the last time we could say that?

 

[Charlie Work]

Yes, because there are layers of reasons that make this so.

i get the layers, but, had we been left out of the playoffs I think the narrative would have been much more of a "all roads still lead through Dallas" because even with a 12 team playoff a loss to ou leaves Texas in a precarious position if they stumble down the stretch.

btw, I do agree with your larger point that ou is no longer Orangeblood Enemy # 1...

.

 

[Sark2Texas]

You are correct, but not like you think you are.

I see where you’re going but I still don’t think it’s a bigger game. Sure there are recruiting implications and both fan bases WANT that win. However, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think it matters much, unless Elko is the guy to turn it around for them. I don’t think he is.

 

[Ketchum]

i get the layers, but, had we been left out of the playoffs I think the narrative would have been much more of a "all roads still lead through Dallas" because even with a 12 team playoff a loss to ou leaves Texas in a precarious position if they stumble down the stretch.

btw, I do agree with your larger point that ou is no longer Orangeblood Enemy # 1...

.

Texas still would have been Big 12 champion, even if left out of the playoffs.

 

[Ketchum]

I see where you’re going but I still don’t think it’s a bigger game. Sure there are recruiting implications and both fan bases WANT that win. However, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think it matters much, unless Elko is the guy to turn it around for them. I don’t think he is.

It reminds me of the scene in Rocky IV when Rocky is trying to tell Apollo that the fight with him and Drago is just an exhibition match.

Apollo tells him that he might not get it now, but he will when it's over.

 

[BrobaFapp]

It reminds me of the scene in Rocky IV when Rocky is trying to tell Apollo that the fight with him and Drago is just an exhibition match.

Apollo tells him that he might not get it now, but he will when it's over.

hey I know you probably get a ton of DMs. I sent you one I need your help with if possible.

 

[Sark2Texas]

It reminds me of the scene in Rocky IV when Rocky is trying to tell Apollo that the fight with him and Drago is just an exhibition match.

Apollo tells him that he might not get it now, but he will when it's over.

Maybe, but I’m not so sure given it will be a consistently played game.

 

[7 Day Free Pass]

Last year's example is just a small piece/later of the overall point.

Look at the Ohio State/Michigan game. In the last few years, that hame has sent the winner into the playoff and the loser into a place where the season feels a little like a failure.

Moving forward, the winner and the loser of a game between 1-loss or undefeated teams won't result in the same situation because both teams will/would make the playoff.

It makes the stakes of that game lower. It doesn't quite mean as much as it meant as recent as the last two years.

It doesn't mean that the two teams hate each other less. It doesn't make the game meaningless. Iy just means that it means less.

This is a situation true across college football.

The 12 team CFP moves the cut line lower, and in doing so lessens the relevance? of late season matchups between undefeated or 1-loss teams. Everyone recognizes that, which is why there's been ongoing discussion of discontinuing conference championship games.

But Texas has had exactly 5 seasons with only one conference loss since the inception of the Big 12 in 1996. in each of those seasons, the single loss was to ou, not aggy. Tack on the two undefeated regular seasons of 2005 and 2009 and the Texas has found itself in a position where a rivalry matchup would have less meaning under the expanded CFP a whopping 25 percent of the time.

I love everything about our current trajectory and the incredible job Sark has done across nearly aspect of the program. But there is no evidence based on the relatively similar current postures of ou and aggy to suggest one rivalry game relative to the other has lesser (or greater) importance going forward. Rather, the more likely long term effect of Texas moving into a much more difficult conference is that all of our rivalry games - ou, aggy, piggy - actually increase in importance because having 1 or 2 losses in conference play would put us at or near the cut line.

The good thing is the games will be played and all of these various hypotheses will get tested against actual results.

 

[Ketchum]

hey I know you probably get a ton of DMs. I sent you one I need your help with if possible.

On it.

 

[Ketchum]

Maybe, but I’m not so sure given it will be a consistently played game.

So might the UGA game.

 

[Ketchum]

The 12 team CFP moves the cut line lower, and in doing so lessens the relevance? of late season matchups between undefeated or 1-loss teams. Everyone recognizes that, which is why there's been ongoing discussion of discontinuing conference championship games.

But Texas has had exactly 5 seasons with only one conference loss since the inception of the Big 12 in 1996. in each of those seasons, the single loss was to ou, not aggy. Tack on the two undefeated regular seasons of 2005 and 2009 and the Texas has found itself in a position where a rivalry matchup would have less meaning under the expanded CFP a whopping 25 percent of the time.

I love everything about our current trajectory and the incredible job Sark has done across nearly aspect of the program. But there is no evidence based on the relatively similar current postures of ou and aggy to suggest one rivalry game relative to the other has lesser (or greater) importance going forward. Rather, the more likely long term effect of Texas moving into a much more difficult conference is that all of our rivalry games - ou, aggy, piggy - actually increase in importance because having 1 or 2 losses in conference play would put us at or near the cut line.

The good thing is the games will be played and all of these various hypotheses will get tested against actual results.

Not relevance.

Importance.