The rest of the season and the rest of Charlie's time here

[obviouslyZRH]

Forgive me if this is being discussed in another thread, but I didn't see anything.

The Texas football Longhorns are currently 4-4 with 4 (+1?) games remaining. We can speculate all day which final records would result in Coach Strong being fired and which would result in him being kept. Ending 5-7 or losing to Kansas probably results in termination; running the table or going 8-5 with a bowl win would show that he may turn the corner next year, and he remains. But it's the no man's land I'm afraid of. I want to give the man a fair shake in Austin, but unless he shows some solid potential in the next few weeks, I don't have much confidence that a fourth year would be any different.

So does this win against a ranked, undefeated Baylor give you hope that we may finish strong, or does it give you an eerie feeling we're fighting and clawing our way to a mediocre finish and endless offseason debate on the future of our coaching staff?

I also think it's also important to consider the margin of some of these losses: last year, 3 of our 7 losses were by 3 or less points. This year, we've lost by 7, 18, 5, and 3 points. We could easily be sitting at 5-3, with a 7-5 finish last year, which dramatically changes the conversation.

 

[OldHornInPA]

Always hope. Charlie seems to be a good role model, a good recruiter, a good man. But unexplainable losses keep piling up to counter any big wins. How does one compare the performance against Iowa State and Baylor with losses at K-State and Cal or Okie Sate? 8-5 with a bowl win probably will keep him around for another year. Otherwise, I don't see many alternatives. This is a talented team that can hold their own when they are coached up and ready to play. Otherwise....

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Charlie could win all the rest of the games by 1 point and I'd be happy. We need to learn how to win again this losing crap is annoying. I was happy with the win against Baylor but like OldHorn said it's not consistent and that's what worries me. I don't care about the yards given up as much as I care about the W's.

 

[DC3.0ppg]

AS A COACH, albeit not nearly that level, i can say that young players can make enough mistakes to cause you to lose close games. i'm at peace whether charlie comes back or not-- i get the frustration with some things, but i get the feeling that he deserves another year as the "young" thing won't fly next year.

the best thing that i got from the weekend, aside from the win of course, is that charlie kinda stood up for himself a little. he's been polite about things up to this point; this weekend, he kinda stuck his neck out there. is it possible that that change of public face could be just what the players needed? if they go scorched-earth against tech, and it's in play, then maybe we need to sit back and let things play out a bit.

on a side note, wonder boy is struggling right now. (david shaw and chris peterson are the only calls we should make IF the decision to fire charlie is made)

 

[dtrain87]

Forgive me if this is being discussed in another thread, but I didn't see anything.

The Texas football Longhorns are currently 4-4 with 4 (+1?) games remaining. We can speculate all day which final records would result in Coach Strong being fired and which would result in him being kept. Ending 5-7 or losing to Kansas probably results in termination; running the table or going 8-5 with a bowl win would show that he may turn the corner next year, and he remains. But it's the no man's land I'm afraid of. I want to give the man a fair shake in Austin, but unless he shows some solid potential in the next few weeks, I don't have much confidence that a fourth year would be any different.

So does this win against a ranked, undefeated Baylor give you hope that we may finish strong, or does it give you an eerie feeling we're fighting and clawing our way to a mediocre finish and endless offseason debate on the future of our coaching staff?

I also think it's also important to consider the margin of some of these losses: last year, 3 of our 7 losses were by 3 or less points. This year, we've lost by 7, 18, 5, and 3 points. We could easily be sitting at 5-3, with a 7-5 finish last year, which dramatically changes the conversation.

I picked UT to win. Baylor has less than 70 kids on ships and are playing like a 1AA team with 65 ships play and 85 ship D1 team like Texas. I still don't see any improvement. Baylor didn't pass and that is the Horns weakness, but they did run the ball with two 100 yard rushers. I think UT wins the morning game in Lubbock, because UT plays better vs. these self imposed one dimensional teams, like Tech. I think UT pressures Mahomes, but he lights them up. The good part for Texas is Tech won't try and run and they have no defense, so Hager, Roach, #90 and Jefferson will get their sacks w/o worrying about a running game. Donta Foreman gets consecutive 200 yard games as long as he stays healthy and Texas wins an early morning shootout, IMO. If he can squeak out 8-9 wins, he deserves to come back with all that youth getting the extra bowl practices. I think they can work in the other backs in the bowl, because there is no reason for Foreman to come back. Heisman trophies don't make you first rounders anymore. Zeke was the junior picked in round one, while Heisman winner Derick Henry was a 2nd rounder. Get paid openly for your skills Mr. Foreman.

 

[madcow12]

wins out or time is out...

 

[thedawg27]

We could easily be sitting at 5-3, with a 7-5 finish last year, which dramatically changes the conversation.

and the reason we didn't is because Charlie didn't go hire a special teams coach. Missed extra points and bad punt coverage cost us most of those games last year. That's all on Charlie

 

[dtrain87]

and the reason we didn't is because Charlie didn't go hire a special teams coach. Missed extra points and bad punt coverage cost us most of those games last year. That's all on Charlie

Patterson would not allow him to do much his 2 years here at UT. His defense, though athletic, is not good at all! The fact that his defense is no good at all is the reason he won't get to 8-4 and win out.

 

[horn01]

I'm not here to complain about a win, but to answer your question, i think a few things need to be pointed out:
1. Baylor inexplicably did not test our secondary. Its hard to say if we made a real step forward because the thing we are worst at was not on display.
2. There were some strange decisions in that game. Swoopes coming in at RB seemed desperate, but it really got bad when they brought him out on 4th and one and ran him to the sideline for a six yard loss. The Buchele pooch punt seemed pointless from that position on the field. I won't list them all, I just think this staff is in over their heads too much.
3. Herman has helped Strong as much as he can. He's reminded everyone, esp the admin at Texas, that there is very little history to judge Herman on.
4. If Texas goes 3-1 to finish the season, the admin is in a bad spot. That will mean he has won 4 of 5 and has a chance to finish with 8 wins. At that point in the convo I think you are going to hear "young team" retreaded over and over.
5. If they finish 2-2 or worse I think its over. At 6-6 we'll get to some awful bowl and I doubt the admin will be interested in waiting to see the outcome.

 

[obviouslyZRH]

4. If Texas goes 3-1 to finish the season, the admin is in a bad spot. That will mean he has won 4 of 5 and has a chance to finish with 8 wins. At that point in the convo I think you are going to hear "young team" retreaded over and over.

We've all heard the young team ad nauseum; so much so that I almost want to give Charlie a fourth year just to see if we were duped for the first three years. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but a cumulative losing record over the last three years makes me think he won't be the coach to lead us back to the glory days.

I talked to a friend who is in the keep-Charlie camp with this logic: even if he looks bad in the fourth year, his recruiting success (and assumed continued success next Feb) will at least load up whoever the next coach is. Seems a risky bet to me.

 

[clob94]

We've all heard the young team ad nauseum; so much so that I almost want to give Charlie a fourth year just to see if we were duped for the first three years. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but a cumulative losing record over the last three years makes me think he won't be the coach to lead us back to the glory days.

I talked to a friend who is in the keep-Charlie camp with this logic: even if he looks bad in the fourth year, his recruiting success (and assumed continued success next Feb) will at least load up whoever the next coach is. Seems a risky bet to me.

Of course it's risky. We are ranked what, 57th right now in recruiting and HS kids were expecting to see dramatic improvement this year. I'm betting he does not bang out a top 10 class this year.

 

[ryan_sublett]

I think there is a very real chance Charlie wins out. The defense has gotten better since he took it over. It's not where it needs to be but he wasn't going to change it over night.

If he does win out the move by the boosters and administration will be interesting. The narrative was that Charlie needed to show improvement to get year 4. Well a 3 win improvement and 5 wins in a row(if he won out) would be significant improvement. If Texas fires him at 8-4,your basically saying he didn't have much of a shot at coming back. I'll say this if the powers that be want to move on from Strong that's greet but if he goes 8-4 the pressure I say on the boosters to go get a star. Tom Herrman isn't gonna be enough.

 

[oldhorn2]

you get John Harbaugh and it wont matter about the record this year....if you DONT get John Harbaugh then there might not be much point. There is no real evidence that Herman would do better (dont see how he could coach worse)...Maybe Maltzen or Dabo but if Charlie wins out, or wins 3 more plus a bowl game, then he might be the best answer. I hope ( I really,really hope) he has learned something. His recruiting is stellar, but I want to see some development of those future stars. If there is none, maybe we have to go full out "fan coach of the day"

 

[ryan_sublett]

you get John Harbaugh and it wont matter about the record this year....if you DONT get John Harbaugh then there might not be much point. There is no real evidence that Herman would do better (dont see how he could coach worse)...Maybe Maltzen or Dabo but if Charlie wins out, or wins 3 more plus a bowl game, then he might be the best answer. I hope ( I really,really hope) he has learned something. His recruiting is stellar, but I want to see some development of those future stars. If there is none, maybe we have to go full out "fan coach of the day"

Yeah if Charlie goes 8-4 and the boosters still move on from him there are only a few guys out there where people would say "yeah they did the right thing." And you pretty much named them. I've been on recored if he gets 8 wins he should get year 4. I stand by that. Imo if you weren't going to keep him after 8 wins I'm not sure why he got year 3?

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I'm not here to complain about a win, but to answer your question, i think a few things need to be pointed out:
1. Baylor inexplicably did not test our secondary. Its hard to say if we made a real step forward because the thing we are worst at was not on display.
2. There were some strange decisions in that game. Swoopes coming in at RB seemed desperate, but it really got bad when they brought him out on 4th and one and ran him to the sideline for a six yard loss. The Buchele pooch punt seemed pointless from that position on the field. I won't list them all, I just think this staff is in over their heads too much.
3. Herman has helped Strong as much as he can. He's reminded everyone, esp the admin at Texas, that there is very little history to judge Herman on.
4. If Texas goes 3-1 to finish the season, the admin is in a bad spot. That will mean he has won 4 of 5 and has a chance to finish with 8 wins. At that point in the convo I think you are going to hear "young team" retreaded over and over.
5. If they finish 2-2 or worse I think its over. At 6-6 we'll get to some awful bowl and I doubt the admin will be interested in waiting to see the outcome.

Statistically we shouldn't have won that game. But we did!

 

[dtrain87]

I think there is a very real chance Charlie wins out. The defense has gotten better since he took it over. It's not where it needs to be but he wasn't going to change it over night.

If he does win out the move by the boosters and administration will be interesting. The narrative was that Charlie needed to show improvement to get year 4. Well a 3 win improvement and 5 wins in a row(if he won out) would be significant improvement. If Texas fires him at 8-4,your basically saying he didn't have much of a shot at coming back. I'll say this if the powers that be want to move on from Strong that's greet but if he goes 8-4 the pressure I say on the boosters to go get a star. Tom Herrman isn't gonna be enough.

How is the defense better? The comp has gotten worse, since ISU and KSU are not UND, Cal, OU or OSU. Baylor had 600 yards offense and 300 rushing with only 70 scholarship players and did not try to pass. If that defense was average he would have a good chance to go 8-4, but on the road or vs TCU and WVU you can't bank on that defense.

 

[oldhorn2]

Baylor was ranked 8 with those same 70 scholorship players.Might be they were over rated but they were undefeated to that point. I guess according to you they are gonna lose out

 

[ryan_sublett]

I don't really care about yards given up. Offenses move the bill in college football. That's just the reality. The key to playing good defense in this era is holding the opoenet to FG's and forcing turnovers. Since Strong has taken over we have forced a lot more turnovers. The biggest weakness right now appears to be QBs that run(KSU and Baylor)

 

[dtrain87]

Baylor was ranked 8 with those same 70 scholorship players.Might be they were over rated but they were undefeated to that point. I guess according to you they are gonna lose out

Yes, Baylor might just lose out. I want Strong to get a chance, but he has not come through as of yet, especially on defense.

 

[speedstrength]

Baylor has no depth but they have a ton of Junior/Senior talent and they have managed to stay healthy. Those guys really couldn't leave or didn't want to leave. This hurts then next year and really hurts 2 years down the road. They need to get in talented JUCO transfers to fill in the gaps.

 

[swVAHorn]

Yeah if Charlie goes 8-4 and the boosters still move on from him there are only a few guys out there where people would say "yeah they did the right thing." And you pretty much named them. I've been on recored if he gets 8 wins he should get year 4. I stand by that. Imo if you weren't going to keep him after 8 wins I'm not sure why he got year 3?

Texas FIRED a National Championship winning coach who had 8 wins.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Texas FIRED a National Championship winning coach who had 8 wins.

And I wonder how much they regret that decision.

 

[dtrain87]

Texas FIRED a National Championship winning coach who had 8 wins.

He was trending down, while UT is trending up now. None of his players was drafted, while this roster has many future draft picks. LSU just did the same thing.

 

[Pumpedup55]

He was trending down, while UT is trending up now. None of his players was drafted, while this roster has many future draft picks. LSU just did the same thing.

6-7 to 5-7 is trending up?

 

[obviouslyZRH]

He was trending down, while UT is trending up now. None of his players was drafted, while this roster has many future draft picks. LSU just did the same thing.

Actually, Brown finished with 8-5, 9-4, 8-5 seasons. We've been trending down since he left. And to solidify the point: Mack got those 8 wins with garbage players that never got drafted; meanwhile, our "future draft pick" team now has yet to squeak out a winning season.

Those are the kinds of facts that make me think it'd be better to move on from Strong sooner rather than later.

 

[dtrain87]

Actually, Brown finished with 8-5, 9-4, 8-5 seasons. We've been trending down since he left. And to solidify the point: Mack got those 8 wins with garbage players that never got drafted; meanwhile, our "future draft pick" team now has yet to squeak out a winning season.

Those are the kinds of facts that make me think it'd be better to move on from Strong sooner rather than later.

He got it with guys the NFL didn't want and guys that would likely have been booted off of Strong's team because of his Honor Code?

 

[dtrain87]

6-7 to 5-7 is trending up?

Talent and recruiting is trending up and so are the quality of young men.

 

[Pumpedup55]

Talent and recruiting is trending up and so are the quality of young men.

The only thing that matters is wins, and strong can't deliver on that.

 

[obviouslyZRH]

He got it with guys the NFL didn't want and guys that would likely have been booted off of Strong's team because of his Honor Code?

Do you think Strong would do better with the 2013 squad than the current one?? Honor code or not. And besides a little video camera incident and maybe some herb, what uncouth players did we harbor? The fact is we've sucked the last two years. This year looks decidedly better, to be sure, but we're still battling for a 0.500 season. We had a few good upsets last year, but we also got shut out by a 3-9 ISU. It's baffling. I was on the fence when I started this thread, but having recalled the last few seasons, I don't think Strong will do much better once our young team becomes 12 months older. He will do better, as it's damn near impossible to do worse, but he won't bring back the glory days (member the glory days?! I member).

 

[oldhorn2]

The only thing that matters is wins, and strong can't deliver on that.

This is just wrong or Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill would still be coaching....and I could throw in a little Art Bryles. Failing to win will bring a coach down as it should, but winning with thugs never lasts.