Charlies Strong's seeds for failure at UT

[dtrain87]

1. He failed to micromanage and be detail oriented with his program and hires. When you make 5 million a year and are the HC, black HC at Texas you better be on your Ps and Qs. He did not dot the Is and and cross Ts.

2. He brought Shawn Watson with him, instead of getting a power spread guru. He didn't know much about Texas HS ball, although he was a one time Aggies assistant and hailed from Arkansas. Maybe he knew 1970-90s ball, but not the hurry-up, no huddle spread HS systems that dominate the state today. Watson was a failure at most stops as an OC, most was a QB coach. He lucked into Bridgewater, because outside of him what good QBs had he mentored and molded? He made it worse by sticking with him in year two, which goes back to point #1. He trusted the dude to be capable of installing a true spread offense?

3. This is not the SEC or mid-major football. You are not facing Bama, Arkansas, LSU, Wisonsin, Stanford, Michigan and MSU every week!!! You were a great DC vs conventional offenses, but you did not cut your teeth vs pass happy Big 12 offense nor the running attacks like Malzahn, Morris or Briles, much less Chip Kelly, Rich Rod or Urban Meyer. Your schemes and personnel have to match accordingly to your needs and DEs and CBs are what are needed as per your wise friend Urban Meyer.

 

[horn01]

1. He failed to micromanage and be detail oriented with his program and hires. When you make 5 million a year and are the HC, black HC at Texas you better be on your Ps and Qs. He did not dot the Is and and cross Ts.

2. He brought Shawn Watson with him, instead of getting a power spread guru. He didn't know much about Texas HS ball, although he was a one time Aggies assistant and hailed from Arkansas. Maybe he knew 1970-90s ball, but not the hurry-up, no huddle spread HS systems that dominate the state today. Watson was a failure at most stops as an OC, most was a QB coach. He lucked into Bridgewater, because outside of him what good QBs had he mentored and molded? He made it worse by sticking with him in year two, which goes back to point #1. He trusted the dude to be capable of installing a true spread offense?

3. This is not the SEC or mid-major football. You are not facing Bama, Arkansas, LSU, Wisonsin, Stanford, Michigan and MSU every week!!! You were a great DC vs conventional offenses, but you did not cut your teeth vs pass happy Big 12 offense nor the running attacks like Malzahn, Morris or Briles, much less Chip Kelly, Rich Rod or Urban Meyer. Your schemes and personnel have to match accordingly to your needs and DEs and CBs are what are needed as per your wise friend Urban Meyer.

Comfort hires. Thats really all there is to it. He made comfort hires and then was reluctant to replace them. Gilbert is working out about as well as you could hope for, and maybe so will a new DC if he gets that chance, but the path to retaining his job looks pretty difficult.
It also seems to me like he needs a details guy on the sideline. Perfect example being the illegally blocked extra points. How did they let that happen three times without addressing the situation to the refs? The poor decision on the time out. The poor decision to punt from midfield with four minutes left down by 18 points. Kind of like a guy at a black jack table holding a cheat sheet. You just need a guy who is watching all the small details.

 

[mm42]

IMO Strong's biggest weakness is not doing a good job of picking his staff. At a school like Texas the head coach has a ton of non-football duties. LHN has to be a pain. Big money donors are also big ego donors. Mack Brown was a natural with donors, which was a huge asset.
A great staff would have saved Strong, a terrible one killed him. But that is his fault.

 

[diadevic]

When you make 5 million a year and are the HC, black HC at Texas you better be on your Ps and Qs.

I quit reading after this. What does race have to do with this? Why the fixation? He has a losing record at THE University of Texas. That won't cut regardless of race!

 

[oldhorn2]

I have said, I am off the train...but you are omitting one pesky detail in your condemnation of Charlie's ability to design a defense against the spread HUNH offenses in the big 12. In his first game against Baylor which is the poster child for spread/HUNH offenses....he virtually shut them down. Art Bryles told him after the game...."you are the only one who has ever shut us down"

yes,yes he did it with Macks players...they were the only upper classmen defense he has has since he got here. Those super Mack players that had what?...one guy drafted?

There are many,many reasons to Damn Strong on his failures as a coach here, but to say his ideas as a DC are out dated is just wrong.

 

[diadevic]

Perfect example being the illegally blocked extra points..

Where was the illegality? Not picking a fight - I just haven't seen this. On the replays it just looked like they put 2 guys over one and bowled him over.

 

[oldhorn2]

I read that you are not allowed to bullrush the center until 1 second after the snap( to protect a defenseless player) but OSU was doing it every time and not getting called. I also read that since it wasnt being called that we did it late and blocked one ourselves. I have no idea if any of this is true....dont remember where I read it either...either on Brainiacs or hornsports.

 

[diadevic]

I read that you are not allowed to bullrush the center until 1 second after the snap( to protect a defenseless player) but OSU was doing it every time and not getting called. I also read that since it wasnt being called that we did it late and blocked one ourselves. I have no idea if any of this is true....dont remember where I read it either...either on Brainiacs or hornsports.

Well OSU was certainly doing that, no doubt. I didn't know that was illegal.

 

[bubba2023]

He just didn't translate. That's the same story for a lot of guys, it's not a unique situation. He may grow from this and be a good coach somewhere, but it just won't be here. When you only play a couple of games a year against teams that have similar talent then your coaching ability can easily be deceiving.

As far as his hires they were bad, but every coach is bringing his guys with him. You think Tom Herman isn't bringing his guys? Unless you hire a veteran coach that has ties all over the country, you are likely just getting a transplant from the school you are poaching the HC from.

 

[horn01]

Where was the illegality? Not picking a fight - I just haven't seen this. On the replays it just looked like they put 2 guys over one and bowled him over.

Oldhorn has it right. You have to wait a second before you can touch the deep snapper in CFB, which essentially take rushing past the deep snapper out of the play. Thats why plenty of teams have small deep snappers. Remember Nate Boyer? Not only did OSU rush past the snapper, they double him. They hit him on every block. They should have been letting the ref have it. Instead, they were yelling at our deep snapper. Again, this is something a details guy should have picked up on instantly.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

1. He failed to micromanage and be detail oriented with his program and hires. When you make 5 million a year and are the HC, black HC at Texas you better be on your Ps and Qs. He did not dot the Is and and cross Ts.

What does this have to do with anything? If UT had an issue with hiring a black coach they wouldn't have. He isn't cutting it and he knows it so his seat being on fire shouldn't be a surprise to him because it's not to anyone else within the program or outside.

 

[dtrain87]

All the black HCs hired at major programs were stressed with correcting outrageous behavior their white predecessors allowed and they were all told to raise grades. Sumlin at ATM seemed to get more or a free reign, but this is the same old story at most schools. Shaw is 100% Stanford man so this doesn't apply to him, but it does for hires at Miami, UW, UND, Texas, Louisville... The Black HCs that failed, were usually cut loose way before their contracts were over and they were not given the Muschamp treatment at Florida (allowed to complete contract despite no progress nor previous HC experience). D1 football has nearly 130 teams and so we have Shaw, Strong, Sumlin, Franklin, Vandy with black HCs, unless my count is wrong for the power 5?

 

[bubba2023]

I think you are bending facts to support your narrative. Muschamp sucks as a HC, but he was in the Sugar Bowl his second year. In hindsight that was just fools gold, but it looked like tremendous progress at the time. That same fools gold would buy the black coaches in your study more time as well if they ever produced it.

 

[dtrain87]

I think you are bending facts to support your narrative. Muschamp sucks as a HC, but he was in the Sugar Bowl his second year. In hindsight that was just fools gold, but it looked like tremendous progress at the time. That same fools gold would buy the black coaches in your study more time as well if they ever produced it.

That was with Meyer's players!!! When his classes came, he had no offenses. He also got beat down by Louiisville ins the Sugar Bowl. One good year out of 5 is not progress. 2 power 5 jobs, despite no success. How long will it be before Strong ever gets another power 5 shot as a HC after Texas?

 

[beasleythecard]

1. He failed to micromanage and be detail oriented with his program and hires. When you make 5 million a year and are the HC, black HC at Texas you better be on your Ps and Qs. He did not dot the Is and and cross Ts.

2. He brought Shawn Watson with him, instead of getting a power spread guru. He didn't know much about Texas HS ball, although he was a one time Aggies assistant and hailed from Arkansas. Maybe he knew 1970-90s ball, but not the hurry-up, no huddle spread HS systems that dominate the state today. Watson was a failure at most stops as an OC, most was a QB coach. He lucked into Bridgewater, because outside of him what good QBs had he mentored and molded? He made it worse by sticking with him in year two, which goes back to point #1. He trusted the dude to be capable of installing a true spread offense?

3. This is not the SEC or mid-major football. You are not facing Bama, Arkansas, LSU, Wisonsin, Stanford, Michigan and MSU every week!!! You were a great DC vs conventional offenses, but you did not cut your teeth vs pass happy Big 12 offense nor the running attacks like Malzahn, Morris or Briles, much less Chip Kelly, Rich Rod or Urban Meyer. Your schemes and personnel have to match accordingly to your needs and DEs and CBs are what are needed as per your wise friend Urban Meyer.

Watson with Bridgewater was like stevie wonder driving a Aston Martin

 

[diadevic]

All the black HCs hired at major programs were stressed with correcting outrageous behavior their white predecessors allowed and they were all told to raise grades. Sumlin at ATM seemed to get more or a free reign, but this is the same old story at most schools. Shaw is 100% Stanford man so this doesn't apply to him, but it does for hires at Miami, UW, UND, Texas, Louisville... The Black HCs that failed, were usually cut loose way before their contracts were over and they were not given the Muschamp treatment at Florida (allowed to complete contract despite no progress nor previous HC experience). D1 football has nearly 130 teams and so we have Shaw, Strong, Sumlin, Franklin, Vandy with black HCs, unless my count is wrong for the power 5?

If you want to start a thread on the lack of African American coaches in D1 football - that will be an interesting discussion. But to say Strong is being singled out when he has a losing record, is staring at a 3rd straight loss, and has 11 blowout losses of 18 points or more in only 29 games (38% of his games!), I think is out of bounds. Mackovic got fired over a 66-3 loss, and he had a conference championship. Fans of winners and critics of losers are color blind.

 

[bubba2023]

That was with Meyer's players!!! When his classes came, he had no offenses. He also got beat down by Louiisville ins the Sugar Bowl. One good year out of 5 is not progress. 2 power 5 jobs, despite no success. How long will it be before Strong ever gets another power 5 shot as a HC after Texas?

That's using hindsight which no one has at the time. At the time it was a great second year. Like I said it was fools gold, but at the time there is no other way to construe that as anything other than progress, and that is something that others you mention failed to even give glimpse of. A new coach improving upon the previous record is considered progress it's only after the fact is it found out to be false if indeed it was.

If he had sucked his second year like Strong did, he would have been fired a year before his contract expired like Strong appears to be headed towards. If Strong would have done something with Mack's recruits in year 2 like make a BCS bowl and lost he would be here for his final contract year.

Muschamp wasn't given an extra year because he was white, which I believe is what you are arguing?

 

[diadevic]

That was with Meyer's players!!! When his classes came, he had no offenses. He also got beat down by Louiisville ins the Sugar Bowl. One good year out of 5 is not progress. 2 power 5 jobs, despite no success. How long will it be before Strong ever gets another power 5 shot as a HC after Texas?

You've got a valid point on Muschamp - if you can't win at Florida, why does anyone think he can win at a school without as many advantages?

 

[horn01]

All the black HCs hired at major programs were stressed with correcting outrageous behavior their white predecessors allowed and they were all told to raise grades. Sumlin at ATM seemed to get more or a free reign, but this is the same old story at most schools. Shaw is 100% Stanford man so this doesn't apply to him, but it does for hires at Miami, UW, UND, Texas, Louisville... The Black HCs that failed, were usually cut loose way before their contracts were over and they were not given the Muschamp treatment at Florida (allowed to complete contract despite no progress nor previous HC experience). D1 football has nearly 130 teams and so we have Shaw, Strong, Sumlin, Franklin, Vandy with black HCs, unless my count is wrong for the power 5?

Strong was a bit of an experiment from the beginning. The promise of Strong was that what he lacked in hardware, CEO skills, and proven x's and o's ability, he could make up for in his ability to develop players, which was sorely lacking in the latter years of the Mack era.
He is not being questioned now because he is black. He is being questioned because he has loads of talent that appear to be completely underdeveloped. Every player on our secondary looks worse than last year, or at best, looks as if he has made no improvement. Year three special teams are an absolute dumpster fire, which is a flag bearer for coaching. We've reached the point where everyone is rightfully asking, what mark is Strong making on this program? He is a player's coach. So what. Some of the worst coaches out there are loved by the players.
I am still pro Charlie Strong, but the writing is on the wall. If he loses on Saturday, what is the path back to a season that can be deemed a success?

 

[bubba2023]

Not to mention the prize of the 2014 class, Malik Jefferson, is invisible out there. Yeah we are playing a bunch of young guys, but they aren't making plays.

 

[horn01]

Not to mention the prize of the 2014 class, Malik Jefferson, is invisible out there. Yeah we are playing a bunch of young guys, but they aren't making plays.

I said the same last week. If we had a good D but Malik wasn't blowing up the stat sheet, so be it. Instead, we have a terrible defense and Malik isn't a factor because he is being used as a clean up guy.

 

[bubba2023]

I said the same last week. If we had a good D but Malik wasn't blowing up the stat sheet, so be it. Instead, we have a terrible defense and Malik isn't a factor because he is being used as a clean up guy.

No one is making consistent plays on D. Like you said, at worst they have regressed, at best no improvement. We are to buy that one more year and the switch is going to flip for everyone? The criticism of Strong is completely justifiable without bring race into the equation.

 

[HornDrummer]

Not to mention the prize of the 2014 class, Malik Jefferson, is invisible out there. Yeah we are playing a bunch of young guys, but they aren't making plays.

I think it's more that teams are game planning away from Malik's area. You almost never see anyone going right at him. To me it looks pretty obvious that coordinators just want to try to neutralize him or at least avoid him.

 

[bubba2023]

I think it's more that teams are game planning away from Malik's area. You almost never see anyone going right at him. To me it looks pretty obvious that coordinators just want to try to neutralize him or at least avoid him.

That's probably a lot of it, but it's not all of it. He's looked foolish out there enough to raise flags that he may not be the stud he's hyped as.

 

[James Knox Polk]

Comfort hires. Thats really all there is to it. He made comfort hires and then was reluctant to replace them. Gilbert is working out about as well as you could hope for, and maybe so will a new DC if he gets that chance, but the path to retaining his job looks pretty difficult.
It also seems to me like he needs a details guy on the sideline. Perfect example being the illegally blocked extra points. How did they let that happen three times without addressing the situation to the refs? The poor decision on the time out. The poor decision to punt from midfield with four minutes left down by 18 points. Kind of like a guy at a black jack table holding a cheat sheet. You just need a guy who is watching all the small details.

Not to mention the delay of game penalty before the field goal attempt.

 

[oldhorn2]

Say what you will....but Malik had a very bad game against OSU and I suspect he would be the first to tell you. His tackling was as bad as everyone elses.

 

[CaptainZigZag]

Oldhorn has it right. You have to wait a second before you can touch the deep snapper in CFB, which essentially take rushing past the deep snapper out of the play. Thats why plenty of teams have small deep snappers. Remember Nate Boyer? Not only did OSU rush past the snapper, they double him. They hit him on every block. They should have been letting the ref have it. Instead, they were yelling at our deep snapper. Again, this is something a details guy should have picked up on instantly.

Also known as the "one Mississippi " count from flag football days

 

[clob94]

Malik is an immense talent that, given the proper coaching, will be a top 10 pick and play 10 years in the league. Period.