Entitlement

[gordo107]

There was lots of talk about entitlement, esp with Mack and his players. I think the entitlement rests at the foot of Deloss Dodds. Remember the "We are the Joneses"? Sounds and reads well... but we were not and we are not. One thing that Coach Royal said about uniforms stood out, these (uniforms) are work clothes. He ran his football team that way, and the athletic department like that. Its work and them more work. No glitz, no glamour. Old school coach and work ethic. His players took on that same trait. Fast forward to Mack and Deloss. The feeling UT was owed something, because were Texas. Royal earned it, worked at it. Not saying Mack didn't work, or his teams didn't work, but they felt they were owned games, owed respect. Respect is something you earn on the field every year. Things got complacent on the team and in the admin, The saying the fish stinks from the head, is true here. It started at the top, not just with Mack and the team.

This has all been placed on Charlies head to correct, but the issue is and was deeper than just the head coach and team. The top needs to get fixed.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

I partially agree. But, regardless, Strong had to know that he had to show measurable progress on the football field and with wins on Saturdays. Therefore, he gets paid $5 million/year to right the ship without destroying it further, in the process. Has he been successful?

A much cheaper coach could have done as much as Strong has done. Coaches get paid to win. If you cannot do that, nothing else matters.

 

[gordo107]

Agreed

 

[aggie1982]

I don't think entitlement is an issue that can be assigned to an administrator or coach directly.

Especially not now after getting y'alls dicks knocked in the dirt for several seasons. No one currently on the team was suiting up during the steam roller years. They've come in to a program that was wounded and you have to think recruiters pitched them as critical to helping the team return to glory, not "Come to Texas to win championships."

I think the issue has roots in the kids themselves and is compounded by the system as a whole.

They are treated like rock stars at their high schools. Because football programs are big $$$.

Then on the recruiting trail they're treated like royalty because coaches and recruiters are in a bind. Giving them too much reality up front might run them off to another school that is still promising sunshine and lollipops.
(You can see how much these kids think of themselves in the over the top way some of them reveal their final choices or top 3 etc.)

Then they get to the schools. They suit up and the instant they hit the field they're told "You are part of a team. Our Senior 3rd stringer from last year knows the offense backwards and forwards and is neck and neck with the kid we sucked off to come here two years ago and redshirt. Right now the best way to help the team is to sit your ass on the bench and learn."

Meanwhile the kid is thinking that he's been doing this his entire life, has always been the best and he is certain he knows football. And you can't exactly blame him because all the data points he has to look at suggest that he's 100% right.

Plus he's wondering what happened to all the ass kissing from back before NSD.

There are outliers who are successful because early on they figured out that hard work was the reason they're so good. And a large majority of players who come onto campus with sketchy expectations DO pull their heads out of their asses and fall in line.

But it only takes a couple rogues to sow dissent.

And you can't so easily use the argument "Well they need to know that they're at the next level and what worked in HS won't work in the Big 12 or SEC or B1G." because I'm sure most of us have kids of our own and KNOW how hard it is to explain a new abstract concept to them. Ever tried to explain to a 2 yr old why he can't just take the toy off the shelf at the store? If so you know, he just doesn't f*cking get it yet.

How are you going to tell a kid who throws for a trillion yards and 400 touchdowns that he's not yet ready to start? Too many of these kids can't wrap their minds around that.

 

[Belldozer1]

I partially agree. But, regardless, Strong had to know that he had to show measurable progress on the football field and with wins on Saturdays. Therefore, he gets paid $5 million/year to right the ship without destroying it further, in the process. Has he been successful?

A much cheaper coach could have done as much as Strong has done. Coaches get paid to win. If you cannot do that, nothing else matters.

Very true and I've never heard a fan base content saying: "We may be losing, but we're losing with good kids, and that's what really matters". No, it's all about wins

 

[oldhorn2]

Bell...that is WAY to simplistic. Of course it is NOT all about wins. If it were Switzer would still be at OU...Sherrill would still be at aTm. and Bryles would still be at bailer. I used to think you were smarter than that.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Bell...that is WAY to simplistic. Of course it is NOT all about wins. If it were Switzer would still be at OU...Sherrill would still be at aTm. and Bryles would still be at bailer. I used to think you were smarter than that.

It's not all about wins. But, it is all about winning with a team abiding by the law and demonstrating high morals and ethics.

Winning matters more than losing. Keeping your players out of trouble matters more than not. But, it doesn't require $5 million/year to hire a disciplinarian.

It requires $5 million/year to maintain discipline and win. So far, Chuck is a successful disciplinarian.

 

[Belldozer1]

Bell...that is WAY to simplistic. Of course it is NOT all about wins. If it were Switzer would still be at OU...Sherrill would still be at aTm. and Bryles would still be at bailer. I used to think you were smarter than that.

Perhaps I knew you would be reading it? Of course it's not ALL about wins BUT are you happy with the status quo at your school? What's 5 mil a year getting you? Core Values? Mack Brown at the end of his tenure is still better than what you have 3 years later and that was with Case McCoy.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Perhaps I knew you would be reading it? Of course it's not ALL about wins BUT are you happy with the status quo at your school? What's 5 mil a year getting you? Core Values? Mack Brown at the end of his tenure is still better than what you have 3 years later and that was with Case McCoy.

In hindsight, I would rather have kept Mack.

 

[oldhorn2]

Bell....you are very like Dabomb....no matter the arguement you change the parameters of the question. At any rate, I will play along.

To your first question/statement.......no..it is not all about the wins.

To your additional statements..*.Hell no I am not happy about the results so far.
*5 million has gotten a culture change and many damned good recruits.
*No Mack was not better at the end of his time here. If you wanted to see a real shit show, leave Mack in for 2014 and 2015.Mack went 5-7 the next year after being
in a Natty...imagine what he would have done with the guys he left here.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

I wonder why Mack's success faded away from 2010-2013? Was it a combination of the let down from the 2008 last minute regular season loss to Tech and the 2009 MNC loss to Alabama? Was it that plus the HCIW hire that could have made him feel that he was being forced out and the HCIW title caused power struggles among the staff-therefore, the recruiting dropped off? Mack was darn good through 2009. Something happened. Thoughts?

 

[clob94]

I'm buying bell a giant spoon and leaving it at the desk at tractor supply for him to take home. Every time he feels the need to come on here and try to stir sh!t up-- he should instead, pick up his giant spoon and go play in the comal river.......

 

[Belldozer1]

I'm buying bell a giant spoon and leaving it at the desk at tractor supply for him to take home. Every time he feels the need to come on here and try to stir sh!t up-- he should instead, pick up his giant spoon and go play in the comal river.......

Hey, I'm just trying to help out here Clob and I'm concerned my good friend OldHorn is on a Orange Kool aid bender, the likes of which I've never seen. Just trying to reel him in a little

 

[oldhorn2]

Damn Bell.......actually, the only thing I disagreed with you was the idea that Mack did any better than Strong. I merely said that my opinion....and it is my opinion...is tht had Mack stayed on he would have had worse results in 2015 and this year than what we have seen from Strong....and certainly next year. I already told you I was not at all happy about where we are now.

 

[swVAHorn]

It was time for Mack to leave...not one doubt about that.....BUT....the man WON a lot of games and a National Title. He had 1 losing season. He could have won more Conf Champs is the worst thing. Why do some of you never give him any credit? I don't get it.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

2010-2013 was painful. For that, I was ready to see Mack go and I was optimistic about Strong. So far, 2014-2016 have been much more painful.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

If this was about pampered superstar high school players then Alabama would be the worst team in the country.

This is about coaching, specifically our back 7. Our DBs don't know what the hell they are doing and it shows up every week.

Just look at the change our offense has made with two quality assistant coaching hires. Imagine what this whole team would look like if we had quality defensive coaches.

 

[westx]

I wonder why Mack's success faded away from 2010-2013? Was it a combination of the let down from the 2008 last minute regular season loss to Tech and the 2009 MNC loss to Alabama? Was it that plus the HCIW hire that could have made him feel that he was being forced out and the HCIW title caused power struggles among the staff-therefore, the recruiting dropped off? Mack was darn good through 2009. Something happened. Thoughts?

This is a good topic. I too, am interested in what Horn fans remember about the end of the Mack era. I, for one, remember pretty good coordinators (except Manny). I think there was a unproductive ego competition with Major and Harsin. Horrible successive QB recruiting. It also seemed that Mack was floundering or indecisive on selecting an offensive identity and committing to it.

 

[speedstrength]

We were not a young team in 2013. We had lots of Junior/Senior talent on both sides of the ball and Mack only managed 8-5. Ced Reed, Malcom Brown, Chirs Whaley and Jackson Jeffcoat on the D Line, Ridgeway, Tank, and Shiro Davis in back up roles. Edmond and Hicks at LB. Diggs, Thompson, and Byndom in the secondary. Cochran, Walters, Espinosa and Hopkins on the Oline. The following year they have some of the guys back on D and are really good but, you have issues on O. Esttelle and Harrison cant put down the bong. Harrison was so bad he was in Mack's dog house. Espinosa and Ash are lost for the season in the first leaving Swoopes and true freshman Heard. No telling if Estelelle or Harrison would have been any good but probably not. The D might have done as well but I don't see the offense doing any better. Mack would have been 6-7 in 2014.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

We were not a young team in 2013. We had lots of Junior/Senior talent on both sides of the ball and Mack only managed 8-5. Ced Reed, Malcom Brown, Chirs Whaley and Jackson Jeffcoat on the D Line, Ridgeway, Tank, and Shiro Davis in back up roles. Edmond and Hicks at LB. Diggs, Thompson, and Byndom in the secondary. Cochran, Walters, Espinosa and Hopkins on the Oline. The following year they have some of the guys back on D and are really good but, you have issues on O. Esttelle and Harrison cant put down the bong. Harrison was so bad he was in Mack's dog house. Espinosa and Ash are lost for the season in the first leaving Swoopes and true freshman Heard. No telling if Estelelle or Harrison would have been any good but probably not. The D might have done as well but I don't see the offense doing any better. Mack would have been 6-7 in 2014.

Great points

 

[wadster]

What got lost more then anything else was leadership. Vince, anyone would have followed him. Colt earned it along the way but there was tons of leadership already on the team Colt's 1st year. Quan was like 24, and that really helped some of the young guys.