The Roughing the Passer Call/Would be Safety

[Texasguy115]

I’ve read a lot of different analysis on this play. The refs said that there was no safety/intentional grounding since Bryce Young wasn’t down, threw the ball, and it hit a defenders helmet which negates the intentional grounding. Which is the correct call.

But if you look at the replay; pause around the 1:38 mark, it appears as if his shin/leg touched the ground, which would cause him to be down before he ever threw the ball, and result in a safety.



If I could figure out how to post a pic I would show a freeze frame of the angle where his leg appears to be down. What does everyone else think?

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[LAY THE WOODY]

Save yer time. You guys got jobbed.

 

[KChorn11]

The referees have no idea what happens on that play. Just making up as they went along.

 

[Texasguy115]

Save yer time. You guys got jobbed.

Why do you think so?

 

[Metcalf #2]

How does the ball hitting a defender negate intentional grounding? If that’s the case, why do QBs bother with all the effort of throwing across the LOS? Just throw it at the nearest defender, right?

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Why do you think so?

Why do you think so? I've been watching cfb for 50+ years. Whatcha got hank?

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

How does the ball hitting a defender negate intentional grounding? If that’s the case, why do QBs bother with all the effort of throwing across the LOS? Just throw it at the nearest defender, right?

Bama perk.

 

[Texasguy115]

How does the ball hitting a defender negate intentional grounding? If that’s the case, why do QBs bother with all the effort of throwing across the LOS? Just throw it at the nearest defender, right?

Per the rules, the ball couldn’t go past the LOS because the ball was deflected off the Texas player’s helmet. Therefore no intentional grounding. I’m not arguing about this call, it’s about him being down.

If you have a different interpretation of the intentional grounding rule, please share.

 

[2300 Nueces]

That head referee that works out 24/7 and wears those stupid glasses to look smart, should be doxxed. We'll let the fans fire him.

 

[Texasguy115]

I couldn’t figure out how to add a photo on here. But if you look at the link below, there’s a few freeze frames that show his leg is touching the ground.

 

[Drtxhorn]

I couldn’t figure out how to add a photo on here. But if you look at the link below, there’s a few freeze frames that show his leg is touching the ground.

View embedded media

He was down. They blew the call. It wasn’t reviewable because they didn’t rule it on the field as a safety. Had the ruling been safety, it would’ve been reviewable.

 

[weevilcatch]

It should've been a safety.

Texas also missed an easy FG. Texas should've been up 21-10 at one point.

Also, Texas should've scored a TD or two inside the 10 but had to attempt FGs. TD before end of 1H and at least one from 2nd half and the safety/non safety isn't an issue.

All Texas will get is a "sorry" so who gives a shit? Referee's are just poor...always will be. Take care of what you can and make them a non-factor.

 

[Texasguy115]

It should've been a safety.

Texas also missed an easy FG. Texas should've been up 21-10 at one point.

Also, Texas should've scored a TD or two inside the 10 but had to attempt FGs. TD before end of 1H and at least one from 2nd half and the safety/non safety isn't an issue.

All Texas will get is a "sorry" so who gives a shit? Referee's are just poor...always will be. Take care of what you can and make them a non-factor.

Agreed. But none of those are a result of a blown call by the refs. Those are all bad plays on Texas’ part.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Agreed. But none of those are a result of a blown call by the refs. Those are all bad plays on Texas’ part.

Yer unbelievable.

 

[weevilcatch]

Agreed. But none of those are a result of a blown call by the refs. Those are all bad plays on Texas’ part.

Refs are going to blow calls. They always have and always will. They're not going to be perfect nor can we expect them to be. The ones that don't care to know the rules or that lose focus of where their eyes should be are the ones I can't stand.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Refs are going to blow calls. They always have and always will. They're not going to be perfect nor can we expect them to be. The ones that don't care to know the rules or that lose focus of where their eyes should be are the ones I can't stand.

Bama games?

 

[Texasguy115]

He was down. They blew the call. It wasn’t reviewable because they didn’t rule it on the field as a safety. Had the ruling been safety, it would’ve been reviewable.

100%

 

[Texasguy115]

Here’s another thing I just thought of. If Bryce was ruled down after the fact on the review due to his leg touching the ground, and a safety is called. Then would that late hit by the Texas defender have counted as roughing the passer since Bryce was considered down, which would negate the safety?

So many variables involved with that one play.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Here’s another thing I just thought of. If Bryce was ruled down after the fact on the review due to his leg touching the ground, and a safety is called. Then would that late hit by the Texas defender have counted as roughing the passer since Bryce was considered down, which would negate the safety?

So many variables involved with that one play.

👍

 

[curveball1]

I couldn’t figure out how to add a photo on here. But if you look at the link below, there’s a few freeze frames that show his leg is touching the ground.

View embedded media

That is down without question.

 

[LonghornMM]

That head referee that works out 24/7 and wears those stupid glasses to look smart, should be doxxed. We'll let the fans fire him.

Add that he wears his shirt about two sizes too small.

 

[Texasguy115]

That is down without question.

Agreed!

 

[weevilcatch]

Here’s another thing I just thought of. If Bryce was ruled down after the fact on the review due to his leg touching the ground, and a safety is called. Then would that late hit by the Texas defender have counted as roughing the passer since Bryce was considered down, which would negate the safety?

So many variables involved with that one play.

Not if the whistle wasn't blown.

 

[Hookedonit]

I’ve read a lot of different analysis on this play. The refs said that there was no safety/intentional grounding since Bryce Young wasn’t down, threw the ball, and it hit a defenders helmet which negates the intentional grounding. Which is the correct call.

But if you look at the replay; pause around the 1:38 mark, it appears as if his shin/leg touched the ground, which would cause him to be down before he ever threw the ball, and result in a safety.

View embedded media

If I could figure out how to post a pic I would show a freeze frame of the angle where his leg appears to be down. What does everyone else think?

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[dj701919]

Here’s another thing I just thought of. If Bryce was ruled down after the fact on the review due to his leg touching the ground, and a safety is called. Then would that late hit by the Texas defender have counted as roughing the passer since Bryce was considered down, which would negate the safety?

So many variables involved with that one play.

In the words of Gus Johnson:

"He barely touched him"

That's why they overturned the call.

 

[Texasguy115]

In the words of Gus Johnson:

"He barely touched him"

That's why they overturned the call.

They overturned the call because Bryce wasn’t down according to the refs, so the hit was legal. If Bryce was down, then it would’ve been a late hit and a penalty.

If you look at the replay, it looks like Bryce was down before he threw the ball. So the correct call would have been: Bryce was down, a safety called + late hit. But not sure if the late hit counts in that scenario.

 

[dj701919]

They overturned the call because Bryce wasn’t down according to the refs, so the hit was legal. If Bryce was down, then it would’ve been a late hit and a penalty.

If you look at the replay, it looks like Bryce was down before he threw the ball. So the correct call would have been: Bryce was down, a safety called + late hit. But not sure if the late hit counts in that scenario.

The ref clearly said that the roughing the passer penalty was targeting and because there was no evidence of targeting, there was no roughing the passer. The call wasn't for a late hit, because thay would have made targeting and roughing the passer irrelevant.

If you're trying to get technical, he should have been ruled in the grasp and the play blown dead.

 

[Metcalf #2]

After watching it again I’m pretty pissed with Sweat. He had him wrapped up, but was too worried about celebrating and let him go. Young was even tucking the ball in give up position until he was let go. If Sweat just finishes the goddamn play, we’re not even having this discussion.

Still some crooked shit going on here, though. There was nothing even remotely close to targeting. It’s unbelievable how obvious that was. It’s like the ref panicked in an effort to save Bama, and just threw the flag and quickly made something up. Knowing full well if he called something, anything else, the safety wouldn’t be reviewable. It’s just too obvious not to suspect foul play.

 

[Okie70]

The targeting call was obvious B.S. But still not getting the call re: not a safety. QB going down tries to throw the ball away and can't get it past the line of scrimmage, assuming he was outside the tackle box which looked likely. Obvious penalty. So the ball hit a Horn player. So what? Is there an exception if you through the ball away to avoid a sack it hits an opposing lineman its not downing the ball? Horns got screwed out of two points here unless I don't know the rules.

 

[Texasguy115]

The targeting call was obvious B.S. But still not getting the call re: not a safety. QB going down tries to throw the ball away and can't get it past the line of scrimmage, assuming he was outside the tackle box which looked likely. Obvious penalty. So the ball hit a Horn player. So what? Is there an exception if you through the ball away to avoid a sack it hits an opposing lineman its not downing the ball? Horns got screwed out of two points here unless I don't know the rules.

Per the rules, the ball didn’t have a chance to pass the LOS because it was deflected off the helmet of a Texas defender. There was also a bama WR in the area. Therefore no intentional grounding. Not saying I agree with it, but according to the rules it was the right call.

If you think about it, anytime a defender like JJ Watt knocks down a pass it would be called intentional grounding, which obviously doesnt happen.

 

[dj701919]

Per the rules, the ball didn’t have a chance to pass the LOS because it was deflected off the helmet of a Texas defender. There was also a bama WR in the area. Therefore no intentional grounding. Not saying I agree with it, but according to the rules it was the right call.

If you think about it, anytime a defender like JJ Watt knocks down a pass it would be called intentional grounding, which obviously doesnt happen.

Can you post a link to the rulebook you are looking at?

 

[Texasguy115]

Can you post a link to the rulebook you are looking at?

Found this.

Why Is Spiking The Ball Not Intentional Grounding?

We try to make sense of one of the more misunderstood rulings in football.

www.vivathematadors.com

The following conditions do NOT result in an intentional grounding call:

VIII. The quarterback sprints towards the sideline and is outside the tackle box. He throws a forward pass that is batted down by a defensive lineman and lands in the neutral zone.

 

[dj701919]

That says "batted down", not struck by desperation throw to avoid safety.

Intentional Groundrules - Referee.com

Intentional grounding is likely the rule that requires the most judgment. Any rule that requires an official to determine “intent” is prone to inconsistent enforcement.

www.referee.com

That's a much better explanation and requires that official to judge whether the upside down QB that wildly heaves the ball towards the line of scrimmage is actual attempting to complete a pass or just trying to avoid loss of yardage.

 

[Texasguy115]

That says "batted down", not struck by desperation throw to avoid safety.

Intentional Groundrules - Referee.com

Intentional grounding is likely the rule that requires the most judgment. Any rule that requires an official to determine “intent” is prone to inconsistent enforcement.

www.referee.com

That's a much better explanation and requires that official to judge whether the upside down QB that wildly heaves the ball towards the line of scrimmage is actual attempting to complete a pass or just trying to avoid loss of yardage.

Regardless, there was still a WR around that area where the ball was being thrown. Doesn’t matter if the ball is thrown hard enough past the LOS as long as there’s an eligible receiver in the area?

 

[dj701919]

Regardless, there was still a WR around that area where the ball was being thrown. Doesn’t matter if the ball is thrown hard enough past the LOS as long as there’s an eligible receiver in the area?

The referee has the right to make a judgement call about whether the QB was trying to complete the pass or just avoid the sack. Who was the player he was throwing it to, Gibbs? If that is the reciever he was throwing it to, there is a problem. When the pass left his hand, it was going away from Gibbs.

The intentional grounding call on Card must also be BS, because Saunders was in the area.

Or the Jaylen Moody sack should have been roughing the passing because he hit Card in the head with both hands.