Dear Baylor fans...

[misterTeasyEmalcomXf'inAkicksome]

Ok, I just felt like I wanted to get this out there. There's going to be a lot of people saying a lot of things. I'm sure there will be poster boards at football games the whole next season. Message boards lend themselves to getting nasty about this kind of thing.

All that said, I just want to say... man, I am sorry for the rank-and-file fans right now. By and large, the Baylor fans who have been actually filling the stands at your games these days had nothing to do with this. By and large, you guys may have defended your coach or your team when early allegations came out, but you don't think rape is at all ok and probably would be rightfully upset as things came out. You've been enjoying the greatest run your football team has had, and suddenly that is being tainted and, depending on what happens next, ripped away from you guy... and that really, really sucks. Because for the most part, the fans add to the good part of what happens when a program is having success, and I'm fairly certain that for the most part you guys had no idea this stuff was going on until we all did.

As long as you all are respectful and supportive towards the victims of the atmosphere and the behavior behind all of this, then I have no problem with you at all, and I really do feel for you. When people end up not being what they appear, and you either look up to them, idolize them, or are excited for what they are able to accomplish... the revelation that follows can be just plain $#!%%y. I have cousins who went to Penn State. Huge fans of football. But who knew that the revelations that came out were horrible and things had to be done. Still, it sucked for them. They, as students, or alumni, or fans, weren't the ones who'd done anything wrong. And neither had most of the players. But what happened, beyond what they knew, was horrible... and things had to be addressed accordingly.

I hope your program and school continue to do what needs to be done to remove the element that allowed this kind of behavior to thrive (and that the sport in general does the same, because we all know that there is unacceptable behavior going on other places as well), and that everyone can move forward once those elements have been removed.

Good luck to all those players and fans who had no idea this was going on and who find the behavior involved abhorrent. Hopefully Baylor can maintain a level of success to help keep the conference exciting and that new stadium of yours full.

 

[clob94]

MTEA,

Bold of you to write that. I agree with all of it up until the last paragraph.

If you were a serious fan or alumni of Baylor and you, not once, caught even a whiff of what was going on, or heard the rumors, then you were either willfully blind, or totally incompetent. Raise your hand if you went to Baylor---

I didn't, but you can bet your buster browns that I'd heard the rumors and whispers. Hell, pretty much everyone on this board has been pounding on Briles and baylor for as long as I've been here, 2 years roughly.

 

[diadevic]

MTEA - I didn't sleep a wink last night. Its like when I put my dog to sleep - I love Art Briles, and seeing the news highlights last night and this morning of him walking defiantly on the sidelines, with his black shirt exhorting his players, lifting up our downtrodden program, and now realizing that I will never see this scene again saddens me to no end. We've had a magical journey for the last 8 years and now its over. Now we are not just "tainted" - we are an embarrassment. This is such a shocking fall its almost too much to comprehend. The idea that our guy, our leader who we put so much stock in, could let us down like this is unimaginable. I think if others expressed your sentiments towards BU fans, it would make the whole sordid mess just a little more palatable and certainly make me less defensive. I personally have never met anyone at Baylor that is in favor of rape or wants to create an atmosphere where it is acceptable, and yet we have been hammered, as fans, for being complicit. Thank you for the kind words.

And Clob - I get a kick out of your posts, but this post you can suck it. I am raising my hand, and am neither willfully blind or totally incompetent. I defy you to find on, just one, person on this board who was alleging anything unethical about Briles 2 years ago. Maybe I'm my recollection is off, but for the most part there was a grudging acceptance of his coaching genius (with maybe the exception of Longhorn Soldier). If you, or anyone, KNEW this was going on, then you are complicit by not coming forward with your charges. The snowball started with the Sam U conviction last year on this board. I got nothing against you personally, so carry on. Have a great weekend.

 

[Scholz]

I defy you to find on, just one, person on this board who was alleging anything unethical about Briles 2 years ago.

He was excoriated on this board for his complete dishonesty in the '08 tiebreaker fiasco. His dishonest vote helped keep UT out of the national title game. You still believe him that he wasn't involved in that btw?

 

[diadevic]

He was excoriated on this board for his complete dishonesty in the '08 tiebreaker fiasco. His dishonest vote helped keep UT out of the national title game. You still believe him that he wasn't involved in that btw?

You are correct on that one. I was interpreting the "rumors and whispers" as applying to the running of the program - if I am wrong then my apologies.

And BTW - I joined you in criticizing that vote. That was obviously a brother in law deal.

 

[Scholz]

You are correct on that one. I was interpreting the "rumors and whispers" as applying to the running of the program - if I am wrong then my apologies.

And BTW - I joined you in criticizing that vote. That was obviously a brother in law deal.

Cool, I had it in my head that you were the one propping up Briles' bogus claim that he had a GA make that vote and he wasn't involved. Must've been Real Whiner.

 

[misterTeasyEmalcomXf'inAkicksome]

MTEA,

Bold of you to write that. I agree with all of it up until the last paragraph.

If you were a serious fan or alumni of Baylor and you, not once, caught even a whiff of what was going on, or heard the rumors, then you were either willfully blind, or totally incompetent. Raise your hand if you went to Baylor---

I didn't, but you can bet your buster browns that I'd heard the rumors and whispers. Hell, pretty much everyone on this board has been pounding on Briles and baylor for as long as I've been here, 2 years roughly.

I understand where you're coming from. And yeah, especially as it drew on and on, it gets harder to be able to legitimately say that you didn't have suspicions. But that said, if the benchmark you want to go with is "rumors"... we've had people pop up on here and say "rumors" about things that happened with Coach Strong at Louisville. Sooner fans have certainly heard rumors about things with their players and coaching staff from time to time. I'm not excusing people for ignorance, but I will say it is possible for someone to have been a fan of Baylor during probably even MOST of the Art Briles era, where they weren't certain of anything concrete.

I wasn't really writing this for the people who were rabidly defending him, and particularly those who continued rabidly defending him as more and more evidence came out. There is a portion of those who I feel a little bad for too... I mean, the players who are talking about how Briles was the one who took a chance on him, his daughter, and such, where... they probably have known him in a way none of us have and, even with the facts out there, it's probably really tough to get through the emotions to land on the truth of what happened: that, no, he's not a "sheriff"... and no he didn't rape those girls himself... and yes, probably the interaction that they had with him had positive effects on their lives... but the fact that he helped cover up what was going on, causing more damage to the victims' lives rather than dealing with it properly is just simply objectively a horrible thing to have done, regardless of what else he's doing in his life.

My point is, was more that it's tough to have your heroes tarnished. And that, no matter what logic you use, you can't say that because this happened at Baylor, and because some people are Baylor fans, that all Baylor fans are ok with rape, or rape cover-ups. That's simply not true. That isn't true of every Penn State fan either. And while I honestly hope this isn't over, and that they continue to figure out who else was in a position of authority (not just at Baylor, but if the Waco PD didn't do their job, and quite frankly, where ever this crap is happening in other schools and other cities) in the situation but didn't do anything about it, because clearly there were other people who didn't do their job, and beyond that, didn't act morally... there are definitely people who are Baylor fans who are like me, I'm sure. People who don't have any direct influence on the hiring or firing of anyone; who don't know the inner workings of what's going on until they do come out, first in rumors and then in reports as more details are known; and people who, once they know what is actually happening, would be absolutely appalled by what happened and would probably do whatever limited thing they could do to demand things change. I mean, if it had happened at UT instead of Baylor, what would you have really done? I mean, I know that in your case, clob, you probably have more insider connections so maybe you could have had a greater effect. And I mean, would I have said something when I was being asked whether or not I wanted to order my season tickets? Yeah, sure. Maybe said that if something didn't change, I would cancel them? Protested? Ok. Yeah, I could see myself getting involved in those things if the details were out there and they were as bad as they were at Baylor. Would I stop being a UT fan? I'd probably stop being a fan of the coach. Of the players involved. And I'd lose respect for other people who helped cover it up, but my hope would be that the powers that be would clean house so they could get someone in there I COULD support, not for me to just quit being a UT fan. Given the magnitude of what happened that might sound ridiculous, but I think most people who are fans and alumni of teams and schools would likely feel similarly.

I will say this, my posting of this topic did make me wonder if my choice of timing was poor. The sentiment was genuine, but the bigger picture is that, regardless of how crappy it is for fans, it's crappier for the girls whose lives were affected by all this. No matter how much the situation will change the lives of Baylor players who are losing the guy who took a chance on them, or Baylor recruits who now have to reevaluate their decisions, or Ken Starr who gets to merely be "reassigned", or the coach who is out of a job, it's nothing compare to how the situation changed the lives of the actual victims. So that should be (and should have been from the start) the focus here..

 

[clob94]

The only inside insight I have baylor athletic department is my next door neighbor that grew up with for a decade. She was a woman's basketball player at Baylor and arguably one of the sweetest people on the planet. She was like my older sister. She came down from Memphis (her hubby flies for FedEx and is former navy) for the Alamo bowl a few years ago. Before the game she attended some pregame alumni mixer and after the game we all hooked up in SA, and she only remarked about some of the local Baylor alumni living in Waco, talking about players getting rowdy etc.... and it was just explained as "boys being boys". Other than that, I hadn't heard much of anything until the first "allegation" came out--- what, about 2 years ago? Is that right?

 

[clob94]

Is my time line totally screwed up or was it really that long ago? It feels like allegations have been trickling out for a loooong time. And diadevic, if my time lines are wrong, I do apologize, but it just feels like those innuendos have been coming out of Waco fir quite some time. I mean, we know the police didn't investigate one rape allegation for what, a little over a year?

 

[BringBackRoyal]

I feel bad for fans like diadevic.

As for the ~70% of posters at Baylorfans and all the Baylor fans who think that this is all just a UT- and ESPN-led conspiracy to bring Briles and Baylor down and that nothing happened there that doesn't happen everywhere, I'm glad they're suffering. Hope it hurts like hell.