Dear D'onte

[UTGrad87]

I'll put in my 2 cents FWIW.

My younger brother works in law enforcement at the federal level. He told me years ago that they break the law all the time if they're suspicious of someone but have no proof of guilt.

And they get official approval to do it. On one case he was working on, they needed to break the law in such a bad way that they had to get approval from the Attorney General. He gave it to them.

 

[clob94]

I'll put in my 2 cents FWIW.

My younger brother works in law enforcement at the federal level. He told me years ago that they break the law all the time if they're suspicious of someone but have no proof of guilt.

And they get official approval to do it. On one case he was working on, they needed to break the law in such a bad way that they had to get approval from the Attorney General. He gave it to them.

That's the sort of bullsh!t that certain LEAs do that give every other LEA a bad name.

 

[UTGrad87]

That's the sort of bullsh!t that certain LEAs do that give every other LEA a bad name.

I didn't pursue that conversation much further because I just didn't want to know the truth . . . but I came away with the feeling it was standard operating procedure at the LEA that he works for.

 

[TX1972]

That's the sort of bullsh!t that certain LEAs do that give every other LEA a bad name.

Vice laws, of anything, corrupt the police force. In order to arrest consenting adults, an officer must engage in the activity. It's why law enforcement hates the motorcycle clubs so much. Membership is so difficult that they are almost never able to infiltrate. Do you know how the Yankees got to NYC? They were bought by the chief of police, who collected most of the bribes for Tammany hall for decades. The Zetas were originally an "elite" anti-drug task force. Have you heard of MADAM MILLIE? She claimed to be the the last of the old western madams, told her story for a book. Law enforcement always got freebies so they would come down with the house if there were legal difficulties. Some "abused the privilege". I can go on at considerable detail.

 

[clob94]

Vice laws, of anything, corrupt the police force. In order to arrest consenting adults, an officer must engage in the activity. It's why law enforcement hates the motorcycle clubs so much. Membership is so difficult that they are almost never able to infiltrate. Do you know how the Yankees got to NYC? They were bought by the chief of police, who collected most of the bribes for Tammany hall for decades. The Zetas were originally an "elite" anti-drug task force. Have you heard of MADAM MILLIE? She claimed to be the the last of the old western madams, told her story for a book. Law enforcement always got freebies so they would come down with the house if there were legal difficulties. Some "abused the privilege". I can go on at considerable detail.

Please feel free.

 

[TX1972]

Please feel free.

First, you should read MADAM MILLIE. It's a great tale of prostitution in the old west. Do you remember the 2 narcotics officers in Dallas who were planting ground up pool cue chalk on illegal immigrants to arrest them for cocaine? Their scheme eventually fell apart, but they kidnapped maybe 30 men who were completely innocent. The narcotics officer who arrested most of the young black men in Thalia by lying and manufacturing evidence? Maybe 10 years ago there was an officer in Waxahachie who was known for his love of Harleys and golf. Nicknamed "Cowboy". He was paid about $30,000./yr. So he stole drugs from the evidence locker to make ends meet. When evidence was missed, investigation began to go his way, so he killed himself. Have you seen the movie RUSH? Smith county sheriff was convinced that a local bar owner was dealing drugs. So he sent 2 undercover officers to entrap him. He wouldn't have anything to do with them, so they lied about it. Eventually, the younger female officer couldn't continue the lies. She and the other undercover officer were arrested and tried, a bunch of cases were dropped, but I think the sheriff got reeclected.True story, summer of 1972. Probably the most scandalous in Texas was the Waco massacre. Here's what I think happened: The Waco police chief and his vice squad chief were convinced the Bandidos are a criminal gang. The police have been unable to infiltrate them, but they did get an informant into the Cossacks, a small struggling club. The informant had been trying to start fights with the Bandidos for over a month. Then he manufactured a story about how the Bandidos would meet them at the Confederation of Clubs meeting at Twin Peaks. CoC is a political organization, lobbying the legislature about things like the helmet laws. When the Bandidos rolled in, the Cossacks were waiting to start a fight. When the fight started, Waco's finest opened up on them with assault weapons. Unfortunately for the Cossacks, the SWAT guys weren't told which bikers to shoot, so they mostly shot Cossacks. I think the police story will fall apart in court. I think the SWAT guys are guilty of manslaughter, but the police chief and the head of the vice squad are guilty of capital murder, perhaps along with the informant.
Just look at what happened in this country when Prohibition ended: crime dropped precipitously. As it dropped in Portugal when they decriminalized drugs. All the cities of Texas are on the road to bankruptcy because of police pensions. As they say "this is not sustainable"

 

[clob94]

Interesting.... very interesting.

 

[TX1972]

Interesting.... very interesting.

People who go into law enforcement are probably self selected for violent tendencies. Data is hard to get, but police officers are at least twice, perhaps 3-4 times more likely than citizens to be involved in domestic abuse. Preferential treatment makes underestimates likely. Just like youth volunteers are also more likely to be pedophiles than random. I went to jr hi and hi school with Allen Tippett. His dad, J.D., was the officer Oswald shot after he shot Kennedy and Connally. Allen was already known as a thug at 13. After his dad died, Allen literally couldn't ge arrested. This led to progressively bigger crimes. Our senior year of high school, he and a friend (Mike Bridwell) started rolling queers down at the Dallas YMCA. Eventually, they assaulted one who was carrying a pistol. He killed Bridwell and held Tippett at gun point until the police arrived. Allen went to reform school for a few months. 15 years later, I'm reading the PARADE column "whatever happenned to" Allen Tippett. He had been hired by the Mansfield police department. What greater nightmare is there than being stopped by Officer Tippett at 2 am?

 

[clob94]

^^^^^^^^ dayum ^^^^^^^ so you went to high school in oak cliff?

 

[oldhorn2]

People who go into law enforcement are probably self selected for violent tendencies. Data is hard to get, but police officers are at least twice, perhaps 3-4 times more likely than citizens to be involved in domestic abuse. Preferential treatment makes underestimates likely. Just like youth volunteers are also more likely to be pedophiles than random. I went to jr hi and hi school with Allen Tippett. His dad, J.D., was the officer Oswald shot after he shot Kennedy and Connally. Allen was already known as a thug at 13. After his dad died, Allen literally couldn't ge arrested. This led to progressively bigger crimes. Our senior year of high school, he and a friend (Mike Bridwell) started rolling queers down at the Dallas YMCA. Eventually, they assaulted one who was carrying a pistol. He killed Bridwell and held Tippett at gun point until the police arrived. Allen went to reform school for a few months. 15 years later, I'm reading the PARADE column "whatever happenned to" Allen Tippett. He had been hired by the Mansfield police department. What greater nightmare is there than being stopped by Officer Tippett at 2 am?

so much fail in this. Good luck in life looking over your shoulder....When you begin with a faulty premise, your argument gets lost. Whatever factual information you follow with becomes so diluted with misinformation, that it loses its value.

 

[TX1972]

so much fail in this. Good luck in life looking over your shoulder....When you begin with a faulty premise, your argument gets lost. Whatever factual information you follow with becomes so diluted with misinformation, that it loses its value.

So you don't want to look at the facts? I think you're the deluded one.

 

[TX1972]

^^^^^^^^ dayum ^^^^^^^ so you went to high school in oak cliff?

Yep. My dad used to do the athletic physicals for South Oak Cliff.

 

[TX1972]

so much fail in this. Good luck in life looking over your shoulder....When you begin with a faulty premise, your argument gets lost. Whatever factual information you follow with becomes so diluted with misinformation, that it loses its value.

I believe there are some good law enforcement officers. Sheriff Bill Decker was a personal hero of mine. He must be spinning in his grave if he knows what has happened since he died. Enforcement of the vice laws and the preferential treatment they receive have led to our current situation. Why is it that police in America kill more civilians than all other industrialized countries put together? Why do they kill 10,000 dogs/year?

 

[oldhorn2]

So you don't want to look at the facts? I think you're the deluded one.

You did not start with any facts. You said "people who go into law enforcementare probably self selected for violent tendencies.

That is an opinion, not a fact. You went on to say...."data is hard to get but police officers are twice perhaps 3-4 times more likely than citizens to be involved in domestic abuse"

So which is the "fact"? twice?...3 times?...4 times?...which are you defending as a fact?
The fact is that it appears you just pulled those numbers out of your ass.

Put up some facts and I will pay attention to your statements.

 

[TX1972]

You did not start with any facts. You said "people who go into law enforcementare probably self selected for violent tendencies.

That is an opinion, not a fact. You went on to say...."data is hard to get but police officers are twice perhaps 3-4 times more likely than citizens to be involved in domestic abuse"

So which is the "fact"? twice?...3 times?...4 times?...which are you defending as a fact?
The fact is that it appears you just pulled those numbers out of your ass.

Put up some facts and I will pay attention to your statements.

Okay. This first came up after the Brady bill became law. Sarah thought firearms should not be carried by those guilty of domestic abuse. Turned out the biggest effect was on law enforcement, as I stated. I say that whatever the official number may be, it is an underestimate because
police officers don't police themselves. I was told this by my first concealed carry instructor. I believe this is now common knowledge, but I will look for published articles since you insist. This may take a while, but you may not like the results.

 

[oldhorn2]

of course there is a big effect on Police Officers because the job requires that they carry guns.Perhaps what your concealed carry insturctor said was true....perhaps it is urban legend....perhaps it is not even that credible.The Police dont police themselves?....you say that like it is absolute fact, but again...no proof. Did you know that many concealed carry instructors are in those jobs because they cannot get hired as real policemen?

Look Tx1972...I know you are one of the good guys. Show me the proof and I will agree with you

 

[TX1972]

You did not start with any facts. You said "people who go into law enforcementare probably self selected for violent tendencies.

That is an opinion, not a fact. You went on to say...."data is hard to get but police officers are twice perhaps 3-4 times more likely than citizens to be involved in domestic abuse"

So which is the "fact"? twice?...3 times?...4 times?...which are you defending as a fact?
The fact is that it appears you just pulled those numbers out of your ass.

Put up some facts and I will pay attention to your statements.

Oldhorn I did a google search, which you can verify yourself. How about The Atlantic Sept 19, 2014? Or the New York Times Nov. 23 2013? Come back and tell me the truth.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

It's weird to see statements or assumptions that our system is corrupt but yet in the same sentence I see the crooked cop was arrested or sent to prison. I get it that there are bad cops and all that but some of the statements being made are straight up blanket. I'll never forget what my cousin told me about people hating cops "Criminals hate cops period". The reason you get nervous when pulled over is more than likely due to breaking the law. I remember when I used to get nervous when pulled over I think I was in my teens or early 20's since then I've been pulled over a few times with no issue.

 

[oldhorn2]

Oldhorn I did a google search, which you can verify yourself. How about The Atlantic Sept 19, 2014? Or the New York Times Nov. 23 2013? Come back and tell me the truth.

You are the one that made statements that you claimed as facts.....if you put up links I will look at them, but I wont do your research for you. I will ignore the insult of admonishing me to tell the truth out of respect of your being a Horn fan.

 

[TX1972]

You are the one that made statements that you claimed as facts.....if you put up links I will look at them, but I wont do your research for you. I will ignore the insult of admonishing me to tell the truth out of respect of your being a Horn fan.

I don't know how to cut and paste. Can you not do a google search for "law enforcement officers and domestic violence"? I gave you the dates for the NY Times and The Atlantic articles.

 

[TX1972]

Never done this before: www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/police-domestic-abuse/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers.../380329/

 

[TX1972]

Huh, that apparently worked. Oldhorn you really need to do your own Google search, because these two articles are just the tip of the iceberg. That's why I was so incredulous that everybody didn't already know this.

 

[oldhorn2]

ok...I read the NY Times article....the Atlantic one would not open. I got some sort of labrynth picture that told me it couldnt open.

Anyway, the NY Times one was about police domestic violence. The stories were both horrific and terrible, but they did not address the issue of whether police domestic violence was twice...even 3-4 times more prevelent than the population at large. I never said there was NO police domestic violence, I just questioned what you called facts.

Why is it that someone will say something like....police domestic violence is double, triple or quadruple the popultion at large and everyone believes it....but if you hang up a sign that says "wet paint" everyone that walks by puts their finger in it?

 

[oldhorn2]

ok 1972....I rooted around and found your article in the Atlantic I saw where they cited a study and in fact they said that Police domestic violence was 2 to 4 times the rate of the general population. The studies were done 18 to 19 years ago and I have no idea of the validity of those studies, but the studies exist ( if you read it on the internet it HAS to be true), so I vindicate you and appologize for saying it looked like you pulled those numbers out of your ass.

If this helps you in your Police are Bad narritive well then, dive in.You wont get any sympathy from me.

 

[TX1972]

ok 1972....I rooted around and found your article in the Atlantic I saw where they cited a study and in fact they said that Police domestic violence was 2 to 4 times the rate of the general population. The studies were done 18 to 19 years ago and I have no idea of the validity of those studies, but the studies exist ( if you read it on the internet it HAS to be true), so I vindicate you and appologize for saying it looked like you pulled those numbers out of your ass.

If this helps you in your Police are Bad narritive well then, dive in.You wont get any sympathy from me.

You should do your own Google search, and see how often this has come up. Again, these articles are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[TX1972]

ok 1972....I rooted around and found your article in the Atlantic I saw where they cited a study and in fact they said that Police domestic violence was 2 to 4 times the rate of the general population. The studies were done 18 to 19 years ago and I have no idea of the validity of those studies, but the studies exist ( if you read it on the internet it HAS to be true), so I vindicate you and appologize for saying it looked like you pulled those numbers out of your ass.

If this helps you in your Police are Bad narritive well then, dive in.You wont get any sympathy from me.

You said you wanted a link, I found you two. Show me how you're right.

 

[oldhorn2]

right about what?

 

[TX1972]

right about what?

Right that police are no more violent in their private lives than ordinary citizens.

 

[TX1972]

Now that I've learned how to cut and paste: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/st-louis-police-cover-camera-corruptio/

 

[TX1972]

And this: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-caught-body-cam-planting-drugs-acting-like-found/

 

[oldhorn2]

I said I read your story and saw where you got your number....Happy?

 

[TX1972]

I said I read your story and saw where you got your number....Happy?

Thought I'd pass a couple links along. I'm reminded of the old 60's slogan: My country right or wrong is like my father drunk or sober.

 

[tc144509]

I wish the best to him and Texans give him a second chance because he can be great..

 

[TX1972]

Now that I can cut and paste: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-wrong-home-kill-innocent-man/