Has Texas Lost Its Appeal?

[FlourBluffHorn]

To new recruits due to turmoil and lack of facilities, maybe the young guys gotta go to a winner school and play FB< I still can't imagine a recruit turning down a good school cause of a damn weight room, all this damn recruit madness, we oughta make them sign a contract and if they don't play good then their asses are gone, they wanna be big time then treat them that way, rather do it Pop Snyders way anyway,less BS, maybe we shoulda kept MB and told him to snap outa his BS and start coaching, hindsight 20/20





Hook'em

 

[LonghornMM]

Texas isn't recruiting well because they're not winning. The Horns start winning and with hard work by Herman's staff, they'll start signing top 10 recruiting classes. Any yes, having top notch facilities is a plus when it comes to recruiting.

 

[crazypatriotguy]

Recruits aren't deciding to not attend college at all because a school doesn't have great facilities, they're choosing another school.

Texas isn't the only good school out there. If I'm a top notch football player with no emotional attachment to UT, and I'm being offered the same exact scholarship that Texas is offering, yet it's coming from a school that's winning more lately and the facilities that I'll spend the most of my time for the next 3-5 years are better, why am I saying no?

 

[Heisennberg]

It used to be in the good ole days you had your pick of the best players in texas because they spent their whole high school career watching texas living in the top 10 and competing for titles. Gonna have to start winning

 

[HornDrummer]

I realize this may sound crazy, but I'm just not sure how much young athletes really care about winning anymore. Particular those who have their sights so dead set on playing professionally. Those that come from programs that won a lot know what's involved, and I'm just not sure how many of those kids really want to keep working that hard in college.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Yes

 

[Longyac]

The problem is we haven't be a good football team since the 2018 class was 8-9 years old.

 

[Heisennberg]

I realize this may sound crazy, but I'm just not sure how much young athletes really care about winning anymore. Particular those who have their sights so dead set on playing professionally. Those that come from programs that won a lot know what's involved, and I'm just not sure how many of those kids really want to keep working that hard in college.

I think the fact that alabama has signed a bunch of #1 classes in a row suggests kids, at least the really really good ones, do care about winning. Sometimes more than playing, since many big time pleyrs prefer to sit on the bench at alabama to playing elsewhere. If your post were true, texas would be recruiting giants right now. No pressure to win in austin right now.

 

[bubba2023]

It's not really that complicated. Remove your burnt orange glasses and it's pretty clear. The players Texas is after want to win and they want to play in the NFL. Texas for this entire decade has not been a good football program by any metric. We aren't putting guys in the league and we aren't winning games. Don't even bring academics up. The majority of recruits don't care about academic perception. To football players academics isn't about your school's ranking it's about the school's support in you getting a degree.

What is Pop Snyder's way? Fill your roster with a bunch of Jucos and overachieve at a school with lower expectations to compete for the conference once every few years. He's a great coach and perfect fit at a place like Kansas State but he's not churning out year after year anything that would be considered success at Texas.

 

[ryan_sublett]

Win and recruits will come. Bottom line

The turmoil and constant rumors about the coach haven't helped but lack of winning is the main culprit. Hopefully Herman can put together a solid first year 8-10 wins and get rolling in the right direction.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Look, this is not difficult to understand. Since we signed onto the LHN, the schools in the B12 and out of, have been doing extra things to lure players away from us.... It's not that difficult to see. We thought the lure of the LHN would be enough to lock up great classes. We were wrong. Look at Baylor, TCU, OSU etc... pre LHN. They were mediocre to poor sports schools. If for one second you think the Baylor scandal ends at the raping of coeds, you are a fool. The rape scandal is a smoke screen for the $$$'s being doled out. Once LHN and the money came into being, the other schools have had to "ramp up" recruiting tactics. This includes the SEC schools tOSU, Michigan, and more. I know I am going to get the na-sayers but look at the numbers since LHN and it's $$$. It's make it or break it time for many of these programs because the pie is getting smaller, so to speak. I think Tom Herman is well aware of this and has "keyed in" the big donors... I think Texas is now "all-in" as Coach Herman has seen and knows how this game is played. The NCAA is toothless. You think the NCAA is going to ever do anything to Texas? You're crazy if you think yes. Winning is coming and soon.

****One caveat, ou has always been a cheater and always will be.... We have been out of the loop for awhile so come next Feb. win or lose, "WE'LL BE BACK!"

****Second caveat, I never condone cheating but college football-basketball is dirty, real dirty. How can one expect to keep the money out of players hands when they make sooo much for these schools?

 

[Heisennberg]

man, i dunno about that. It took them like 6 years for the network to finally turn a profit, but the lhn and all the money from it is a big deal? I always thought the money tx earned from the lhn was just a drop in the bucket, almost meaningless pennies compared to the real money they make. I think the lhn revenue is 15million for tx, but i also read that texas athletics profits in the 100 million range yearly. Just doesnt seem like enough of an extra bump in income to cause all the stuff you suggest in the above post. Considering how horrible texas has been over hte past 6 seasons, the rest of the big 12 hasnt really had to adjust their recruiting tactics all that much to get players in texas. They just need to point out the standings.

 

[2300 Nueces]

man, i dunno about that. It took them like 6 years for the network to finally turn a profit, but the lhn and all the money from it is a big deal? I always thought the money tx earned from the lhn was just a drop in the bucket, almost meaningless pennies compared to the real money they make. I think the lhn revenue is 15million for tx, but i also read that texas athletics profits in the 100 million range yearly. Just doesnt seem like enough of an extra bump in income to cause all the stuff you suggest in the above post. Considering how horrible texas has been over hte past 6 seasons, the rest of the big 12 hasnt really had to adjust their recruiting tactics all that much to get players in texas. They just need to point out the standings.

Or pay wife beaters. We have not had any recently recruited players leave since CS was fired. We are going to hold them plus pull in the ringers. It's going to get ugly once Herman gets rolling.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Considering how horrible texas has been over hte past 6 seasons

Mediocre 2011-2013
Horrible 2014-2016

But I think I get what you're saying.

 

[oldhorn2]

It used to be in the good ole days you had your pick of the best players in texas because they spent their whole high school career watching texas living in the top 10 and competing for titles. Gonna have to start winning

I have generally considered Heisennberg to be mostly a troll, but he is dead on right here and I will be forced to give him a like for this post.

These HS guys want to go to the league and make big money. They will go to the programs that can get them there. Charlie got very good recruiting classes here even though he couldnt coach a lick, but he had a history of getting lots of guys to the next level. However, at some point you have to win. You cannot suck forever and expect any decent kids to beat down your doors to sign LOI's.
The LHN has been largely wasted by our continued suckage. We HAVE to start winning.

 

[Longyac]

Mediocre 2011-2013
Horrible 2014-2016

But I think I get what you're saying.

Horrible 2010

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Horrible 2010

Yep

 

[Heisennberg]

I have generally considered Heisennberg to be mostly a troll, but he is dead on right here and I will be forced to give him a like for this post.

These HS guys want to go to the league and make big money. They will go to the programs that can get them there. Charlie got very good recruiting classes here even though he couldnt coach a lick, but he had a history of getting lots of guys to the next level. However, at some point you have to win. You cannot suck forever and expect any decent kids to beat down your doors to sign LOI's.
The LHN has been largely wasted by our continued suckage. We HAVE to start winning.

I mean, that's really all it is. Winning. Kids want to win, they want to go the next level, but most of them know the likely chances of making it in the nfl. So may as well have some fun in college and win some ball games. So the opportunity to win trophies is mighty appealing. Which, i think is pretty clear, because even if texas sucks, theyre still good to play for for a multitude of reasons, but those reasons arent resonating with kids, cause they want to win.

 

[Heisennberg]

Or pay wife beaters. We have not had any recently recruited players leave since CS was fired. We are going to hold them plus pull in the ringers. It's going to get ugly once Herman gets rolling.

You think kansas paid wifebeaters to be on their team?

I'm sure it'll be fine again once tx gets rolling, but who knows how long that'll take. I am wholly unimpressed with Herman's 2017 class but chalk all those whiffs to being late to the game. Until tx starts winning it wont be easy to convince someone to sign away their eligibility. Your last major bowl victory was almost a decade ago when the kids tx is recruiting now were in elementary school.

 

[JohnsBrother]

What is Pop Snyder's way? Fill your roster with a bunch of Jucos and overachieve at a school with lower expectations to compete for the conference once every few years. He's a great coach and perfect fit at a place like Kansas State but he's not churning out year after year anything that would be considered success at Texas.

But he has won eight out of 12 against the Longhorns since the formation of the Big 12. That's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[oldhorn2]

I mean, that's really all it is. Winning. Kids want to win, they want to go the next level, but most of them know the likely chances of making it in the nfl. So may as well have some fun in college and win some ball games.

Just when I think you get it....you dont. When these kids are stars and studs in HS they absolutely think they can make it in the NFL. They want to go where the coach will give them the best chance to get there. Perhaps a few ( say Jake Oliver for example) know the odds are against them, but we are talking about the 4 and 5 star guys that believe they are bullet proof and shoo ins so to speak. They think the right coach has that...uh...whatever it is that propels them to get there.The guys just going for the good college experience are not the ones that top the recruiters wish lists anyway.

 

[2300 Nueces]

There's more here than is being explained. I get it. They want to go to the NFL and the right coach and all that but when was the last time you strolled through South Houston, SE Dallas, etc.... Many of these guys know that the NFL is the end game but there is a lot a booster can do to grease the skids until they get there. There is too much money floating around not to attempt to sway a kids opinion especially if his parents say so.... It's obvious that schools like OU, Alabama, tOSU cheat... small state, small recruiting pool..... Come on, it's a numbers game. Texas should win a national title every third year splitting with a Cali then Florida school. The only way this doesn't happen is $$$.

 

[Heisennberg]

Just when I think you get it....you dont. When these kids are stars and studs in HS they absolutely think they can make it in the NFL. They want to go where the coach will give them the best chance to get there. Perhaps a few ( say Jake Oliver for example) know the odds are against them, but we are talking about the 4 and 5 star guys that believe they are bullet proof and shoo ins so to speak. They think the right coach has that...uh...whatever it is that propels them to get there.The guys just going for the good college experience are not the ones that top the recruiters wish lists anyway.

Many expect it for sure, some of them who have no business assuming that also expect it. But i think plenty of them have realistic views, and when they play in their first big boy game then a sense of reality sets in. Anyway sure they want to go where they get the best chance at making it at the next level, but many of them choose to play at places for other reasons. we've heard it all from having a coach they like the most to the comradrie they have with their peers, to playing time. money is big too but unfortunately we'll never really see the true seedy underbelly of that stuff.

There's more here than is being explained. I get it they want to go to the NFL and the right coach and all that but when was the last time you strolled through South Houston, SE Dallas, etc.... Many of these guys know that the NFL is the end game but there is a lot a booster can do to grease the skids until they get there. There is too much money floating around not to attempt to sway a kids opinion especially if his parents say so.... It's obvious that schools like OU, Alabama, tOSU cheat... small state, small recruiting pool..... Come on, it's a numbers game. Texas should win a national title every third year splitting with a Cali then Florida school. The only way this doesn't happen is $$$.

I dont know if Ou cheats but if they do, they need to do better. Cant sign more than one 5 star in any given class? Now you go and look at bama who has what like 5 #1 classes in a row and a bunch of their players are mysteriously driving $30k sports cars... okay on to something there. I bet if Ou was in the game of giving a bunch of cash cars to these cant miss 5 stars they'd be able to sign them. Hell they lost their 5 star LB this year because the l$u cash was too much to turn away from. OU needs to step up their bagman game.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Many expect it for sure, some of them who have no business assuming that also expect it. But i think plenty of them have realistic views, and when they play in their first big boy game then a sense of reality sets in. Anyway sure they want to go where they get the best chance at making it at the next level, but many of them choose to play at places for other reasons. we've heard it all from having a coach they like the most to the comradrie they have with their peers, to playing time. money is big too but unfortunately we'll never really see the true seedy underbelly of that stuff.



I dont know if Ou cheats but if they do, they need to do better. Cant sign more than one 5 star in any given class? Now you go and look at bama who has what like 5 #1 classes in a row and a bunch of their players are mysteriously driving $30k sports cars... okay on to something there. I bet if Ou was in the game of giving a bunch of cash cars to these cant miss 5 stars they'd be able to sign them. Hell they lost their 5 star LB this year because the l$u cash was too much to turn away from. OU needs to step up their bagman game.

I can understand your point of view, but as a Longhorn, it's like we imposed our own death penalty. Bama measures their runs in how long the cheating lasts and how long it takes to get back once they are caught. This is obviously wrong and for some reason it is allowed to exist. I am taking a broader look at our failure to win and it's not all self inflicted. This needs to become pay to play asap and make it legall so that the cheaters in the $ec and elsewhere are made to play fairly imo if the ncaa is not doing much. The nfl is looking to start a minor league and cfb should look no further than the d league as an example of what can happen.

 

[Superpup]

There's more here than is being explained. I get it they want to go to the NFL and the right coach and all that but when was the last time you strolled through South Houston, SE Dallas, etc.... Many of these guys know that the NFL is the end game but there is a lot a booster can do to grease the skids until they get there. There is too much money floating around not to attempt to sway a kids opinion especially if his parents say so.... It's obvious that schools like OU, Alabama, tOSU cheat... small state, small recruiting pool..... Come on, it's a numbers game. Texas should win a national title every third year splitting with a Cali then Florida school. The only way this doesn't happen is $$$.

You have zero proof the Buckeyes cheat you are just a hater, and by the way Ohio isn't a small state 7th most populated state and top 5 in college football recruits.Texas needs to start winning and Herman will get them going.

 

[HornsRuleU]

Look, this is not difficult to understand. Since we signed onto the LHN, the schools in the B12 and out of, have been doing extra things to lure players away from us.... It's not that difficult to see. We thought the lure of the LHN would be enough to lock up great classes. We were wrong. Look at Baylor, TCU, OSU etc... pre LHN. They were mediocre to poor sports schools. If for one second you think the Baylor scandal ends at the raping of coeds, you are a fool. The rape scandal is a smoke screen for the $$$'s being doled out. Once LHN and the money came into being, the other schools have had to "ramp up" recruiting tactics. This includes the SEC schools tOSU, Michigan, and more. I know I am going to get the na-sayers but look at the numbers since LHN and it's $$$. It's make it or break it time for many of these programs because the pie is getting smaller, so to speak. I think Tom Herman is well aware of this and has "keyed in" the big donors... I think Texas is now "all-in" as Coach Herman has seen and knows how this game is played. The NCAA is toothless. You think the NCAA is going to ever do anything to Texas? You're crazy if you think yes. Winning is coming and soon.

****One caveat, ou has always been a cheater and always will be.... We have been out of the loop for awhile so come next Feb. win or lose, "WE'LL BE BACK!"

****Second caveat, I never condone cheating but college football-basketball is dirty, real dirty. How can one expect to keep the money out of players hands when they make sooo much for these schools?

Some of what you're saying makes sense. How does Matt Rhule come in the FUBAR situation at Baylor and clean up, and yet Tom Herman totally whiffs? The contrast in 2016 W-L records doesn't completely explain that, and I suspect cash to players is involved.

However, any time you pretend that rape, covering up rape and silencing victims aren't as big a deal as $$$ to players, I have to question your values. Just a smokescreen?

As for the LHN, it provides a boost in two ways -- not just the extra dollars, but also greater exposure for the recruits & program. For the rare recruit who (already knows he) is interested in sports journalism, it's a huge attraction.

 

[Heisennberg]

I can understand your point of view, but as a Longhorn, it's like we imposed our own death penalty. Bama measures their runs in how long the cheating lasts and how long it takes to get back once they are caught. This is obviously wrong and for some reason it is allowed to exist. I am taking a broader look at our failure to win and it's not all self inflicted. This needs to become pay to play asap and make it legall so that the cheaters in the $ec and elsewhere are made to play fairly imo if the ncaa is not doing much. The nfl is looking to start a minor league and cfb should look no further than the d league as an example of what can happen.

This doesnt appear to be the age of 'winning, and winning the right way' because the only consistent winning is done by programs who are doing it the wrong way. And the only ones getting busted are the ones who make it obvious and dont cover their tracks. I mean, getting text messages released to the world that's just bad. At least the ncaa is pretending to care with their investigation of mississippi. The real issue is lack of enforcement, kind of like our border policy under the past administration. Those in power keep looking the other way and nobody is telling on each other, like it's one big dirty secret. I'm frankly surprised we dont hear more from former athletes or coaches or staffers about what really goes on. So the real issue is lack of enforcement because they dont seem to really care. ratings are higher than ever.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Some of what you're saying makes sense. How does Matt Rhule come in the FUBAR situation at Baylor and clean up, and yet Tom Herman totally whiffs? The contrast in 2016 W-L records doesn't completely explain that, and I suspect cash to players is involved.

However, any time you pretend that rape, covering up rape and silencing victims aren't as big a deal as $$$ to players, I have to question your values. Just a smokescreen?

As for the LHN, it provides a boost in two ways -- not just the extra dollars, but also greater exposure for the recruits & program. For the rare recruit who (already knows he) is interested in sports journalism, it's a huge attraction.

I'm not saying that cash payments are worse than rape! Not at all. I am saying that the NCAA does not care about the the behavior of the Baylor program. It's sickening. From my point of view, all Baylor has had to do is fire a really corrupt coach.... They haven't even been slapped on the wrist. Whatever they are doing and who ever is doing it is one of the best weasels I have ever seen operate because Bialor is getting out of this without much of any punishment.... 1/4 of revenues, please.

 

[mcw1946]

Obviously winning is the cure for recruiting. I think the facilities do impress high school recruits but I couldn't tell you how important it is. If you're in the SEC you might have to find a way to slip cash to the better players who are visiting other SEC teams. I believe (hope) UT can recruit well enough to compete without cheating. The LHN adds 15M to our annual earnings which is important but we DO bring in 120M+ a year which is more than anyone else. We should have facilities that are as good as anybody's out there. What I would like to see is the UT crowds generate the noise and enthusiasm that you see in the SEC. Just saying.............

 

[Roady]

FSU has enrolled (as an EE) the 2017 #1 DT in the nation...Marvin Wilson from Houston...and now has announced the commitment of a top 2019 DT, Lloyd Murray from Wichita Falls.

Teams from other states are cherry picking Texas...out of the top 10 2017 recruits from Texas...none committed to the Longhorns.

Got to get the top Texas kids.

 

[clob94]

I took 5 official recruiting visits to 5 powerhouse schools. I was offered improper gifts and/or money by 4 of the 5.
I grew up in an upper middle class home with both parents who were business owners. If they would offer me things, they offer almost every AA high school kid stuff.

 

[TX1972]

I took 5 official recruiting visits to 5 powerhouse schools. I was offered improper gifts and/or money by 4 of the 5.
I grew up in an upper middle class home with both parents who were business owners. If they would offer me things, they offer almost every AA high school kid stuff.

Was UT the 5th?

 

[2300 Nueces]

I took 5 official recruiting visits to 5 powerhouse schools. I was offered improper gifts and/or money by 4 of the 5.
I grew up in an upper middle class home with both parents who were business owners. If they would offer me things, they offer almost every AA high school kid stuff.

Thank You! Need I say more? It's sooo obvious that our recruiting tactics have been flanked by more and more cheating.

 

[2300 Nueces]

You have zero proof the Buckeyes cheat you are just a hater, and by the way Ohio isn't a small state 7th most populated state and top 5 in college football recruits.Texas needs to start winning and Herman will get them going.

Please, Arlington Texas has a larger population than Cinncinnati or Cleveland.... It's an afterthought in Texas.

 

[JoeAg]

Texas has not lost their appeal. They just need a top notch recruiter. Not sure if Herman is that guy. He might be. Time will tell, but in the mean time your facilities have to get upgraded.