How Art Bryles is gonna change football forever

[oldhorn2]

well....not necessarily Art bryles, but the HUO... of whatever forms is not going away.aTm started in the secsecsec with that offense and had huge success. Then, in true aggy fashion they went away from it. At any rate the secsecsec type defense doesnt seem to do any better against it than any team in the Big 12.

Bama beat Clemson.....but they couldnt stop them. Fact is, they had to win the game with special teams. Bama is a good team...not historically great, but very good and they won the natty. I am not sure if a full strenght Baylor or TCU might have given Bama all they could handle. As good as Bama's defense was, they gave up 550 yards to Clemson.Clemson ran 85 plays and averaged 6.5yds per play

I suspect this is not lost on bright minds in football right now.When Strong came in with Watson, swVA stood up and said it was disaster and I argued with him mightily...he was right and I was wrong.The game is going to change and big strong 250 lb linebackers are going to have to give way to a more athletically gifted bunch.
In order to win in the future you are going to have to score in a hurry and do what you can to slow down the other guy.

 

[DocAg]

well....not necessarily Art bryles, but the HUO... of whatever forms is not going away.aTm started in the secsecsec with that offense and had huge success. Then, in true aggy fashion they went away from it. At any rate the secsecsec type defense doesnt seem to do any better against it than any team in the Big 12.

Bama beat Clemson.....but they couldnt stop them. Fact is, they had to win the game with special teams. Bama is a good team...not historically great, but very good and they won the natty. I am not sure if a full strenght Baylor or TCU might have given Bama all they could handle. As good as Bama's defense was, they gave up 550 yards to Clemson.Clemson ran 85 plays and averaged 6.5yds per play

I suspect this is not lost on bright minds in football right now.When Strong came in with Watson, swVA stood up and said it was disaster and I argued with him mightily...he was right and I was wrong.The game is going to change and big strong 250 lb linebackers are going to have to give way to a more athletically gifted bunch.
In order to win in the future you are going to have to score in a hurry and do what you can to slow down the other guy.

I will agree and disagree with you to some degree. A good spread like Baylor runs is almost impossible to stop for ANY team. You are right that SEC teams like any other conference will allow a lot of points to them. However, the difference to me is that the really good SEC teams will get more stops than other teams, and the problems with good spread teams in the Big 12 is that they don't have a defense either. They can't slow down teams that are big up front and can pound the ball down your throat. They eat clock and wear you down in a different way. Alabama is not going to change what they do because it works for them. Baylor and TCU wouldn't be able to slow Alabama down any more than Bama would slow them down but they would be able to get a stop, or athletically their specials do make plays, get turnovers, etc. It's just hard to me to say that Bama is going to have to change when they keep winning. Bama ran up 473 yards of offense as well so what they do works as well. The Big 12 for all of their spread offenses hasn't blow the competition away in their bowl games the past few years. The SEC has done far better with their balanced attacks. I'm not sure they need to change.

 

[bubba2023]

Imo, the hurry up no huddle exploits some of the current rules of the game, but a talented well executed balanced offense of any kind is hard to stop. There is nothing new about that. It's still a game of execution, there are no magic schemes.

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

Albeit for safety for players (which is good) seems like some rule changes are a disadvantage to the defense. Go along with that the no huddle offense. Maybe a rule that would delay the snap or something even when theres no subbing on the offensive side. Or added mini timeouts (10-15 seconds in length) for the defense, say 1 per quarter.

 

[speedstrength]

Jimmys and Joes not Xs and Os. A QB that can do what Watson can do is very hard to stop. He made the LB's a step slower to react and he turned several sacks in to long first down runs. He has a strong arm and also has amazing touch on the ball.

 

[swVAHorn]

well....not necessarily Art bryles, but the HUO... of whatever forms is not going away.aTm started in the secsecsec with that offense and had huge success. Then, in true aggy fashion they went away from it. At any rate the secsecsec type defense doesnt seem to do any better against it than any team in the Big 12.

Bama beat Clemson.....but they couldnt stop them. Fact is, they had to win the game with special teams. Bama is a good team...not historically great, but very good and they won the natty. I am not sure if a full strenght Baylor or TCU might have given Bama all they could handle. As good as Bama's defense was, they gave up 550 yards to Clemson.Clemson ran 85 plays and averaged 6.5yds per play

I suspect this is not lost on bright minds in football right now.When Strong came in with Watson, swVA stood up and said it was disaster and I argued with him mightily...he was right and I was wrong.The game is going to change and big strong 250 lb linebackers are going to have to give way to a more athletically gifted bunch.
In order to win in the future you are going to have to score in a hurry and do what you can to slow down the other guy.

Thank you oldhorn......The offenses of today have all the advantages and the plodding 15 to 17 plays to score offenses are history. Unless the rules are changed to help the defenses out some. Special teams won Bama the title imo too. I think bailor or tcu at full strength give bama all they can handle and more.

I hope Texas is back in the conversation soon. With a QB it could be soon.

 

[westx]

Thank you oldhorn......The offenses of today have all the advantages and the plodding 15 to 17 plays to score offenses are history. Unless the rules are changed to help the defenses out some. Special teams won Bama the title imo too. I think bailor or tcu at full strength give bama all they can handle and more.

I hope Texas is back in the conversation soon. With a QB it could be soon.

I hope rules don't change. Innovative coaches have adapted. In order to be competitive, many coaches that don't have access to the top blue chip talent have made do with what they have. Talk about player safety, I don't see Saban(I like the dude BTW), complaining about player safety when his big bruisers beat the hell out of other players and injure them. I don't think Saban was concerned about player safety when they knocked Colt out of the NCG. Basketball has some similarities. Do you think Golden State is in favor of changing things because some people think that too many 3 pointers is a disadvantage to the defense? It is up to them to evolve their defense to shut down or impede the 3 point productivity.

 

[oldhorn2]

Saban is talking about player safety, but what he really wants time to adjust his big lumber guys out of there to give them a blow. He has the advantage right now because he is deeper in these guys than anyone. A HUNH offense does not allow him time to substitute.

 

[bubba2023]

I hope rules don't change. Innovative coaches have adapted. In order to be competitive, many coaches that don't have access to the top blue chip talent have made do with what they have. Talk about player safety, I don't see Saban(I like the dude BTW), complaining about player safety when his big bruisers beat the hell out of other players and injure them. I don't think Saban was concerned about player safety when they knocked Colt out of the NCG. Basketball has some similarities. Do you think Golden State is in favor of changing things because some people think that too many 3 pointers is a disadvantage to the defense? It is up to them to evolve their defense to shut down or impede the 3 point productivity.

I can respect the reasoning behind this argument, but I don't agree. New rules have already changed the game in all sports. Your first sentence is already out the window. You mean you hope current rules don't change? Well they will because they are constantly changing in all sports. Even if it isn't a rewrite of the rulebook, they are constantly changing how refs are to interpret the rules. This game is completely different than it was 30 years ago and it will be completely different in another 30 years.

Your 3 point analogy is a perfect example. It didn't always exist. It was added as a rule change and it completely changed the game. For better or worse is a matter of opinion, but you can't argue it's up to the players/coaches to adapt to rule changes when you are against rule changes.

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

I just wonder if Colt wouldnt have got hurt and the game went our way, if this topic would still be including Bama, Saban, BU, Briles......

 

[Bama_Teacher_inTX]

There needs to be some rule changes in college football I think, but offenses should be able to dictate the tempo. Defensive players are allowed to move around all they want before the snap while offensive players can't. That's their advantage. Offense should have the advantage of running up tempo.

What NEEDS to change is the illegal man downfield rule. They should go the NFL route. A lineman should only be able to be one yard downfield. I'm tired of teams getting away with having offensive lineman 8 yards down the field on big pass plays. Also, offenses need to be penalized more for pick plays.

 

[swVAHorn]

I hope rules don't change. Innovative coaches have adapted. In order to be competitive, many coaches that don't have access to the top blue chip talent have made do with what they have. Talk about player safety, I don't see Saban(I like the dude BTW), complaining about player safety when his big bruisers beat the hell out of other players and injure them. I don't think Saban was concerned about player safety when they knocked Colt out of the NCG. Basketball has some similarities. Do you think Golden State is in favor of changing things because some people think that too many 3 pointers is a disadvantage to the defense? It is up to them to evolve their defense to shut down or impede the 3 point productivity.

I wasn't arguing they should be changed. Although I don't want football to be whoever has the ball last wins every game. Like Bubba says right above in this thread.....the rules change all the time. I personally wish the defense would get a few things called that arent called enough..HOLDING being the biggest by far.....The game today is about OFFENSE only......from how fast the game is played to who can substitute. Just doesn't seem fair to the defense. WRs pushing off all the time is another thing that annoys me.

Anyway, I wasn't arguing it should be changed......I was saying unless rules are changed the Offense has all the advantages. So not using them is a way to get fired.

 

[swVAHorn]

There needs to be some rule changes in college football I think, but offenses should be able to dictate the tempo. Defensive players are allowed to move around all they want before the snap while offensive players can't. That's their advantage. Offense should have the advantage of running up tempo.

What NEEDS to change is the illegal man downfield rule. They should go the NFL route. A lineman should only be able to be one yard downfield. I'm tired of teams getting away with having offensive lineman 8 yards down the field on big pass plays. Also, offenses need to be penalized more for pick plays.

I agree about illegal man downfield and the picks. True.

 

[westx]

I wasn't arguing they should be changed. Although I don't want football to be whoever has the ball last wins every game. Like Bubba says right above in this thread.....the rules change all the time. I personally wish the defense would get a few things called that arent called enough..HOLDING being the biggest by far.....The game today is about OFFENSE only......from how fast the game is played to who can substitute. Just doesn't seem fair to the defense. WRs pushing off all the time is another thing that annoys me.
I wasn't arguing it should be changed......I was saying unless rules are changed the Offense has all the advantages. So not using them is a way to get fired.

swVa, I get where you are coming from. I was just making a general observation and responding to yours and other posts in this thread. You are right about games being like a track meet and whoever has the ball last wins. I don't want that either, but, I would be willing to bet with absolute certainty that defensive coaches will find a way to slow them down. I am one of those that don't like a lot of tampering and let the evolution occur naturally. However, when you have freaks of nature like VY and D. Watson, even the most brilliant defense will be at a disadvantage.

 

[bubba2023]

Really and truly nothing is going to change unless the public were to make the stance that they are tired of seeing all offense and no defense. While some of us are already tired of it, I don't think the general public is. Even outside of the rules in the name of safety, they were already tweaking in favor of the offense because that's what the public wanted. It's all a matter of opinion, but there is no adapting or evolving for the defense if the public wants points because decision makers will keep giving offenses the advantage.

 

[westx]

Really and truly nothing is going to change unless the public were to make the stance that they are tired of seeing all offense and no defense. While some of us are already tired of it, I don't think the general public is. Even outside of the rules in the name of safety, they were already tweaking in favor of the offense because that's what the public wanted. It's all a matter of opinion, but there is no adapting or evolving for the defense if the public wants points because decision makers will keep giving offenses the advantage.

bubba, honest question. I just want to advance this discussion. Do you mind listing rules that you consider are favorable to the offense? bamateacher's post above had a great point that gets overlooked whereby the defense gets "movement" as an advantage.

 

[bubba2023]

The myriad of safety rules first off. Whether it's protecting the QB or the WR or any ball handler. Stuff like targeting defenseless receivers, helmet to helmet contact, horse collar tackles, roughing the passer. I am only 31 and all of these have come in my lifetime.

Other things like how illegal contact and PI is to be called. The interpretation has changed over the years.

Here is a list I found of all the actual rule changes for the NFL, and I imagine college has kept pace with most of these.
Link

Not saying there hasn't defensive rule changes because there have. It's just my opinion that the current way the game is setup and refereed the offense is favored.

 

[Bama_Teacher_inTX]

bubba, honest question. I just want to advance this discussion. Do you mind listing rules that you consider are favorable to the offense? bamateacher's post above had a great point that gets overlooked whereby the defense gets "movement" as an advantage.

I can't think of a rule off the top of my head that favors offense, I just think the rules that are in place need better enforcement. A WR has to do something egregious to get a pass interference call, while sometimes it's called on defenders who barely make contact. The only rule in my opinion that needs changing is the linemen downfield rule. They should get one yard, and that's it.

One of the TD's Ole Miss got on us was complete garbage. Chad Kelly rolled out of the pocket, than decided to run. And offensive lineman saw that and he took off down the field to block. Our safety responded the way he should have by coming up to make a play on Kelly. When he sees the lineman come downfield, that is his key to come up. Kelly ended up spotting a WR wide open of course and got an 70 yard TD. THAT is the kind of play that pisses me off. That Ole Miss lineman was 8 yards down the field. THAT is the stuff Coach Saban should be bitching about, not the up tempo offense.

 

[bubba2023]

Here is a article regarding defensive holding and illegal contact. This is the NFL but college typically mirrors on a lot of this stuff.

Link

 

[swVAHorn]

I can't think of a rule off the top of my head that favors offense, I just think the rules that are in place need better enforcement. A WR has to do something egregious to get a pass interference call, while sometimes it's called on defenders who barely make contact. The only rule in my opinion that needs changing is the linemen downfield rule. They should get one yard, and that's it.

One of the TD's Ole Miss got on us was complete garbage. Chad Kelly rolled out of the pocket, than decided to run. And offensive lineman saw that and he took off down the field to block. Our safety responded the way he should have by coming up to make a play on Kelly. When he sees the lineman come downfield, that is his key to come up. Kelly ended up spotting a WR wide open of course and got an 70 yard TD. THAT is the kind of play that pisses me off. That Ole Miss lineman was 8 yards down the field. THAT is the stuff Coach Saban should be bitching about, not the up tempo offense.

The offense determines the speed of the game. The offense determines substitutions. Offense is protected from physical play from the defense. The Offense gets by with Holding, Illegal men downfield, Picks, Pushing off by WRs. NOT enforcing the rules is favoring the offense.

The defense gets to move......big deal. MOST rules favor the offense.