How Did We Get Here?

[clob94]

I'll start by saying that even I, a guy that believed in my soul that Charlie was/is a good man, just not experienced enough to handle the daily grind that this beast that Texas football is..... but even I didn't see something like this coming. If what I'm hearing is true, he's being put in a position to fail. And as much as I'd have like having someone else as our head coach two years ago, the way he's being treated right now by our administration (if true) is total bullsh!t. Nobody deserves this.

It's a no win for him. It's like the guy at your office that the boss wants to fire, but can't "fire", so he makes life so miserable that the guy just quits. That's total and complete bullsh!t in my eyes. If they don't want him here, then step the fvck up and let him go. Don't torture the poor dude. Ya, we've stunk it up on the field and much of that is on him and the staff, but to pretend he has your full support and then to truly NOT give him your full support is chicken sh!t.

And I HATE having to say this but, dadgummit someone has to: the admin is afraid to fire him for politically correct reasons. Period. But what looks WORSE than fire a guy after two crappy seasons, what really will piss people off like me and probably most of you is-- lip service.
"Well, we can't fire him after two seasons even though it's been done at other schools before because........ well gosh.... we'll look like racists. And we don't want to look like that. Sooooo let's just leave him alone for another year and say we're all behind him and after another crappy season we can feel better about firing him and maybe, just maybe we won't have so many fingers pointing at us because we gave the guy a chance."

Which looks more BS to you? Either FIRE the guy, own it, and move on, OR, get your a$$es behind him 100% and open your damn check book. You can't have it both ways.

Honest to God, at this point, this clown dumpster that we have on our hands (we're being laughed at by DJ b!thct!ts and the gallery of smegma in Howdytown, OU is too busy playing for a natty to notice or care, but every other school in Texas is driving by, pointing and laughing. It's time for Admiral Chancellor McRaven to go full frogman on the Board of Regents and get a SEAL choke hold on some of these Rick Perry appointed deushecanoes. And as far as the meddling BMD's are concerned-- stop already. Ya, you're rich. Ya, you own a jet. Ya, you've given lots of money. But no matter how much money you give, no matter how big you think your c0ck is--- you didn't get offered a scholarship to play....... and this sort of vicarious involvement with the program doesn't make you an honorary athlete. You are fvcking up my university. Stop with the phone calls to Herman....... Yes, at least two BMD's have called Herman and told him to stay put for another year at Houston because the Texas job would be his next year. Who the fvck do you think you are that you can pick up the phone and call Herman and tell him such things? Wtf is wrong with you??? Christ on crutches man------- you're a BOOSTER! You don't make policy!

Too many roosters in this hen house. Admiral, I implore you----- it's time to stand up and start issuing fatwas on big money donors and regents. Get their sh!t together please. You swing the biggest stick at UT. You win ANY cage match against these old farts. Flex your muscles please and put an end to all this crap now!

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

And this MF-er!

Hook'em

 

[BringBackRoyal]

There are things I don't agree with you on -- in that I think that Charlie very well could still succeed here, if he didn't have to worry about dislodging all the knives in his back -- but you're goddamned right that he is being stabbed in the back by a bunch of rich old f*cks who think the rest of us are too stupid to notice.

Fenves is getting absolutely slaughtered on his Twitter feed right now. He's probably not the one to blame, but none of the ones who are most to blame have stuck their necks out on Twitter, so he'll take the fire for them.

 

[swVAHorn]

And this MF-er!

Hook'em

Mack Brown didn't have a damn thing to do with the hiring of OC for the 2015-2016 Texas Longhorns. Quit.

 

[DHHorn]

It's becoming more clear that it will take someone like Mack who can get the bmds on his side to succeed. Apparently they will get their way one way or another. Patterson went rogue and now everyone is paying for it.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

Mack Brown didn't have a damn thing to do with the hiring of OC for the 2015-2016 Texas Longhorns. Quit.

It started long time before he left as tio why this program is the way it is with him laying down on the job that he was supposed to do, and that's what Strong inherited and now Strong bailing water that MB put him into before he took the job with all of MB punks that didn't want to play or go to class and carrying guns and getting into trouble and most of all not giving a damn if they played for Texas to begin with as they was getting a 1st class free ride sitting on the bench and now the aftermath is that he basically had to start over and rebuilt the whole team and fight the fans, critics, Belmont and now fighting Belmont agin for what he needs



Hook'em

 

[LonghornMM]

FB, stop blaming Mack Brown for Strong's failures and inability to get this ship righted. There is no excuse for the poor W-L record in his two years at Texas. You've beaten this horse to death.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

FB, Strong's failures have nothing to do with Mack Brown.

Man, I just don't see how you can really argue that. Strong has made some poor moves and no doubt owns part of the blame for the last two seasons, but I just don't see how anyone can say that Mack didn't in fact leave quite a mess for the next guy to clean up.

 

[LonghornMM]

The argument that Mack left no talent for Strong isn't fair or accurate. Yes, Mack needed to go, and there were some things that needed to be cleaned up. However, if before Strong was hired we were told that his record after two years would be 11-14, a blow out bowl loss in year one, no bowl in year two and an unimpressive recruiting class so far this year, would we have found that acceptable and still hired him? I think not. Strong should have shown more progress, regardless of what he inherited, by now. This was not a good hire and is incredibly embarrassing for The University of Texas.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

The argument that Mack left no talent for Strong isn't fair or accurate. Yes, Mack needed to go, and there were some things that needed to be cleaned up. However, if before Strong was hired we were told that his record after two years would be 11-14, a blow out bowl loss in year one, no bowl in year two and an unimpressive recruiting class so far this year, would we have found that acceptable and still hired him? I think not. Strong should have shown more progress, regardless of what he inherited, by now. This was not a good hire and is incredibly embarrassing for The University of Texas.

Will do MM! My lips will never mention it again...........ever.....honestly!



Hook'em

 

[BringBackRoyal]

After this coming April, two out of the last three NFL Drafts will show that Mack's last classes were not nearly as talented as advertised. Even in the very worst years of Texas football, we've at least had someone drafted going back to 1938.

Furthermore, even assuming that Mack did leave behind copious talent, it was not even close to evenly distributed on the roster. Just look at the criminal neglect of and/or failure at OL and QB recruiting in his last years. Even if everything else had gone well, you are not going to win at a high level with the mess that at QB and OL that Mack left behind.

 

[swVAHorn]

After this coming April, two out of the last three NFL Drafts will show that Mack's last classes were not nearly as talented as advertised. Even in the very worst years of Texas football, we've at least had someone drafted going back to 1938.

Furthermore, even assuming that Mack did leave behind copious talent, it was not even close to evenly distributed on the roster. Just look at the criminal neglect of and/or failure at OL and QB recruiting in his last years. Even if everything else had gone well, you are not going to win at a high level with the mess that at QB and OL that Mack left behind.

I am not saying Mack left a championship undefeated kind of team behind. But THIS is not Macks fault. I was specifically telling FBH that the hiring of this OC hasn't got a damn thing to do with Mack, I stand by that statement. Strong SHOULD HAVE HIRED THE RIGHT COACHES TO BEGIN WITH. Strong did that, NOT Mack. I am so sick of the Mack fault crap. And FB acting like Macks players were like Miami of the 80s is laughable. They didn't get in anymore trouble than anyone else did.

Mack missed on some players and especially QB, no doubt. But the man WON A LOT OF GAMES FOR MY LONGHORNS. I am sick of the fans not respecting him for what he did. He had 1 losing season.........1

 

[swVAHorn]

Charlie Strong was in charge of hiring the best staff possible when he first got the job. HE DID NOT. That somehow this is Mack Browns fault is a damn joke. He should have done his homework and knew what he wanted to do. 5 million plus a year is why it is Charlie Strongs fault who charlie strong hired or hires.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

I am not saying Mack left a championship undefeated kind of team behind. But THIS is not Macks fault. I was specifically telling FBH that the hiring of this OC hasn't got a damn thing to do with Mack, I stand by that statement. Strong SHOULD HAVE HIRED THE RIGHT COACHES TO BEGIN WITH. Strong did that, NOT Mack. I am so sick of the Mack fault crap. And FB acting like Macks players were like Miami of the 80s is laughable. They didn't get in anymore trouble than anyone else did.

Mack missed on some players and especially QB, no doubt. But the man WON A LOT OF GAMES FOR MY LONGHORNS. I am sick of the fans not respecting him for what he did. He had 1 losing season.........1

I agree with ya on some of what you said, but, a lotta others would not. you know how it is sw, People love ya when ya winning and don't know ya when ya losing, evidently that 1 losing season was enough according to the people who write the chks to get rid of him, I doubt that there would be any coach that could go0 very long at UT and that's probally why we had troubles getting a coach when he got fired and had to take Strong, I guess the question is would it worth 8 mil to put up with the powers that be to coach here..and have to listen to their BS...



Hook'em

 

[Longyac]

There are 3 guys left on campus from Mack's 2013 class.

 

[swVAHorn]

There are 3 guys left on campus from Mack's 2013 class.

Do any of these players HIRE coaches?

 

[ryan_sublett]

Here's the deal though. This kind of crap has been going on long before Strong even got there. Most could see Mack was fading but there was enough loyalist to keep him in power. Then you had a group try to put a back room deal for Saban which pissed the Mack folks off, and probably made the eventual breakup uglier than needed to be.

We hire Patterson which turns out to be a disaster, he hires Strong. As soon as the hire of Strong is announced MCcombs intended or not makes himself look bad (some might say racist)

So this damn thing was a dumpster fire long before Strong got here and continued to get worse. I don't know if Strong can coach or not. He was doomed before he started.

 

[ffineastaus]

I hope Charlie is successful and stays, but what if he is not? And regardless the admin along with rich boosters need to look what they did and will start doing differently. I'm afraid if they dont, might as well start now, this might be a long dark period in Longhorn athletics. It's more than just spending big money for a HC. I'm afraid if any one like a Harbaugh or Saban where to even talk about coming here,.the terms and conditions would be so hard for the AD and regents to swallow it would never happen. It's more than $8mm for those guys, but the financial follow through to right the ship and put in place a program that can attract it's share of future NFL talent. That should be the only goal, anything less is half assed as we see now.

 

[Cotton #12]

I am not saying Mack left a championship undefeated kind of team behind. But THIS is not Macks fault. I was specifically telling FBH that the hiring of this OC hasn't got a damn thing to do with Mack, I stand by that statement. Strong SHOULD HAVE HIRED THE RIGHT COACHES TO BEGIN WITH. Strong did that, NOT Mack. I am so sick of the Mack fault crap. And FB acting like Macks players were like Miami of the 80s is laughable. They didn't get in anymore trouble than anyone else did.

Mack missed on some players and especially QB, no doubt. But the man WON A LOT OF GAMES FOR MY LONGHORNS. I am sick of the fans not respecting him for what he did. He had 1 losing season.........1

I agree,like Mack or not,he won a National Championship and played in another and 9 or 10 win seasons look good right now.The air went out of the Balloon when Colt went down in the Championship game.Texas had a major coaching Staff turnover under Mack and the coaches that were hired were not as good as the ones that left in recruiting or player development. So we move on to Strong and what do we have now?

 

[ffineastaus]

I've heard stories of the days when Texas played Alabama back in the 60's but by the time Colt played them the Arms Race of College Football as I call it was in full swing. It's not one thing but everything as now they're not getting the top coaches and top recruits. Patterson just magnified this with all his shitty cheap skate antics while cutting Charlie's expenses to the bone. But being number 1 in revenue generated and number 6 in amount spent for football is likely the root of the problem. No excuse for Texas as they have the money and guess who is number 1 in amount spent as they even issue bonds to help pay for the best facilities. Want to play at that level, then be prepared to spend at that level and why on earth did they ever give up that location for a medical school which they could have built elsewhere, anywhere but next to the stadium.

 

[Longyac]

I've heard stories of the days when Texas played Alabama back in the 60's but by the time Colt played them the Arms Race of College Football as I call it was in full swing. It's not one thing but everything as now they're not getting the top coaches and top recruits. Patterson just magnified this with all his shitty cheap skate antics while cutting Charlie's expenses to the bone. But being number 1 in revenue generated and number 6 in amount spent for football is likely the root of the problem. No excuse for Texas as they have the money and guess who is number 1 in amount spent as they even issue bonds to help pay for the best facilities. Want to play at that level, then be prepared to spend at that level and why on earth did they ever give up that location for a medical school which they could have built elsewhere, anywhere but next to the stadium.

How is between I-35 and Red River/Trinity south of MLK next to the stadium? And how exactly does that effect football performance? UT is an academic institution after all.

 

[ffineastaus]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to eventually stretch up north of MLK and closer to the stadium. Just checked and that's part of the plan. Chose, do you want a medical school or room for more athletic facilities in that area?

 

[Longyac]

Here's the deal though. This kind of crap has been going on long before Strong even got there. Most could see Mack was fading but there was enough loyalist to keep him in power. Then you had a group try to put a back room deal for Saban which pissed the Mack folks off, and probably made the eventual breakup uglier than needed to be.

We hire Patterson which turns out to be a disaster, he hires Strong. As soon as the hire of Strong is announced MCcombs intended or not makes himself look bad (some might say racist)

So this damn thing was a dumpster fire long before Strong got here and continued to get worse. I don't know if Strong can coach or not. He was doomed before he started.

Agree. Mack started mail it in around 2006 which is why there was no OL in 2010 and Texas went 5-7.
Then Mack kept switching systems to that of whoever beat him last. Demanding a power run game out of Spread personel. Then spent a couple year recruiting for power run and then wanted to go back spread. That led to Mack's demise.

BMD promised themselves and the fan base they could money whip Saban. When that didn't happened they got the powers that be the delay Mack's departure until after the bowl game to see if Mack could save his job with a win over Oregon. Didn't happen. Strong is hired 1/4 which after JuCo signing and 4 weeks before LOI day. Allowing other teams 5 weeks to recruit against a HC less Texas. Also, most coaching changes movement had already happened by this time so there were slim pickings to hire from.

Texas didn't allow Strong to bring his #1 guy Hurtt do the his show cause from his Miami days. Strong get rebuffed by both Herman and Morris as both feel a HC position was next for them, they were right. So, strong falls back on Watson as LOI is closing fast. But he hired a spread OL coach and Watson runs WCO. Then the AD refuses to take care of that OC so the OC has bad blood with the program and is trying to coach something that isn't his system. The AD cuts GA salaries to half of what Kansas pays thier GAs. AD pisses off both fans and BMDs. Fires Strong's media guy in exchange for favorable coverage by a few local newspaper guys.

Now we get to Strong's screw ups like keeping Chambers and hiring Koening for Texas connections. Not replacing Watson after the bowl game, etc.

Add in a bunch of OL that wouldn't put down the hippy lettuce and go to class. Mack taking only one QB in Swoopes' class when Barrett was begging to come. The year he signed no DL.

This getting to hard to take. I'll try to write more later.

 

[outhereincali]

I agree with BBR. Let me state the specifics of what MB left coach Strong. There were 14 seniors among the 70 or so players who got significant playing time and NONE of them are worth a da**. I'm sympathetic about Jon Gray hes played his heart out but he's never completely recovered from that torn achilles two years ago. Two years ago Texas had no Draft picks for the first time since 1939 and I don't see anyone getting drafted this year either.

And next year's ssenior class looks even worse. Somebody started a thread a few days ago about the very early depth chart on next year's team. There are ten among the seventy or so played listed. I might need to check out a second time but all I see that's any good is Hassan Ridgeway.

And our senior class let our young players down not just on the field but in the locker room as well. Imo what this means is that our fros and sophomores are going to have to learn how to win on their own.

And it wasn't just MB's recruiting. The coaching changes he made after the 2010 season were an unmitigated disaster, recruiting, checking out a prospects character, and player development. No one wants to consider this.

 

[outhereincali]

And as far as this year's recruiting class not looking good this commit list doesn't look too bad to me. We seem to have some commits from some good receivers and Lord knows we need those. And at this time a year ago we didn't have a lot of commits. And everyone thought that a&m was kicking our b***. Everyone said Malik was going to be an aggie. Didn't happen. Best of all we got a lot of 4* commits after Malik signed. We've been so used to MB getting all his commits early we found out you can still do great late in the season. I think we will close strong again. And don't forget with this year's class we will finally have the full 85 scholarships for the first time in a few years.

 

[ryan_sublett]

Agree. Mack started mail it in around 2006 which is why there was no OL in 2010 and Texas went 5-7.
Then Mack kept switching systems to that of whoever beat him last. Demanding a power run game out of Spread personel. Then spent a couple year recruiting for power run and then wanted to go back spread. That led to Mack's demise.

BMD promised themselves and the fan base they could money whip Saban. When that didn't happened they got the powers that be the delay Mack's departure until after the bowl game to see if Mack could save his job with a win over Oregon. Didn't happen. Strong is hired 1/4 which after JuCo signing and 4 weeks before LOI day. Allowing other teams 5 weeks to recruit against a HC less Texas. Also, most coaching changes movement had already happened by this time so there were slim pickings to hire from.

Texas didn't allow Strong to bring his #1 guy Hurtt do the his show cause from his Miami days. Strong get rebuffed by both Herman and Morris as both feel a HC position was next for them, they were right. So, strong falls back on Watson as LOI is closing fast. But he hired a spread OL coach and Watson runs WCO. Then the AD refuses to take care of that OC so the OC has bad blood with the program and is trying to coach something that isn't his system. The AD cuts GA salaries to half of what Kansas pays thier GAs. AD pisses off both fans and BMDs. Fires Strong's media guy in exchange for favorable coverage by a few local newspaper guys.

Now we get to Strong screw ups like keeping Chambers and hiring Koening for Texas connections. Not replacing Watson after the bowl game, etc.

Add in a bunch of OL that wouldn't put down the hippy lettuce and go to class. Mack taking only one QB in Swoopes' class when Barrett was begging to come. The year he signed no DL.

This getting to hard to take. I'll try to write more later.

I think they could of gotten Saban. Had they had everything in order, decided Mack wouldn't be back, and made the move I think they could of gotten it done. That's not what happened ovbiously

 

[ffineastaus]

Saban was the gold standard for sure but he likely came in and TOLD Patterson what he needs beyond his own compensation, funds for assistants that UT probably doesn't even have, higher salaries for coordinators and funds committed for newer facilities and given Patterson's actions he probably crawled under the table. Saban can get it done but without a major financial follow through, he knows it becomes much harder. UT might be number 1 in football revenue but is number 6 in amount spent where poor Alabama is number 1--he's running a pre-nfl factory in the middle of a talent rich area where these players are born.

 

[ryan_sublett]

Saban was the gold standard for sure but he likely came in and TOLD Patterson what he needs beyond his own compensation, funds for assistants that UT probably doesn't even have, higher salaries for coordinators and funds committed for newer facilities and given Patterson's actions he probably crawled under the table. Saban can get it done but without a major financial follow through, he knows it becomes much harder. UT might be number 1 in football revenue but is number 6 in amount spent where poor Alabama is number 1--he's running a pre-nfl factory in the middle of a talent rich area where these players are born.

Texas was going after Saban before Patterson. Odds are had he come they would of given him a lot of input on the new AD. They botched the handling bad though and have continued to botch things.

 

[ffineastaus]

Just checked and there are several stories in the net, but the Dept. Of Education (does this have any thing to do with academics) but in 2013 Alabama spent the most at $41mm where Texas was actually 9th spending only $27mm. With $14mm extra, that pays for lots including debt service for debt service for "facilities bonds." Build it and they will come.

 

[outhereincali]

There are 127 teams in Div1.

I don't know this for a fact but I'll bet we were the only that played three NYS teams.

 

[ffineastaus]

If the powers that be really want Saban here is a close second and he comes to the 40 Acres several times a year--Les Miles. His school treated him like shit and Les comes to see his daughter swim at UT. He's a great coach and could recruit the hell out of east Texas and Louisiana. And UT can out spend the near bankrupt state of Louisiana where his demands wouldn't be that steep.

 

[Longyac]

If the powers that be really want Saban here is a close second and he comes to the 40 Acres several times a year--Les Miles. His school treated him like shit and Les comes to see his daughter swim at UT. He's a great coach and could recruit the hell out of east Texas and Louisiana. And UT can out spend the near bankrupt state of Louisiana where his demands wouldn't be that steep.

You do know that if Les had lost to A&M, this year, he would have been fired? Les' only Natty was with Saban's guys. He went 0 for against Mack while at OSU.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

If the powers that be really want Saban here is a close second and he comes to the 40 Acres several times a year--Les Miles.

Good God. Not no, but hell no.

 

[Longyac]

Agree. Mack started mail it in around 2006 which is why there was no OL in 2010 and Texas went 5-7.
Then Mack kept switching systems to that of whoever beat him last. Demanding a power run game out of Spread personel. Then spent a couple year recruiting for power run and then wanted to go back spread. That led to Mack's demise.

BMD promised themselves and the fan base they could money whip Saban. When that didn't happened they got the powers that be the delay Mack's departure until after the bowl game to see if Mack could save his job with a win over Oregon. Didn't happen. Strong is hired 1/4 which after JuCo signing and 4 weeks before LOI day. Allowing other teams 5 weeks to recruit against a HC less Texas. Also, most coaching changes movement had already happened by this time so there were slim pickings to hire from.

Texas didn't allow Strong to bring his #1 guy Hurtt do the his show cause from his Miami days. Strong get rebuffed by both Herman and Morris as both feel a HC position was next for them, they were right. So, strong falls back on Watson as LOI is closing fast. But he hired a spread OL coach and Watson runs WCO. Then the AD refuses to take care of that OC so the OC has bad blood with the program and is trying to coach something that isn't his system. The AD cuts GA salaries to half of what Kansas pays thier GAs. AD pisses off both fans and BMDs. Fires Strong's media guy in exchange for favorable coverage by a few local newspaper guys.

Now we get to Strong's screw ups like keeping Chambers and hiring Koening for Texas connections. Not replacing Watson after the bowl game, etc.

Add in a bunch of OL that wouldn't put down the hippy lettuce and go to class. Mack taking only one QB in Swoopes' class when Barrett was begging to come. The year he signed no DL.

This getting to hard to take. I'll try to write more later.

Adding on to this...

Next would be staff changes.

Next year's Sr on offense will have had 4/5 OCs and systems

2016 Gilbert
2015 Norvell/Traylor
2014 Watson/Wickline
2013-2014 Major
2012 Harsin

DC isn't much better

Bedford
Robinson
Diaz

 

[MiccoMacey]

From an outsider's perspective:

Could it be that the reason Texas hasn't had tons of people drafted by the NFL as of late has more to do with Charlie Strong and his coaching staff not properly developing the talent that is on campus? And to some extent, that maybe Mack Brown and his last staff not developing the talent as well?

And by properly, I mean putting them in the right places and positions to succeed, driving home the Importance of proper technique, etc.

Because most of these kids were wanted by other, major DI programs. It seems to me other coaches thought these kids were talented enough to play DI football coming out of high school. That says possibly the talent is there, but the coaching isn't.

Thoughts?