NFL combine vs high school combines

[bubba2023]

Now that high school recruiting has become such a big industry and hold their own combines each year I always have the same question. Why do these recruiting combines test better than their NFL counterpart?

Does anyone else notice this? It just seems to me that results from events like The Opening have these high school recruits putting up some impressive #s and then as the NFL combine goes by the #s just don't reconcile. I mean future NFL players aren't slower than high school players. Do these events inflate #s just to get more buzz, or are their testing methods just different that yield differing results? Or maybe I just notice the exceptions and assume it's the norm?

 

[clob94]

Link to combine data results so we can see it and call bs if they are?

 

[bubba2023]

I don't have specifics so it may just all be in my head.

I remember Malik Jefferson running a 4.3(something) at the high school level combine, and he just tested at 4.52 at the NFL. I doubt very seriously he is actually slower today than he was then.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Why do these recruiting combines test better than their NFL counterpart?

You're assuming they do. Why do you think HS has better equipment than NFL (a billion $ industry)?

Do these events inflate #s

Yes! Have you not noticed that even in HS programs their height is exaggerated. I'm sure the same goes for college.

 

[bubba2023]

I know team program rosters height/weight #s are exaggerated. They probably are in the NFL as well, but that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about the laser timed 40s at these recruiting events that don't seem to be duplicated when it's NFL combine time.

 

[weevilcatch]

You're assuming they do. Why do you think HS has better equipment than NFL (a billion $ industry)?



Yes! Have you not noticed that even in HS programs their height is exaggerated. I'm sure the same goes for college.

5-9 in high school is 6-0

4.85 40 in high school is 4.5

Shit like that...

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I am talking about the laser timed 40s at these recruiting events that don't seem to be duplicated when it's NFL combine time.

I'm going to have to say the HS times are BS and the NFL are more accurate. I mean we're talking about teams investing millions into a player vs a college recruiting a HS player. I'd think the owners/gm's want accurate as could be times, height, weight, flexibility, wing span, hand size etc...

Also maybe some of these HS players were skinnier at the time. I'd assume most mature and put on weight and muscle when in college. That could be why they're "slower" (I'm shrugging my shoulders).

I'm just making up shit on the last point because I can't answer your question about HS times. I just assume that the NFL is more professional at times because more money is put into drafting a Pro.

 

[oldhorn2]

seems simple to me....a 205 lb Malik is faster than a 235 lb Malik, no matter the strength and conditioning. Anyway....just ask Speedstrength to explain it to us. He might be a bit more acurate than me considering he has education and experience on his side -vs- simply bullshit on my side...

 

[bubba2023]

seems simple to me....a 205 lb Malik is faster than a 235 lb Malik, no matter the strength and conditioning. Anyway....just ask Speedstrength to explain it to us. He might be a bit more acurate than me considering he has education and experience on his side -vs- simply bullshit on my side...

That may be the explanation but aren't NFL players way faster than high school players? I mean the game doesn't slow down as you reach higher levels.

 

[speedstrength]

3 ways to time. FAT (full automatic timing), Hand Start Auto Stop and Hand Timing. FAT timing systems are expensive and high schools can't afford to use them so they use hand times. If you do hand times you are supposed to correct them. Hand times are only accurate to the 10th of a second not the 100th. Corrected hand times taken on a stopwatch is should be rounded up and then .24 seconds should be added to the rounded time. So Malik's corrected hand time from high school should be 4.64.

Another reason guys run a tad bit slower at the combine is the surface and the start. A lot of the super fast times are on a track surface, The NFL combine is turf. The start is also really funky. They decided that since they were standardizing everything else they also would standardize the start. They guy who suggested it had size 10 shoes. That's why the start is really bunched up for most of the bigger guys.

 

[bubba2023]

How are the 40s timed at these recruiting events like the opening? Are they handtimed?

 

[speedstrength]

Nike combines were hand start auto stop. I did the combine for the US Army All American game and it was hand timed. I saw some guys start and stop their watch with the thumb.

 

[clob94]

Nike combines were hand start auto stop. I did the combine for the US Army All American game and it was hand timed. I saw some guys start and stop their watch with the thumb.

So um..... you're probably going to have to explain why starting and stopping with your thumb is not cool.

I can tell you from experience that Texas, under everybody's favorite wine sipping coach, did not fudge the numbers on height, weight, 40 times etc. Except when you were a freshman...... he made you and inch shorter and a few pounds lighter and posted your 40 times as slower than they really were.

Why..... you ask? Simple----- under his tutelage, you grew, got bigger and faster........

 

[Mister Moses]

Everyone is elite according to the guru’s on recruiting sites. I like reading all that speculation for fun. Why are they experts? The players I care about are the obvious ones. Earl Campbell and the can’t miss players.
I llove the UCF player Griffin I think. He’s my #1.

 

[LonghornMM]

So um..... you're probably going to have to explain why starting and stopping with your thumb is not cool.

I can tell you from experience that Texas, under everybody's favorite wine sipping coach, did not fudge the numbers on height, weight, 40 times etc. Except when you were a freshman...... he made you and inch shorter and a few pounds lighter and posted your 40 times as slower than they really were.

Why..... you ask? Simple----- under his tutelage, you grew, got bigger and faster........

Shocked. Shocked, I tell you that Mackovic did this!

 

[UTGrad87]

There are some things I prefer to do with my thumb . . . but I cant talk about them on this board!

 

[speedstrength]

Thumb has really poor coordination and it's slow. Index finger is much faster. When timing a forty you stand at the finish line. You start the clock on first movement. Then stand at the finish line. You close one eye and look across the finish line almost like you are looking down the sighting a gun. As soon as you see something cross the line you stop the watch. I have been at combines where they watch the runner all the way down the track and anticipate the finish. That's how 5 flat guys end up with 4.7 hand times. I taught my guys how the spot a weak timer so they could pick his line. I had them wear long sleeve green under armour shirts so they would blend into the turf. It made it tougher to pick up first movement. I would also have them keep their hands low at the start. Harder to detect first movement from 40 yards away. That is why I never trust hand times.

 

[bubba2023]

That makes sense then. I just didn't realize that these camps were still all hand timed. I just assumed automation was fairly simple and standardized. No wonder the #s never reconcile.

 

[speedstrength]

I haven't been involved in any big time event since 2009. The last Nike combine I did was in 2007. Things may have changed.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I haven't been involved in any big time event since 2009. The last Nike combine I did was in 2007. Things may have changed.

Doubt it I think I read an article about Malik being hand timed while at some HS event.

 

[Belldozer1]

Speaking of Combines...He may have a dumb moment or 2 but he certainly isn't dumbhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...raft/ar-BBJRkSo?ocid=ob-tw-enus-1508523114409

 

[clob94]

Speaking of Combines...He may have a dumb moment or 2 but he certainly isn't dumbhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...raft/ar-BBJRkSo?ocid=ob-tw-enus-1508523114409

Wonderlich or gtfo. I ran out of time with two questions left.

 

[thedawg27]

Could just be what’s going thru a kids’ mind. Like in HS...it’s something like “I have to make it to college” and “I have to get offers”. In the NFL, most of those guys know they’re gonna make it so Itz just a matter of where. So I guess all I’m saying is it’s the mindset of the player at the time. But I’m prolly wrong...idk

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Speaking of Combines...He may have a dumb moment or 2 but he certainly isn't dumbhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...raft/ar-BBJRkSo?ocid=ob-tw-enus-1508523114409

Football IQ doesn't make you real life smart.

 

[Belldozer1]

Football IQ doesn't make you real life smart.

You are correct but anyone who has seen Mayfield in action the last couple of years can clearly see that he has the smarts real good. No further testing needed.

 

[bubba2023]

I chuckled.