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Off Topic: Missile Attacks in Ukraine

freeper

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2005
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Gents,

I have a friend who is a professor of military history and he is currently in Ukraine. He posted this to Facebook today, offering his experience of the missile attacks earlier. It reminds me of reading accounts of Englishmen reacting to The Blitz. I thought some of y'all might find the read interesting....

The Kyiv Missile Attacks October 10 Monday Morning
I did my Monday morning routine of getting milk, eggs, and coffee, thinking of making breakfast soon while with my headphones watching the news on my laptop. Then suddenly a loud explosion rocked nearby at around 9:30 a.m. as loud as I ever heard. I got up, put my sports coat on and walked into the hallway. I was just about to go out the main door to see what happened when people started running in to take refuge in the same hallway and the second, louder explosion hit.

The first guy to run in went to the hallway, and it’s a good choice, crouching down. I just looked at him thinking that is a good idea as there are more walls from the outside in the hallway. There is no basement, so that is the only option. The desk clerk came in next followed by some people from upstairs who I had just met the previous night.

The second story people who I had briefly met are young people who had to flee the Donbass, a young guy at 22, his girlfriend at about 18, and her younger brother 7. The girl was obviously shaken followed by her kid brother still in his pajamas. All of their English is limited, but I told her all is Ok, we are not dead. She responded with “F Putin” to which I laughed and repeated the same.
I figured coffee time was over and went back to my room to retrieve a shot glass of vodka offering it to the young lady to calm her down and distract her. She said no, but her boyfriend took it all in one shot. Her kid brother arrived calmer than most and confirmed to me in his little English it was two bombs.

I refilled my shot glass for myself and waited until it seemed to be over. It was over and went outside to see massive smoke rising just down the street. It was the Samsung Building right near Kyiv’s train station and bus stop. I waited for things to calm down to look around and ascertain the damage.

A couple hours later, I walked around the block and was surprised at the damage and shards of window glass just behind where I am. As I walked further the damage increased until I reached the corner of the Samsung Building. I found a stair stoop kitty corner to the damage and saw a van of bomb experts ride up and sifting through the shards finding bomb fragments. They had a lot of heavy construction equipment, but only one working the site I assume to still look for survivors in a purposeful way to not disturb the situation.

An ambulance left without sirens. That tells me it was most likely a corpse or corpses. A construction heavy lift arrived to check out the higher floors. I have no doubt there are many more bodies to be found. As they were working, more of the building’s facade collapsed. It seemed the bomb squad got what they needed, and I collected more of the missiles fragments.
As I wrote, this was 9:30 a.m. with the streets full of people. It is pure terrorism. Watching it on the news is one thing, but seeing it happen up close and personal is illuminating. God bless Ukraine.
 
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Unreal how this is occurring in modern times. But then to think everyone thought the same during every prior war. Yet we sit here in our own country and as long as it ain’t here it ain’t my problem. Sickening to see our administration and NATO take that position. Ukrainian’s are not that far from US level democracy. Aren’t we obligated as a nation to fight for freedom?
 
Unreal how this is occurring in modern times. But then to think everyone thought the same during every prior war. Yet we sit here in our own country and as long as it ain’t here it ain’t my problem. Sickening to see our administration and NATO take that position. Ukrainian’s are not that far from US level democracy. Aren’t we obligated as a nation to fight for freedom?
It seems the US is helping in a big way
 
Perhaps. Cash, weapons, nuke leverage, energy, but our narrative is lacking. Not all nations were born because they had more weapons. I love the power of weapons but where’s our heart, our resolve, our leadership?
 
Unreal how this is occurring in modern times. But then to think everyone thought the same during every prior war. Yet we sit here in our own country and as long as it ain’t here it ain’t my problem. Sickening to see our administration and NATO take that position. Ukrainian’s are not that far from US level democracy. Aren’t we obligated as a nation to fight for freedom?
Mmmmm, I agree on the sentiment but disagree on the previous state of Ukraine. Just like 99% of the world, the everyday people are good people that want a fair shake in life but their government was/is as corrupt and crooked as it gets.
I am in no way pro Russia or Putin but we (NATO) really backed them into a corner over the years. To put it in perspective, how would we feel feel if Canada & Mexico officially joined up militarily with China, Russia, Iran, N Korea, Venezuela and their top politicians were overthrown to allow Putin's hand picked gov to take over?
This war was totally expected and quite possibly wanted. I'm all for helping innocent people but their government can suck it.
 
Mmmmm, I agree on the sentiment but disagree on the previous state of Ukraine. Just like 99% of the world, the everyday people are good people that want a fair shake in life but their government was/is as corrupt and crooked as it gets.
I am in no way pro Russia or Putin but we (NATO) really backed them into a corner over the years. To put it in perspective, how would we feel feel if Canada & Mexico officially joined up militarily with China, Russia, Iran, N Korea, Venezuela and their top politicians were overthrown to allow Putin's hand picked gov to take over?
This war was totally expected and quite possibly wanted. I'm all for helping innocent people but their government can suck it.
I was explaining this very same point to my wife. Agreed Putin is cornered but you’re not sympathizing while sympathizing. Meanwhile Zelensky is on Dancing with the Stars and just wants his country to have fun and enjoy soccer on the weekends.
 
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Imo, there is corruption and unelected people not acting in in the regular folk’s best interest. This video is worth watching. Whether Rogan and Smith are over the target, who knows, but it makes sense to me.
 
Mmmmm, I agree on the sentiment but disagree on the previous state of Ukraine. Just like 99% of the world, the everyday people are good people that want a fair shake in life but their government was/is as corrupt and crooked as it gets.
I am in no way pro Russia or Putin but we (NATO) really backed them into a corner over the years. To put it in perspective, how would we feel feel if Canada & Mexico officially joined up militarily with China, Russia, Iran, N Korea, Venezuela and their top politicians were overthrown to allow Putin's hand picked gov to take over?
This war was totally expected and quite possibly wanted. I'm all for helping innocent people but their government can suck it.
You bought the Russian propaganda; hook, line, and sinker. The corruption was Putin’s puppets and not the present government.
 
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You bought the Russian propaganda; hook, line, and sinker. The corruption was Putin’s puppets and not the present government.
Bought Russian propaganda? Far from it my friend. As much as we'd like to assume that we played no part in this war cracking off, that just isn't the reality.
Are we the good guys? Yes
Is Putin wrong in invading? Yes
Wether intentional or not, did NATO back Putin into a corner? 100% undebatably yes.

Dude, nobody outside the Russian border believes the Russian peace keeping anti-nazi propaganda BS. That's entirely to maintain patriotic support. You lose the support of your people, you lose everything.

I'm not going to give a NATO vs Warsaw Pact history lesson but the recent history should tell you exactly why Putin decided to go all in on Ukraine.

Look at the buffer zone of countries between NATO & Russia pre-1990 and compare to NATO territory today. NATO expansion to the border of Russia is THE number 1 reason. Again, communist Putin is the bad guy here but we have to understand the whole picture.

Ukraine voted to join NATO but the pro-Russian government refused. Protests and uprising all over the country caused their president to flee. That's when pro-western leaders were propped up to replace them. Seeing a major loss in influence and potential for NATO bases near Moscow, Putin took over Crimea and threatened to continue unless Ukraine agreed to drop NATO aspirations and remain neutral.

Read up a bit about NATO Partnership for Peace & Mediterranean Dialogue Initiative.

Putin was initially losing his bid to be reelected until he shifted from an economic platform to a Russian world leader vision. He garnered his people's support and is trying to save face.

Much like N Koreans believe to their core that Americans are all bloodthirsty devils waiting to kill them, Russians in large believe the west and NATO has been building up to eliminate Russia. Generations of censorship & indoctrination is very effective and Putin has taken advantage of it.
 
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Previous post got too long to basically say the Ukrainian government is now and has always been puppets to someone else. Gifted money & power has always influenced them to one marinette or another.

Normal citizens of Ukraine are great people and deserved to be helped but Zalensky was just as much of a crooked pos as the last guy. He just happens to be on the victims side right now.
 
I was explaining this very same point to my wife. Agreed Putin is cornered but you’re not sympathizing while sympathizing. Meanwhile Zelensky is on Dancing with the Stars and just wants his country to have fun and enjoy soccer on the weekends.
Sadly it's like that all over the world. I've met some of the most amazing people in the middle of terrorists back yard. It's an existence of survival that most of us cannot comprehend in our modern times and yet it's all over the place.

I sympathize for humanity but also realize we can't save everyone from themselves.
 
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And not to pile on-- but I can tell you with absolute certainty-- Ukraine, right up until the war kicked off-- had been laundering money for a sh!t ton of people in the US and Europe.

A
Sh!t
Ton
 
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Previous post got too long to basically say the Ukrainian government is now and has always been puppets to someone else. Gifted money & power has always influenced them to one marinette or another.

Normal citizens of Ukraine are great people and deserved to be helped but Zalensky was just as much of a crooked pos as the last guy. He just happens to be on the victims side right now.
@GuaranteedFresh! I couldn't agree more. I sympathize with the Ukrainians, but NATO boxed Russia in. As a historian, it's almost as if no one in Brussels ever studied any Russian history and they didn't realize what repercussions constant expansion would bring about with respect to a Russian response. Poland I could understand, we kind of owed the Poles after the Western Allies shoddy treatment of them in the run-up to WWII. Look at a map of Europe over the last 500 years, Poland as I tell my students, has a nasty habit of appearing and then disappearing from the map. So I can understand their desire for help withstanding the Russian sphere of influence. The rest of Eastern Europe should have been left alone. Besides, the Poles at least pull their own weight and then some.

Which brings me to the point of this post. You know who pisses me off? The Germans. They talk big but deliver little, they're all hat and no cattle right now. They should be busting their asses to decouple themselves from Russian energy reliance and they should be beefing up their long neglected military. Now they have an opportunity to stick it to Ivan through Ukrainian proxies and they're instead freeloading off the rest of the West, just as they have done for the last generation. Check this graph out....and see if you don't feel the bile rise in your throat knowing that Germany, the alleged leader of Western Europe economically, is counting on Uncle Sugar to deliver yet again. While we have much more pressing issues west of Wake Island, the Germans are trying to have their bratwurst and eat it too....
bbc.JPG
 
Bought Russian propaganda? Far from it my friend. As much as we'd like to assume that we played no part in this war cracking off, that just isn't the reality.
Are we the good guys? Yes
Is Putin wrong in invading? Yes
Wether intentional or not, did NATO back Putin into a corner? 100% undebatably yes.

Dude, nobody outside the Russian border believes the Russian peace keeping anti-nazi propaganda BS. That's entirely to maintain patriotic support. You lose the support of your people, you lose everything.

I'm not going to give a NATO vs Warsaw Pact history lesson but the recent history should tell you exactly why Putin decided to go all in on Ukraine.

Look at the buffer zone of countries between NATO & Russia pre-1990 and compare to NATO territory today. NATO expansion to the border of Russia is THE number 1 reason. Again, communist Putin is the bad guy here but we have to understand the whole picture.

Ukraine voted to join NATO but the pro-Russian government refused. Protests and uprising all over the country caused their president to flee. That's when pro-western leaders were propped up to replace them. Seeing a major loss in influence and potential for NATO bases near Moscow, Putin took over Crimea and threatened to continue unless Ukraine agreed to drop NATO aspirations and remain neutral.

Read up a bit about NATO Partnership for Peace & Mediterranean Dialogue Initiative.

Putin was initially losing his bid to be reelected until he shifted from an economic platform to a Russian world leader vision. He garnered his people's support and is trying to save face.

Much like N Koreans believe to their core that Americans are all bloodthirsty devils waiting to kill them, Russians in large believe the west and NATO has been building up to eliminate Russia. Generations of censorship & indoctrination is very effective and Putin has taken advantage of it.
NATO forcing it is another russia propaganda line you’ve swallowed.
 
@GuaranteedFresh! I couldn't agree more. I sympathize with the Ukrainians, but NATO boxed Russia in. As a historian, it's almost as if no one in Brussels ever studied any Russian history and they didn't realize what repercussions constant expansion would bring about with respect to a Russian response. Poland I could understand, we kind of owed the Poles after the Western Allies shoddy treatment of them in the run-up to WWII. Look at a map of Europe over the last 500 years, Poland as I tell my students, has a nasty habit of appearing and then disappearing from the map. So I can understand their desire for help withstanding the Russian sphere of influence. The rest of Eastern Europe should have been left alone. Besides, the Poles at least pull their own weight and then some.

Which brings me to the point of this post. You know who pisses me off? The Germans. They talk big but deliver little, they're all hat and no cattle right now. They should be busting their asses to decouple themselves from Russian energy reliance and they should be beefing up their long neglected military. Now they have an opportunity to stick it to Ivan through Ukrainian proxies and they're instead freeloading off the rest of the West, just as they have done for the last generation. Check this graph out....and see if you don't feel the bile rise in your throat knowing that Germany, the alleged leader of Western Europe economically, is counting on Uncle Sugar to deliver yet again. While we have much more pressing issues west of Wake Island, the Germans are trying to have their bratwurst and eat it too....
bbc.JPG
You're absolutely spot on.

None of us know the inner workings of all the money we give out to damn near EVERY nation on this earth friend and foe.

I wish we would just shut off our outdated tax dollars charity for a year or 2 and then we would really see who is friends with who. I bet we'd all be shocked.
 
NATO forcing it is another russia propaganda line you’ve swallowed.
Man, love you like a brother but you have no clue what you're talking about. NATO served a very valuable service but became the US Banking and Security for everyone involved.

This is why Trump took issue with NATO and threatened to withdraw if other members didn't start holding up their end of the deal.

So please, tell us why Putin decided to militarily invade Ukraine without provocation. If my opinion on geopolitics & NATO expanding East to Russia's border is propaganda, let's hear your take.
 
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NATO forcing it is another russia propaganda line you’ve swallowed.

Let's take a look at a map of NATO expansion since USSR collapsed.

NATO further expanded after the Cold War, adding the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland (1999), Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia (2004), Albania and Croatia (2009), Montenegro (2017) and North Macedonia (2020). Of the territories and members added between 1990 and 2020, all were either formerly part of the Warsaw Pact (including the formerly Soviet Baltic states) or territories of the former Yugoslavia (which was not a Warsaw Pact member). No countries have left NATO since its founding.

As of June 2022, five additional states have formally informed NATO of their membership aspirations: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finland, Georgia, Sweden and Ukraine.
 
And not to pile on-- but I can tell you with absolute certainty-- Ukraine, right up until the war kicked off-- had been laundering money for a sh!t ton of people in the US and Europe.

A
Sh!t
Ton
Just another segment of capitalism. Our evolution into the USA as we know it today didnt come without a few capitalistic liberties.
 
Just another segment of capitalism. Our evolution into the USA as we know it today didnt come without a few capitalistic liberties.
Ehhhh laundering money isn't a "part" of capitalism. It's a byproduct of it. Angola is a socialist nation but their former President laundered billions through Ukraine. And it's not just nation states that have done this. John Kerry, Clinton, some of the Bush's, lots of the EU parliament, members of DeBeers (the diamond monopoly) and it appears the Biden family as well, launder money through that country. The drug cartels used to use Panama, but they started using Ukraine about 8 years ago. Arms dealers LOVE Ukraine. Bulgaria and Kazakhstan were too small to use for large sums.

Ukraine is a cesspool. And Putin knew this. And don't kid yourself, along with NATO encroachment, he saw an opportunity to cash on on some of that dirty money changing hands.
 
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