Mack Brown has skins on the wall. His 10 years of 10 wins or more was NOT luck. It was getting good players and coaching them. You act like Mack did more damage than good????
The "baked the cake" comments....
- Thread starter swVAHorn
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You are dang right!! Strong is not within 100 top coaches to Mack Brown as a head coach.
If the last several years has not taught Texas fans just how good Mack Brown was when he was at the top of his game then nothing ever will. He won a lot of games and did not make any glaring mistakes with his game management skills. I never saw him take a timeout when he should not have or not call one when he should have. His biggest weakness was he brought so much success that when he did not win every game he was considered crappy.
It was time for him to go but Mack Brown will always have my respect and admiration for bringing Texas back and putting them in the national conversation again.
I don't think Strong was set up to fail. In the sense I don't think the admin brought him here wanting or thinking he would fail. I think however that due to the talent level, on the team and environment in the AD it would of taken a truly special coach to win at least in the first two years.
Now this year is a different story the team should of been better. In some ways that's Strongs fault I mean if he had run the defense from game 1 he's probably still the coach and getting ready for a bowl game. Some of it though was playing for a coaches job every week isnt going to result in much success.
Now this year is a different story the team should of been better. In some ways that's Strongs fault I mean if he had run the defense from game 1 he's probably still the coach and getting ready for a bowl game. Some of it though was playing for a coaches job every week isnt going to result in much success.
Nothing needed to be said. It was the only time I can recall him saying something in poor taste. But, the media kept asking him the question about his future at Texas.
Strong is not a great coach, and was a terrible fit at Texas. But..... Anyone who thinks this team isn't more gifted than the one he inherited is nuts. Think of his year 1 QBs. Now, think about the OL he inherited. It was as bad as it gets, beyond horrible.
He may have been lucky in recruiting, Jefferson saved one class and Baylor provided the cherries on top the next. But the players came, even if it was luck. Herman would have struggled mightily the first 2 years with what Strong inherited. Strong's problem was losing to teams that had even less talent than his. Kansas has never had better players than Texas. Current talent is pretty good imo.
He may have been lucky in recruiting, Jefferson saved one class and Baylor provided the cherries on top the next. But the players came, even if it was luck. Herman would have struggled mightily the first 2 years with what Strong inherited. Strong's problem was losing to teams that had even less talent than his. Kansas has never had better players than Texas. Current talent is pretty good imo.
Without Vince Young, Mack was average. I spent way too many games at the Cotton Bowl watching the dirt thieves rape and pillage Mack... Why does Saban refer to Mack as Mr. Football?
Because w/ VY is the only time Mack beat equally talented teams other than 2008 OU?
I agree that a Strong is not a great coach and he was a terrible fit at Texas. I do not believe we have a lot more talent now than when Strong arrived either.
A head coach's job is to coach AND GET PLAYERS. You give him no credit for either. Yeah wins are just so easy to come by.......wow. Mack was just lucky. He beat Nebraska more than once with less talented players by the way. Some of you give that man NO credit.
I've been wanting to say this for a long time. Yes, Mack Brown did all the things you mentioned. But I've been in denial about this for a long time but the truth of the matter is that MB underachieved. As recently as SB 47 (I don't do roman numerals
), Texas was tied for second for most players in the NFL. In fact 2005-'13, there was at least one horn in the starting lineup of every SB champion except one. And don't forget the AA's, Heisman, and Lombardi, winners. That being said only two Big XII titles and 4 BCS/NYS level bowls in 16 years? Now compare that to his biggest rival Bob Stoops, and don't forget the 4 blowout losses to OK. He went on cruise control after his nc in 2006 and '07. In '07 the discipline had gotten way to lax, and a lot of players got into trouble. After a ridiculous loss to a&m, Bill Powers called Mack into his office and really gave him an upbraiding. So he got serious in the HB and we ended up blowing out AZS. He just did not have the competitive savvy that Stoops had, that's a sad fact. What upset me the most was that at the end he was letting powerful alums do his bidding. Rich powerful men who had never finished second in their lives were trying to keep a man who was never going to finish first again. Longhorn fans need to think of that when they look back at the MB era.
I do think Charlie Strong has instilled into the players what is expected of you when you wear the jersey at the University of Texas. Yes, go out and enjoy Austin, but remember that play time has to be secondary to school and fb. I remember the Darrell Royal very well and that's how it was done when he was the man. It wasn't like that under MB. And by all accounts Tom Herman is going to take that attitude and improve on it.
I really feel Tom Herman is destined for greatness he just has it and I feel the University of Texas Longhorns are going to start winning big again.
It's about time.
I've been wanting to say this for a long time. Yes, Mack Brown did all the things you mentioned. But I've been in denial about this for a long time but the truth of the matter is that MB underachieved. As recently as SB 47 (I don't do roman numerals
That being said only two Big XII titles and 4 BCS/NYS level bowls in 16 years? Now compare that to his biggest rival Bob Stoops, and don't forget the 4 blowout losses to OK. He went on cruise control after his nc in 2006 and '07. In '07 the discipline had gotten way to lax, and a lot of players got into trouble. After a ridiculous loss to a&m, Bill Powers called Mack into his office and really gave him an upbraiding. So he got serious in the HB and we ended up blowing out AZS. He just did not have the competitive savvy that Stoops had, that's a sad fact. What upset me the most was that at the end he was letting powerful alums do his bidding. Rich powerful men who had never finished second in their lives were trying to keep a man who was never going to finish first again. Longhorn fans need to think of that when they look back at the MB era.
I do think Charlie Strong has instilled into the players what is expected of you when you wear the jersey at the University of Texas. Yes, go out and enjoy Austin, but remember that play time has to be secondary to school and fb. I remember the Darrell Royal very well and that's how it was done when he was the man. It wasn't like that under MB. And by all accounts Tom Herman is going to take that attitude and improve on it.
I really feel Tom Herman is destined for greatness he just has it and I feel the University of Texas Longhorns are going to start winning big again.
It's about time.
Mack is lauded for his 10 year stretch of 10 plus wins, including a NC and an additional appearance. Two additional BCS appearances to boot. Don't forget how close we were to a few more conference championships
We will also continue to criticize him for how things ended, but I'll take a decade of dominance if it means a short period of down years. If you can't be happy with that, you need a more realistic expectation.
I was always pissed at Mack because he DIDNT dominate. He could have....he should have but he always felt it was a gentlemans game and the opponent shouldnt be humiliated. He was a good coach and I am grateful that he brought us back...but it was in his hands to be so much better....
The secondary and RB would be the only places you could argue that Mack left more talent than Strong is leaving for Herman. And none of us expected D'onta's year. He was the package deal to get his brother Armanti.
Okay, you could argue DL as Brown and Ridgeway were under Mack but there was little other than those two for DL. So, talent or actual depth for DL ranking?
Go back and look at the guys playing OL that first year. It was beyond ridiculous. Earl & Ricky could not have saved that sad bunch.
NU was somewhat a product of Big 8 schedule and was exposed once they had to meet B12 conference academics and had one more than one regular season challenge in OU and a bowl opponent.
Mack also benefited from mostly favorable schedules. 4 easy OOC games, other than the tOSU series, 3 crap G5s teams and one mediocre P5 team plus some D III teams here and there and OU and KSU was about it in conference. If Strong could trade Cal and one of his conference losses for any of; Arky St., Rice, and Sam Houston State this year he would likely be returning next year.
Some of you are romanticizing Mack due to the last 3-6 years and forgetting Mack is largely responsible for the talent(or lack there of) on hand. Just remember in 2004 Mack got shut out by OU with ~9 future NFLers starting on the 2004 Texas' offense including VY. Mack also lost to NCSU and a then terrible Stanford.
when one looks at the talent Mack Left, -vs- the talent Charlie left....we will have to wait a bit to find out about Charlies leavings, but the ones the Mack left didnt get drafted for the first time since 1938.....that isnt debate, that is fact. Mack WAS great at one time, but for whatever reason, he just up and quit.
Nebraska was killed by joining the BIG12. BIG8 allowed mentally challenged gang bangers. BIG12 didn't. That was Nebraska's competitive advantage, no wonder Tom O despised Texas.
And some of you are letting the end of his career affect your overall evaluation. I agree, the end was not pretty and it does deserve discussion when Mack's career is discussed.
But I have 10 reasons why Mack will go down as 1 of the top 2 Texas coaches of all time; 12 ,5, 6, 12, 5, 1, 13, 10, 4, 2. Those are the final rankings for Texas from 2000-2009. That is Mack's legacy, even if you think it was easy and can't let go of the bad moments.
Strongs 1st game at UT, we completely bombed the coin flip. I had some serious internal conflicts at that moment. It was a sign of things to come. Basics and detail is where he went wrong.
I really liked Strong and wanted things to work with him. Unfortunately, there were just too many moments similar to what you mentioned to continue to overlook.
Few things......In the HISTORY of Texas football Mack Brown was the 2nd best coach and it was not close. If coaching at Texas is so damn easy why aren't other coaches ahead of piss poor ole crappy MACK BROWN??..... The only issue with Mack Brown was conf champs and I do think he could have done better in that area. BUT and this goes hand in hand with that shutout you brought up above....ou was ranked AHEAD OF Texas that year.....ou HAD SOME NFL PLAYERS TOO as a matter of fact they had 14 future NFLers on that team!!! You act like ou was a bunch of kansas players! Not no but hell no!..... ou beat Texas with better and sometimes equal talent....Mack Browns last year was one where he beat ou with LESS talent. His achilles was ou for sure which made it worse for all of us....but if and I will say this AGAIN the history of Texas football does not show some of you that wins and championships are hard to come by then nothing ever will.
You give no credit where it is due. You act like the ONLY reason Texas lost for 15 straight years was because of Mack Brown. When Texas won it was only because the other team sucked..... Just wow.......
Mack Brown was an injury away from immortality at Texas with 2 National Championships. He was a few plays and a bunch of idiots picking ou over Texas one year of playing for another.....not to mention other years where Texas beat good teams in BCS games and his bowl record was BETTER than DKR. Better winning % than DKR.
Mack Brown did not suck. What bugs me about you longyac is you were and are an apologist for Strong but you hold Mack to the fire........Strong does not even belong in the same breath as Mack Brown. I am done. You believe whatever your little heart desires. Facts be damned.
It seems people in general cannot be objective anymore. Facts are just what is chosen.
Please name 1 Coach that has coached for 15 years at one school (heck multiple schools) and not lost a game they should not have lost? Just 1 will do.
There was a larger talent deficit after Strong dismissed a lot of players and Ash got hurt.
But the final four years HAVE to be weighed in on Mack Brown's entire tenure which was 16 years.
Look, everyone on here understandably hates Art Briles. Ok
But Art Briles TIED Mack Brown for most conference titles. Think about that for a minute. Baylor !!!!! Going into the 2013 season they had won two conference titles in their previous 88 seasons.
And yes at Texas the biggest measuring stick is how did you do against OK? Especially since right now they're winning. That's just the way it is at Texas fair or unfair. Listen, Royal, Akers, even McWilliams and Macovic had winning records against OK.It's also like that at MI or tOSU how did you do against the other guy?
One last time people Mack Brown was an outstanding coach I respect him as much as anyone. But like I said it could have been better. It should have been better. Bob Stoops is undeniably an outstanding coach but he is nowhere near as good as some of OK's previous coaches I'm speaking of Bud Wilkinson and Switzer. For goodness sake people look at Stoops bowl record. He lost to a former junior college. On a statue of liberty play.
As far as I'm concerned I'm telling lt like it is.
swVA....I agree....Mack was a freak injury away from a second Championship, and a dropped certain interception away from playing for another. I always thought that 2008 team was better than the 2009 team.Florida beat OU for the championship that year. Would we have beaten Florida?....no way of knowing but I would like our chances.
without some bad luck, and some POS coaches unethical vote...(and Mack Browns vote for that matter) Mack might have 3 championships, and that would put him in very select company. Who knows?...maybe having his heart ripped out 2 years in a row is what did him in
I was pissed at him for not being meaner,nastier, and tougher on opponents, but I suppose you are right in that I shouldnt hold that against him
without some bad luck, and some POS coaches unethical vote...(and Mack Browns vote for that matter) Mack might have 3 championships, and that would put him in very select company. Who knows?...maybe having his heart ripped out 2 years in a row is what did him in
I was pissed at him for not being meaner,nastier, and tougher on opponents, but I suppose you are right in that I shouldnt hold that against him
You are always with this talent deficit after strong dismissed a lot of players. Total BS. He kicked off Estelle and Harrison becuase they couldn't put down the bong. Harrison was a JUCO transfer that was constantly in the doghouse with Mack.
Then there was Kendall Sanders WR and Joe Bergeron RB and backups JR Leroy Scott (CB), JR Chet Moss (FB) , FR Montrel Meander (WR), SO Jalen Overstreet (RB), FR Chevoski Collins (DB) and FR Deoundri Davis (LB) .
Tell me who out of those 9 players was worth a damn. What strong did was get rid of 9 cancers who refusued to buy into the program. It wasn't that hard. Put the bong down and go to class and there were 9 guys that couldn't do that simple thing. The only one that really hurt was Estelle. He was an NFL quality talent at OT and if Strong could have turned him around then he would have helped. But Estelle wanted to be a gangster rapper and he couldn't even produce at West Alabama.
The problem was Mack's total mismanagement of his roster during his last few years as head coach.
I do have to say this however, and you can take it how you will. What happened in 2009 would not have happened to DKR...It just wouldnt have, Not in the same way anyhow.Injuries are part of the game. But Mack was undone by his own gentlemanly attitude. DKR may have lost his QB at a terrible time( he did in fact sometimes) BUT...his backup QB would have gotten MANY,MANY minutes during the season. He would not have been thrown into the fire like Gilbert was on the biggest stage there is. DKR would have been curb stomping weaker opponents during the season and would have run in the second string....then the 3rd string....from the first game. After the 1969 championship the staff discovered that not a single starter played enough minutes to letter under the system they were using at the time. Let that sink in for a moment.
Would we have beaten Bama had Mack had that philosophy? Maybe not.....but we would have had a damned better chance, and remember that game was undecided until the last 3:30 in the game. That is what I have held against Mack all this time. Unfair?...most likely, but that is what has had me pissed all this time.
Would we have beaten Bama had Mack had that philosophy? Maybe not.....but we would have had a damned better chance, and remember that game was undecided until the last 3:30 in the game. That is what I have held against Mack all this time. Unfair?...most likely, but that is what has had me pissed all this time.
Maybe. But did any of the guys he ran off make the NFL or do well at another school? Most were guys that the program would rather have their scholarship back than have them. Mack was a very good coach, far better than Strong. He just got old, it happens to everyone (except freaking Saban).
I did not track their careers after they left.
Did those 9 players significantly contribute to Mack's 8 win season in 2013 only to depart under Strong before the 2014 season? The answer is yes.
I agree with you 100% oldhorn. Mack should have had a QB ready to go. No excuse for that at all. I was and am pissed at Mack for the same things you are...
It was time for Mack Brown to go after the last Colt game. If there had been a change then to the RIGHT coach Texas would not be in this mess. I do hope Herman is the real deal because if he is this could be a fun ride ahead of us and would not have happened like this unless the mistakes that were made were made.
I am trying to look on the bright side.
and give Mack the credit he does deserve...beating ou then was hard for anyone not just Mack.... Not winning more conf champs was the worst thing about Mack in my opinion and then slacking in his recruiting the last 4 or 5 years was next......especially OL and QB. I wanted Mack gone before he went...I just also remember the joy he brought us all nearly every week for several years.
Mack could have and probably should have won more conference titles. Mack should have done a better job recruiting QBs when Colt was starting. Mack shouldn't have shit the bed in 2010.
But, Mack resurrected UT football to national prominence with 10 win seasons, BCS wins, a MNC victory and another appearance, and won the Big 12. Mack was the best coach at Texas since DKR.
But, Mack resurrected UT football to national prominence with 10 win seasons, BCS wins, a MNC victory and another appearance, and won the Big 12. Mack was the best coach at Texas since DKR.
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