Bomb is alive and well

[oldhorn2]

I dont like presenting another guys work, but this is too good to just leave alone.Bomb did some work to show just what a crappy situation Strong and Wickline inherited. It kind of deflates the idea of how much talent Strong had left from Mack:


Posted 4 days ago

1) Espinosa-injured after 1 game under Strong, then retired.
2) Hughes-nicknamed "No Contact At All". Transferred and isn't even playing football anymore.
3) Harrison-kicked off the team. Isn't playing football anymore.
4) Hammad-transferred. Kicked out at Baylor because he was stalking women.
5) Cochran-retired at the end of '13.
6) Estelle-Dismissed from Texas. Started 1 game at South Alabama.
7) Riser-Transfer. Started 6 games at Sam Houston State last year.
8) James-currently at Auburn. Described as "underwhelming" in the Spring. http://www.montgomer....camp/87937300/
9) Raulerson-transferred. Currently at Arkansas.
10) Flowers-undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
11) Hutchins-Undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
12) Doyle-Undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
13) Perkins. An above average tackle, very good guard. Probably the only decent player Mack left Strong on the offensive line.

I might be forgetting someone, so essentially Mack left 13 OL. Only 1 could really even be considered above average (Perkins). Mack didn't leave a single OL that's made an All Big 12 team. Not even 2nd team.

The more I look at this, the more I feel sympathy for Wickline. This is not only bad this is an absolute joke.



I finally have some hope with 2 FR All Americans (Vahe and Williams) from Strong's first recruiting class.

 

[Belldozer1]

Oldhorn, your posts are usually well thought out and fact filled. This, however, is not one of those posts. Bomb is a kool aid guzzling excuse maker and I will debunk this myth of no talent left by Mack of his, as I have done in the past. You posting his work is perpetuating his propaganda machine of myth and lies.

 

[TexExSpur]

Oldhorn, your posts are usually well thought out and fact filled. This, however, is not one of those posts. Bomb is a kool aid guzzling excuse maker and I will debunk this myth of no talent left by Mack of his, as I have done in the past. You posting his work is perpetuating his propaganda machine of myth and lies.

Do it! That facts are present. The OL was a shit-show of nobodies and you're an idiot if you think we had talent at the OL position. Don't be a blowhard, tell us with facts how we had talented OL on the roster.

 

[OULegacy76]

The guys recruited that didn't work out, were they big time recruits? Like offer wise and star wise?

 

[Belldozer1]

The guys recruited that didn't work out, were they big time recruits? Like offer wise and star wise?

Absolutely and I'm fixing to lay them out one by one like I have done in the past. Bomb like to rewrite history and his garbage all looks legit until debunked by FACTS.

 

[diadevic]

Absolutely and I'm fixing to lay them out one by one like I have done in the past. Bomb like to rewrite history and his garbage all looks legit until debunked by FACTS.

Bomb has been gone for 2 years and he is still so far in your head.

 

[TexExSpur]

So their proposed value as HS prospects, trumps what they actually did on the field?


The OL talent that remained after Mack was a bust that included some injuries and guys that didn't buy into the program changes... Cancers had to be removed, but none of them have gone on to do anything! If they were supreme talents, they would have ended up at big time programs. The 2 most untalented groups Mack Brown left behind were OL and QB, it's not rocket science...

 

[Longyac]

Mack left an cupboard no matter much Bell disagrees. Hell, even Mack's former GA and #1 media supporter Bobby Burton has finally admitted it.

2008 was the last time a Texas OL was drafted.

 

[OULegacy76]

First of all if they were big time recruits I'm assuming other elite programs recruited them as well? Also diadevic it's a topic about bomb brought up by another poster. Can you please refrain from making such silly comments? Good grief.

 

[TexExSpur]

First of all if they were big time recruits I'm assuming other elite programs recruited them as well? Also diadevic it's a topic about bomb brought up by another poster. Can you please refrain from making such silly comments? Good grief.

What they did or didn't achieve on the field plus where they landed as a result of their value based on actual play says all you need to know and trumps their offer lists and associated rankings based on HS evaluations.

 

[diadevic]

First of all if they were big time recruits I'm assuming other elite programs recruited them as well? Also diadevic it's a topic about bomb brought up by another poster. Can you please refrain from making such silly comments? Good grief.

Looks like Bomb is in your head too.

 

[bubba2023]

No doubt we have been a shitty team, and that is what our record has reflected. Under both Mack and Strong.

 

[OULegacy76]

So it had nothing to do with coaching? Or what?

 

[Godz40Acrez]

Can you please refrain from making such silly comments? Good grief.

Can YOU please refrain from telling our guys what to do or not do on our own site?

 

[OULegacy76]

Dia when you turn 18 come back and contribute to the topic.

 

[TexExSpur]

So it had nothing to do with coaching? Or what?

The current staff including Wick produced two Freshmen All-Americans at LT and LG in 2015.

The kids were under-developed upon Chucks arrival and they way under performed with Dom going out in the first game as well as losing both tackles, it all went down hill from there and the "talent" that was left over from Mack.... Completely lacked depth and over all potential.

The only OL to transfer with high stock was Darius James and he ended up at Auburn after getting hurt and being to much of a puss to fight for his position. Currently third in line at LT for Auburn as a 2013 recruit RS/Jr.

Heck, we still have Cuney and he can't beat out a true freshman at center.

 

[diadevic]

Dia when you turn 18 come back and contribute to the topic.

Bite me. OP listed every single lineman left over from the Brown regime, and ever single one of them was mediocre to bust except 1. And you want to waste everyone's time trying to claim that this was all due to Strong. Why don't YOU come back when you have something to contribute. And, BTW - it is in-f*cking-credible that Bomb has been gone for 2 years and you are worried about what he has to say. He IS in your head.

 

[Belldozer1]

I dont like presenting another guys work, but this is too good to just leave alone.Bomb did some work to show just what a crappy situation Strong and Wickline inherited. It kind of deflates the idea of how much talent Strong had left from Mack:
Oldhorn, with all due respect, this tired argument just does not hold water as a whole. Every team has some players here and there that don't work out for whatever reason but your post which seems to echo that imbecile Bomb's post is that the talent just wasn't there for Charley to work with. I am going to go down the list that you presented and prove that, that is simply not true. These players were all highly qualified with the exception of one. If these players decide to flame out, smoke dope etc. after Mack is gone, that's not on Mack. If these players fail to reach their full potential after Mack is gone, that's not on Mack, that's on your current coaching staff and an offense that has been mismanaged from day 1, evidenced by your 3rd OC in as many years. Make no mistake, the talent was available, getting it out of them is a coaching issue. Let's debunk some myths, shall we?


Posted 4 days ago

1) Espinosa-injured after 1 game under Strong, then retired.
4 star recruit, ranked No. 1 Center as Senior. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

2) Hughes-nicknamed "No Contact At All". Transferred and isn't even playing football anymore.
4 star recruit, ranked 35th best OT in nation, Member of Austin Fab 55, 2012 Semper Fi All American Bowl. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

3) Harrison-kicked off the team. Isn't playing football anymore.
3 star recruit, ranked No. 4 Juco OL, No. 1 by 247sports, No. 9 OT by ESPN. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

4) Hammad-transferred. Kicked out at Baylor because he was stalking women.
4 star recruit, No. 10 Ranked OG, Ranked No 171 overall, Off. Line MVP of 2013 Semper Fi All American Bowl.
Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

5) Cochran-retired at the end of '13.
RETIRED DUE TO INJURY BUT AS WITH MOST MACK'S RECRUITS, CAME HIGHLY QUALIFIED. 4 star recruit. Prep All American, 9th Best OL by Dave Campbell's, Member of Austin Fab 55

6) Estelle-Dismissed from Texas. Started 1 game at South Alabama.
4 star recruit, ranked 7th best OT, ESPN Top 150, Austin Fab 55, 2012 Under Armour All American Game, Prep All American.
Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

7) Riser-Transfer. Started 6 games at Sam Houston State last year.
4 star recruit, Rivals All American, No. 6 OG, ESPN Top 150, 2012 Under Armour All American Game. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

8) James-currently at Auburn. Described as "underwhelming" in the Spring. http://www.montgomer....camp/87937300/
5 star recruit, No. 1 OG and No. 1 Center MAxPreps. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

9) Raulerson-transferred. Currently at Arkansas.
4 star recruit, No. 5 OT, 2013 US Army All American Bowl. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

10) Flowers-undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
4 star recruit, 6th best OL, ESPN Top 150, 2011 US Army All American Bowl. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

11) Hutchins-Undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
4 star recruit, No. 2 best OL, 2 time All State, Played in Texas HS Coaches Classic. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

12) Doyle-Undrafted. Wasn't even signed as a UFA that I know of.
3 star recruit. This is the only recruit on this list that really didn't have any accolades to note. Talent questionable, but every team needs scout players.

13) Perkins. An above average tackle, very good guard. Probably the only decent player Mack left Strong on the offensive line.
4 star recruit, No. 6 OT, Parade All American, 2013 Army All American Bowl. Talent was there, this is not on Mack.

I might be forgetting someone, so essentially Mack left 13 OL. Only 1 could really even be considered above average (Perkins). Mack didn't leave a single OL that's made an All Big 12 team. Not even 2nd team. Really? Well that's too bad because the talent was there, just not coached up obviously.

The more I look at this, the more I feel sympathy for Wickline. This is not only bad this is an absolute joke.
Haha, no Bomb, your analysis and excuses are the joke.



I finally have some hope with 2 FR All Americans (Vahe and Williams) from Strong's first recruiting class.

Keep in mind all of the rankings I list are where that players was ranked as a senior and the rankings are based on nationwide rankings, not State. So obviously being ranked the No. 1 OL in the Nation is pretty dang good. Also, I did not get into even listing who all these players had athletes had offers coming from out of hs. These players all had offers from the big boys of CFB with the exception of Doyle Probably. I only listed basic accomplishments for each player provided in their bio, a quick review of each players bio will reveal much more info and accomplishments for each.

As you can see, these were very talented players as a whole, not all work out for various reasons but Mack recruited a ton of talent to Texas and this is just another example of that that is hard to argue with when presented with the facts.

 

[bubba2023]

This is a dead horse imo. We had poor talent and poor coaching and guess what our record sucked. Strong did fire the below guys for a reason and it wasn't just because they inherited a bare cupboard.

Wickline
Watson
Norvell
Koenning
Chambers

 

[Belldozer1]

Bite me. OP listed every single lineman left over from the Brown regime, and ever single one of them was mediocre to bust except 1. And you want to waste everyone's time trying to claim that this was all due to Strong. Why don't YOU come back when you have something to contribute. And, BTW - it is in-f*cking-credible that Bomb has been gone for 2 years and you are worried about what he has to say. He IS in your head.

I'm starting to think Duh Bomb may be in our presence, in this very thread even.

 

[diadevic]

I'm starting to think Duh Bomb may be in our presence, in this very thread even.

Ha! Da Bomb is still so far in my head, and I was on his side. I go to bed at 10:00 p.m. every night, and every morning he never ceased to amaze me with the number of posts and arguments he could get into after midnight. I didn't know whether to hold him in awe or pity.

 

[OULegacy76]

Is this bomb guy a contributor on this board? Looks like a couple of these guys are VERY protective over him. Anyways back to the adults in this topic. Perhaps it was just a stroke of bad luck on Mack's part? As stated these recruits were all big time guys recruited by other elite schools. 17-19 year old kids? It's just a gamble at times. A head coach is only as good as his assistants

 

[diadevic]

Is this bomb guy a contributor on this board? Looks like a couple of these guys are VERY protective over him. Anyways back to the adults in this topic. Perhaps it was just a stroke of bad luck on Mack's part? As stated these recruits were all big time guys recruited by other elite schools. 17-19 year old kids? It's just a gamble at times. A head coach is only as good as his assistants

Hey adult - I seem to remember that many Aggies, and more than a couple of Sooners, used to complain that Mack's recruits got a bump up in the recruiting rankings once Mack offered. Is it possible that Mack got complacent in his recruiting work, but it took the rankings a couple of years to catch on?

 

[Belldozer1]

Do it! That facts are present. The OL was a shit-show of nobodies and you're an idiot if you think we had talent at the OL position. Don't be a blowhard, tell us with facts how we had talented OL on the roster.

I did and I'm awaiting your retort.....with facts. Not how these kids failed under Strong. I clearly showed the talent was there. Your turn....

 

[Longyac]

So it had nothing to do with coaching? Or what?

While coaching and coaches' evaluations are big parts of the issues the NFL drafts a heck of a lot of guys due to potential/measureables as they think they can coach those with guys up.

 

[TexExSpur]

http://247sports.com/Player/Sedrick-Flowers-597?Institution=21019 played guard for Strong in 2014 and 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Marcus-Hutchins-420?Institution=20901 started all 13 games at tackle in 2014, played in 10 games with 2 starts in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Taylor-Doyle-2082?Institution=21248 played in all 13 games with 11 starts in 2014 8 at center, started all 12 games at center in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Dominic-Espinosa-1503?Institution=21264 started at center in the 2014 season and done. Graduated

http://247sports.com/Player/Kennedy-Estelle-7626?Institution=23772 played in 1 game in 2014, suspended and transfered to West Alabama, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Curtis-Riser-434?Institution=20901 did not play in 2014 transferred to Sam Houston, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Camrhon-Hughes-7093?Institution=21219 started 6 games in 2014, played in 7. Gone, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Darius-James-7329?Institution=21219 played in 6 games and started 2 at RT in 2014, hurt, transfered to Auburn THE only prospect with a chance to do anything. Issues with staff change

http://247sports.com/Player/Kent-Perkins-229?Institution=21538 Current Starting RG/RT

http://247sports.com/Player/Jake-Raulerson-12770?Institution=20755 played in 12 games with 5 starts in 2014. Couldn't get on the field in 2015, transfered to Arkansas after graduating.

http://247sports.com/Player/Rami-Hammad-17934?Institution=21174 Couldn't handle Wickline, kicked off at BU after transfering and never doing anything.

http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Harrison-21439?Institution=23686 Charlie gave him evey chance under the sun, kid couldn't get his shit together.

http://247sports.com/Player/Terrell-Cuney-26718?Institution=21183 Mack Brown recruit, Can't brake into the starting roll over a true freshman

 

[NDAFArly]

Just as a beforehand question, can we establish the basis of the word "fact" by any chance?

I only ask because a certain person states his opinion or even puts down things from others as "facts."

In this case, I'm not sure how one can make an argument of talent by using "facts?"

The phrased used should be "in my opinion" or "according to (state the source)" instead of "facts."

Saying a Texas O Lineman got drafted in the NFL is a fact.
Saying a Texas Olineman is talented/not talented is an opinion. Educated opinion or not, it's an opinion not fact.

Now you can bolster your argument by saying they are the opinion of 6-time GM of the year, Bill Polian. His opinion on talent evaluation carries weight.

Let's practice.

Fact: Texas had (fill in the blank) number of players drafted under Mack Brown his final two seasons.

Highly Educated Opinion: According to Brian Kelly, Texas is very talented on both sides of the ball & ND expects a very tough game opening weekend.

 

[Longyac]

Hey adult - I seem to remember that many Aggies, and more than a couple of Sooners, used to complain that Mack's recruits got a bump up in the recruiting rankings once Mack offered. Is it possible that Mack got complacent in his recruiting work, but it took the rankings a couple of years to catch on?

You're not the first to notice that other teams fans have gone from complaining about the Mack/ Texas bump in recruiting rankings to using it to say there was talent.

If there was talent it would have shown in the draft and in where guys transferred to and how they are playing there with different coaching.

 

[NDAFArly]

http://247sports.com/Player/Sedrick-Flowers-597?Institution=21019 played guard for Strong in 2014 and 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Marcus-Hutchins-420?Institution=20901 started all 13 games at tackle in 2014, played in 10 games with 2 starts in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Taylor-Doyle-2082?Institution=21248 played in all 13 games with 11 starts in 2014 8 at center, started all 12 games at center in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Dominic-Espinosa-1503?Institution=21264 started at center in the 2014 season and done. Graduated

http://247sports.com/Player/Kennedy-Estelle-7626?Institution=23772 played in 1 game in 2014, suspended and transfered to West Alabama, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Curtis-Riser-434?Institution=20901 did not play in 2014 transferred to Sam Houston, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Camrhon-Hughes-7093?Institution=21219 started 6 games in 2014, played in 7. Gone, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Darius-James-7329?Institution=21219 played in 6 games and started 2 at RT in 2014, hurt, transfered to Auburn THE only prospect with a chance to do anything. Issues with staff change

http://247sports.com/Player/Kent-Perkins-229?Institution=21538 Current Starting RG/RT

http://247sports.com/Player/Jake-Raulerson-12770?Institution=20755 played in 12 games with 5 starts in 2014. Couldn't get on the field in 2015, transfered to Arkansas after graduating.

http://247sports.com/Player/Rami-Hammad-17934?Institution=21174 Couldn't handle Wickline, kicked off at BU after transfering and never doing anything.

http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Harrison-21439?Institution=23686 Charlie gave him evey chance under the sun, kid couldn't get his shit together.

http://247sports.com/Player/Terrell-Cuney-26718?Institution=21183 Mack Brown recruit, Can't brake into the starting roll over a true freshman

Perfect.
A very well organized argument with solid sources. Also added factual statements, such as how much a player played and if he transferred.

That allows me, as a viewer, to make an educated decision on the argument. Which is much better than, "he is really good/bad, that's a fact."

 

[TexExSpur]

Just as a beforehand question, can we establish the basis of the word "fact" by any chance?

I only ask because a certain person states his opinion or even puts down things from others as "facts."

In this case, I'm not sure how one can make an argument of talent by using "facts?"

The phrased used should be "in my opinion" or "according to (state the source)" instead of "facts."

Saying a Texas O Lineman got drafted in the NFL is a fact.
Saying a Texas Olineman is talented/not talented is an opinion. Educated opinion or not, it's an opinion not fact.

Now you can bolster your argument by saying they are the opinion of 6-time GM of the year, Bill Polian. His opinion on talent evaluation carries weight.

Let's practice.

Fact: Texas had (fill in the blank) number of players drafted under Mack Brown his final two seasons.

Highly Educated Opinion: According to Brian Kelly, Texas is very talented on both sides of the ball & ND expects a very tough game opening weekend.

FACT countless articles can be found via google from NFL scouts stating Texas was depleted on talent when Charlie took over. lol

 

[HornosaurusRex]

Just as a beforehand question, can we establish the basis of the word "fact" by any chance?

In my experience, fact generally refers to a strongly held opinion, and that's a fact, jack.

Hook 'em

 

[Belldozer1]

http://247sports.com/Player/Sedrick-Flowers-597?Institution=21019 played guard for Strong in 2014 and 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Marcus-Hutchins-420?Institution=20901 started all 13 games at tackle in 2014, played in 10 games with 2 starts in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Taylor-Doyle-2082?Institution=21248 played in all 13 games with 11 starts in 2014 8 at center, started all 12 games at center in 2015, Graduated average player

http://247sports.com/Player/Dominic-Espinosa-1503?Institution=21264 started at center in the 2014 season and done. Graduated

http://247sports.com/Player/Kennedy-Estelle-7626?Institution=23772 played in 1 game in 2014, suspended and transfered to West Alabama, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Curtis-Riser-434?Institution=20901 did not play in 2014 transferred to Sam Houston, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Camrhon-Hughes-7093?Institution=21219 started 6 games in 2014, played in 7. Gone, BUST

http://247sports.com/Player/Darius-James-7329?Institution=21219 played in 6 games and started 2 at RT in 2014, hurt, transfered to Auburn THE only prospect with a chance to do anything. Issues with staff change

http://247sports.com/Player/Kent-Perkins-229?Institution=21538 Current Starting RG/RT

http://247sports.com/Player/Jake-Raulerson-12770?Institution=20755 played in 12 games with 5 starts in 2014. Couldn't get on the field in 2015, transfered to Arkansas after graduating.

http://247sports.com/Player/Rami-Hammad-17934?Institution=21174 Couldn't handle Wickline, kicked off at BU after transfering and never doing anything.

http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Harrison-21439?Institution=23686 Charlie gave him evey chance under the sun, kid couldn't get his shit together.

http://247sports.com/Player/Terrell-Cuney-26718?Institution=21183 Mack Brown recruit, Can't brake into the starting roll over a true freshman

How is any of this on Mack? Explain yourself and your excuses about how this is on Mack. I clearly laid out how talented these players were coming out of highschool with accolades and recruiting rankings. And now I'm seeing a few of the kool aid drinkers trying to ease into the whole "well these recruiting rankings gave kids being recruited by Mack an extra bump" bs, to which I am saying look at all of these other offers these same kids had by all of the bid boys of the CFB world. Stop with the excuses and call it for what it is, your record the last 2 years surely reflects it.

 

[TexExSpur]

I did and I'm awaiting your retort.....with facts. Not how these kids failed under Strong. I clearly showed the talent was there. Your turn....

They were underdeveloped by the previous staff who didn't go out of their way to evaluate talent near the end and that Bell, is well documented.

 

[NDAFArly]

FACT countless articles can be found via google from NFL scouts stating Texas was depleted on talent when Charlie took over. lol

Very strong.
A number of articles is a fact.
NFL scouts are highly respected opinions.

 

[Belldozer1]

FACT countless articles can be found via google from NFL scouts stating Texas was depleted on talent when Charlie took over. lol

Sorry, you can't rewrite history. Nice try though and very weak on your part.

 

[TexExSpur]

How is any of this on Mack? Explain yourself and your excuses about how this is on Mack. I clearly laid out how talented these players were coming out of highschool with accolades and recruiting rankings. And now I'm seeing a few of the kool aid drinkers trying to ease into the whole "well these recruiting rankings gave kids being recruited by Mack an extra bump" bs, to which I am saying look at all of these other offers these same kids had by all of the bid boys of the CFB world. Stop with the excuses and call it for what it is, your record the last 2 years surely reflects it.

If they were so talented, why did 2 freshmen bump them out of their starting roles? No, Bell...Texas was not deep nor talented on the OL and EXTERMINATING the program of some cancers EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM None of these guys are in the NFL. Perkins has a real chance after playing three years for the current staff.