Boren at it again

[BringBackRoyal]

I hate the Big 12. It needs to go away. The Texas schools should go to the Pac12, OU and OSU should go to the SEC or Big 10 and ISU, KSU, KU and WVU.....who cares?

Unlikely that the SEC is going to take on two more teams just to capture the relatively small number of TV sets that OU and OSU bring. And while the Big 10 members might hold their noses and take OU by itself (far from a given, with OU not having AAU membership), there's absolutely no way the members will brook adding a university of OSU's caliber.

 

[misterTeasyEmalcomXf'inAkicksome]

Because there are bigger forces in the world than Scholz and Micco. Just because either one of us says something's not possible doesn't necessarily make it so. There are some who believe the GOR isn't as iron clad as you might believe. We'll never know unless it gets tested in court, but I think Boren might be staging that battle.

The odds of the GOR coming apart without at least several of the schools in the conference (i.e., more than just Oklahoma... more than just Oklahoma and Texas... more than just Oklahoma, Texas, and OSU... probably some sort of contract-y type number like 2/3 or 3/4 of the schools) wishing it to be so isn't great. If Boren really wanted to leave, he'd either probably want to make it seem like it would be more trouble than it's worth to keep them from leaving somehow (which is difficult when the actual money cost is such a big factor) of sew dissent into as many other schools as possible (which I guess making a fuss over expansion might do, but I'm not sure that would make teams want to leave or blow it all up since so many of the schools don't have the cozy landing spots they do).

But even so, I think your original question is flawed in that, I'd imagine that most of the interested conferences would strongly prefer getting Texas and Oklahoma together (and possibly taking another team or two if that's what has to happen to make it so) rather than take just Oklahoma or OU and OSU as a set.

OU's best chance of getting past the AAU bar for the Big 10 would be some deal that also brought in Texas. And the Big 10 has said they don't really care about an upper cap on how many members they'd add, so, while I feel like 12 teams is ideal and 16 teams is a reasonable cap, their commissioner definitely made it sound like they'd consider 18 or 20 if they liked the situation. Adding Texas and taking OU along for the ride would probably be an ideal scenario for them. I feel like adding oSu would be a stretch though. I'm not saying impossible... but the Big 10 would probably like the sound of Kansas, OU, Texas and either Notre Dame (ideally) or Rice (a second team in Texas, plus academics) before they'd give much consideration to oSu.

And with the SEC, it'd be interesting to see how that played out. We have our Aggie friends who pop up over here to tell us that the SEC no longer has any interest in taking other teams from Texas. If that's true (and I think that claim is dubious at best... if Texas showed interest, I think the SEC would have to give it a lot of thought), I'm not sure how two Oklahoma schools would fare. Even so, they're far more likely to prefer adding two teams from two different states or, if they were adding two from the same state, have it be fore a specific purpose. For example, I think it'd be hard to disagree that the SEC's football product gets a ton of hype already and that, if they really wanted to get more money, they might consider adding teams that improve their basketball profile (since, when you already are making as much money as you can make with football, basketball is going to be the next biggest sport, and the number of games helps drive the value of a conference network and such). So, if they can't pry UNC and Duke out of the ACC, again, OU and Kansas... or OU and Texas seem like they'd be more attractive than OU and OSU.

And even with the Pac 12 option... same thing applies. The Pac would love to add Texas and OU, and if last time around were any indication, they'd actually be just fine with us bringing along OSU and someone else (Tech or whoever).

If either Texas or OU were to leave the Big 12 (either through legal maneuvers now, or more likely around the time the TV contracts come up for renewal), odds are that the other one wouldn't stick around. And from what I can tell, the same conferences would be interested in both schools... and would be interested in them more than the other options. So unless OU's prez (whether it's Boren, or whever came after him by the time this all happened) really just didn't want to cooperate with Texas... which is possible, I suppose...then I find it even harder to imagine a scenario where the two schools don't go to the next conference together than I find it to imagine the GOR coming apart before the contracts are up. And if OU were to decide that, in fact, they didn't want to cooperate with Texas and end up in the same conference, it might be far more likely that OU would be the one making the choice not to play Texas, if not in an actual decision, then in the way they make the actions.

If the two schools somehow go separate ways and it doesn't get crazy or messy? Sure, I'm sure they'd still play each other. But coming up with a way where the two schools go in different directions in the immediate future (particularly before the TV contracts are up) and it not being messy seems like one of the least likely scenarios discussed on the thread.

 

[Gramps]

I used to hate arky when they were in the SWC. But, I think they would be the best addition. They are decent in all major sports and are a geographic fit. Travel cost savings are good in times like these. If the B12 can't land the premier school of a given state then I would think twice. We have enough secondary schools in our conference. Compare the SEC/Big10: The SEC has only 4 of its 14 schools that are not the prominent state school(a&m,vandy,miss st,auburn) while the B1G also has 4 of its 14 schools (purdue,rutgers,northwestern,mich state). Let's look at the Big 12: 6 of our 10 schools are not the main state school-tx tech,baylor,tcu,okie lite,k-state,iowa st. I am not saying that Memphis/Cincy or the like are deal breakers, but, they should just think twice.

Hogs aren't leaving the sec,

 

[MiccoMacey]

MrT,

Yes, I think Texas would be a huge draw to any conference, regardless what A&M fans say about the SEC and their new "One team per state" unwritten rule.

Texas is a huge national brand, with tons of resources. Academically and athletically, it only makes sense for any conference to want to add Texas, especially with OU potentially as a package deal.

I have no idea what plans Texas might have if OU were to attempt to pull away from the Big Twelve. My narrative with Scholz was solely related to what OU might do.

However, there is the elephant in the room...The Longhorn Network. From memory alone, it was one of the sticking points in the last go round of possible moves by Big Twelve teams prior to the GOR. I think Larry Scott and the PAC-12 conference said it could be worked around, but I thought the rumors concerning the Big Ten were that Texas would be a no deal with the LHN in place as it currently is, as they have their own BTN. Inevitably, if the Big Twelve does disband, the LHN will be a sticking point of contention that will have to be vetted heavily if Texas wants to join a different P5 conference, unless Texas wants to go the Independent route (which Texas could do considering its reputation and national brand).

 

[misterTeasyEmalcomXf'inAkicksome]

MrT,

Yes, I think Texas would be a huge draw to any conference, regardless what A&M fans say about the SEC and their new "One team per state" unwritten rule.

Texas is a huge national brand, with tons of resources. Academically and athletically, it only makes sense for any conference to want to add Texas, especially with OU potentially as a package deal.

I have no idea what plans Texas might have if OU were to attempt to pull away from the Big Twelve. My narrative with Scholz was solely related to what OU might do.

However, there is the elephant in the room...The Longhorn Network. From memory alone, it was one of the sticking points in the last go round of possible moves by Big Twelve teams prior to the GOR. I think Larry Scott and the PAC-12 conference said it could be worked around, but I thought the rumors concerning the Big Ten were that Texas would be a no deal with the LHN in place as it currently is, as they have their own BTN. Inevitably, if the Big Twelve does disband, the LHN will be a sticking point of contention that will have to be vetted heavily if Texas wants to join a different P5 conference, unless Texas wants to go the Independent route (which Texas could do considering its reputation and national brand).

Yes, the LHN did come up a lot last time around, but so did possible ways to deal with it when tying it in to other conference networks or possibly even getting rid of it since some of the conference networks would give at least some of the desired coverage and other conferences might pay out more to each team, particularly with an expansion that includes Texas. Clearly, the powers that be at the time decided to stick with the LHN as is for now, but I mean... it was DeLoss Dodds' baby. We've had a change at University president and a couple changes at athletic director since then, and while keeping the LHN is obviously desirable, that desire would have to be balanced against the desire to be in a power conference, if indeed Oklahoma and/or Texas eventually left the Big 12.

The independent route, I feel, is a little more problematic than a lot of people think. Looking at the two other big independent schools supports that. Texas wants a national stage for ALL of their sports, not just football, so BYU's route of finding a smaller, regional conference to host the non-football sports isn't likely to go over well. The Southland or Sun Belt would be out of the question. The American or Mountain West probably would too. And whatever is left of the Big 12? Well, that MIGHT work, but I can't imagine that a reasonably desirable Kansas, for example, would just stay put after Texas and OU left, so that would make it less likely too.

Notre Dame, on the other hand, used to have their ideal situation with the Big East, which was questionable with football towards the end, but a great place for basketball, etc. But when the Big East came apart, even they had to make a deal with the ACC to play more ACC teams in football. So the question is, which conference would Texas be able to pull off that kind of deal with. We know the Big 10 hasn't ever accepted that kind of situation with Notre Dame, so they're probably not going to change their minds for Texas. The SEC? I mean, I guess it's possible, but seems unlikely. They don't seem like they're out to make a deal with anyone to get better football games. Their big games get plenty of hype already. The ACC seems like they'd probably consider it. But Boston, Syracuse, etc., would all be a hell of a trek for all the non-football sports to make regularly. Granted, that's not a deal breaker completely, but it's also not an answer that's obvious in its appeal. And the Pac-12 has the same situation. It'd be one thing to join either the ACC or Pac-12 as full members WITH a few more nearby teams (like OU, Tech, or whoever) but having your closest conference rival in non-football sports be either 870 miles away (Florida State), or 893 miles (Arizona)... I'd imagine the entire non-conference slate would have to be schools from Texas or a neighboring state for most sports.

I think it would be far more likely that Texas would be willing to negotiate how or if the LHN fit into their new conference of choice, and again, I feel like the question of whether Texas and Oklahoma would play as an annual OOC series would end up being moot because, again unless Boren or his successor just want to make things difficult, Texas and Oklahoma seem more likely to end up in the same other conference than not to... if/when they actually exit the Big 12 (which I don't think will be before the TV contracts are up).

 

[bubba2023]

It would be nice to actually know what it takes to get out of the GOR. I can't imagine it's that easy which makes Boren's boasting seem pretty hollow.

 

[HornsRuleU]

Honest question:

As president of OU, does Boren pay much attention to research and teaching, or is his entire focus on athletics and the Big 12?

 

[topdecktiger]

It would be nice to actually know what it takes to get out of the GOR. I can't imagine it's that easy which makes Boren's boasting seem pretty hollow.

This article was posted on another board today. It pretty much spells it out. http://big12fanatics.com/expansion-project-grant-rights/

The thing to remember is, a grant of rights is not unique to sports. It is used all kinds of different fields. That being the case, it would be a lot harder to break than a lot of people assume.

 

[Scholz]

Honest question:

As president of OU, does Boren pay much attention to research and teaching, or is his entire focus on athletics and the Big 12?

No kidding. More like an AD. Same thing up there though.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Honest question:

As president of OU, does Boren pay much attention to research and teaching, or is his entire focus on athletics and the Big 12?

"The University of Oklahoma is No. 1 among all public and private universities in the enrollment of freshman National Merit Scholars. OU is home to over 800 currently enrolled National Merit Scholars."

"Two years ago, OU was the only university in the nation, public or private, to have a Rhodes Scholar, a Marshall Scholar, a Mitchell Scholar, a Truman Scholar, a Goldwater Scholar, and a Fulbright Scholar, all in the same year."

"OU is the only public university in the nation to be awarded the prestigious Davis Cup two consecutive years in recognition of its record-setting enrollment of United World College international freshmen"

" In 2011, OU achieved the Carnegie Foundation's highest tier of research activity classification."

Just a few things under Boren's watch.

 

[Scholz]

Yep. OU definitely gives a lot of free rides out to the national merit scholars. They like to tout that stat a lot.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Yep. OU definitely gives a lot of free rides out to the national merit scholars. They like to tout that stat a lot.

Hey, you gotta have something in your life to promote. "Number one ranked beer pong tournament among both public and private universities" sounds nice, but not much to hang your hat on. Unless you're Chico State.

 

[HornsRuleU]

The University of Texas used to focus on NM scholars, too, but it was far from a free ride. $1500 per year, I think it was. I'm not sure what it accomplishes, frankly. It gets the brand out there, if it makes the news. Texas stopped wasting money on that B.S. long ago.

A university builds via investing in facilities and professors to get research grants, not via the PSAT scores of its current batch of students.

If that's your main focus, it's like having big-spending bag men who buy recruits who all happen to have great long jumps and bench presses, with little focus on good coaches who can teach football and morals, nor the facilities to turn those recruits into NFL players.

 

[candid]

The issue is possible vs. probable. Sure, it's possible, to break the GOR. It just isn't likely. Until there is better evidence that it's likely to break a GOR, that option is off the table.

What is the GOR amt of the Big 12? Just wondering.

 

[HornosaurusRex]

What is the GOR amt of the Big 12? Just wondering.

It grants (transfers) ownership from the Member Institution to the Conference 'the right to produce and distribute all events of such Member Institution that are subject to the Telecast Rights Agreements' for the duration of the term, July 1, 2012 through June 30, 2025.

Big 12 Grant of Rights

Hook 'em

 

[RoboCocks21]

"The University of Oklahoma is No. 1 among all public and private universities in the enrollment of freshman National Merit Scholars. OU is home to over 800 currently enrolled National Merit Scholars."

"Two years ago, OU was the only university in the nation, public or private, to have a Rhodes Scholar, a Marshall Scholar, a Mitchell Scholar, a Truman Scholar, a Goldwater Scholar, and a Fulbright Scholar, all in the same year."

"OU is the only public university in the nation to be awarded the prestigious Davis Cup two consecutive years in recognition of its record-setting enrollment of United World College international freshmen"

" In 2011, OU achieved the Carnegie Foundation's highest tier of research activity classification."

Just a few things under Boren's watch.

Wait a minute did you get that from the commercial?

 

[Scholz]

What is the GOR amt of the Big 12? Just wondering.

The revenue share for the Big XII schools was $25.2M each last school year.

 

[TX1972]

The University of Texas used to focus on NM scholars, too, but it was far from a free ride. $1500 per year, I think it was. I'm not sure what it accomplishes, frankly. It gets the brand out there, if it makes the news. Texas stopped wasting money on that B.S. long ago.

A university builds via investing in facilities and professors to get research grants, not via the PSAT scores of its current batch of students.

If that's your main focus, it's like having big-spending bag men who buy recruits who all happen to have great long jumps and bench presses, with little focus on good coaches who can teach football and morals, nor the facilities to turn those recruits into NFL players.

When my oldest daughter was a NM scholar, UT offered free tuition for 2 years, 4 if you maintained a 3.5 average. OU offered a full ride, but OU sucks.

 

[Mister Moses]

No kidding. More like an AD. Same thing up there though.

Yea, but the UT president had to fly with Charlie to Tulsa to beg Gilbert to take the position he turned down the first time. He also was recruiting for Charlie for UT. Scholz you can spin it anyway you want it, but you have burnt up all your damn tires. Everyone knows your a bigot when it comes to OU. I love you Scholz always entertaining for your method of whining.

 

[Scholz]

Everyone knows your a bigot when it comes to OU.

It's "you're", twelve toe. You're welcome.

And we have a real university, not a football factory juco like you illiterate, redneck wifebeaters. Just an FYI.

BTW, little girl, did you take back your bald faced lies about Charlie Strong? Didn't think so. Because you're a lying POS human being.