Dak vs Ash, for real?

[dtrain87]

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...own-chose-david-ash-cowboys-star-dak-prescott

He likely would have ended up at WR/RB or safety at UT under Brown anyway. Mullen is good at coaching QBs, Smith, Tebow, Newton and Dak.

 

[bubba2023]

We obviously chose Ash over lots of probably better candidates, but I don't remember ever even recruiting Dak? He was an Louisianna kid which Mack rarely went OOS. He went to Mississippi State, so I imagine that any program with a pulse at the time could have got him. Hell we missed on Carson Wentz as well. It was between Ash and Walsh, not Ash and Dak.

Does every fanbase play this game or is it just ours?

 

[Charlie Mang]

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...own-chose-david-ash-cowboys-star-dak-prescott

He likely would have ended up at WR/RB or safety at UT under Brown anyway. Mullen is good at coaching QBs, Smith, Tebow, Newton and Dak.

He didn't do that with VY. Why make up crap when reality is bad enough.

 

[oldhorn2]

Ash was not a bad QB....in fact he would have maybe been very good. When you go out with concussions like he did it is easy to forget how good he was.

 

[dtrain87]

He didn't do that with VY. Why make up crap when reality is bad enough.

VY was a 5 star all-American, not a 3 star. VY was also 6'5", not 6'2". Many of the same critics that are now calling for Strong to go were saying make VY a WR and that he was too DUMB to pick up college offenses... Ash had talent, just had bad break and too many coaching changes. I'll take a 6'4" 2A QB that has never even made the playoffs and never passed and has ZERO leadership qualities over a playoff QB from a 4A state semis/quarters team (JT Barrett)? That is the type of thinking that was going on at the 40 Acres.

 

[bubba2023]

Yes the people calling for Strong to go all wanted VY to move to WR, and the people wanting Strong to stay all clearly knew VY was the man.

 

[dtrain87]

red shirt fish-10-3 after taking job after Arkansas home loss. Mock came in in passing situations because he had not been brought up to par on passing offense by staff.
sophomore-11-1, rose Bowl MVP
junior 13-0 BCS champs and game MVP. He lost 3 games in 3 years as a starter? 2-1 bowl record. The dude was GREAT, but some folks wanted him to be switched to WR as a red shirt freshman, never mind the 5 star rating, stellar HS career and so on? I am saying that some circles of so-called UT fan folk can't see the end result because they are very biased when it comes to some people. VY, more impact at WR or taking every snap at QB? It took time to build Louisville and it is taking time to clean house and rebuild UT despite lack of support by former AD for two years. I don't wanna see some coach come in and win with his kids, when his building program was cut short far too soon. He wasn't my choice (Shaw/Briles) and I thought Watson was a mistake from jump, but at least give the guy a chance to complete his job/mission.

 

[Charlie Mang]

VY was a 5 star all-American, not a 3 star. VY was also 6'5", not 6'2". Many of the same critics that are now calling for Strong to go were saying make VY a WR and that he was too DUMB to pick up college offenses... Ash had talent, just had bad break and too many coaching changes. I'll take a 6'4" 2A QB that has never even made the playoffs and never passed and has ZERO leadership qualities over a playoff QB from a 4A state semis/quarters team (JT Barrett)? That is the type of thinking that was going on at the 40 Acres.

Is the 6'4" qb Swoopes? If yes, wasn't his hometown 1A. And didn't his team lose 9 games his sr year. Like I said the reality is bad enough without making stuff up. By the way, do you have a problem with Coach Strong moving Heard to receiver, or is that OK?

 

[diadevic]

VY was a 5 star all-American, not a 3 star. VY was also 6'5", not 6'2". Many of the same critics that are now calling for Strong to go were saying make VY a WR and that he was too DUMB to pick up college offenses... Ash had talent, just had bad break and too many coaching changes. I'll take a 6'4" 2A QB that has never even made the playoffs and never passed and has ZERO leadership qualities over a playoff QB from a 4A state semis/quarters team (JT Barrett)? That is the type of thinking that was going on at the 40 Acres.

That's news to me.

 

[oldhorn2]

VY was a 5 star all-American, not a 3 star. VY was also 6'5", not 6'2". Many of the same critics that are now calling for Strong to go were saying make VY a WR and that he was too DUMB to pick up college offenses... Ash had talent, just had bad break and too many coaching changes. I'll take a 6'4" 2A QB that has never even made the playoffs and never passed and has ZERO leadership qualities over a playoff QB from a 4A state semis/quarters team (JT Barrett)? That is the type of thinking that was going on at the 40 Acres.

Never did I ever hear of ANYONE wanting to convert VY to WR....Sorry, I will have to see a link to that. Of course that could have happened before my time ....leather helments and all
VY was the # 1 HS player that year and had led his team to the 5A championship. Anyone saying he couldnt play QB would have been laughed out of town.

 

[oldhorn2]

Honestly Dtrain...I dont disagree with the bulk of your message.....I just never heard of anyone saying VY should be anything but a QB

 

[bubba2023]

That population did exist, I am not denying that. I do deny that somehow you've managed to align that population as the same population that wants Strong gone which is ridiculous.

 

[bubba2023]

Honestly Dtrain...I dont disagree with the bulk of your message.....I just never heard of anyone saying VY should be anything but a QB

It was there. I don't have any links. You have to remember that from day 1 VY was elite running the ball, but could barely complete a forward pass. He was Swoopesesque as a passer. We were loaded then and we didn't lose many games, but VY nearly cost us the 04 Kansas and Missouri games. So that faction was there. Plus we didn't really have any elite WRs which VY would have been.

 

[cwillfromdatx]

I always thought Ash was a good QB. Just had concussion problems. If he didn't have any problems, we would be looking at winning team. I do agree we missed on some talented QB's but in most cases Mack Brown didn't go OOS and you can't take everyone. I do think Strong has had a battle with folks before he even set foot on campus. We been spoiled here for awhile. It's been QB play that has hurt UT and i never thought Heard was a QB but as we most know, he was hype up by most UT fans as the next VY.

 

[bubba2023]

Ash was a solid QB.

As far as Dak, there are tons of programs that didn't offer him. Maybe LSU for instance. I don't know how this comes back to Texas on how Brown want Ash over a kid from Louisiana that we weren't even recruiting. It would make more sense if Dak was from Texas.

Brown nor any other coach for that matter can sign every hidden gem in the state of Texas, and even less so if you going to include other states as well.

 

[oldhorn2]

Mack didnt go OOS for QB's???...Mack didnt go IN state for QB's...How many came up within 50 miles of the 40 that Mack didnt even sniff at?

I also dont agree that VY could not pass. He completed many many yards worth in HS. He just had this goofy sidearm throw that every coach tried to change to bad effect. When they quit trying to coach that out of him , he excelled.

 

[dtrain87]

Saw VY against Westlake. Westlake went up two scores and after that neither team could stop the other. VY rushed for like 100 and passed for like 350 or so in a semis game at the Astrodome in 2001. He could pass in HS, but never know how that translates to college. His red-shirt year UT didn't develop his in their passing scheme, figuring he would just be a change of pace QB, but he took over after the Arkansas loss and helped beat a good KSU team in Austin. VY was listed 6'4" 200 at Madison, but blew up to 235 after hitting the training table.

Mack didnt go OOS for QB's???...Mack didnt go IN state for QB's...How many came up within 50 miles of the 40 that Mack didnt even sniff at?

I also dont agree that VY could not pass. He completed many many yards worth in HS. He just had this goofy sidearm throw that every coach tried to change to bad effect. When they quit trying to coach that out of him , he excelled.

Simms from NJ.

 

[Charlie Mang]

red shirt fish-10-3 after taking job after Arkansas home loss. Mock came in in passing situations because he had not been brought up to par on passing offense by staff.
sophomore-11-1, rose Bowl MVP
junior 13-0 BCS champs and game MVP. He lost 3 games in 3 years as a starter? 2-1 bowl record. The dude was GREAT, but some folks wanted him to be switched to WR as a red shirt freshman, never mind the 5 star rating, stellar HS career and so on? I am saying that some circles of so-called UT fan folk can't see the end result because they are very biased when it comes to some people. VY, more impact at WR or taking every snap at QB? It took time to build Louisville and it is taking time to clean house and rebuild UT despite lack of support by former AD for two years. I don't wanna see some coach come in and win with his kids, when his building program was cut short far too soon. He wasn't my choice (Shaw/Briles) and I thought Watson was a mistake from jump, but at least give the guy a chance to complete his job/mission.

Was bias in play when Strong/Gilbert moved Heard to WR? When is moving a black qb to wr bias, and when is it a move that's right for the team and player?

I'd like to see Strong have a chance to finish the job as well. But he's going to have to do his part, starting with a win at home over Iowa State. Do you agree with that?

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

VY was a 5 star all-American, not a 3 star. VY was also 6'5", not 6'2". Many of the same critics that are now calling for Strong to go were saying make VY a WR and that he was too DUMB to pick up college offenses... Ash had talent, just had bad break and too many coaching changes. I'll take a 6'4" 2A QB that has never even made the playoffs and never passed and has ZERO leadership qualities over a playoff QB from a 4A state semis/quarters team (JT Barrett)? That is the type of thinking that was going on at the 40 Acres.

VY was a phenom at Texas from the start. His talent was obvious. Please do not compare VY's elite NCAA abilities to Strong's poor coaching at Texas.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Saw VY against Westlake. Westlake went up two scores and after that neither team could stop the other. VY rushed for like 100 and passed for like 350 or so in a semis game at the Astrodome in 2001. He could pass in HS, but never know how that translates to college. His red-shirt year UT didn't develop his in their passing scheme, figuring he would just be a change of pace QB, but he took over after the Arkansas loss and helped beat a good KSU team in Austin. VY was listed 6'4" 200 at Madison, but blew up to 235 after hitting the training table.

Pure, unfounded speculation. I never read anything relating to your accusation. I was at every Texas home game from the fall of 2002 through 2005. VY was unstoppable from beginning to end.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

We obviously chose Ash over lots of probably better candidates, but I don't remember ever even recruiting Dak? He was an Louisianna kid which Mack rarely went OOS. He went to Mississippi State, so I imagine that any program with a pulse at the time could have got him. Hell we missed on Carson Wentz as well. It was between Ash and Walsh, not Ash and Dak.

Does every fanbase play this game or is it just ours?

The OP seems like a bitter Aggie and trashes all things Texas daily.

 

[dtrain87]

VY was a phenom at Texas from the start. His talent was obvious. Please do not compare VY's elite NCAA abilities to Strong's poor coaching at Texas.

We are comparing the FANS that didn't want to give a red-shirt freshman a fair chance and NOW don't want to give a REBUILD from NADA HC a fair chance to do his job.

 

[dtrain87]

Was bias in play when Strong/Gilbert moved Heard to WR? When is moving a black qb to wr bias, and when is it a move that's right for the team and player?

I'd like to see Strong have a chance to finish the job as well. But he's going to have to do his part, starting with a win at home over Iowa State. Do you agree with that?

No one said anything about a black QB. I would not have recruited UNDERSIZED Shane for QB, he's too small to run zone read and take punishment w/o being protected by the running game and 18 Wheeler package. UT should be able to get good dual threat QBs with NFL size, IMO.

 

[Charlie Mang]

No one said anything about a black QB. I would not have recruited UNDERSIZED Shane for QB, he's too small to run zone read and take punishment w/o being protected by the running game and 18 Wheeler package. UT should be able to get good dual threat QBs with NFL size, IMO.

dtrain I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but you wrote, "I am saying that some circles of so-called UT fan folk can't see the end result because they are very biased when it comes to some people." I interpreted that you meant racial bias. Sorry if that's not what you meant, but it sure seems that's what you meant.

But apparently, you don't detect bias in Strong's decision to move Heard to WR. Heard seems to be exactly the dual threat qb with a stellar high school resume you think UT should recruit. How come you're not posting anything about bias associated with Strong's decision to move Heard?

You also wrote, "NOW don't want to give a REBUILD from NADA HC a fair chance to do his job." I want to give him a fair chance, but if he doesn't win at least 6 games this season and become bowl eligible is that being unfair?

 

[weevilcatch]

Never did I ever hear of ANYONE wanting to convert VY to WR....Sorry, I will have to see a link to that. Of course that could have happened before my time ....leather helments and all
VY was the # 1 HS player that year and had led his team to the 5A championship. Anyone saying he couldnt play QB would have been laughed out of town.

Yeah, I don't know any fans that wanted VY to move to WR in lieu of Chance Mock...

 

[dtrain87]

Watson was a horrible recruiter with a complicated offense. Why is the UT recruiting 6'0" 170 QBs like Matthews, Heard and Shane? UT should have NFL talent QBs and kids that look like the QB for UT. You won't see kids like that on the Michigan or OSU roster. Heard was too small also at 6'1" 190 trying to run the ball... The kid got banged up and is now at his natural position. How or why was Watson recruiting him for a WC offense? UT should have kids 210 plus at least 6'1" that are legit dual threat kids with good to great arms. imagine a UT roster with Knight, Barrett and Mayfield and Mahommes? Better recruiting at that position has to come and it begins with Ehlinger, 6'1" 210 and a legit dual threat that passes the ball. Shane will end up being a Joey Florence when more talent gets here, IMO.

 

[oldhorn2]

Heard was recurited by Mack....Watson may never have heard of Heard before he got here. Strongs first job when he got here ( January for christ's sake) was trying and succeeding to keep Heard.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

We are comparing the FANS that didn't want to give a red-shirt freshman a fair chance and NOW don't want to give a REBUILD from NADA HC a fair chance to do his job.

No comparison. VY was a winner at Texas. Chuck is not.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Watson was a horrible recruiter with a complicated offense. Why is the UT recruiting 6'0" 170 QBs like Matthews, Heard and Shane? UT should have NFL talent QBs and kids that look like the QB for UT. You won't see kids like that on the Michigan or OSU roster. Heard was too small also at 6'1" 190 trying to run the ball... The kid got banged up and is now at his natural position. How or why was Watson recruiting him for a WC offense? UT should have kids 210 plus at least 6'1" that are legit dual threat kids with good to great arms. imagine a UT roster with Knight, Barrett and Mayfield and Mahommes? Better recruiting at that position has to come and it begins with Ehlinger, 6'1" 210 and a legit dual threat that passes the ball. Shane will end up being a Joey Florence when more talent gets here, IMO.

Precisely why Chuck won't be here next year

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

No one said anything about a black QB. I would not have recruited UNDERSIZED Shane for QB, he's too small to run zone read and take punishment w/o being protected by the running game and 18 Wheeler package. UT should be able to get good dual threat QBs with NFL size, IMO.

He doesn't see past his bias

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

We are comparing the FANS that didn't want to give a red-shirt freshman a fair chance and NOW don't want to give a REBUILD from NADA HC a fair chance to do his job.

Who are these "fans" that didn't want to give a redshirt freshman a chance? How many were there? Cite your references with links. Strong has coached 30 games and has a 13-17 record. VY never had a losing record at Texas. You are reaching & do not make a lick of sense.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Never did I ever hear of ANYONE wanting to convert VY to WR....Sorry, I will have to see a link to that. Of course that could have happened before my time ....leather helments and all
VY was the # 1 HS player that year and had led his team to the 5A championship. Anyone saying he couldnt play QB would have been laughed out of town.

He (the OP) is making sh!t up.

 

[cwillfromdatx]

Who are these "fans" that didn't want to give a redshirt freshman a chance? How many were there? Cite your references with links. Strong has coached 30 games and has a 13-17 record. VY never had a losing record at Texas. You are reaching & do not make a lick of sense.

VY did have a better D versus Shane having a very poor D.
All of you guys making valid points. I never heard no one wanted to move VY to WR. He was a beast, PERIOD. UT should be looking at bigger QB's. Strong will not last if his D doesn't improve and that's a fact. I think Strong will be here next year but anything less than a 10 win season next year and he's gone but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the axe at the end of the season.

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

Yeah, I don't know any fans that wanted VY to move to WR in lieu of Chance Mock...

It was blatantly obvious that VY was the better QB. The instant VY made his first appearance at QB for Texas, he led the offense down the field on a rampage. Both sides of DKR roared like thunder. I was there!

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

Back to Ash...in HS, didn't he have more passing yardage than Manziel?