THIS. I can say Strong screwed up and still like him. Others can't for some reason. Like I have said a million times, I hate the ALL or NOTHING crowd.
Maybe I have dipped into the Kool-Aid.....
- Thread starter swVAHorn
- Start date
swVA...I remember from the get go that you said Watson was a very bed idea....you were right, and for the very reasons that you mentioned. However, I thought that Wickline was a home run hire at the time.
In retrospect, I am glad that Strong went ahead and cleared out the knuckleheads all at once even though it left us with little. The results were predictable.....just not accecptable. Had we been able to find a QB we would have fared better. We had buzzard luck all the way through, but we could have /should have had another loss against Iowa State in 2014.
In the end I hold Strong totally accountable, but not entirely responsible for all the bad things that happened the last 2 years. However, I am sure he would be the first to tell you that it was all on him, as it should be.
In retrospect, I am glad that Strong went ahead and cleared out the knuckleheads all at once even though it left us with little. The results were predictable.....just not accecptable. Had we been able to find a QB we would have fared better. We had buzzard luck all the way through, but we could have /should have had another loss against Iowa State in 2014.
In the end I hold Strong totally accountable, but not entirely responsible for all the bad things that happened the last 2 years. However, I am sure he would be the first to tell you that it was all on him, as it should be.
Well said and pretty much how I see it. You said it better than me. I just disagree with longyac that it was totally talent and nothing but talent. It was both. What you said about Strong taking the blame is dead on accurate. He has not backed down from being responsible. I wish some fans would do the same. I thought Wickline was a homerun too and I was wrong. Fit does matter. But Texas is on the road to success right now and I believe the future is bright.
Well personally I think Strong is still finding his place as the CEO of a big time program. I think he has strengths and weaknesses. His strengths are recruiting and defense and relating to players. He obviously needs help on the offensive side of the ball and he's also made some very bad coaching staff decisions which have severely hampered this UT team the past 3 years.
IMO if Gilbert can come in here with his offense and Buechele/Ehlinger can get us scoring points this year and next, the sky is the limit for Strong at UT. I mean the freaking sky. However if we can't make significant strides soon, he will have missed a golden opportunity. As a UT fan I'm really pulling for him and us. Really hope Gilbert can get us going.
IMO if Gilbert can come in here with his offense and Buechele/Ehlinger can get us scoring points this year and next, the sky is the limit for Strong at UT. I mean the freaking sky. However if we can't make significant strides soon, he will have missed a golden opportunity. As a UT fan I'm really pulling for him and us. Really hope Gilbert can get us going.
This kool-aid in my Bison tumbler sure is cold and tasty!
Solid post Sholz.....It may be that Strong will not turn into a true top tier coach. However, as you state, he has such an incredibly high ceiling potential that I just get giddy thinking about it. If he could pull out 10 wins.( dreaming here) He could possibly come in with the top recruiting class in the Nation...and then hold on for the ride!!...if he gets 9 wins...only slightly less of a ride. If he falls to 6 or 7 wins, then all the recruiting momentum might just melt away.
Old Chinese curse applies here......may you live in interesting times....
Old Chinese curse applies here......may you live in interesting times....
He had 4 weeks from hire to NSD. Two guys considering UL followed him; Ford and Nelson and 2 desperation offers at OL from Mack only have 1 OL in the 2014 class. Ford and Nelson may well have ben emergency takes as well as they are the only DTs in that class.
So far Strong has 1 class that he evaluated and recruited for Texas on campus. The 2015 class.
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Show me who are the sure fire future NFLers Seniors are that can provide leadership. Here is a roster table link. http://insidetexas.com/football/football.php?pg=fb_roster
Any Juniors? D. Foreman. Who else?
How many sure fire future NFLers on your roster does it take to beat ISU, Tech, WVU, or be within 40 points of TCU? SMU managed to stay within 40 points of TCU, so their roster must be loaded.
Ford and Nelson were not emergency takes. They were both offered by Strong and the Louisville staff BEFORE he got the Texas job. And Texas lost A'Shawn Robinson who was committed to Alabama after Mack left... So what you are doing now is ONLY talking about the misses Mack had from that class (which were many)...what about the Foreman Brothers? Would Strong turn those guys down? Vahe? Would Strong not take Vahe? I know Vahe was in the 15 class but he was committed to Mack... When Strong took Rodriguez and Anderson he thought they were good enough to help or they would not have been offered....why would you offer someone you know will never play or contribute? For practice? I don't understand your logic on saying they were desperation takes. Texas lost the OL that went to Ohio St. and the Mauhema brothers that went to LSU one of which is a stud OL because of the coaching change...I blame Mack for a LOT but not that. If Strong were to leave Texas would lose some committed players too and the next coach would be responsible for who he takes.
The HC is not going to offer "just a body" to fill out a roster. They might offer someone on the fence but they are good enough for a Div 1 offer or they ain't taking them. Would you take someone you KNOW sucks?
Strong also did not honor Macks ships past the first year did he? You know why? Because he is not taking someone HE does not want to...by the way he still took Vahe and Hemphill who were both committed to Mack.
I don't care who committed to who. This is Strong's third year, By Mack's third year he had us already playing for the Big 12 title.
If Strong can't do that than he needs to go. It's time to shit or get off the pot, there is no more excuses.
If Strong can't do that than he needs to go. It's time to shit or get off the pot, there is no more excuses.
uh....Mack came into a much better situation than Strong did.....not even close That said...I agree it is time
If we surprise ND because they will not have film on the new offense, have not faced a running attack with the punch and speed this one will have, the wide receivers with the speed and skill we will have, a defense with speed, a QB that can make good and quick decisions and is an accurate passer (SB), and the heat factor they will not be use to and a hostile environment AND then follow that win up with another win over OU then 10 wins is a definitely possibility for this team.
I don't think Texas will win the Big 12 this year although I could be wrong.......but I expect to be in every game and no Iowa St.like games.....always show up and play hard......This is the Texas team to get it going and start winning games again.....if this year goes like the last 2 then there will be a new coach next year....
Strong gets it done though. I am 95% sure he has learned some hard lessons and has fixed some problems. If Texas had a veteran QB then this team should compete for the Big 12....it still should come close.
Might as well give the full quote, and name the coach...
"He can take his'n and beat your'n, and take your'n and beat his'n."
--The late Bum Phillips, referring to Don Shula (and also his former boss, Bear Bryant)
And the Ks (FG and KO). Maybe the P, too.
For a LONG time, Texas had superlative kicking. Every season, or so it seemed. How long has it been, now? Since 27-25? (Justin Tucker, 2011)
Thank HornsruleU. I remember him saying it now. For some reason I was thinking of a different coach when I was posting it.Might as well give the full quote, and name the coach...
"He can take his'n and beat your'n, and take your'n and beat his'n."
--The late Bum Phillips, referring to Don Shula (and also his former boss, Bear Bryant)
What Bum said is true....coaching DOES matter.
Not sure the "they won't be ready" stuff here make much sense....
For RBs, in the last 2 seasons ND has faced
Eliott (Ohio State)
Fournette (LSU)
Cook (Florida State)
McCaffery (Stanford)
Gallman (Clemson)
That's essentially the "who's who" of CFB RBs.....I don't think Texas's RBs are going to be in some class beyond these guys (even NFL RBs aren't)
For QB's, in the last 2 seasons ND has faced
Watson (Clemson)
Kessler (USC)
Hogan (Stanford)
Again, those guys are VERY GOOD, especially in the areas of decision making and accuracy
For WR's, in the last 2 seasons...
Juju Smith (USC)
Michael Thomas (Ohio State)
Tyler Boyd (Pitt)
Rashaad Green (Florida State)
And fast/athletic defenses.....
Ohio State
LSU
Florida State
USC
Clemson
Texas has good talent, and some of your players will be the best we've seen in a while or very close to it (Malik Jeffferson)......but Texas's talent isn't going to shock ND or be something they're unfamiliar with
Hey Decker.....Although I live 80 miles south of Austin, the temps stay pretty close. Anyway...on May 20 at my house it was 82 degrees at 10 PM.....Might be a tad warmer in September( our hottest month) I hope those well prepared players you are so proud of dont run out of gas......
swVAHorn, you would have to agree that, given that Strong was hired with less than a month to go before NSD, the 2014 class likely looked very little like the one he would have assembled if he had control of it from the beginning. Only Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could show up with such little time and possibly turn an underwhelming recruiting class into something far better by NSD.
The only course of action Strong could have reasonably been expected to undertake during that month was to (1) work like hell to hold as much of the class together as possible, (2) strongly encourage some of Mack's biggest head-scratcher offers to look elsewhere, and (3) replace defections and fill remaining spots with players who didn't "suck," even if most may never have come close to receiving an offer with Strong in charge of a full recruiting cycle (and that applies to Ford and Nelson as well, given that the recruiting ceiling at Texas if far higher than at Louisville). There's a great deal of room between "good enough for an FBS offer" and good enough to be a player that Strong would offer under normal circumstances.
I'm not sure you actually disagree with what I'm saying, but I can't tell for certain from what you've written.
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Interestingly enough, I'm in Austin at this very moment (best friend's bachelor party)
I've been in Austin since Thursday, and I can't say the heat has bothered me at all yet....it hasn't felt appreciably warmer here than what I'm used to in Wisconsin (which is even a touch colder than Indiana)
I seriously doubt that the tempature after 7pm is going to affect the game in any significant way...........but there is nothing wrong with holding out hope that it will!!
The weather is cooler than usual in Austin right now. Maybe it will stay that way all summer. But it's not uncommon for it to be 95º and humid at 10pm in August or early September.
I doubt the heat will end up being a factor, but I do hope we have one of our miserable 105º+ days when ND comes to town.
Strong would have signed a better class if he had more time but the class he signed was rated top 25 wasn't it? Would he not take the Foreman brothers? and others that are playing pretty well from that class? like Freeman before injury? Hall? I am just sick of excuses for everything.....NO coach gets 4 full recruiting cycles before he is expected to do what he was paid to do. Longyac was saying it needs to be Strongs guys before he is responsible. I was just trying to point out some guys Mack took were takes no matter the coach...not all of them suck....YES some did. Not all. Afterall why didn't Watson get 4 years to get his guys? And so on with the other coaches? Because Strong saw that they were not up to the job by how the guys they DID have played. I agree with you that he would have probably done better with the players but if he had the same coaches I think he gets the same results.
Looked..the class was rated 20th that year. Not an awful throw away class.
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I don't really disagree much with what you've said; I just think it's more a matter of emphasis.
To me, what stands out most about the 2014 class is the fact that you can count on one hand the number of guys -- out of 23 signees -- who have made or look likely to make any significant positive impact (everyone's still waiting on Armanti; not entirely sure that Charlie would have offered someone who has always practiced and played with such inconsistent effort, to be honest). Most are getting buried on the depth chart by younger guys with obviously superior talent. Yes, it's true that there are players from the class that would be takes in any year, but they're pretty heavily outnumbered by the ones that would not.
The class ranking is not irrelevant, but it means a lot less to me when the staff putting most of the class together spent a tiny fraction of the time and effort on evaluation (with heavily reliance on recruiting websites) that the current staff does -- or any other staff actually doing good work in recruiting, as borne out in post-NSD on-field results. All of Mack's later overrated classes were either ranked similarly or better, but evaluation had been pathetic for years, and the results are clear: those classes weren't as good as we and the recruiting services thought. It's not only about raw talent, either. Proper evaluation involves finding good information about temperament as well. When he was at Auburn, Tommy Tuberville said that his staff only looked for guys that play hard every single snap. If you're recruiting off of Rivals highlight reels rather than putting in the hard work of scouting and sleuthing in other ways (talking not just to coaches, but watching actual games, talking to teachers, etc.), it's easy to be beguiled by a particular four-star's athletic ability and never actually see that he is a low-effort guy and poor teammate with an enormous sense of entitlement. Three-stars are abundant, but it takes some actual effort and work (and skill) to have a high hit rate with the ones that can be top players on any team. If you're going to recruit in the manner that Mack and his staff did in later years, it's pretty easy to put together a class that ranks well enough but is actually not anything special, for the simple reason that the hit rate will be much poorer than it would be with diligent evaluation.
I'm not arguing that Strong didn't make serious mistakes with his offensive staff, or that the team doesn't need to show a big improvement this year. But people with realistic expectations -- and I believe yours are -- understand that a team with most of its talent and its numbers concentrated in the freshman and sophomore classes is unlikely to be a real threat to win the Big 12 this year. The realistic expectations would be substantially different if that 2014 class looked anything like the two classes that are genuinely Charlie's rather than very much like the other classes that Mack signed in his later years.
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I agree with you and I hope that you don't think I thought the 14 class was great or anything like that. I just believe a good coach and staff are expected to improve the players they do have. Out of those other teams ranked in the top 25 in recruiting that year was Texas the only one that was ranked out of place? Or so badly out of place I should say?
I guess it falls into the dreaded groups of "its the coaching" or "its the talent".....I fall somewhere in the middle. If the 14 class was a Strong class and none of Macks I think we have a pretty similar record because of the offensive coaches hired. That first staff had no business at The University of Texas.
But I have made clear I thought we had more talent than we did have...And in this thread I also believe we got the coaches in place now and the players (except QB and DL) to compete at a high level. I do not think this is the championship year but I think next year the Big 12 is a realistic goal for this team. I hope we win 8 or 9 this year....would be happy if we won 1 or 2 that people did not think we would win and NOT lose to an Iowa st the WAY that we did.
I wish I was half as good at giving my thoughts in posts as you are BRB. I am just not good enough at explaining myself.
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