Nahlin 9.95 insider on Herman and Texas

2300 Nueces

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Of course we weren’t going to get out of 2020 without significant coaching intrigue. Silly me for thinking otherwise. To better understand where we’re going, let’s take a look at the immediate landscape. After I present the road conditions, I think you’ll understand who the most capable driver is to help the school steer out of the skid. Right now I’m seeing three potential outcomes with varying degrees of likelihood: Tom Herman wins out and saves his job; there is a protracted coaching search; there is a swift, peaceful transition of power.
Let me follow that up with: Herman isn’t winning out; a protracted search, one that extends well into December, has the potential to decimate the roster and recruiting; a peaceful transition of power is ideal for improving the program’s short-term prospects.
Tom Herman: In case you couldn’t tell, Tom Herman is in very hot water. His seat began to warm last year but Chris Del Conte decided to support Herman revitalizing the coaching staff. After a 2-2 start that should be 1-3, Herman has very little chance of saving his tenure. The 25% chance I gave him of keeping his job on Saturday was generous as I worked to find out more. After further discussions I give him much less of a chance. Read between the lines.
It’s hard to find any source of support for Herman at this point. He’s made life tougher for the administration and he’s ticked off the boosters. The problem isn’t so much the record, but also the total lack of team discipline.
I’m going to delete any comments that delve into the political, but to paint a clear picture I have to dance around the third rail a bit. Some of Herman’s quotes over the summer ticked people off. “Who is Tom Herman to lecture me” is a common sentiment. Many blame him for how The Eyes of Texas situation was handled. He was seen as putting the school in a difficult position to deal with it head on. That doesn’t absolve Del Conte, they’re pissed at him too, but Herman entered the season with short leash.
Pride goeth before the fall, and also during the Fall. Herman’s inability to get out of his own way makes football almost worthless to discuss right now. If you were on the fence of whether or not he was meddling too much in the offense, I’m guessing Saturday was clarifying. It’s same old Tom, and same old Tom nearly lost the team in 2017 and again in 2019. This is by far the worst things have been behind the scenes.
Further decimating any leverage Herman might have: his 2021 recruiting class looks transitiony. Given this class is already laboring, do you want this to be the transition class, or the loaded one with the five-star generational quarterback committed? This is easy math.
Chris Del Conte: Where it’s all bad with Herman, it’s a mixed bag with the Athletic Director. Let’s first start with the bad.
The extension to Herman is often cited as his biggest mistake but Del Conte’s inability to foster definitive resolution with player unrest (so much easier said than done) has more people rankled than the extension. Like betting on Herman the first time, the early extension was a calculated bet that didn’t hit. Del Conte had support for it, and it may not have even been his idea in the first place. If it wasn’t, falling on the sword is still his job, but it might restore a little more faith in him. At the time of the extension, it was seen as a long-term money saving play. It’s considered bad business but not an anchor around Del Conte’s neck.
The intertwining of pandemic and politics is terrible timing for Del Conte because it gives boosters much more leverage. Especially when you consider all the ongoing capital projects. Many are demanding he find a solution to The Eyes and general player discord. With a weak figure at head coach that’s incredibly difficult to do. Dare I say, it’s impossible to do.
Del Conte is the one on the hook for fixing this long term. From what I can gather, he still has way more allies than obstacles, and he has the confidence of the president and BOR, but he definitely has a clear fundraising problem. Anecdotes have made their way to the forums here, but it’s even worse than what’s being let on from a financial standpoint at a time where the school took a giant haircut due to the pandemic.
I much prefer to discuss the good of Del Conte. He employs the Frank Windegger approach (old TCU AD) where good football improves the overall college experience on the surface, thus boosting enrollment and all that comes with it. Despite some of you getting into UT, it was even correlated to attracting better students as measured by GPA/SAT. Bad football is bad for the overall brand.
In the end it boils down to improving finances, and we know Texas loves its finances, but in theory this is a good thing for football fans who want to see coaches held accountable to a winning standard.
Del Conte is very proactive in situations like these. I’m sure he has books written on PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, and a few others, but he’s also the sort to be very aggressive and aim high. If there’s a coach out there with a big enough personality to help the program overcome its current woes, that will help that coach’s case immensely. Del Conte needs help on that front. He needs a coach who can return the transactional nature of big time football to the program. It’s amazing how trivial standing with your teammates for a song after a game seems if you’re winning and developing into a millionaire.
CDC/Hartzell/BOR: It’s certainly a positive sign that I can roll these three actors into the same section. While there’s plenty of volatility in the Texas ecosystem, these three central figures are on the same page, with Del Conte having the support of Jay Hartzell and the Board. If we learned anything from the time Texas had the greatest coach of all time gifted to it (the only gift the school ever turned down) only to have it scuttled internally, it’s important to know the pulse of the president, AD, and Board of Regents.
The RRS is an annual opportunity for the decision makers and key boosters to meet and greet. To use an old and familiar phrase, it’s a good time to ensure the BBs are in the box. The biggest immediate issue for this group is two-fold: 1) decide Herman’s fate, or, rather, allow him to continue to do it himself, and, 2) if Herman is to be removed, find a way to pay for the buyout.
If you’re reading between the lines, barring a major turn of events, #1 is mostly decided, and the only way that can happen is if the decision makers have a good handle on #2. I think they have a good handle on #2. While expectations for the season and Herman were high, this group has not been caught flat-footed and they didn’t just start having real talks in the last couple days.
In years past we’ve mentioned, regardless of sport, to not expect a midseason firing. This year isn’t like years past and that outcome is within the realm of possibility. Recruiting is different now, and the Portal also has to be accounted for.
The Boosters: Given the financial climate, this group has more leverage than I can recall. Their finances are green while the school‘s are red. With the big cigars largely sitting on its collective pocketbook, Del Conte is getting to a point where he can’t afford to not make a move, especially since the boosters would foot the bill for it. Whichever group covers that $20+ million will want a say in the ultimate hire. That’s a good thing, if and only if, Texas makes the most obvious call.
If Herman is removed and a real search takes place, Del Conte will have to mollify this group while seeking out more useful input elsewhere. No offense to that group, but that’s how a sound search derails in a hurry. Depending on how this all shakes out, the boosters will either be heroes or goats, but it isn’t fair to lump them all together. Some well known guys are on the sidelines (the old Nick Saban group) while some lesser known figures have assumed integral roles.
This group is like many of you but with more money. They’re incredibly frustrated and just want to win. Some are saying I’m older than ETex, bring me a winner.
#####
Bring me a winner is a common sentiment. There’s been a sea change within wide swaths of the fan base. Many are finding it more palatable to hire a controversial figure. That feeling extends to the boosters. That feeling extends beyond. If you think boosters have leverage right now, think how much a high level candidate would have given the factors outlined. One thing is for sure: The program is in a precarious position and needs a strong centralizing figure to emerge before the BBs start spilling everywhere.
It’ll cost a lot to get it right, it’ll cost more to get it wrong.
 
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KChorn11

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I think Urban is the target and I think Urban is interested.
If it were me I make one call to Urban, put the offer on the table. If you want it the jobs yours if not we’re moving on He should obviously be the number 1 target but I wouldn’t let him jerk goi around only to end up not coming either. Which he might be doing
 
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2300 Nueces

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If it were me I make one call to Urban, put the offer on the table. If you want it the jobs yours if not we’re moving on He should obviously be the number 1 target but I wouldn’t let him jerk goi around only to end up not coming either. Which he might be doing
It's a big decision but I think his choice of the game's winner in the pre-game was his answer. He wanted OU to win so that he could take the job. If the administration can be made to understand, then he is here.

There are some intangibles with Urban Meyer.

His health

We need to help him with some of the pressure by giving him some leeway. He has a cyst in his brain that is exacerbated by stress and he has migraines. We need to give him a #2 guy that can be a coachlike figure. Enter Chris Ash. I think we can get it done.

But before we get a new coach, the SJW rotgut that Tommy Boy is using to poke us in the eye has to go. Tommy is still upset about his strip club buddies getting canned. Tommy is poisoning the well before he moves out.
 
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KChorn11

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It's a big decision but I think his choice of the game's winner in the pre-game was his answer. He wanted OU to win so that he could take the job. I think if the administration can be made to understand, then he is here.

But before we get a new coach, the SJW rotgut that Tommy Boy is using to poke us in the eye has to go. Tommy is still upset about his strip club buddies getting canned and that his ass is about to be kicked to the curb as well. Tommy is poisoning the well before he moves out.
What’s funny is Tom did Urbana’s hiring for him. Chris Ash likely would of been Urban’s choice as DC anyway if he does end up with the job.
 

2300 Nueces

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What’s funny is Tom did Urbana’s hiring for him. Chris Ash likely would of been Urban’s choice as DC anyway if he does end up with the job.
And I think Yurcich is and excellent OC, if he is allowed to call the plays. It's evident that Turtle Tom is still calling the plays after watching the games this season. Herman is an ass.
 
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clob94

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I'm not sure how this isn't common knowledge by now. I've been saying the same thing using slightly different verbiage for over a year now. I know that may sound pompous but, my bad.
 
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SoonerJBD

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You guys have to get past the political stuff. Players are gaining more influence, not less. Mike Gundy‘s issues should be a lesson. You are not going to turn around recruiting if you alienate Black players. As much as you may love your traditions, they may have to change with the times if you want to win. This stuff isn’t going away no matter how much you wish it would.
 

HornNation101

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You guys have to get past the political stuff. Players are gaining more influence, not less. Mike Gundy‘s issues should be a lesson. You are not going to turn around recruiting if you alienate Black players. As much as you may love your traditions, they may have to change with the times if you want to win. This stuff isn’t going away no matter how much you wish it would.
First, our school song is not racist. We have an angry, bitter to the world, black professor claiming every rock and building on campus is racist. We are not trying to alienate anyone. The truth will prevail but it will take a new coach to correct the asinine BLM crap. The weak ass coach we have now is not able to walk and chew gum at the same time much less install discipline.
 

SoonerJBD

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Your school song was performed at minstrel shows as an homage to a confederate mantra to the tune of a song created by ultra wealthy, white 19th Century Princeton students to make fun of black railroad workers. Whether you see it as racist is totally irrelevant at this point. If Black athletes see it as racist, you either drop it or accept that you are alienating them and will miss out on recruits because of it. I personally hope you keep the song and hire some crazy coach who tries to force all his players to stand for it. Because that will cost you even more good players.
 

clob94

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Your school song was performed at minstrel shows as an homage to a confederate mantra to the tune of a song created by ultra wealthy, white 19th Century Princeton students to make fun of black railroad workers. Whether you see it as racist is totally irrelevant at this point. If Black athletes see it as racist, you either drop it or accept that you are alienating them and will miss out on recruits because of it. I personally hope you keep the song and hire some crazy coach who tries to force all his players to stand for it. Because that will cost you even more good players.
Music are notes strung together in harmony. By that rationale, all music is inherently racist. The notes D and G and E flat are in that song-- ergo-- any song with those notes is racist. I can do this all day.
 
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LonghornMM

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Your school song was performed at minstrel shows as an homage to a confederate mantra to the tune of a song created by ultra wealthy, white 19th Century Princeton students to make fun of black railroad workers. Whether you see it as racist is totally irrelevant at this point. If Black athletes see it as racist, you either drop it or accept that you are alienating them and will miss out on recruits because of it. I personally hope you keep the song and hire some crazy coach who tries to force all his players to stand for it. Because that will cost you even more good players.
Funny how The Eyes wasn't "racist" until this year. For decades, it was sung by every fan, student, athlete, professor and Texas Ex with not even a thought of it being racist. The woke youth and SJWs are the problem, not the song.
 

westx

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You guys have to get past the political stuff. Players are gaining more influence, not less. Mike Gundy‘s issues should be a lesson. You are not going to turn around recruiting if you alienate Black players. As much as you may love your traditions, they may have to change with the times if you want to win. This stuff isn’t going away no matter how much you wish it would.
Your school song was performed at minstrel shows as an homage to a confederate mantra to the tune of a song created by ultra wealthy, white 19th Century Princeton students to make fun of black railroad workers. Whether you see it as racist is totally irrelevant at this point. If Black athletes see it as racist, you either drop it or accept that you are alienating them and will miss out on recruits because of it. I personally hope you keep the song and hire some crazy coach who tries to force all his players to stand for it. Because that will cost you even more good players.
Unfortunately, you make some good points. I don't like it and as a matter of fact, I hate it, but this is getting messy. If it were a court of law or a debate team topic, the connections to the "Eyes" origin is difficult to defend. I am afraid it is just a matter or time and it is bye bye to a great tradition that nobody alive would ever suspect any racial undertones. This had to be taught by very angry SJW people looking under every rock for any remote semblance of racism.
 
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KChorn11

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You guys have to get past the political stuff. Players are gaining more influence, not less. Mike Gundy‘s issues should be a lesson. You are not going to turn around recruiting if you alienate Black players. As much as you may love your traditions, they may have to change with the times if you want to win. This stuff isn’t going away no matter how much you wish it would.
Pretty much this. It’s adapt or die. Nick Saban for years bitched about the spread offense and all the high flying attacks. When it started kicking his ass he started brining in the Lane Kiffin’s of the world to bring some of that to Alabama. Gotta change with the times weather you want to or not.
 

BringBackRoyal

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At this point I'm about a half-step shy of "Ain't Got Time For This Sh*t" territory when it comes to Texas sports.

Texas football has been a dysfunctional program in a variety of ways much more often than not for going on four decades now. Don't really see that changing significantly anymore.
 

JDCPAgolferHorn

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Funny how The Eyes wasn't "racist" until this year. For decades, it was sung by every fan, student, athlete, professor and Texas Ex with not even a thought of it being racist. The woke youth and SJWs are the problem, not the song.
Agree. If we were contending year in and year out for a title (any title) and multiple players were being drafted each year, then the players' attention would be focused on just that . . . getting to the league. They wouldn't be riled up by some radical professor that just wants to appear on MSNBC. It wouldn't be in their self interest. But, as it stands, not winning, no real chances of getting to the league, and a woke coach leads to a fertile breeding ground for malcontents.
 
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SoonerJBD

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Funny how The Eyes wasn't "racist" until this year. For decades, it was sung by every fan, student, athlete, professor and Texas Ex with not even a thought of it being racist. The woke youth and SJWs are the problem, not the song.
And for decades no one cried foul about the Confederate battle flag because racism dominated, and Black people were scared to complain. Things change. You adapt or you die. I fully expect OU is going to have to change its mascot in the next decade. I don’t care. Again, it does not matter what I think or what you think. If Black athletes think it is racist, they are not going to feel comfortable with being forced to participate in it.
 
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weevilcatch

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And for decades no one cried foul about the Confederate battle flag because racism dominated, and Black people were scared to complain. Things change. You adapt or you die. I fully expect OU is going to have to change its mascot in the next decade. I don’t care. Again, it does not matter what I think or what you think. If Black athletes think it is racist, they are not going to feel comfortable with being forced to participate in it.
Because at some point adults need to step in and say enough is enough.

Where does it stop?

I find it interesting that your stance is that you want these changes so your school can refrain from “alienating” the black athlete and thus have a successful football team.

Seems pretty racist new account, low post guy.
 

SoonerJBD

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Because at some point adults need to step in and say enough is enough.

Where does it stop?

I find it interesting that your stance is that you want these changes so your school can refrain from “alienating” the black athlete and thus have a successful football team.

Seems pretty racist new account, low post guy.
I want to change racist things because they are racist. I don’t need to be convinced. I’m telling you that even if you don’t believe it is racist, you should still want it changed so your team can be competitive. And maybe I’m overestimating how much you all want Texas to win. If you value an entire roster of players standing for the Eyes of Texas more than you do winning, by all means, you should push for a coach who will force his players to do that. What I’m saying is you probably can’t have both.
 

Seminole1981

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I want to change racist things because they are racist. I don’t need to be convinced. I’m telling you that even if you don’t believe it is racist, you should still want it changed so your team can be competitive. And maybe I’m overestimating how much you all want Texas to win. If you value an entire roster of players standing for the Eyes of Texas more than you do winning, by all means, you should push for a coach who will force his players to do that. What I’m saying is you probably can’t have both.
You change something even if it is untrue so you can win..??? I understand the scenario you outline in relation to the song... You miss the boat entirely as it relates to Menchu's formulation of critical race theory which was an absolute lie and also as it relates to what Cullors, Tometi and Garza actually stand for and seek with their blm bullshit... (and lets be clear these two dynamics are absolutely a huge part of this in fact they constitute a significant majority of this)... And that is what it is.. bullshit...!!

When you view critical race theory and its warped derivatives that are championed by Garza, Tometi and Cullors and look at these ideas in relation to Gods word you see that what Mechu and those behind blm want is a world where their lies are now seen as the new gospels... And these bullshit artist do not offer salvation but rather subjugation and it is incumbent on any sane person to stand up and refuse to allow this insanity to continue...

I am not over stating this.. Lies are being said to constitute truth and we are supposed to abandon, decency, common sense and in fact our true lives and align ourselves to this pathetic lie.. Don't think so... Not today... Not tomorrow and not ever and anyone that has a problem with that... well to bad... Life is to precious to yield it to some fools lie...!!
 

SoonerJBD

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You change something even if it is untrue so you can win..??? I understand the scenario you outline in relation to the song... You miss the boat entirely as it relates to Menchu's formulation of critical race theory which was an absolute lie and also as it relates to what Cullors, Tometi and Garza actually stand for and seek with their blm bullshit... (and lets be clear these two dynamics are absolutely a huge part of this in fact they constitute a significant majority of this)... And that is what it is.. bullshit...!!

When you view critical race theory and its warped derivatives that are championed by Garza, Tometi and Cullors and look at these ideas in relation to Gods word you see that what Mechu and those behind blm want is a world where their lies are now seen as the new gospels... And these bullshit artist do not offer salvation but rather subjugation and it is incumbent on any sane person to stand up and refuse to allow this insanity to continue...

I am not over stating this.. Lies are being said to constitute truth and we are supposed to abandon, decency, common sense and in fact our true lives and align ourselves to this pathetic lie.. Don't think so... Not today... Not tomorrow and not ever and anyone that has a problem with that... well to bad... Life is to precious to yield it to some fools lie...!!
Those certainly are some words.

I’m not getting into the specifics of sociological theory, and I’m not going to have a debate on race. I think a lot of traditions are bad and need to change. I think OU should change its mascot because it represents the theft of land from indigenous people. Whether that influences anyone to play at OU or not is completely secondary. But I do want minority populations to feel welcome on campus. If Black people have a problem with the racist origins of a fight song, you should change it because it makes them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. If that isn’t enough to persuade you, I’m saying you might also be motivated by the desire to win. Regardless of whether you think it is racist or not, Black athletes do. So you can change it, or you can send a message that they aren’t welcome and should go play elsewhere. That’s just reality,
 

Seminole1981

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Those certainly are some words.

I’m not getting into the specifics of sociological theory, and I’m not going to have a debate on race. I think a lot of traditions are bad and need to change. I think OU should change its mascot because it represents the theft of land from indigenous people. Whether that influences anyone to play at OU or not is completely secondary. But I do want minority populations to feel welcome on campus. If Black people have a problem with the racist origins of a fight song, you should change it because it makes them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. If that isn’t enough to persuade you, I’m saying you might also be motivated by the desire to win. Regardless of whether you think it is racist or not, Black athletes do. So you can change it, or you can send a message that they aren’t welcome and should go play elsewhere. That’s just reality,
I understand what you are saying.. The point I am making is that the truth in all this matters and truth exist independently of thought... perception in many instances does not equal reality... Both you and I at different times in our lives have been wrong... Hopefully each of us has either sought out the truth in these situations or perhaps by chance stumbled upon it... Once we see that we were in fact wrong then it becomes our obligation as men to align ourselves to that truth to the best of our ability which at certain points in time may not be all that good... But hopefully we keep trying and growing and becoming better men because we refused to remain aligned to a lie... How can we say we care about these young men if we say we yield to them in areas that we know without question are lies...
 

SoonerJBD

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I understand what you are saying.. The point I am making is that the truth in all this matters and truth exist independently of thought... perception in many instances does not equal reality... Both you and I at different times in our lives have been wrong... Hopefully each of us has either sought out the truth in these situations or perhaps by chance stumbled upon it... Once we see that we were in fact wrong then it becomes our obligation as men to align ourselves to that truth to the best of our ability which at certain points in time may not be all that good... But hopefully we keep trying and growing and becoming better men because we refused to remain aligned to a lie... How can we say we care about these young men if we say we yield to them in areas that we know without question are lies...
Well I don’t think we agree on whether this is based on lies. I am not going to argue the issue. I think the kids are right. If you think they are wrong, you might have to make a choice between staying competitive or keeping traditions that you think are totally fine but they think are racist.
 

Rotarran9116

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I think the kids are right. If you think they are wrong, you might have to make a choice between staying competitive or keeping traditions that you think are totally fine but they think are racist.
The "kids" didnt think it was racist at all until Moore and Gordon told them it was. Moore and Gordon have been at the forefront of "football is too big" for years, and when toppling it externally failed they moved internally, and its worked with a weak head coach.

The song is "racist", but they dont bat an eye at wearing Nike clothing made by slaves. They have no issues with the rampant crime in their hometowns. They love things like the NBA which has a lockstep relationship with one of the most oppressive regimes of our history. Think like I tell you to think not whats reality has destroyed this team.

It is very likely someone in your family once owned a slave. That doesnt make you racist. Your schools mascot is based on theft. That doesnt make you a thief. Wanting something to be true does not make it true. Texas is Berkeley east, probably the least racist institution there is. Texas has bent over backwards to the detriment of its legacy families to let in minorities. The narrative Moore and Gordon push that these kids locked into doesnt exist in reality. Some of us have heard snippets of Moores lectures and they are some of the most foolish, racist things Ive ever heard.

If Sooner players suddenly decided one day they wanted to wipe away all your traditions because they felt Indians got a raw deal your folks would never stand for it. If you found a professor was pushing it Im quite sure OU administration would swifty deal with it.

This social justice bs was a topic at every FBS school. Only one administration and athletic department has failed to handle it, and its gotten to a point where its out of control and cant be saved by Tom Herman.
 

2300 Nueces

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I want to change racist things because they are racist. I don’t need to be convinced. I’m telling you that even if you don’t believe it is racist, you should still want it changed so your team can be competitive. And maybe I’m overestimating how much you all want Texas to win. If you value an entire roster of players standing for the Eyes of Texas more than you do winning, by all means, you should push for a coach who will force his players to do that. What I’m saying is you probably can’t have both.
You want to change racist songs? How about we start with that crap otherwise known as mumble rap. Ghetto rap is played in the locker room, at practice, at the dorms, and at the stadium. Ghetto rap is violent, racist, misogynistic, anti police, and anti gay shit. I will only laugh, spit in your eye, and call you a hypocrite until that shit is purged. It's a blight upon this country and I'm all for removing those who create and listen to that crap permanently from our country.

Fine. Drop the Eyes of Texas but i ****ing swear that if I hear any of that cat moaning wrap shit at a game, I'm going to go postal.

Now runalong sooner and rape some indians. Now that's real history.

Let's get this topic back to a coaching search. Mr. Land Thief needs to exit this thread.
 
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JoeAg

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I understand that some things that are construed as racist by certain people will be lost but my God at some point universities will be stripped of anything and everything that makes them unique. That is one of the great things about college sports and allegiances to universities. I just think we are on a slippery slope and it doesn't necessarily just apply to sports. This has to stop somewhere or these institutions will all just become unrecognizable beauracratic blobs with no history or character. Sorry, but if having a good football team means sacrificing everything a university holds dear, count me out. Sorry to ramble.
 

KChorn11

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And for decades no one cried foul about the Confederate battle flag because racism dominated, and Black people were scared to complain. Things change. You adapt or you die. I fully expect OU is going to have to change its mascot in the next decade. I don’t care. Again, it does not matter what I think or what you think. If Black athletes think it is racist, they are not going to feel comfortable with being forced to participate in it.
That’s actually not true. The confederate flag has been an issue that’s been talked about for a long time. Just picked up steam over the last 4-5 years. If you know the history about when and why it reappeared in the south there is little doubt that it was for racist reasons.
 

weevilcatch

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Couldn't cut it in the Mexican Leagues
That’s actually not true. The confederate flag has been an issue that’s been talked about for a long time. Just picked up steam over the last 4-5 years. If you know the history about when and why it reappeared in the south there is little doubt that it was for racist reasons.
And it is a shame too, because it is a cool freaking flag.

Idiots ruin too many things that are really neat.
 

Seminole1981

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Well I don’t think we agree on whether this is based on lies. I am not going to argue the issue. I think the kids are right. If you think they are wrong, you might have to make a choice between staying competitive or keeping traditions that you think are totally fine but they think are racist.
I said that the majority of the elements guiding this choice as it relates to the role that critical race theory and its absurd derivatives have played in the players positions plays a far more prominent role than you are willing to admit... And as their positions are guiding largely by the lies of critical race theory and those that champion it I do disagree with you... And you can never win when you abandon the truth...
 
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FrankS1985

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I want to change racist things because they are racist. I don’t need to be convinced. I’m telling you that even if you don’t believe it is racist, you should still want it changed so your team can be competitive. And maybe I’m overestimating how much you all want Texas to win. If you value an entire roster of players standing for the Eyes of Texas more than you do winning, by all means, you should push for a coach who will force his players to do that. What I’m saying is you probably can’t have both.
I thought the song was done in July. What I am pissed about is the no decision. CDC and Herman just letting it slide like it might go away. First, it was, oh they played it before we were ready. Now, it is some are uncomfortable staying, so we leave Sam out there by himself to have Sooners chant "Sam sucks d&*^%" at him as he leaves the tunnel.
Trying to have it both ways is killing the team and the fans. Grow some balls and make a decision!
 
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JDCPAgolferHorn

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Aug 30, 2020
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You want to change racist songs? How about we start with that crap otherwise known as mumble rap. Ghetto rap is played in the locker room, at practice, at the dorms, and at the stadium. Ghetto rap is violent, racist, misogynistic, anti police, and anti gay shit. I will only laugh, spit in your eye, and call you a hypocrite until that shit is purged. It's a blight upon this country and I'm all for removing those who create and listen to that crap permanently from our country.

Fine. Drop the Eyes of Texas but i ****ing swear that if I hear any of that cat moaning wrap shit at a game, I'm going to go postal.

Now runalong sooner and rape some indians. Now that's real history.

Let's get this topic back to a coaching search. Mr. Land Thief needs to exit this thread.
Exhibit #1 - look up the lyrics of WAP by Cardi B. Yet, this singer is given an audience by leaders in our political institutions. Zero redeeming value in that song. Yet, those same young adults that listen to this song and haven’t accomplished a damn thing in life are making a demand of the school. It’s our fault for even listening to such demand.
 

DHHorn

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Dec 10, 2014
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Your school song was performed at minstrel shows as an homage to a confederate mantra to the tune of a song created by ultra wealthy, white 19th Century Princeton students to make fun of black railroad workers. Whether you see it as racist is totally irrelevant at this point. If Black athletes see it as racist, you either drop it or accept that you are alienating them and will miss out on recruits because of it. I personally hope you keep the song and hire some crazy coach who tries to force all his players to stand for it. Because that will cost you even more good players.

The song as it is played today is not racist and is not meant to be racist. The students are wrong, and they ruined a great tradition. The sad thing is that some of them will probably transfer or leave before earning their degree. So now you have students that created this big mess and will leave because they don't like the reaction. If the University was that important to them you would think they would have more pride in it. Right now they are not doing themselves any favors for their cause.
 
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weevilcatch

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Jan 11, 2003
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Couldn't cut it in the Mexican Leagues
Exhibit #1 - look up the lyrics of WAP by Cardi B. Yet, this singer is given an audience by leaders in our political institutions. Zero redeeming value in that song. Yet, those same young adults that listen to this song and haven’t accomplished a damn thing in life are making a demand of the school. It’s our fault for even listening to such demand.
The players had some very unique thoughts and good ideas. The attacking of The Eyes is incredibly short sighted and ludicrous however.

Renaming the stadium, fine. The Jamail family was down. Putting up more memorials to honor past AA on campus...terrific!

But as I stated back in the summer, change is sometimes good and necessary. However, adults need to be steadfast in their principles. Changing for the sake of change is a dangerous proposition. It only leads to nonsensical and petty responses which will further the divide between logic/reason and emotion/anger. Not good.
 
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JDCPAgolferHorn

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The players had some very unique thoughts and good ideas. The attacking of The Eyes is incredibly short sighted and ludicrous however.

Renaming the stadium, fine. The Jamail family was down. Putting up more memorials to honor past AA on campus...terrific!

But as I stated back in the summer, change is sometimes good and necessary. However, adults need to be steadfast in their principles. Changing for the sake of change is a dangerous proposition. It only leads to nonsensical and petty responses which will further the divide between logic/reason and emotion/anger. Not good.
I'm absolutely of the viewpoint that foundational principles must be adhered to. But, I also agree that life is not static and officially recognizing certain events or renaming buildings/fields is sometimes appropriate. E.g., renaming the field as you point out.
My point above came more from the standpoint of posture and approach of the party making the request. If my college-aged kid (whose college education I fund) came to me with a "demand", I certainly know what my response would be. If the kid came to me with a request to discuss some things, my response would be entirely different.
 

clob94

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Aug 25, 2014
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Those certainly are some words.

I’m not getting into the specifics of sociological theory, and I’m not going to have a debate on race. I think a lot of traditions are bad and need to change. I think OU should change its mascot because it represents the theft of land from indigenous people. Whether that influences anyone to play at OU or not is completely secondary. But I do want minority populations to feel welcome on campus. If Black people have a problem with the racist origins of a fight song, you should change it because it makes them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. If that isn’t enough to persuade you, I’m saying you might also be motivated by the desire to win. Regardless of whether you think it is racist or not, Black athletes do. So you can change it, or you can send a message that they aren’t welcome and should go play elsewhere. That’s just reality,
You want OU to stop being a racist university?

Ok cool.

Give it all back. That's the only way you can erase your racism against native Americans. You stole their land. All of it. So give it allllllll back and give back the 1.78 billion in endowment because much of that came from oil money-- and if you didn't own the land, you didn't own the oil.

Give it all back and then we can begin to have a conversation about "righting" racism in the University systems.

I eagerly await your response. No, like seriously. I can't wait.
 

weevilcatch

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Jan 11, 2003
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Couldn't cut it in the Mexican Leagues
I'm absolutely of the viewpoint that foundational principles must be adhered to. But, I also agree that life is not static and officially recognizing certain events or renaming buildings/fields is sometimes appropriate. E.g., renaming the field as you point out.
My point above came more from the standpoint of posture and approach of the party making the request. If my college-aged kid (whose college education I fund) came to me with a "demand", I certainly know what my response would be. If the kid came to me with a request to discuss some things, my response would be entirely different.
Athletes have been fooled into thinking they are free of consequence and have ALL the power. Well, they don't. Eye balls have the power. Money and how it is spent has the power. When people stop watching, I doubt they will understand. They will just resort to calling everyone a "karen" or "bigot." Welp, as our newly signed up sooner friend has stated, you have to change if you want something. So I guess we'll see how it works out. I'm probably done with NBA and NFL, not because of politics but because I don't want to sit there for 4 hours on a weekend while watching an hour and a half of commercials. Many folks are done because of politics. If the players don't like it, tough shit, they have all the power right?

As far as what I underlined above JD, 100% spot on. When players came in with a "demand" letter and said do this or we quit, they should've been shown the door. However, if they came in with some concerns and wanted to discuss possible changes, by all means have those conversations. As clob stated, all this crap was not handled internally and now it has spread like forest fire. Players were assumingly encouraged to take to social media with their "demand or I quit" letter. Not good. It'll be a while before it is put out.
 
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westx

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Dec 6, 2009
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The players had some very unique thoughts and good ideas. The attacking of The Eyes is incredibly short sighted and ludicrous however.

Renaming the stadium, fine. The Jamail family was down. Putting up more memorials to honor past AA on campus...terrific!

But as I stated back in the summer, change is sometimes good and necessary. However, adults need to be steadfast in their principles. Changing for the sake of change is a dangerous proposition. It only leads to nonsensical and petty responses which will further the divide between logic/reason and emotion/anger. Not good.
I agree, weevil. In a normal world where we are always negotiating something, I would think that the players would have gotten together to celebrate and have pride in the lengths the university went to LISTEN AND ACT. I would also think that it would have reinforced in their minds a sense of pride because they made the right decision to come to the right university. Texas actually backs up there end of the bargain-These were NOT small little requests that were granted. A degree of gratitude is in order where a normal person would express from the rooftops or social media something in the neighborhood of "We are so proud of our university. We asked and they delivered. Texas showed us their commitment to us and now we are loyal forever". (Well, something along those lines)
 

soonersoldier

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Jul 22, 2001
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You want OU to stop being a racist university?

Ok cool.

Give it all back. That's the only way you can erase your racism against native Americans. You stole their land. All of it. So give it allllllll back and give back the 1.78 billion in endowment because much of that came from oil money-- and if you didn't own the land, you didn't own the oil.

Give it all back and then we can begin to have a conversation about "righting" racism in the University systems.

I eagerly await your response. No, like seriously. I can't wait.
Apple meet orange. I get what you are saying, but your argument is different than what is happening with Texas (and other colleges' football players). Kind of sounds like you are saying look over here, don't worry about that in the corner, the problem is over here.

The issue at hand, for Texas football, is the current and likely prospective football players have a problem with Texas's history...right or wrong.

The bigger problem, or question is, what is the adminstration and athletic department going to do about it to appease the players and BMD's - or - do they simply make the donors happy?

It is easy to say screw the players and only recruit players that want what the University (i.e. BMD's) want...but is that gonna work in today's times? Do you side with the players, even against what the Administration thinks is morally right?

Where the money meets the the road is the answer. With all that being said, the answer is easy: hire a good f#$king football coach that can run an institution like the Texas football program. Wins relieves pressure, keeps the monies flowing, and players relax as well as focus on the job at hand (winning)...good luck.
 

2300 Nueces

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Sep 27, 2015
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The distribution model for television programming is finished. It is over. Everything is accessible on the net for free. That is a large chunk of cash being wasted. What am I saying exactly? I am saying that large network contracts are worthless. When ESPN buys exclusive rights to SEC sports, they are paying the SEC to distribute SEC content. ESPN charges a pretty penny for viewers to buy their content. But there is a problem, technology has rendered their middleman scheme worthless. I can watch anything for free online. They have no way to stop this and ESPN is bleeding out. The same will happen to FOX or anyone that believes they can be gate keepers for content. The conferences are getting kicked in the balls. The schools are getting kicked in the balls. And you guessed it, the players are going to get kicked in the balls.... all things university, pro, whatever are going to take a sizeable pay cut.

How does this relate to the above conversation? The pie is shrinking and player protests are driving away paying customers. The number of leeches is growing. The players are killing the sports business model. The NBA is in serious trouble. The other leagues are following suit. NCAA football is not immune.

The Universtiy of Texas is in serious trouble financially. The athletic department is broke. The athletic department is now in the hands of boosters. The boosters will be calling the shots for the foreseeable future or the athletic department will wither on the vine. The players are biting the hand that feeds them. If UT Austin loses its fanbase, the whole B12 goes down. While OU is winning and doing well now, it's really only a matter of time til they have the same issues. It's about time that businessmen take the wheel. The idiot administrators at UT Austin are worthless and have been fired.

UT Austin lost me... I'm just an unimportant alum but I have been telling many others how to boycott UT Austin by pirating their content and the word is spreading. It's a forest fire indeed.

Think I'm full of crap? Take a peek at sportsbay.org. This is what the future is going to look like but it will be legal. The only profit will be advertising. The only thing I can't find on there is NCAA women's volleyball. I'm sure it's next to be added.
 
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