OT: HOF vote Jeff Bagwell

[dj701919]

and played in an era that wasn't nearly as hitter friendly. won a couple mvp's (which biggio never sniffed). was more-or-less the face of the sport for a 3-5 year run, whereas biggio could go into the mall and go unnoticed

"Due to the relatively high elevation of the Atlanta area (situated at the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains), Fulton County Stadium boasted the highest elevation in baseball when it opened, at 1,050 feet (320 m) above sea level. It retained this distinction until the Colorado Rockies were born in 1993. The high elevation made it favorable to home run hitters, resulting in the nickname "The Launching Pad."

"Throughout its history, the Astrodome was known as a pitcher's park. The power alleys were never shorter than 370 feet (113 m) from the plate; on at least two occasions they were as far as 390 feet (119 m). Over time, it gave up fewer home runs than any other park in the National League.[6] The Astrodome's reputation as a pitcher's park continued even in the mid-1980s, when the fences were moved in closer than the Metrodome, which was long reckoned as a hitter's park."

 

[oldhorn2]

Dale Murphey was the face of the sport?...Either you lived in ATL or only watched the Super Station.

 

[oldhorn2]

Dale Murphey did not make the all decade team of the 1980's....nor did he make the top 20 best player list

 

[weevilcatch]

The ridiculousness of the anti-Biggio arguments are incredible...

 

[DrinkToIt]

DC3.Oppg: "I did not have sex with that woman... Read my lips, no new taxes!"

He just keeps spouting nonsense while completely ignoring every single statistical fact listed that shows Biggio among the best of all time.

Yes, we will just have to disagree... right. You just keep saying whatever you want. Its not gonna change the facts, which are overwhelming in Biggios favor.

 

[crazypatriotguy]

and played in an era that wasn't nearly as hitter friendly. won a couple mvp's (which biggio never sniffed). was more-or-less the face of the sport for a 3-5 year run, whereas biggio could go into the mall and go unnoticed

When John Stockton was with the 92 Dream Team in Barcelona, he recorded himself walking around with his family completely unnoticed. He even talked to people about the team, a woman bragged about having met Barkley, yet still didn't catch on to who he was.

Who cares that he has over 3700 more assists than the 2nd place player in NBA history. The true measure of sports greatness is how noticed you are in a public place.

 

[DC3.0ppg]

he was in barcelona. he couldn't do that in salt lake city. or chicago. or tampa.

there are three types of lies, per mark twain: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

biggio managed to stick around. he also managed to play in a era when the truly great players are generally all accused of breaking rules that may or may not have even existed at the time they "broke" them. i've heard halls of fame described as "can you tell the story of ______ without mentioning this person?" and you most definitely can tell the story of baseball without biggio. maybe not the astros, which is why they have team halls of fame.

 

[oldschoolcat]

DC3, I guess you and Bill Conlin can have a beer and start your own HOF's.....

 

[crazypatriotguy]

he was in barcelona. he couldn't do that in salt lake city. or chicago. or tampa.

there are three types of lies, per mark twain: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

biggio managed to stick around. he also managed to play in a era when the truly great players are generally all accused of breaking rules that may or may not have even existed at the time they "broke" them. i've heard halls of fame described as "can you tell the story of ______ without mentioning this person?" and you most definitely can tell the story of baseball without biggio. maybe not the astros, which is why they have team halls of fame.

You must not have watched the documentary on the Dream Team. They were the Beatles over there. And one woman Stockton was talking to (an American) was wearing a Dream Team shirt with all the players on it, and she had no idea she was talking to John. He even asked her if she had met more players besides Barkley, she said no, and Stockton's son pointed to his dad on the shirt before she finally clued in.

And I'm confused. Earlier you said Bagwell was great. Yet you've criticised Biggio for the era he played in and bad teams he was a part of. Explain.

 

[oldhorn2]

considering the fact that you think Murphey should be in the Hall and Biggio should not tells me all I need to know ..........no wonder you dont believe in statistics.

 

[weevilcatch]

When John Stockton was with the 92 Dream Team in Barcelona, he recorded himself walking around with his family completely unnoticed. He even talked to people about the team, a woman bragged about having met Barkley, yet still didn't catch on to who he was.

Who cares that he has over 3700 more assists than the 2nd place player in NBA history. The true measure of sports greatness is how noticed you are in a public place.

Exactly! Yao Ming, obviously the 2nd best NBA player of All-time!

 

[weevilcatch]

he was in barcelona. he couldn't do that in salt lake city. or chicago. or tampa.

there are three types of lies, per mark twain: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

biggio managed to stick around. he also managed to play in a era when the truly great players are generally all accused of breaking rules that may or may not have even existed at the time they "broke" them. i've heard halls of fame described as "can you tell the story of ______ without mentioning this person?" and you most definitely can tell the story of baseball without biggio. maybe not the astros, which is why they have team halls of fame.

There are two types of baseball people...those that know what they're talking about and then...you.

 

[weevilcatch]

he was in barcelona. he couldn't do that in salt lake city. or chicago. or tampa.

there are three types of lies, per mark twain: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

biggio managed to stick around. he also managed to play in a era when the truly great players are generally all accused of breaking rules that may or may not have even existed at the time they "broke" them. i've heard halls of fame described as "can you tell the story of ______ without mentioning this person?" and you most definitely can tell the story of baseball without biggio. maybe not the astros, which is why they have team halls of fame.

This guy came up as a Catcher, was an all-star at the position then moved to 2nd base and won multiple GGs and SS awards. Also played 5 seasons as a CF at the end of his career...you know that position teams put their worst defensive player...

You'd have to be a casual fan to NOT know who that was about...

You're ignorance is frustrating and embarrassing.

 

[DrinkToIt]

Can the story of baseball be told without ________ player... if yes then they aren't a HOFer....

If that is the case, then probably half the players in the hall shouldnt be in there.

 

[crazypatriotguy]

Can the story of baseball be told without ________ player... if yes then they aren't a HOFer....

If that is the case, then probably half the players in the hall shouldnt be in there.

Exactly.

 

[DC3.0ppg]

i wouldn't disagree with that.

 

[ellissooner]

So much truth. I can't even believe it was a debate for anyone.

Mike Mussina deserves to be in as well, but there are people that don't think so.

Mike Mussina would be very deserving. I always wish the Rangers could've acquired him.

 

[weevilcatch]

Mike Mussina would be very deserving. I always wish the Rangers could've acquired him.

5x All-Star
7 Gold Gloves
24th in WAR all time for pitchers (just above Bob Gibson)
270 Wins (more than Jim Palmer and Bob Feller)
19th all time in K's (more than Cy Young and Tom Glavine)
Same ERA+ as Juan Marichal, better than Bob Feller, Eddie Plank and Don Drysdale

Did all of this in the toughest division in baseball at the time. It would be ignorant to think he didn't belong. Just because he isn't Greg Maddux, Pedro or Randy Johnson doesn't mean he isn't a HOFer

 

[ellissooner]

5x All-Star
7 Gold Gloves
24th in WAR all time for pitchers (just above Bob Gibson)
270 Wins (more than Jim Palmer and Bob Feller)
19th all time in K's (more than Cy Young and Tom Glavine)
Same ERA+ as Juan Marichal, better than Bob Feller, Eddie Plank and Don Drysdale

Did all of this in the toughest division in baseball at the time. It would be ignorant to think he didn't belong. Just because he isn't Greg Maddux, Pedro or Randy Johnson doesn't mean he isn't a HOFer

Plus he pitched in a hitter's park at Baltimore. If I'm not mistaken Rangers passed over him for Dan Smith LHP.