The "baked the cake" comments....

[TexasRoc]

Strong's coaching was suspect at Texas, but he most definitely laid the foundation. I don't get why anyone is upset with his comments. He was fired for not winning 7 or 8 games this year, because the talent was there for it, just like it will be there for Herman to win 10 games next season. If Strong was expected to win 7 or 8 games, then 10 is most definitely attainable next season. If not, then why was Herman hired, and Strong fired. I don't want to hear about a new offense, or a new defense. Several other coaches are winning with much less talent, so if he is a good coach, he'll get it done. The talent is there on both sides of the ball.

QB: Shane, Sam
RB: Warren, Porter, Johnson, Toneil
WR: Collins, Devin, Burt, Armanti, Leonard
OL: Williams, Vahe, Hudson, Okafur, Shackleford, Delance, Hodges, Anderson, McMillon, Imade, Major, Urquidez
TE: Blake Whitely

DL: Elliot, Giles, Roach, Poona, Nelson, Charles, Fitzgerald, Southhall, Daniels, Christmas
LB: Malik, Wheeler, Fowler, McCulloch, Hager, Hughes, Freeman, Townsend, Boyd
DB: Boyd, Hill, Jones, Elliot, Locke, Davis (should move to safety), Cuffee, Brown

What position is lacking for talent, except for TE? Coaches making a lot less, and playing with less talent, are winning. Most of those players were recruited by the best teams in the country, so the talent is there, and they are old enough at this point. It's no longer about Strong, or what anyone thought about the job he did, or what anyone expected or required of him; so I don't care about any of that, as it has no impact on the now. I expect Herman to win 9 or 10 games in his first year.

 

[speedstrength]

Don't have an elite pass rusher. DT is young but talented. The best thing is no more GDDH in the defensive backfield. I don't know if we have a 10 win team but if we can play mistake free football then it is most definitely an 8-9 win team

 

[4MNChampsHorn]

I'm looking for 7-8 wins in his first year. That will be a 16% - 25% improvement from 2016 (in overall season record). 10 wins (in 2017) would be a 41% improvement from 2016. That would truly prove that Herman is amazing and Strong sucks even more.

 

[TexasRoc]

With Hager, Roach, and Fowler, the pass rush should be decent enough...like I said before, several teams are winning with a lot less talent, so it doesn't have to be elite, to win 10 games. Look at the 10 win teams from last season. Those guys like Elliot, Christmas, Southall, and Daniles will be sophomores; that's old enough, to go along with Poona and Nelson. How many teams in the Big 12 will have more talent on the DL?

 

[speedstrength]

With Hager, Roach, and Fowler, the pass rush should be decent enough...like I said before, several teams are winning with a lot less talent, so it doesn't have to be elite, to win 10 games. Look at the 10 win teams from last season. Those guys like Elliot, Christmas, Southall, and Daniles will be sophomores; that's old enough, to go along with Poona and Nelson. How many teams in the Big 12 will have more talent on the DL?

Who is going to require a double team? Orlando bases out of a true 3-4. The Nose is a true 0 and the "ends" are playing a 4i technique. Most of the time he has one of the OLBs near the line of scrimmage in a stand up 5 or 9 technique. I don't know what the depth chart is going to look like but unless something changes most offensive lines can handle those guys 1 on 1 which means you have to bring 5.

 

[Bwilk55]

Don't have an elite pass rusher. DT is young but talented. The best thing is no more GDDH in the defensive backfield. I don't know if we have a 10 win team but if we can play mistake free football then it is most definitely an 8-9 win team

5th in the nation in sacks. I couldn't find individual sack numbers but I'd imagine most of them are coming back. The talent is there to get pressure.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

You just don't go from a NC team to nothing like Mack did, somethings wrong if you do.

Hook'em

Actually it is a very normal process. See Phil Fulmer, see Lloyd Carr, See John Cooper.

Every one of those guys had very good programs and everyone of them won national championships and then everyone of them faded just like Mack did.

You could also say the same thing about Bob Stoops but he keeps winning conference championships and has never had a truly bad season.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Mack Brown had 3 major problems which lead to his downfall.

1. He neither recruited or developed dominate offensive linemen. Maybe we did get great talent, hard to tell because we never developed them. The last great linemen we developed were part of the 2005 championship team.

2. Not a single great QB after Major left. We were all fooled by Gilbert, not just Mack, but it wasn't our job it was Mack's. I don't know what Mack did or didn't do but we passed on so much QB talent, maybe he did get lucky with Vince and Colt, but that luck ran out.

3. Switching from a spread offense to a power rushing offense and then forgetting to tell our offensive line. That is because we recruited offensive linemen for one type of offense and it wasn't for power running. Mack had a football shoved up his ass by Bama and wanted to land Malcolm Brown so he made promises to Brown that in truth he couldn't keep. That lead to the really bad 2010 season.

When it comes down to it, in the end Mack was much more concerned about salvaging his legacy than winning football games. He expect to win the championship in 2009 and ride off into the sunset, but it didn't happen and from that point forward he was sticking around trying to get that one last good season in, but it never happened. Finally, Texas pulled the plug, just like it did with Fred Akers.

 

[Bwilk55]

2. Not a single great QB after Major left. We were all fooled by Gilbert, not just Mack, but it wasn't our job it was Mack's. I don't know what Mack did or didn't do but we passed on so much QB talent, maybe he did get lucky with Vince and Colt, but that luck ran out.

Ummm....What? Lucky with Vince?? VY was the top recruit in the nation. There was nothing lucky there, that was a sure thing that turned out to be a sure thing. He was the definition of "great QB", much more so than Major. Won a BCS bowl game and NC in which he was MVP of both. Should have won a heisman.

Lucky with Colt, maybe, but remember Colt was probably recruited as a backup plan. Jevan Snead came in that same year as the number 2 dual QB in the nation. Mack recruited a highly touted QB and also brought in an underrated one who turned out to be better. That is some legit recruiting right there. (Aside, I was a freshmen with Colt. Saw Jevan in the dorm grocery store right after it was announced he was leaving. He was using up all his credit on gatorade and other snacks. If you don't use it, you lose it). Colt won more games than any other Texas QB, a BCS game, and had a chance at a Natty.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but the two best QBs in Texas history came after Major left.

 

[HornsRuleU]

I am always amazed at how Mack was such a talent finder and then just stopped doing it. He had it all. He could have maybe surpassed DKR if he had kept after it like the first several years he was here....and could win some conf champs! He was his own worst enemy.

Aren't we all?

 

[HornsRuleU]

dominant

That is all.

 

[jsto60]

I have been thinking about Strong and his comments....I baked the cake....then at his press conf he said basically the same thing with the comment.....I laid the foundation for great success....

These statements kind of hit me wrong. It is like he is taking credit for future success....or.....He is saying it is not his fault if there is no success.

Am I taking these statements wrong? I kind of hope I am because I like Strong. But it just seems he can't accept his role in the last 3 years.

Totally agree.

He has a point, in that he puts some ingredients in a bowl. But his cake lost to Kansas. I am not sure he would have ever figured it out and created a cake anyone would pay to eat. In his heart of hearts, he believes he could have and he knows the capability of this roster.

But he needs to move on. He wasn't squeezing out the talent. He was under .500. With nothing but hopes and dreams on the table and that isn't ok in year 3.

 

[oldhorn2]

I have been pretty hard on Mack. I dont appologize for it, but I might need to soften my stance. Mack deserved a better fate. He really had the team to win it all 2 years in a row. He did everything just like he was supposed to.Then unreal bad breaks....call it fate....stepped in and squashed him. No wonder he was broken after that. I still think the 2008 team was better than the 2009 team....a certain interception unexplainably dropped....a crooked vote by a POS coach, and he doesnt even get to play for it. Then 2009 comes and he gets in the game. We are on our way to not just winning, but dominating and the heavy hand of fate again crushes the life right out of him.

Perhaps Mack didnt quit as I had thought, he just didnt have anything left.

 

[swVAHorn]

I have been pretty hard on Mack. I dont appologize for it, but I might need to soften my stance. Mack deserved a better fate. He really had the team to win it all 2 years in a row. He did everything just like he was supposed to.Then unreal bad breaks....call it fate....stepped in and squashed him. No wonder he was broken after that. I still think the 2008 team was better than the 2009 team....a certain interception unexplainably dropped....a crooked vote by a POS coach, and he doesnt even get to play for it. Then 2009 comes and he gets in the game. We are on our way to not just winning, but dominating and the heavy hand of fate again crushes the life right out of him.

Perhaps Mack didnt quit as I had thought, he just didnt have anything left.

Gilbert being a bust and then getting no other QB hurt a lot. Offensive line recruiting was just awful and I can't understand how recruiting took the nosedive it did under Mack Brown. This is what the man was KNOWN for. Maybe he thought he was bigger than the program? Who knows. He had it all and let it slip away. He was forgiven for getting crushed by ou when 99.9% of Texas coaches would not have been forgiven (well at least he kept his job lol) because Texas was SO close every year.

Mack had some bad luck with highly ranked players not panning out for sure. But some of that is on him for changing up what was working. He wanted to change to power when he was whipping everyone with the spread. Hell he would have beaten Bama if Colt did not get hurt with a subpar offensive line. He was his own worst enemy.

 

[speedstrength]

5th in the nation in sacks. I couldn't find individual sack numbers but I'd imagine most of them are coming back. The talent is there to get pressure.

Actually 8th in the Nation in sacks at 41 and 102 in sacks allowed
Did you watch us play? 14 of our 41 sacks came from DL. We got sacks because of all of the exotic blitz packages we ran. We had 8 DB sacks. I have no way of looking this up but I wonder how many of those sacks came when we brought the 5th guy. Just for some prespective FSU lead the nation in sacks. 37.5 out of 47 sacks from the DL, 1 DB sack. Clemson was number 2nd. 32.5 out of 46 sacks from the DL, 2 DB sacks. Clemson was 9th in total D, FSU was 29th, we were 94th. We need guys on the DL who can command double teams and we need to be able to get pressure with the guys playing on the line. Hagar and Fowler may end up being those guys but right now I am not counting on anything.

 

[jsto60]

Gilbert being a bust and then getting no other QB hurt a lot. Offensive line recruiting was just awful and I can't understand how recruiting took the nosedive it did under Mack Brown. This is what the man was KNOWN for. Maybe he thought he was bigger than the program? Who knows. He had it all and let it slip away. He was forgiven for getting crushed by ou when 99.9% of Texas coaches would not have been forgiven (well at least he kept his job lol) because Texas was SO close every year.

Mack had some bad luck with highly ranked players not panning out for sure. But some of that is on him for changing up what was working. He wanted to change to power when he was whipping everyone with the spread. Hell he would have beaten Bama if Colt did not get hurt with a subpar offensive line. He was his own worst enemy.

Nailed it. Mack was sore about the Bama loss and thought he'd copy their power O. But we didn't have the players to do it. Not to mention much of the talent in HS here in the state runs spread O's. When he realized that, he scrapped it and went back to spread. But with inferior staff that he was playing whackamole with to push the blame for mounting losses on others.


All he needed to do was get in a talented and forward thinking new offensive mind to reinvigorate the O. That and one QB behind GG that could have stepped in to play when he didn't pan out.

 

[TexasRoc]

Who is going to require a double team? Orlando bases out of a true 3-4. The Nose is a true 0 and the "ends" are playing a 4i technique. Most of the time he has one of the OLBs near the line of scrimmage in a stand up 5 or 9 technique. I don't know what the depth chart is going to look like but unless something changes most offensive lines can handle those guys 1 on 1 which means you have to bring 5.

We don't need an elite pass rush to win 9 or 10 games. Who in the Big 12 will have a better front seven than Texas? Who in the Big 12 has more talent than Texas? OU is the only one in that conversation. We will only play two teams that can match us in talent next season, and that's USC and OU.

I listed our talent, I'm still waiting on someone to tell me who in the Big 12 has more talent. The talent is there to win 9 or 10 games.

 

[speedstrength]

Front seven I think TCU and OK state might be better although most teams in this league base out of some kind of nickle package. If you can pressure the QB with 4 then you can do lots of things in coverage. A zone coverage will hold up 3 maybe 4 seconds at the most. If you can get to the QB in that time then good things will happen. Orlando is going to find out how tough it is to play defense in this league.

 

[TexasRoc]

Front seven I think TCU and OK state might be better although most teams in this league base out of some kind of nickle package. If you can pressure the QB with 4 then you can do lots of things in coverage. A zone coverage will hold up 3 maybe 4 seconds at the most. If you can get to the QB in that time then good things will happen. Orlando is going to find out how tough it is to play defense in this league.

I doubt either of those teams will have a better front 7. But even if that were true, it still doesn't change my original point...we have the overall talent to win 9 or 10 games.

There are no great teams in the Big 12. There are only two teams on our schedule that can match us in talent. Do you disagree?

 

[speedstrength]

We have a lot of highly ranked guys that haven't produced. Hagar made all Big 12 second team. He could be a Clay Matthews type talent. Malik has all kinds of potential. Roach showed some potential. Freeman started to come along at the end but I don't know if outside of Malik and Hagar if we are that much better in the front 7 than TCU and OK State. So I think USC and OU are probably better than us and we are about as good as TCU and OK State. I really need to hear about how guys develop in the spring before I can really make any definitive decisions.

 

[homeNaway]

It will be interesting to see what Tom Herman does with the Texas football program. We will see soon enough. That is all that matters at this point.

 

[swVAHorn]

We have a lot of highly ranked guys that haven't produced. Hagar made all Big 12 second team. He could be a Clay Matthews type talent. Malik has all kinds of potential. Roach showed some potential. Freeman started to come along at the end but I don't know if outside of Malik and Hagar if we are that much better in the front 7 than TCU and OK State. So I think USC and OU are probably better than us and we are about as good as TCU and OK State. I really need to hear about how guys develop in the spring before I can really make any definitive decisions.

The spring game will be huge this year. After that we can start our annual how many games will we win thread...lol. I agree with your post speed. I think Roach has a higher ceiling than nearly anyone on the Texas roster. That kid has special written all over him. Freeman is the most underrated player on defense I think. He showed up and played well when he was not hurt or on the sideline. I think he will play a lot this coming year. Malik was kind of out of position it seems to me but maybe they needed him in the middle.

The defensive line is going to be a lot better this year just from the freshmen getting to play....but.....our DE's NEED to get pressure more consistently than they have been.

 

[Pumpedup55]

Mack Brown had 3 major problems which lead to his downfall.

1. He neither recruited or developed dominate offensive linemen. Maybe we did get great talent, hard to tell because we never developed them. The last great linemen we developed were part of the 2005 championship team.

2. Not a single great QB after Major left. We were all fooled by Gilbert, not just Mack, but it wasn't our job it was Mack's. I don't know what Mack did or didn't do but we passed on so much QB talent, maybe he did get lucky with Vince and Colt, but that luck ran out.

3. Switching from a spread offense to a power rushing offense and then forgetting to tell our offensive line. That is because we recruited offensive linemen for one type of offense and it wasn't for power running. Mack had a football shoved up his ass by Bama and wanted to land Malcolm Brown so he made promises to Brown that in truth he couldn't keep. That lead to the really bad 2010 season.

When it comes down to it, in the end Mack was much more concerned about salvaging his legacy than winning football games. He expect to win the championship in 2009 and ride off into the sunset, but it didn't happen and from that point forward he was sticking around trying to get that one last good season in, but it never happened. Finally, Texas pulled the plug, just like it did with Fred Akers.

That would have been foolish. Right after we beat Nebraska again in 2009, Mack got a raise from 3.1 Mil to 5.1 Mil. 2 million more per year. Yeah I think he comes back.
That move was deserved but also Odd because we had a coach -in-waiting.

 

[oldhorn2]

I am going to argue that Colt was not only a great QB, but an "all time great" QB. Also....to say we got lucky with Colt and VY???...VY was the number one blue chip QB in the nation. VY could not be stopped in high school and he could not be stopped in College either as soon as the staff figured out to quit trying to change his throwing motion.

Colt was Colt all along. Yeah....he had to RS behind Vince, but who wouldnt have? After VY left, Mack told the team they would have to find a QB to replace him and they all laughed, They said that had already been decided and it was Colt! I also believe that Colt would have come to Texas as a walkon had he not been offered.Lucky my ass!...Those two were always going to be great., and as much as I liked Major, he couldnt carry either one's Jock Strap.

 

[TXSFRED]

I have to agree with this. I don't think he baked the cake, Tom needs to bake the damn thing and rub it down with icing!

I wish somebody had talked D'onta Foreman into staying and them we might have kicked that cake up the rectum of just about everybody next year. I see his leaving has drawn Running Back Interest, so maybe we still can.

Merry CHRISTmas and a Happy new Year to all here.

 

[TXSFRED]

I am going to argue that Colt was not only a great QB, but an "all time great" QB. Also....to say we got lucky with Colt and VY???...VY was the number one blue chip QB in the nation. VY could not be stopped in high school and he could not be stopped in College either as soon as the staff figured out to quit trying to change his throwing motion.

Colt was Colt all along. Yeah....he had to RS behind Vince, but who wouldnt have? After VY left, Mack told the team they would have to find a QB to replace him and they all laughed, They said that had already been decided and it was Colt! I also believe that Colt would have come to Texas as a walkon had he not been offered.Lucky my ass!...Those two were always going to be great., and as much as I liked Major, he couldnt carry either one's Jock Strap.

I don't think Major has to walk up backwards and avoid the eyes of either. He was cheated out of his Senior year and belongs in that triumvirate.

I wish the NFL had had a Coach that knew how to use VY... and Colt...but they don't seem to. I have heard Coach "Chuckie" tell his silly Brother on National TV that he should give Colt a hug ( COlt had just won the second of two games for the Redskins) and start starting him all the time- and even that idiot didn't give Colt any further starts.

 

[speedstrength]

Either Vince didn't like to study the playbook or he couldn't grasp an NFL Offenses. In the NFL tape is not your friend and once coordinators get a hold of enough tape all your weakness are out there and coordinators figured out how to defend him. He couldn't break though with Buffalo, Green Bay or Cleveland at a time when Kapernick, Newton and Wilson were tearing up teams with the Zone Read.

 

[Herman Hermit]

I have been thinking about Strong and his comments....I baked the cake....then at his press conf he said basically the same thing with the comment.....I laid the foundation for great success....

These statements kind of hit me wrong. It is like he is taking credit for future success....or.....He is saying it is not his fault if there is no success.

Am I taking these statements wrong? I kind of hope I am because I like Strong. But it just seems he can't accept his role in the last 3 years.

I thought it was a totally classless statement. He came in with a chip on his shoulder and went out with it still there. I don't think the talent he left was as good as Mack left before Charlie ran off the offensive line and doomed his first two years. I'm glad he's gone. I may use a couple of my season tickets I've had for about forty years.

 

[oldhorn2]

I thought it was a totally classless statement. He came in with a chip on his shoulder and went out with it still there. I don't think the talent he left was as good as Mack left before Charlie ran off the offensive line and doomed his first two years. I'm glad he's gone. I may use a couple of my season tickets I've had for about forty years.

I find this observation to be totally void of knowlege or truth...i.e....short on facts