Time for UT to make a power play for Herman..

[clob94]

Glad you bring up these points. And btw, I hold our 5mil+ coach to the same standards. At 5mil plus, there really ain't many excuses.

But let's be honest. While Mack was plowing through 10 win season after 10 win season from 2000-09, his biggest hurdle, year in and year out was Bag o' d!cks Bob. There were seasons where injuries, bad coaching- whatever, mired Bag o'd!cks, but because he could point back at a title, getting to PLAY in title games, and beating Texas regularly, OU fans were slow to push him aside. With the playoff loss to Clemson last year, he probably gave himself another two years without any scrutiny.

Let's look at Bag of d!cks original staff..... almost all left to go onto head coaching jobs. Bobby Jack bullsh!t didn't, but pretty much everybody else did. Now, Stoops tries to bring back baby brother and recapture the magic--- but it's gone. Now he won't get head chopped for that because HIS retread has the Stoops name attached to him.

Look, bottom line is when Watson was hired, I literally had another conniption fit after the one I had when Patterson was hired AND the one I had after charlie was hired. Watson couldn't coach a hooker how to spread her legs. Sterling may have saved charlie on offense, but Vance could get him killed on D.

 

[TexExSpur]

If they win the next 2, they'll win 8 or more.

 

[bubba2023]

OSU is critical.

A) Much like Cal they aren't a very good team there will be several better opponents on our schedule so the future looks bleak for a UT team that can't get by OSU.
B) You can't get behind in conference play right out of the gate.

 

[ryan_sublett]

If they win the next 2, they'll win 8 or more.

I'm open they get 10 and we can put this to bed forever

 

[clob94]

I'm open they get 10 and we can put this to bed forever

I'm open for business........

 

[RoboCocks21]

I'm open for business........

Doesn't sound right....haha

 

[clob94]

I'm open they get 10 and we can put this to bed forever

Upon further review---

You said "open" and "10" and "bed" in the same sentence. Just sayin......

 

[ryan_sublett]

Haha my bad. Posting from my phone must of auto corrected. It was supposed to say hoping they get 10 so we can put this to bed.

 

[clob94]

So now you're hoping you get 10" so you can go to bed....

Got it.

 

[_PIIHB_]

Strong is a tremendous recruiter. At UL he was able to collect a lot of talent and coach in a conference where you could create a large talent gap if you could recruit. Now we are seeing his coaching deficiencies when he faces teams week in and week out where he doesn't have the clear advantage.

We hired Strong on the basis that he was an X and O's defensive guru. Coaching up 3 stars to 5 stars. Now the company line has pivoted that he needs more talent. In order for Strong to not field the 5th best team in the big 12 he needs 3-4 recruiting cycles of top 10 classes? Just not buying it.

Strong didn't inherit a Kansas level program. You guys still pointing at Mack need to pull your heads out of the sand. I get that we aren't a playoff team, but we aren't facing any playoff teams either. There is no reason this team shouldn't contend for the big 12 title. I want to see some of this "coaching up" he was hired for.

Exactly.

The narrative changes because people do not want to accept Strong's failures.

Hence why the blame always goes to Mack, players, toughness of schedule, assistant coaches, sweatpants, etc...

Charlie is always the victim

 

[swVAHorn]

He will be the next great coach at Texas IMO



Ok. Let's compare Strong's 4 years at Louisville and Herman's 1st year at Houston.

-Herman won a conference title outright > Charlie never has (tied w/3&4 teams)
-Herman has had a Top 10 team (8) Charlie (13,15)
-Herman went undefeated vs ranked opponents 2-0, Charlie went 2-2 in 4 years
-Both did win NC as coordinator

I will say that Herman 1st year was better then Charlie's 4 years at Louisville.



Strong has shown a lot of game management flaws since his arrival on the 40. Posting the worst defense in the history of the program last year is a major red flag even coming from a "Defensive Guru".


As of right now in their HC (Power5) careers, I will say that Will Muschamp has been a better DC and HC. (Rankings & Wins)

Will Muschamp Defenses last 10 years
2006 Auburn: #23 (DC)
2007 Auburn: #6 (DC)
2008 Texas: #48 (DC)
2009 Texas: #5 (DC)
2010 Texas: #5 (DC)
2011: Florida #9 (HC)
2012: Florida #6 (HC)
2013: Florida #5 (HC)
2014: Florida #4 (HC)
2015: Auburn #85 (DC)

Top 25: 8
Top 10: 7
Top 5: 4
Records as HC in Power 5
30-22 (.576)

Charlie Strong defenses last 10 years
2006 Florida: #19 (Co-DC)
2007 Florida: #30 (Co-DC)
2008 Florida: #20 (DC)
2009 Florida: #6 (DC)
2010 Louisville: #15 (HC)
2011 Louisville: #24 (HC)
2012 Louisville: #26 (HC)
2013 Louisville: #1 (HC)
2014 Texas: #25 (HC)
2015 Texas: #106 (HC)

Top 25: 7
Top 10: 2
Top 5: 1
Records as HC in Power 5
13-15 (.464)


I will say that I do believe that Charlie is a better overall HC over Muschamp (not saying much) because he did win some at Louisville, but it was at a non-power 5 school and weak competition (4 ranked,4 years).



Now the reason OPEE and a lot of others believe that even though it's not always a guarantee that bringing in a new coach will lead us to championships...Herman checks off a lot of boxes.

• Texas Alum
• Texas Recruiting Ties
• Best offensive mind in college football
• Has finished ranked in Top 10
• Major Bowl Win
• 1 of 4 coaches to ever win 13 games in 1st season.

Yes, we are only 3 games into the 3rd season but the only thing that's been consistent is the lack of coaching. Charlie tenure at Texas has been a failure at this point and the stats show he is a subpar coach.

When the competition has gone up from his Louisville days to Texas days...He has been exposed.

Charlie's records vs ranked teams

2010
7-6 record
0 ranked team

2011
7-6 record 1-1
Lost Cincy #25
Beat WV #17

2012
11-2 record 1-0
Beat Florida #9 (Muschamp)

2013
12-1 record 0-1
Lost Central Florida #10

Total record: 37-15
Versus Ranked opponents: 2-2

2014
6-7 record 0-4
Lost UCLA#10
Lost Baylor #7
Lost K. St #18
Lost TCU #3

2015
5-7 record 2-3
Lost ND #11
Lost Ok. st #20
Lost TCU # 7
Beat #5 Ok
Beat #13 Baylor

Overall: 4-9 vs ranked opponents

Louisville: 37-15 (4 ranked teams) 2-2
Texas: 11-14 ( 9 ranked teams) 2-7
Career: 48-29 .623



If you compare his records to all MNC coached since 2000 it shows that the successful coaches win immediately.
Not one coach had a sub .500 at their school that they won a NC at.

Larry Coker - won national title in Year 1.

Urban Meyer - won national title in Year 2.
(9-3 previous year finished 2nd in Conf.)

Gene Chizik - won national title in Year 2.
(8-5 previous year finished 4thW in Conf.)

Jim Tressel - won national title in Year 2.
(7-5 previous year finished 3rd in Conf.)

Bob Stoops - won national title in Year 2
(7-5 previous year finished T-2nd in Conf.)

Les Miles - won national title in Year 3.
(1st year: 11-2 finished 1st in Conf.)
(2nd year: 11-2 finished T-1st in Conf.)

Jimbo Fisher - won national title in Year 4.
(1st year: 10-4 finished 1st in Conf.)
(2nd year: 9-4 finished T-2nd in Conf.)
(3rd year: 12-2 finished T-1st in Conf.)

Pete Carroll - won national title in Year 4.
(1st year: 6-6 finished 5th in Conf.)
(2nd year: 11-2 finished T-2st in Conf.)
(3rd year: 12-1 finished 1st in Conf.)

Nick Saban - won national title in Year 4 @ LSU
(1st year: 8-4 finished 3rd in Conf.)
(2nd year: 10-3 finished 1st in Conf.)
(3rd year: 8-5 finished T-2nd in Conf.)

Nick Saban - won national title in Year 3 at Alabama.
(1st year: 2-6 finished T-3rdW in Conf.)
(2nd year: 12-2 finished 1st in Conf.)
(3rd year: 14-0 finished 1st in Conf.)

Mack Brown - won natioanl title in Year 8.
(1st year: 9-3 finished 2nd in Conf.)
(2nd year: 9-5 finished 1st in Conf.)
(3rd year: 9-3 finished 2nd in Conf.)
(4th year: 11-2 finished 1th in Conf.)
(5th year: 11-2 finished T-1st in Conf.)
(6th year: 10-3 finished 2nd in Conf.)
(7th year: 11-1 finished 2nd in Conf.)

-----------------------------------------
Charlie Strong - at Texas
(1st year: 6-7 finished T-4th in Conf.)
(2nd year: 5-7 finished T-5th in Conf.)


We are fans of the University of Texas not the University of Charlie Strong. We need to do what is best for Texas and it is time to move on at the end of the season and get the coach that shows more promise and he happens to be a Texas Alum.

Hook'em

Great post. I like Strong but I am still steaming over bringing Watson and some other coaches that had not business at the University of Texas. I hope he can get it done but I do have my doubts. How do you keep the DC after the defensive performances Texas has had the last 2 years? It does concern me.

 

[swVAHorn]

Color me unimpressed. I only brought up your football prowess, as it is what you attacked initially. And for a know it all, your examples are just a name game. And have no congruency to the point. We could sit here all day and toss out names of guys that HCs took with them to other jobs. And I could toss out names of guys that did the opposite.

And none of it has bearing. Saban is not Strong. Strong was stepping up to a job that many thought he might be in over his head. Those guys tend to go out and impress with coordinator hires to secure their position. Saban won freaking titles, he can keep whomever he wants, and yet he regularly steps outside his circle in hires. And Strongs biggest fault wasn't bringing HIS guys with him, it was bringing guys that are pretty much all GONE already in year 3 from the staff. Guys who had failed in this very conference before.

Look none of that has any bearing on my statement of "Charlie's nepotism and loyalty led to mishires that ultimately could be his downfall". I am not arguing that nepotism doesn't exist, I am just saying he wasn't bringing studs with him, he was bringing retreads that proved to still need to be fired in the BigXII like they were a few years back.

And for someone who watches and knows football, you'd think you could get a name right Belichick, Crennel, and Kiffin. Do you think it is a coincidence that Kiffin is working for Saban whom he had ZERO ties to?

I don't give a crap if you hire your mother in law to be the OC, if she can succeed at the job. But if you bypass other more qualified candidates for her, and then don't fire her when she fails......that's a problem.

This. This. This!

 

[LongfellowDrew]

"He will be the next great coach at Texas IMO"

@_PIIHB_ Possibly! I just don't see UT dropping everything to go after Tom at this moment being that we're currently 2-1.

 

[TexExSpur]

"He will be the next great coach at Texas IMO"

@_PIIHB_ Possibly! I just don't see UT dropping everything to go after Tom at this moment being that we're currently 2-1.

They wont....The poker table is loading up, but this team still has 9 games to play.

TH is not a proven winner (coaching in the American) nor a proven savior, there is Meyer and Saban...then everyone else.

Game management is my biggest beef with Strong.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

They wont....The poker table is loading up, but this team still has 9 games to play.

TH is not a proven winner (coaching in the American) nor a proven savior, there is Meyer and Saban...then everyone else.

Game management is my biggest beef with Strong.

I agree I'm not sold on Tom H. yet. To me we hear about these coaches that are on fire for a couple of years and then it's back to being just like everyone. I do like Tom and where he has his program headed or looking to head but I'll wait. I'd take Meyer or Saban in a split second but that's just not going to happen.

 

[bubba2023]

If Texas is to fire Strong soon, either this season or the next, Meyer and Saban won't be the new coach which means whomever they hire will have question marks because every coach not named Saban or Meyer do.

 

[TexExSpur]

If Texas is to fire Strong soon, either this season or the next, Meyer and Saban won't be the new coach which means whomever they hire will have question marks because every coach not named Saban or Meyer do.

Meyer nor Saban will ever be the coach at Texas.

I'd take Dabo bring Venables over before TH if we're making coaching changes in our imagination.

 

[bubba2023]

Meyer nor Saban will ever be the coach at Texas.

I'd take Dabo bring Venables over before TH if we're making coaching changes in our imagination.

I think he would turn us down even in imagination land. I don't think we can poach many successful coaches from successful P5 programs. It's not like we are going to double his salary.

 

[TexExSpur]

I think he would turn us down even in imagination land. I don't think we can poach many successful coaches from successful P5 programs. It's not like we are going to double his salary.

Right, but imagination land is where many of the guys are living.... on this board.

 

[TexExSpur]

There hasn't been a coach at Texas in my lifetime that was fired in less than 4 years.

The shortest stint was McWilliams 87-91

He went:

7-5
4-7
5-6
10-2
5-6

 

[bubba2023]

Right, but imagination land is where many of the guys are living.... on this board.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

If Strong is gone, I'm going to say we go after:

1. Tom Herman
2. Dabo Sweeney
3. Kyle Whittingham
4. David Shaw
5. An NFL guy

For my money, I would roll the dice on Herman. To me he has the "IT" factor. I think he will be great no matter where he goes. But at Texas he might be Saban good.

 

[clob94]

If Strong is gone, I'm going to say we go after:

1. Tom Herman
2. Dabo Sweeney
3. Kyle Whittingham
4. David Shaw
5. An NFL guy

For my money, I would roll the dice on Herman. To me he has the "IT" factor. I think he will be great no matter where he goes. But at Texas he might be Saban good.

Already made the argument why Herman ain't there..................yet.

 

[bubba2023]

I don't think 2 and 4 are realistic. Shaw would be at the top of my wish list for sure. I would take him over any of those guys, but we would have hired him 2 years ago if we had a shot.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

If Strong is gone, I'm going to say we go after:

1. Tom Herman
2. Dabo Sweeney
3. Kyle Whittingham
4. David Shaw
5. An NFL guy

For my money, I would roll the dice on Herman. To me he has the "IT" factor. I think he will be great no matter where he goes. But at Texas he might be Saban good.

1 Year and you can see the "IT: factor? Just a question. Sometimes those "IT" factors turn into overrated.

 

[ryan_sublett]

I don't think 2 and 4 are realistic. Shaw would be at the top of my wish list for sure. I would take him over any of those guys, but we would have hired him 2 years ago if we had a shot.

Yeah. I think when/if hehe leaves Stanford it will be for a NFL job.

 

[ryan_sublett]

Chris Peterson would be another guy I'd add. Won at Boise State. Has Washington in the top 10

 

[Son of Wasatch]

1 Year and you can see the "IT: factor? Just a question. Sometimes those "IT" factors turn into overrated.

Thus I said roll the dice. Yea, he has the IT factor, but he is still a gamble. Other guys that came across as having the "IT" factor were guys like Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh, and David Shaw.

I've been wrong a lot also. I was sure that Kevin Sumlin had the "IT" factor same with coach Boom.

No matter who we choose, it's going to be a gamble. Why I like Herman's chances at being successful at Texas.

1. Big 12 is a wide open offensive conference and he might have one of the most dynamic offenses. Outside of Bob Stoops, I can't think of a single defensive coach that was hugely successful in this conference.

2. Under Tom Herman, we will not need to worry about who our OC is and will he be successful. Tom should always be able to field a potent offense.

3. Herman knows Texas recruiting and already has good relationships with Texas high school coaches.

4. Getting Herman as our first choice would go far to make the Alumni feel better about the direction of the Program.

 

[Cotton #12]

Herman has already coached at Texas as a Grad assistant 1999-2000 under Mack Brown and Greg Davis.He is a member of Mensa.

 

[Aggy=Nazi]

What are the powers that be saying now Clob?

 

[TexExSpur]

He gone

 

[Tired Horn]

Herman issues:
What if they win out and make the playoff. He's not quitting until they get a chance to play. That would be in January. Can we afford to wait that long. so I'm pulling for a L'ville win on Nov 17th and squash that issue. but what do we do if that happens . Sacrifice the class?

Also, does he bring Major with him as OC? Major was awesome as a recruiter and worked his ass off for UT during the transition. However, he was marginal at best as an OC. Can we see something from UH this year that points to his touch or is it all Herman? Would the University be willing to take him back with the past issue with the butterball grad assistant.

Media: I live in Houston and I can't say Herman has handled the Media well. He has a Sabaneske quality to his demeanor. That works if you are Saban, but not so much if you are Bo Pelini. Can he go schmooze with Red McCombs etc. How will he handle the LHN?

 

[ryan_sublett]

It's possible major becomes HC at Houston if Herman leaves. Houston has history of promoting from within and usually offense. I've thought about the major thing though. That is an interesting issue. His first stint here wasn't successful but he didn't have a QB like Shane. I know there were off field issues as well but I'm not sure that deserves exile. If Herman wanted to bring him I'd support that.

Curious. Would the potential NCAA trouble at ole miss remove Hugh Freeze from anyone's list? If not he probably should be near the top.