No....you havnt been trolling. I look for a good game I echo what LS said....come on back any time...good posters are always welcome in my book.
ND Game.....
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No....you havnt been trolling. I look for a good game I echo what LS said....come on back any time...good posters are always welcome in my book.
Good posts! I hope ND comes out fully charged. I want to see what we are and early!
Well, same for us. It's a great first game, one of the better ones of week one. I want fully charged but under control. This will be tougher than Rice or Temple, both of which we handled easily. If we got a similar result, I think we could be in for a good year. If it's close, either Texas is good or ND isn't. No other way to really look at it. I'm kind of looking forward to the 2016 game in Texas.
I will say that ND tends to play to their competition, which is why I'm hopeful in this particular case.....STANFORD'S always tough, 2012 OU, 2014 FSU come to mind. I think we were robbed in last year's FSU game but it's debatable and a matter of opinion I suppose
I will say that ND tends to play to their competition, which is why I'm hopeful in this particular case.....STANFORD'S always tough, 2012 OU, 2014 FSU come to mind. I think we were robbed in last year's FSU game but it's debatable and a matter of opinion I suppose
I think you bring up several salient points here.
1. As for a young QB/O-Line, I'd think the biggest issue is going up against a very experienced defense that's going to be VERY agressive and blitz OFTEN (it's just what our DC does). With a healthy unit and in Year 2 of our new DC's scheme, I'd expect a lot of pressure to be put on the QB/O-Line to get the read right and adjust to the stunts, twists, blitzes, etc.
2. It's pretty tough to have the DB's needed to "shut down" ND's WR's. Florida State couldn't do that with Darby, PJ Williams, Ramsey, and Andrews...who are all either drafted or going to be drafted. Much more effective has usually been having the DT/LB/S needed to limit ND's run game and turn them into a 1-Dimensional Passing offense that's turnover prone
3. Notre Dame has definite questions in the seconday (specifically the mental/leadership capacity of the safeties) but they're anything but young. None of ND's starting DB's will be younger than their Junior Season, and 3/5 will be in their 4th or 5th years. They've all seen a lot of "Hurry Up Spread" attacks from teams like North Carolina, Arizona State, etc.
Ultimately, I think this game (like most games) is going to be won by the consistency/dominance of the "trenches" and the consistency/errors of the QB position
I think this ends up being a pretty good game, but I like ND's chances as they have an edge in both of those areas (in my view)
Notre Dame was certainly good enough to beat last years Texas offense with their defense, then again, statistically speaking....ND was in the 70's for nearly every defensive stat in 2014. They were not very good and they were horrible on 3rd down defense. Basically, their defense was very similar to the Aggy's.
I'll give ND the edge because they're playing at home, but I think Texas could easily surprise in this game! Strong will use both QB's if need be and a spark may be all it takes to get the job done.
I'll give ND the edge because they're playing at home, but I think Texas could easily surprise in this game! Strong will use both QB's if need be and a spark may be all it takes to get the job done.
ND's defense was actually pretty strong in the first half of the year, when it was healthy
ND's defense was very, very thin going into 2014, due to NFL departures, graduation, and suspensions
In the 2nd half of the season, Notre Dame had lost 7-8 defensive starters...and that completely killed the defense and it fell apart
Texas is going to be facing a pretty health and deep Notre Dame defense however, one much more similar to the start of the 2014 season than the end of it
Every team is affected by injuries, but that's definitely something to keep in mind when looking at the defense Texas will face for this game
(ND's defense and OL were RAVAGED by injuries in 2014........both units will be exceedinly talented and mainly healthy when Texas faces them)
When did they face a threat on offense? 6th game?
Rice 65th gave up 17
Michigan 112th gave up 0
Purdue 108th gave up 14
Syracuse 113th gave up 15
Stanford 75th gave up 14
That D never got tested, early!
North Carolina 45th gave up 43
FSU 35th gave up 27
Navy 50th gave up 39
ASU 34th gave up 55
Northwestern 104th gave up 43
Louisville 69th gave up 31
USC 29th gave up 49 they were down 3 not 7-8 defensive starters for this game.
LSU 77th gave up 28
So, the best offense they faced all year long was USC.
Also, it was every aspect of D that was not good. 3rd down, red zone, passing, rushing, you name it.
Rice 65th gave up 17
Michigan 112th gave up 0
Purdue 108th gave up 14
Syracuse 113th gave up 15
Stanford 75th gave up 14
That D never got tested, early!
North Carolina 45th gave up 43
FSU 35th gave up 27
Navy 50th gave up 39
ASU 34th gave up 55
Northwestern 104th gave up 43
Louisville 69th gave up 31
USC 29th gave up 49 they were down 3 not 7-8 defensive starters for this game.
LSU 77th gave up 28
So, the best offense they faced all year long was USC.
Also, it was every aspect of D that was not good. 3rd down, red zone, passing, rushing, you name it.
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Once the defense was ravaged by injuries in the 2nd half of the season, it was bad in every area of the game...no question there
But when it was healthy, it was good in almost every area of the game (despite being very thin and pretty young), though you're right it hadn't faced many top offenses
I'm pointing out that simply looking at season long stats from a unit RAVAGED by injuries later in the season doesn't tell you very much, when they showed quite a bit of promise earlier in the season (if not the full "proof" that you'd want to see, given the opponents)
Hmmm....our counting must be a bit different
Defensive Players missing for USC:
Starters
NT -- Jarron Jones (2014 Starter)
DT -- Sheldon Day (2013 & 2014 Starter)
WDE -- Ishaq Williams (named Starter prior to 2014 season before being suspended)
MLB -- Jarrett Grace (2013 Starter, leading tackler when healthy, missed all of 2014)
MLB -- Joe Schmidt (2014 Starter, voted Defensive MVP)
CB -- KeiVarie Russell (2012, 2013 & 2015 Starter, named starter for 2014 before being suspensed)
CB -- Cody Riggs (2014 Starter)
FS -- Collinsworth (2013 & 2014 Starter)
2-Deep
NT -- Daniel Cage
DT -- Tony Springman
DT -- Jay Hayes
ILB -- Greer Martini
S -- Nicky Baratti
By my count, ND was missing 8 Starting Defenders it was counting on....but even the most "conservative" number of missing Defensive Starters would be 5-6, with a majority of the 2-Deep then missing
Trying to say they were missing "just a few" defenders for the later part of the season is just plain inaccurate......it simply wasn't even close to the same defense (personnel wise) as the earlier part of the season
Notre Dame will undoubtably be better defense after only losing 1-2 defensive starters from 2014, and adding in 2-3 Starters from Injury/Suspension that didn't get to play a snap in 2014 (even during the early part of the season)....not to mention the 5+ additional starters they'll get back from injury.....plus all the 2-Deep players they get back from injury......plus the fact that basically the entire defense is a year older.....plus the fact that they'll be in Year 2 of the new scheme/DC
I wouldn't rule it out from being a top level defense, as it will have the NFL talent necessary to be at that good at every level of the defense.
Day(DT), Jones(NT), Rochell (DE/DT), Jaylon (ILB/OLB), Russell (CB), Luke (CB), Redfield (FS), Shumate (SS) are all projected to be NFL Draft Picks in either the 2016 or 2017 drafts....and some project players beyond them too
The defense Texas will faces will be a RADICALLY DIFFERENT defense than what USC faced....if for no other reason that it will have 5-8 starters back and a boat-load of experience beyond that
I wont get into debates of whether or not ND's defense will be good. Personally, if the injuries respect them, I think they will. I will say, that the injuries really affected what our DC could/couldn't do defensively. We were already yound with all of our players, and losing what we did in a few key positions really hampered us.
For a little more background into just how bad the injuries were for ND late in the 2014 season
2014 ND Defense "Initial Starters"
Pos. - Start (Years Starting, Grade)
WDE - I. Williams (0 , JR) / Okwara (0 , JR)
NT - J. Jones (0 , rSO) / Cage (0 , FR)
DT - Day (1 , JR) / Springman (0 , rJR)
SDE - Rochell (0 , SO) / Trumbetti (0 , FR)
WLB - J. Smith (1 , SO) / Martini (0, FR)
MLB - Grace (1 , rJR) / Schmidt (0 , rJR)
SLB - Onwaulu (0 , SO) / Hill (0 , FR)
NB - Farley (2 , rJR) , Tranquill (0 , FR)
CB - Russell (2 , JR) , Luke (0 , SO)
CB -Riggs (5th Year Transfer) , Luke (0 , SO)
FS - Redfield (0 , SO) / Baratti (0 , rSO)
SS - Collinsworth (1 , SR) / Shumate (0 , JR)
It was always going to be a young, inexperienced defense from the start. Some of these players we lost just before the 1st game of the season (Collinsworth, Grace, Russell, Williams, Hardy)
However, the defense did play well early in the year, albiet against mediocre and poor offenses
If you look at what remained of that list by the USC Game....
WDE - ______________ , Okwara (0 , JR)
NT - _______________ , _________________
DT - _______________ , _________________
SDE - Rochell (0 , SO) / Trumbetti (0 , FR)
WLB - J. Smith (1 , SO) / Martini (0, FR)
MLB - _______________ , _________________
SLB - Onwaulu (0 , SO) / Hill (0 , FR)
NB - Farley (2 , rJR) _______________
CB - _______________ , Luke (0 , SO)
CB - _______________ , Luke (0 , SO)
FS - Redfield (0 , SO) _______________
SS - ________________ , Shumate (0 , JR)
It wasn't even close to the same defense, especially right up front (particularly the middle) and on the backend....it became almost comically young and inexperienced, and just completely out of the players depth
The 2015 Defense that Texas will face is could have all but 2 players initially named starters in 2014, and only 1 additional loss in the entire 2-Deep
That, plus all the experience and depth gained during the 2014 season and off-season should have it being an entirely different defense than the shell unit that USC faced
Again, Notre Dame may not be a great defense in 2015, but they definitely have the potential to be and are exceedingly unlikely to be anything like the defense that played USC in 2014
Simply using those stats from the later part of the 2014 season won't really give you much of a feel at all for the defense Texas will face in 2015
2014 ND Defense "Initial Starters"
Pos. - Start (Years Starting, Grade)
WDE - I. Williams (0 , JR) / Okwara (0 , JR)
NT - J. Jones (0 , rSO) / Cage (0 , FR)
DT - Day (1 , JR) / Springman (0 , rJR)
SDE - Rochell (0 , SO) / Trumbetti (0 , FR)
WLB - J. Smith (1 , SO) / Martini (0, FR)
MLB - Grace (1 , rJR) / Schmidt (0 , rJR)
SLB - Onwaulu (0 , SO) / Hill (0 , FR)
NB - Farley (2 , rJR) , Tranquill (0 , FR)
CB - Russell (2 , JR) , Luke (0 , SO)
CB -Riggs (5th Year Transfer) , Luke (0 , SO)
FS - Redfield (0 , SO) / Baratti (0 , rSO)
SS - Collinsworth (1 , SR) / Shumate (0 , JR)
It was always going to be a young, inexperienced defense from the start. Some of these players we lost just before the 1st game of the season (Collinsworth, Grace, Russell, Williams, Hardy)
However, the defense did play well early in the year, albiet against mediocre and poor offenses
If you look at what remained of that list by the USC Game....
WDE - ______________ , Okwara (0 , JR)
NT - _______________ , _________________
DT - _______________ , _________________
SDE - Rochell (0 , SO) / Trumbetti (0 , FR)
WLB - J. Smith (1 , SO) / Martini (0, FR)
MLB - _______________ , _________________
SLB - Onwaulu (0 , SO) / Hill (0 , FR)
NB - Farley (2 , rJR) _______________
CB - _______________ , Luke (0 , SO)
CB - _______________ , Luke (0 , SO)
FS - Redfield (0 , SO) _______________
SS - ________________ , Shumate (0 , JR)
It wasn't even close to the same defense, especially right up front (particularly the middle) and on the backend....it became almost comically young and inexperienced, and just completely out of the players depth
The 2015 Defense that Texas will face is could have all but 2 players initially named starters in 2014, and only 1 additional loss in the entire 2-Deep
That, plus all the experience and depth gained during the 2014 season and off-season should have it being an entirely different defense than the shell unit that USC faced
Again, Notre Dame may not be a great defense in 2015, but they definitely have the potential to be and are exceedingly unlikely to be anything like the defense that played USC in 2014
Simply using those stats from the later part of the 2014 season won't really give you much of a feel at all for the defense Texas will face in 2015
ok Domers....yall will be great....yall will be terriffic...poor us.
That by God done it!...I hope yall have everyone you can muster at top form! I hope yall come out determined and ready to play. The rest of the world has yall as anywhere from 13.5 to 10 point favorites...Well, I say yall better bring it! You better have your hats strapped on tight and be ready. We are going to bring our young team in with not one excuse! We will be ready to play, so I hope yall will be. I hope no one is injured and may the best team win! I just happen to think that will be us!.....Hookem!
That by God done it!...I hope yall have everyone you can muster at top form! I hope yall come out determined and ready to play. The rest of the world has yall as anywhere from 13.5 to 10 point favorites...Well, I say yall better bring it! You better have your hats strapped on tight and be ready. We are going to bring our young team in with not one excuse! We will be ready to play, so I hope yall will be. I hope no one is injured and may the best team win! I just happen to think that will be us!.....Hookem!
Okay I got pumped up now from oldhorn2! Our boys with a chip on their shoulders will be surprising a whole lot of people when we are on the field. We will get our swag back soon! Let's hope for no injuries on both sides. We have already been down can't get any lower the only way is up! Good luck come game day!
Hook 'Em
Hook 'Em
10 Hail Mary's and 7 our Fathers should suffice! On a serious note! Their defense will look top 10 if our offense looks anything like 2014....
That number came from an article Decker, maybe the challenge is whom is considered a starter.
That number came from an article Decker, maybe the challenge is whom is considered a starter.
This might be one of those really ugly games. Both defenses should be pretty good, but we both offenses might be pretty bad. I still would take Texas and the points just because there is an unknown with the Texas offense this year if Heard is going to start.
Okay, so Notre Dame had a lot of injuries for the USC game. How do you explain the shitty play against North Carolina and ASU?
So explain why the ND defense sucked so bad against North Carolina?
here are the guys that played in the North Carolina game.
38 Schmidt, Joe
10 Redfield, Max
22 Shumate, Elijah
2 Riggs, Cody
94 Jones, Jarron
41 Farley, Matthias
36 Luke, Cole
9 Smith, Jaylon
20 PROSISE, CJ
45 Okwara, Romeo
23 Tranquill, Drue
12 Butler, Devin
90 ROCHELL, Issac
53 Utupo, Justin
92 Blankenship, Grant
30 Councell, Ben
17 Onwualu, James
48 Martini, Greer
28 Collinsworth, Austin
25 Folston, Tarean
91 Day, Sheldon
98 Trumbetti, Andrew
So explain why the ND defense sucked so bad against North Carolina?
here are the guys that played in the North Carolina game.
38 Schmidt, Joe
10 Redfield, Max
22 Shumate, Elijah
2 Riggs, Cody
94 Jones, Jarron
41 Farley, Matthias
36 Luke, Cole
9 Smith, Jaylon
20 PROSISE, CJ
45 Okwara, Romeo
23 Tranquill, Drue
12 Butler, Devin
90 ROCHELL, Issac
53 Utupo, Justin
92 Blankenship, Grant
30 Councell, Ben
17 Onwualu, James
48 Martini, Greer
28 Collinsworth, Austin
25 Folston, Tarean
91 Day, Sheldon
98 Trumbetti, Andrew
It's really pretty simple...our defense wasn't great last year.
Even when they were playing well early in the year, after the injuries/suspensions to Grace, Collinsworth, Russel, Williams, and Hardy they only had 3 players with more than a couple starts prior to the 2014 season.
That was always going to be a very young, very thin, very inexperienced defense and the offense was going to have to carry the team to some victories.
In addition to being that young/thin/inexperienced, they also had a brand new DC who was switching the defense from a "3-4, Bend Don't Break, 2-High Safety" style defense to a "4-3, Very Aggressive, Man-on-Man"style
The 2014 defense was decent when it was healthy, but it was never a Top5 overall defense in CFB (what it was ranked going into the North Carolina game). The reality for the 2014 defense was somewhere in the middle of those extremes that it was judged to be at times (Top5 and Terrible)
The key is, when healthy the defense as talented and showed flashes, but was inconsistent and mistake prone (but not a bad defense overall). When it was ravaged by injuries late in the season, it was garbage.
There is no way to know 100% what we'll get from the defense in 2015...which is why ND fans are much higher in the offense than the defense...but with the number if returning players, the talent, and the extra time in the system, there is a lot if optimism that we'll see the natural progression of the "talented but inconsistent" unit from earl in the 2014 season into a very strong unit for 2015
It would be surprising if NDs offense wasn't very successful in 2014, actually. It's really expected to be the strength if the team, well ahead of the defense.
The defense has potential, but he offense looks like a much safer bet
The QB is the biggest ? As he's the least experienced component of the unit, but he's played we'll very time he's gone in and showed out fairly well against a very good defense in LSU
Also, we won't really be leaning on him to "run the show" too much as we return 4/5 OLs from the LSU game and are largely held to have one of the Top10 OLs in CFB for 2015
On top of that our leading RB averaged 110 yards, 6.2 yards/touch, and 1 TD over the final 8 games of the season (as a true sophomore)
And there is a lot of excitement about the RB/WR hybrid player (Prosise) that broke out at the end of last season against USC and LSU
So most ND fans are expecting the OL, RB, and QB runs to carry the load on offense
Though we do return a True Sophomore WR who had ~1,100 Yards and 15 TDs last season....plus basically every other WR who caught a pass (and then some)....so we should be able to make a play through the air when necessary too
Personally, is think the game is more likely to be a shoutout than a shutout type if affair...though we'll learn a lot more about both teams in the fall...and somewhere inbetween the two extremes is probably the most likely outcome
Hey, how can you not like some jacked up about the team and excited for a no holds barred game between two blue bloods at their very best??
That's the kind if game everyone hopes to see
Hell, I'm an ND fan and hate USC with very fiber of my being....but that Texas/USC national championship game was just great to watch!!
I'd love a Texas/ND game like that...with ND coming out on top, of course!
I'll take a wait and see approach. I'll say that I'm "cautiously optimistic" to use Coach Kelly's words.
I expect ND to be better, but why wouldn't I? I'm assuming some natural progression and taking into account that ND returns pretty much all the starters and adds one (maybe two) more from 2013/14.
By that means Texas should be better. on the D-line Ridgeway is going to turn some heads. The O-Line coach Joe Wickline is good. While the line was horrible last year, he can develop and should get them headed in the right direction. I think the defensive backfield, from what I've read and heard, will be a team strength, but as with Notre Dame, it's all wait and see. I guess well find out a little over a month from now. That's when they can both put their money where their mouth is.
I expect ND to be better, but why wouldn't I? I'm assuming some natural progression and taking into account that ND returns pretty much all the starters and adds one (maybe two) more from 2013/14.
By that means Texas should be better. on the D-line Ridgeway is going to turn some heads. The O-Line coach Joe Wickline is good. While the line was horrible last year, he can develop and should get them headed in the right direction. I think the defensive backfield, from what I've read and heard, will be a team strength, but as with Notre Dame, it's all wait and see. I guess well find out a little over a month from now. That's when they can both put their money where their mouth is.
I wouldn't bother responding to dockag...he is just another aggy sock that has been banned many times. aggy schedules east northern polytechnic for their OOC games, so they don't want the UT Notre Dame game to outshine them. Any dirt they can throw on this game , they will do.
So, if you know your defense sucked, why make excuses for how badly you played against USC?
Injuries happen, Texas knows better than anyone. In game one of last year we lost 3 of 5 offensive linemen and our QB for the year. Last season, our offense never had a chance. Add to that all the guys that were kicked off because they couldn't stay off the weed and you have a offense ranked about 110th last year.
It is what it is, we finished last year 6-7 but you don't here Texas fans crying about injuries being the reason we got ass raped by Arkansas? By that time, our backups had played a full season and they were what they were.
You seem to be confusing "Not Great" and "Sucked"
Our backups hadn't played a full season a most positions on defense, and at many/most positions on defense we weren't even playing backups but 3rd or 4th stringers
If you look at the games where the defense was relatively healthy
Rice - 17 Points Allowed
Michigan - 0 Points Allowed
Purdue - 14 Points Allowed
Syracuse - 15 Points Allowed
Stanford - 14 Points Allowed
North Carolina - 43 Points Allowed
Florida State - 31 Points Allowed
LSU - 21 Points Allowed (7 points on a KR for a TD, not "Healthy" but better than the late season)
When you look through those games, you get a decent defense, though not great and definitely prone to some inconsistency...which is a pretty fair version of the 2014 ND Defense
The reason that you then explain the MASSIVE INJURIES that happened later in the season is when the analysis on the ND Defense was that it was terrible and because of that is unlikely to be good in 2014
Those aren't accurate and need to be corrected with proper context information (thus my explanation)
Basically, Notre Dame's defense was very young and very inexperienced from the jump in 2014....but was a solid unit initially though not a special one
Injuries completely derailed the unit later in the season, giving it horrible stats
However, with almost all of the starters and contributors back for the 2015 season plus returning a mountain of starters from injury/suspension....it's important to look for improvement from the early part of the season, not the later part
There is very good reason to believe that ND could end up fielding a very good or great defense in 2015.........however, it's far from a sure thing and definitely hasn't been proven at this point
To say another way, if the early season defense had played USC we wouldn't have shut them out (likely) because we weren't a great defense in 2014 but we would have put together a much more respectable performance (likely) and that would then affect the view of the potential 2015 defense that Texas will face...........which is really the point of this thread
So if you're going to use 2014's defensive performance to try to predict the defense Texas will face, you need to have full context.........because simply basing your view of bad stats and a very poor late season performance will mislead you (for obvious reasons)
There will be 3x as many initial 2014 starters on the 2015 defense Texas will face than on the 2014 defense USC faced
(Not to mention all additional growth, development, and experience of the contributors and depth players)
I don't think you're going ot be facing a bad defense in 2 months....I'd bet that you'll actually end up facing a pretty darn good defense
(though I still expect them to play with some inconsistency, especially at Safety)
