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Kyler Murray > Lincoln Riley for 2018

Heisenberg...

1. Go back and reread the thread and you'll understand why I said what I said about Murray and the production. Then maybe you'll understand why I made that comment.

2. Cool

3. You keep bringing up this JUCO stuff. Nobody said anything about JUCO fella. JUCO was never an option for him. I just find it puzzling that you don't think lack of height has bearing on QB production. It is common sense Heisenberg. It it didn't have an affect then there would be more sub 6' QBs at the D1 level.

4. Does he wear a Red jersey or nah? You acting like you have some superior football knowledge is pretty bush Heisenberg. I'm really trying to have a legitimate conversation with a sooner...it doesn't happen much with your bunch, but I'm giving it a shot.

5. Yeah, that isn't the case at all. On this board and the OU board I have always shown respect to the football players and coaches from OU. For you to say this shit is pretty weak.

6. If he is 5-10, he's 5-10. I don't give a rip. I don't know him, anyone from Allen or anyone that knows him.

7. Man, of course he was recruited to play QB. He was one of the best in Texas HS football all-time. However, lots of DUAL threat QBs end up moving to other positions and someone with his athleticism certainly has a nice back up plan. You're taking what I'm saying way too personal. It's not that deep.

8. When did I say I didn't think he is a QB? Or even a good to very good QB? I said he will lead OU to 10 wins and possible Big 12 title. What I've disagreed with is that OU's offense won't miss a step with him at QB and that he will throw for 3000 and run for 1000. I mean, is it really that big of a slap in the face to you that I would disgree with those statements? Really?

1. sure you had your reasons, but it didnt have anything to do with anything I said. So you were talking to someone else.

3. I know you didnt say anything about juco. My point is juco ranks are chock full of small quick guys who are good qbs but not big enough to play at this level. So despite his stature nearly every major program in the country wanted him. so your opinion is clashing with the opinion of men who get paid millions of dollars to evaluate talent.

You cant prove height has any bearing on production. Height doesnt affect accuracy, arm strength, decision making. or what abilities he has when protection breaks down. Doesn't give him magic powers that a 5'10 qb doesnt have. It gives him an advantage in seeing over the line, which is something that hasnt been a big problem for many qbs under 6'. Just because there arent many you can think of doesnt mean they cant play. It usually means a short guy who is playing at this level is pretty damn exceptional since that's not what you usually look for so he's making up for it somehow. His height sure didnt affect his pretty impressive production in 2017.

4. I'm acting like he's been playing behind big linemen for a long time. You act like he's gonna trot out there in september behind giant men for the first time in his life. Go watch some video and tell me his height affected him much last year.

5. Wrong, you obviously want him to fail. That's exactly how you feel, you'd love nothing more than to see him fail and be right. I get it, he's played for your two most hated enemies and you have no reason to look at his upside. You cant even acknowledge how much better he looked last year than he did as a freshman. All you see is downside. Because you are pulling for him to fail. I wouldnt expect anything less from a texas fan.

7. Not taking it personal, you are just trying to paint a narrative that does not exist. Sure some guys play other positions, and some guys dont. It was never anything anyone talked about with him, but you bring it up anyway. Why? Cause your narrative is he's not gonna be able to be good at this level so youre using hyperbole and possibilities nobody in Norman is considering to try to back it up.

8. You wrote that Murray thinks he's a qb, and i responded, that indeed, of course he's thinks he's a qb. You had just stated something so obvious, i said well, of course. like, duh, ya know?

Ou's offense wont miss a step and that's true. He will not produce like Mayfield did, but you dont need Mayfield like production to produce big in this offense. They have so much returning talent everywhere on that offense that qb is literally the least experienced position on the O and he's been in the system for a 3rd season. All he has to manage and refrain from mistakes, 'cause everyone else will do their job.
No not a slap in the face, i never once ever suggested for a second that he would produce those numbers. So if you thought that, then what a weirdo!
 
Heisenberg,

I'm now convinced that you refuse to see my point because I'm a Texas fan.

The entire 1st page was dedicated to how OU's offense will not skip a beat because of all the amazing weapons and Lincoln Riley, etc.

I stated I don't think a 5-8 QB will be as productive as the #1 pick in the draft.

Stay with me here...your original response was you don't see how height has any reflection on production. I took it as you saying that in general terms, not just Kyler specifically. Still with me? I hope so. You then agreed with ME, that height is a disadvantage, so...

I think his lack of height WILL have an affect on his production, you disagree. That is fine. One of us will be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'm assuming you have too...it's not a big deal. And how in the world would I insinuate Kyler wouldn't be "good" at this level but yet pick OU to win 10 games? All I ever disagreed with is that OU will not be in the playoff and part of that reason is the QB. Then I said that he could very well prove me wrong...it's just a prediction. I never used an absolute in this entire thread.

To continue my point, I also agree with you that lack of HT can be overcome with superior athletic abilities. I can point to Vince Young. People said he wouldn't play QB at the D1 level because of his throwing mechanics. And in fact, I think OU recruited him as an ATH that may play QB yes? Can't exactly remember. Anyway, VY was an outlier, just like Murray would be as a 5-10 QB. So I agree with you that deficiencies in the "prototype" can be overcome.

Please show me where I used hyperbole Heisenberg.

You rooting for Sam Ehlinger to be successful Heisenberg? You hope he leads Texas to victory in the Cotton Bowl? Texas to a Big XII title?
 
Geez let Weevil enjoy his obsession! I guess if he fails OU will have to put in Austin, but height won’t have anything to do with Murray failing.
 
Geez let Weevil enjoy his obsession! I guess if he fails OU will have to put in Austin, but height won’t have anything to do with Murray failing.

Obsession? I made an innocent comment, which Heisenberg partially agreed with.

Am I not supposed to respond to a 5 paragraph post on my own board Moses?

Anything short of "uh yeah, OU is so great, Murray will win the Heisman and OU will win another National Title" for you guys is apparently obsession, hyperbole, and me just being a "Texas Fan." I get it...
 
I've been catching copious amounts of flack at work from Aggie regarding Murray. "He sucks", "He's a POS" "He couldn't cut it at Aggie" are just a few. Those guys are bitter he left I guess? Heck they should be happy they got Knight in exchange. Knight put together a pretty decent year for the Aggies.
 
sigggghhhh..... I know all of ya'll are too damned young to know this, but the Cowboys first QB was Eddie Labaron. He stood in at (hell, surely he was kneeling) a whopping 5'7"....He would have had to look UP at the munchkin. Eddie was a pro QB for 11 years in the League.He started 85 games in those 11 years. Was his lack of height a disadvantage? Hell yes it was, but he was good enough to beat out lots of taller guys.

Two of the best receivers ever in pro ball were relatively slow....Jerry Rice and Michael Irving. They simply "willed" themselves to be better than everyone else. Will Murray be able to "stand tall" and be a top QB in college ball? We simply dont know that yet because he hasnt had the chance to prove it. I also have my doubts about him, but I wont be surprised to see him succeed.
 
I've been catching copious amounts of flack at work from Aggie regarding Murray. "He sucks", "He's a POS" "He couldn't cut it at Aggie" are just a few. Those guys are bitter he left I guess? Heck they should be happy they got Knight in exchange. Knight put together a pretty decent year for the Aggies.

A&M has had a pretty good run as Last Chance OU. For how much noise they make about the SEC/Big12 it's funny that their starting QB's and RB's are Big 12 3rd string castaways.
 
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I don't doubt his athletic ability. I doubt how committed he will be to the team when he knows he's going to play baseball next year and make millions. A few big hits and I bet he benches himself.
 
A&M has had a pretty good run as Last Chance OU. For how much noise they make about the SEC/Big12 it's funny that their starting QB's and RB's are Big 12 3rd string castaways.
Yeah they also inherited Keith Ford from OU. If I recall I think Ford was a 5 star out of hs and I thought he was a pretty good back at OU, he just got overshadowed by Perine and Mixon and decided to move on.
 
Heisenberg,

I'm now convinced that you refuse to see my point because I'm a Texas fan.

The entire 1st page was dedicated to how OU's offense will not skip a beat because of all the amazing weapons and Lincoln Riley, etc.

I stated I don't think a 5-8 QB will be as productive as the #1 pick in the draft.

Stay with me here...your original response was you don't see how height has any reflection on production. I took it as you saying that in general terms, not just Kyler specifically. Still with me? I hope so. You then agreed with ME, that height is a disadvantage, so...

I think his lack of height WILL have an affect on his production, you disagree. That is fine. One of us will be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'm assuming you have too...it's not a big deal. And how in the world would I insinuate Kyler wouldn't be "good" at this level but yet pick OU to win 10 games? All I ever disagreed with is that OU will not be in the playoff and part of that reason is the QB. Then I said that he could very well prove me wrong...it's just a prediction. I never used an absolute in this entire thread.

To continue my point, I also agree with you that lack of HT can be overcome with superior athletic abilities. I can point to Vince Young. People said he wouldn't play QB at the D1 level because of his throwing mechanics. And in fact, I think OU recruited him as an ATH that may play QB yes? Can't exactly remember. Anyway, VY was an outlier, just like Murray would be as a 5-10 QB. So I agree with you that deficiencies in the "prototype" can be overcome.

Please show me where I used hyperbole Heisenberg.

You rooting for Sam Ehlinger to be successful Heisenberg? You hope he leads Texas to victory in the Cotton Bowl? Texas to a Big XII title?

100% completely see your point. I just dont agree. No sir, I dont care what your fanhood is, In my mind I am not arguing with a texas fan, I'm arguing with someone who doesn't think Murray is tall enough to play qb and be productive. That's good enough reason for me, cause in my opinion his height has no bearing on his production or his ability to produce. So I can dispute that without having to resort to hate or get into any sort of OUvsTx talk.

I said height can be a disadvantage, but just because it can be a disadvantage doesnt mean it'll affect production. You can work around disadvantages and still be just as productive. Landry jones was a terrible decision maker when under pressure and got happy feet and wasnt very mobile. They worked around those disadvantages he had and he turned into one of the most productive qbs ever too. So, i really dont see how his height will affect his production, you havent even given me examples of why. Like sure, you pointed out he has 6'7 linemen. Okay, and how does anyone who cant see over a 6'7 lineman manage to do it? Pretty sure Mayfield did it without much problem, I'm not sure being an inch or 2 shorter will be that huge for him to see over the line. Especially if he moves out of the pocket. But sure, it's possible that he's struggling mightily to see over the line in practice, and everyone is just lying about how good he looks.

You were hyperbolic in your insinuation that he was recruited for his athleticism and may be a good qb or may be a qb. When the reality is he was never seen as anything other than a qb who is very athletic. You present it like he's an athlete who can play qb. Which maybe at one point that was the case, but that was not the case while he was being recruited. He is a qb who has superior athleticism. I mean he's never even played a single rep at any other position, not in college at least. not sure if he did in hs.

Not rooting for Ehlinger to be successful, i dont care either way. I'd rather see texas actually put out a team capable of threatening OU for the Big 12 title, and that might have to mean the qb is good this year. So if anything i'd pull for him not to shit the bed, but I dont care either way.
 
100% completely see your point. I just dont agree. No sir, I dont care what your fanhood is, In my mind I am not arguing with a texas fan, I'm arguing with someone who doesn't think Murray is tall enough to play qb and be productive. That's good enough reason for me, cause in my opinion his height has no bearing on his production or his ability to produce. So I can dispute that without having to resort to hate or get into any sort of OUvsTx talk.

I said height can be a disadvantage, but just because it can be a disadvantage doesnt mean it'll affect production. You can work around disadvantages and still be just as productive. Landry jones was a terrible decision maker when under pressure and got happy feet and wasnt very mobile. They worked around those disadvantages he had and he turned into one of the most productive qbs ever too. So, i really dont see how his height will affect his production, you havent even given me examples of why. Like sure, you pointed out he has 6'7 linemen. Okay, and how does anyone who cant see over a 6'7 lineman manage to do it? Pretty sure Mayfield did it without much problem, I'm not sure being an inch or 2 shorter will be that huge for him to see over the line. Especially if he moves out of the pocket. But sure, it's possible that he's struggling mightily to see over the line in practice, and everyone is just lying about how good he looks.

You were hyperbolic in your insinuation that he was recruited for his athleticism and may be a good qb or may be a qb. When the reality is he was never seen as anything other than a qb who is very athletic. You present it like he's an athlete who can play qb. Which maybe at one point that was the case, but that was not the case while he was being recruited. He is a qb who has superior athleticism. I mean he's never even played a single rep at any other position, not in college at least. not sure if he did in hs.

Not rooting for Ehlinger to be successful, i dont care either way. I'd rather see texas actually put out a team capable of threatening OU for the Big 12 title, and that might have to mean the qb is good this year. So if anything i'd pull for him not to shit the bed, but I dont care either way.


Fair enough Heisenberg.

And just so you know 100% I never said I didn't think Murray was going to be good or that he can't play QB. I don't think he'll lead OU to the playoffs and I don't think he will go for 3000/1000. And yes, some of that has to do with him being 5-10 and the trouble it "COULD" cause. I never once stated that it is an absolute, and in fact gave two examples to the contrary.

Here's to a wonderful season and hopefully Texas can get their shit together and make October even more intense and fun.
 
Fair enough Heisenberg.

And just so you know 100% I never said I didn't think Murray was going to be good or that he can't play QB. I don't think he'll lead OU to the playoffs and I don't think he will go for 3000/1000. And yes, some of that has to do with him being 5-10 and the trouble it "COULD" cause. I never once stated that it is an absolute, and in fact gave two examples to the contrary.

Here's to a wonderful season and hopefully Texas can get their shit together and make October even more intense and fun.

Well it would be silly to suggest he wont be any good. There's enough film on him by know that he's pretty good. I dont think it matters which QB leads the team, that offense is going to be nasty regardless except Murray has more tools at his disposal and his world class speed brings another dimension to the position that does not exist without him. So he'll be much hard to gameplan for than Kendall. I'm pretty sure your DC would rather see Kendall. I know Kiffin already doesnt want to face Murray. Gonna be fun for us as fans to watch that's for sure!

I expect texas to be better this year, they have to be. The offense is gonna be disappointing again though I think
 
Murray was good on film in high school. He's proven nothing at the college level. He won't be running around in college like he did in HS and be able to stay healthy. Listing him at 5' 10" is probably generous. Lets see him have some meaningful playing time at the college level before overhyping him. I hope that he does try to run on the Texas defense. I have a feeling that he'll regret that at some point in the game.

Hook'em!
 
Murray was good on film in high school. He's proven nothing at the college level. He won't be running around in college like he did in HS and be able to stay healthy. Listing him at 5' 10" is probably generous. Lets see him have some meaningful playing time at the college level before overhyping him. I hope that he does try to run on the Texas defense. I have a feeling that he'll regret that at some point in the game.

Hook'em!

No doubt he will have to prove himself. I'd say that though he only attempted 21 passes last year, he did complete 18 of them and looked really good in the time he did have on the field last year. From what I can see, he's vastly improved since his freshman year.

I dont know if 5'10 is generous, but both OU and the A's measure him as 5'10 195. I dont know if they both stand to gain much from embellishing on that but i suppose it doesnt matter in the end. His height isnt gonna be changing so he's stuck with whatever it is. If he can play he can play, his height wont be a huge factor. his frame might be a much bigger factor than his height if it comes down to it. I dont think he'll have to run all that much next year, I bet he wont even have 500 yards rushing. I'd rather let the running backs do much of that, but the threat of Murray running will be huge. Changes how you have to play D to defend that possibility. It'll be fun to see him running against texas, if someone can actually catch him and lay down a hit one of two things happen: he gets up and goes on wiht his day, or he is out of the game and enter Kendall. Either way, win-win for me.
 
No doubt he will have to prove himself. I'd say that though he only attempted 21 passes last year, he did complete 18 of them and looked really good in the time he did have on the field last year. From what I can see, he's vastly improved since his freshman year.

I dont know if 5'10 is generous, but both OU and the A's measure him as 5'10 195. I dont know if they both stand to gain much from embellishing on that but i suppose it doesnt matter in the end. His height isnt gonna be changing so he's stuck with whatever it is. If he can play he can play, his height wont be a huge factor. his frame might be a much bigger factor than his height if it comes down to it. I dont think he'll have to run all that much next year, I bet he wont even have 500 yards rushing. I'd rather let the running backs do much of that, but the threat of Murray running will be huge. Changes how you have to play D to defend that possibility. It'll be fun to see him running against texas, if someone can actually catch him and lay down a hit one of two things happen: he gets up and goes on wiht his day, or he is out of the game and enter Kendall. Either way, win-win for me.

Come on, man. You seem like you follow college football. If you think that Murray is going to run around on college defenses like he did in high school, and especially against a good defense like Texas has, you're being blindly biased.
 
Come on, man. You seem like you follow college football. If you think that Murray is going to run around on college defenses like he did in high school, and especially against a good defense like Texas has, you're being blindly biased.
I think you answered your own question there.
 
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It's when I get feistier.
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Come on, man. You seem like you follow college football. If you think that Murray is going to run around on college defenses like he did in high school, and especially against a good defense like Texas has, you're being blindly biased.

Well first, I never once said that he would so if you thought that was my head, well, that's just not the case for me. The fact that he's gonna be the fastest guy on the field most saturdays, he'll get some runs in. But i don't in any way expect or even want him to try to run around like he did in high school- I'd like to see him tuck and run less than 10 times a game and let Anderson and Sermon do the bruising. They have too good of a line and too deep a rb corps for them to need him to run all that much. He can be more like Mayfield and use his athleticism to escape sacks and find the open man
 
Well first, I never once said that he would so if you thought that was my head, well, that's just not the case for me. The fact that he's gonna be the fastest guy on the field most saturdays, he'll get some runs in. But i don't in any way expect or even want him to try to run around like he did in high school- I'd like to see him tuck and run less than 10 times a game and let Anderson and Sermon do the bruising. They have too good of a line and too deep a rb corps for them to need him to run all that much. He can be more like Mayfield and use his athleticism to escape sacks and find the open man

I agree that he can use his legs to buy him some time and to run some, but he'll find out the hard way that running around in CFB won't work like it did in HS. I'm not convinced he'll be all that as a college QB. We shall see. He probably doesn't need to be all that great, as OU has a very good running game. They'll have to score a bunch of points with that swiss cheese defense though, lol.
 
I agree that he can use his legs to buy him some time and to run some, but he'll find out the hard way that running around in CFB won't work like it did in HS. I'm not convinced he'll be all that as a college QB. We shall see. He probably doesn't need to be all that great, as OU has a very good running game. They'll have to score a bunch of points with that swiss cheese defense though, lol.

I think he'll be good- i dont know how good but he looked really solid last year, gave me the impression that he's not the same player he was as a rookie. I would think that all his coaches and teammates would have been sharing their opinion on the viability of him running around. I have to think that Riley himself has had discussions about the strategy they'll use with him. Just the threat of him running though is going to be huge and will change how a defense has to defend that offense. I can see him not running all game, lulling the defense into backing off and that's when he strikes. who knows, I just know i like having weapons in the arsenal. And nah they dont need him to be great, they need him to not turn the ball over and to throw to the open wr. Do that and they'll be a top 5 offense again IMO. Yep they'll have to keep scoring because of the defense but i honestly believe they will be a much improved defense from last year. But most of their top talent are freshmen and sophomores so it will take a litlte bit of time for them to get to full form but mark my words OU will be better this year, at least 10% better in yardage given up and they'll be a top 2-3 big 12 defense by 2019.
 
Isn't nut job Mike Stoops gone? That guy needs some serious anger management counseling. I love to see his meltdowns. What a whacko, lol.
 
Yes he is quite a character. He will probably die of a heart attack on the field like his father. Or up in the booth, either way it'l be in a fit of bloody spittle infested rage
 
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