Only one Longhorn invited to NFL Combine.
- Thread starter BringBackRoyal
- Start date
Not great, but the last two seasons wouldn't have quite as bad with a real QB. Also think Strong's discipline would've helped JT stay out of trouble.
No, it's really not off the table. If Strong wins eight games, he likely keeps his job. Would he be keeping his job with eight wins if -- in addition to the ~60 out of 85 scholarship players who are true freshmen, RS freshmen, and true sophomores -- he had great talent in the senior (and junior) class? Hardly.
And JUCOs are rarely the magic bullet that people imagine. I would definitely have liked to pick up a good JUCO DT in the last two years, but "multiple" JUCOs means nothing close to the recent DL recruiting haul -- one that builds for the future much more than signing JUCOs -- would have happened.
Mostly agree, but not on Mykkele Thompson. No one talked about him after his junior year as someone that would ever have a chance at being drafted. His transformation into an actual DB his senior year was pretty stunning.
I agree with everything but the the idea that a softer transition was either practical or desirable, which is just speculation, and speculation for which I haven't seen any evidence in support (whether in this situation or in the world more broadly). I don't think Quandre Diggs was just making things up when he said during his senior year that there were still way too many guys on the roster who just didn't love football like someone on a Texas scholarship should love football. You can't necessarily make players who are hooked on the country club, low-accountability, minimal-oversight culture accept something completely unlike what they've known for two, three, and four years. Mack and his staff's laziness in evaluation in his later years wasn't only about poor talent evaluation -- the evaluation was comprehensively poor, and it meant offering plenty of players who were never known as high-character, relentlessly hardworking types before they got here.
The program culture by 2013 needed a total overhaul, and I don't think many will disagree. A leader who plans to remake an organizational culture cannot realistically introduce new expectations little by little. That smacks of inconsistency and wishy-washiness in standards, and it will often alienate even people who would be inclined to give you a chance if you were clear and firm in your demands from the outset. With the overhaul that was needed, there were always going to be players that didn't buy in. That was unavoidable. I'd much rather Charlie quickly alienate the ones that can't hack it than foster the view much more widely in the program that his expectations are shifting and unpredictable -- something that inevitably leads to accusations of favoritism and broader resentment.
That's highly unlikely, actually. Charlie, like most head coaches, was working 80 hours per week for Louisville up until he was offered the Texas job -- probably a lot more than 80 hours per week, actually, since it was the final month of recruiting season. Texas is a pinnacle job that you simply don't say no to when you're working at a place like Louisville. It's not like he had any real time before he got to Austin to do serious evaluation of the talent on the roster or careful assessment of why Texas was underperforming despite the highly ranked recruiting classes. He didn't really even have time to do that in great depth until after NSD, since his first order of business was quickly hiring a staff, trying to hold most of the 2014 class together, getting some of Mack's WTF offers to look elsewhere, and filling the remaining gaps as best he could in under four weeks.
This is a confusion of politics and reality. I also love that Charlie doesn't publicly complain about the condition of the roster and culture he inherited. Complaining never solves anything in such situations, anyway; you have to accept the situation as it is and deploy all your energies toward rectifying the problems you face. But let's not pretend that Charlie is unaware that he inherited a number of problems that have cost him and the program, or that observers not tasked with fixing those problems cannot reasonably comment on how poor decision-making from three, four, and five years ago has continued to exert influence over the shape of the present.
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Well then now I understand.
All the players that got better were because of Strong.
All the players that got worse or did not improve were because of Mack
All wins were because of Strong.
All losses because of Mack.
Works out pretty well for some views that all problems go to Mack and all fixes go to Strong.
It is beating a dead horse. Who Strong hired I thought was on Strong and not Mack. I don't want to hear the absolute nonsense that the "administration" made him hire who he hired...I could have thrown a rock at a coaching convention and 99 out of 100 hits would be better than Watson.....hell 99.9 would be better.
And I am not against Strong. I can bet I want him to succeed as bad or worse than a lot of guys that think he has not done a dang thing wrong. But damn people....Strong coached the eggs against Ark, ND, tcu and then he somehow got his team up for ou and they played their tails off and then he beat ksu who has had Texas' number in great years................then......Iowa F'n St......OMG..some of the teams we lost to you can say "they were better" but Strong owns Iowa St. and not Mack for dang sure....
For the life of me I can't see how Strong gets NONE of the blame for any of this from some of you guys. I am going to try and stay away from this same discussion, it irritates me that Strong gets a pass on......everything......well the usual comeback is "well I did say Watson was a mistake".....yeah...
I have lived in Va for several years now so maybe Texas has changed. We used to call it like it was whether we liked it or not. Poor ole Strong came into a program with NO Div 1 players, NO support from admin who would not let him hire good coaches (I guess now the admin will get blamed for making him switch out all the coaches the last 2 years).........
OK I am sold Texas could NOT have played ANY better against anyone.....Texas won ONLY the games it could have and it was only through the perfect coaching of this staff........All losses by Texas were because the other team was just that much better and because Mack ruined the players he came in contact with. The only thing to do is recruit until ALL Mack's guys are gone. Then Texas will be on the road to getting better. We only got to wait 2 more years then.
All the players that got better were because of Strong.
All the players that got worse or did not improve were because of Mack
All wins were because of Strong.
All losses because of Mack.
Works out pretty well for some views that all problems go to Mack and all fixes go to Strong.
It is beating a dead horse. Who Strong hired I thought was on Strong and not Mack. I don't want to hear the absolute nonsense that the "administration" made him hire who he hired...I could have thrown a rock at a coaching convention and 99 out of 100 hits would be better than Watson.....hell 99.9 would be better.
And I am not against Strong. I can bet I want him to succeed as bad or worse than a lot of guys that think he has not done a dang thing wrong. But damn people....Strong coached the eggs against Ark, ND, tcu and then he somehow got his team up for ou and they played their tails off and then he beat ksu who has had Texas' number in great years................then......Iowa F'n St......OMG..some of the teams we lost to you can say "they were better" but Strong owns Iowa St. and not Mack for dang sure....
For the life of me I can't see how Strong gets NONE of the blame for any of this from some of you guys. I am going to try and stay away from this same discussion, it irritates me that Strong gets a pass on......everything......well the usual comeback is "well I did say Watson was a mistake".....yeah...
I have lived in Va for several years now so maybe Texas has changed. We used to call it like it was whether we liked it or not. Poor ole Strong came into a program with NO Div 1 players, NO support from admin who would not let him hire good coaches (I guess now the admin will get blamed for making him switch out all the coaches the last 2 years).........
OK I am sold Texas could NOT have played ANY better against anyone.....Texas won ONLY the games it could have and it was only through the perfect coaching of this staff........All losses by Texas were because the other team was just that much better and because Mack ruined the players he came in contact with. The only thing to do is recruit until ALL Mack's guys are gone. Then Texas will be on the road to getting better. We only got to wait 2 more years then.
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swVA... I really don't know what your point is. I don't think anyone is saying Strong doesn't own his share of blame. When I say the offense has been in chaos, how does that seem to be an indictment of Mack? Jesus!....But dammit all man, when the team leadership right now is underclass men you might possibly be able to draw the conclusion that bad trouble existed when Strong got here.
Let's try this from another angle. .....Had Mack stayed for the last two years my opinion is that we would have been in such a deep hole we would have never gotten out. Mack went 5-7 one year removed from the Title game. THAT is crapping the bed with major talent!....ok...we lost to a poor Iowa State team...no doubt....that is on Strong. What are you expecting anyone to say?
Let's try this from another angle. .....Had Mack stayed for the last two years my opinion is that we would have been in such a deep hole we would have never gotten out. Mack went 5-7 one year removed from the Title game. THAT is crapping the bed with major talent!....ok...we lost to a poor Iowa State team...no doubt....that is on Strong. What are you expecting anyone to say?
You must have me confused with another poster....I never said you saying the offense was in chaos was an indictment of Mack. I don't know where that came from oldhorn.
My point is simple....Strong has done some things wrong since he got here. You say that you don't think anyone is saying Strong doesn't own his share of the blame? Read some more on here.....every time he is brought up as being wrong about something there is a qualifier..like Mack left him soft, terrible players....he hired watson because the administration did not support him.....lost to Iowa St. because the team had no leadership (they did against ou and Kstate back to back).....Every reason except Strong.
Mack going 5-7 in 2010 doesn't have anything to do with Strong getting his team ready to play. It was bad when Strong got here, I have never said it wasn't.....He got fired for a reason. I wanted Mack gone. I just have more respect for him than most on here. I think I have been crystal clear, a lot of people don't want to put any of the issues on Strong. It is like politics people are picking sides. I still like Strong but he needs to get his act together. More to having a good football than recruiting. I would think Mack taught EVERY Texas fan that.
swVA, I don't think anyone on this board has ever taken a position close to any of this -- that's what oldhorn is getting at. Literally everyone concedes that Strong has made consequential mistakes along the way.
You've raised plenty of solid points in other posts before, but I'm not inclined to do anything but quickly skim the rest of a long post when it starts out with a slew of straw-man arguments like this one does. And from my quick skim, it appears the rest of the post is no different.
I stand by what I said. You saying "literally everyone concedes that Strong has made consequential mistakes" is just not true.
Every time I see a "certain group" say Strong did something wrong it has the obligatory..........but, or, because.
You liked the post where it was said I will blame Mack as long as JT Barrett has eligibility...why? if you aren't blaming Mack? Maybe I am misunderstanding.
We disagree. It fine.
So who hasn't conceded that Charlie has made mistakes along the way?
It's not black or white. People are debating over the proportions of blame that lie with Mack and Charlie, but I've never seen anyone say that Charlie hasn't made a single misstep.
Because I think Mack's handling of QB and OL recruiting in his final years was categorically awful. That doesn't mean that I think Charlie couldn't possibly have done things any better.
I find it hard to believe he had no clue that Texas was in need of a QB. Before he took the job, I'd bet about 18,459 times it was brought up by fans of UL trying to keep him, fans of UT he'd run in to, his contemporary coaches he talked to, and even the people interviewing him.
He even stated he talked to coaches and took a good look at the team stats and depth chart before he signed on. Not to mention he does watch football and probably caught a UT game here and there in passing or even in viewing tape vs his common opponents. Bottom line, dude knew we needed a QB. And so did every male, female, and monkey that resides in the coastal US. And even if he didn't, he sure found out quickly.....and still.....we aren't sure what the answer is in year 3.
I never said he isn't aware that he didn't step in to a ready made NC squad. What I am saying is that he owns that this is HIS team. And the W's and L's are his. And to get better results, he simply needs to do better. Listen to his rant after the Arky bowl loss. Someone like Stoops would have gone full blame others mode and wait til next year and you knew this was the case with the roster I got kinda talk. Strong flat out owned that he and his team needed to prepare better.
Bottom line is I pretty much agree with you. But I wasn't commenting about what he thinks when he is alone in his office or saying his prayers at night. And I don't think there is a big disconnect between what he says and thinks. He gets that HE is coaching this team. These losses go on HIS record. And Mack Brown talk isn't going to help him win any games or even any fans. All it does is kick that can down the road.
"What he was walking into" entails far more than needing a QB, and the sort of review you described is exactly the kind of cursory review compared to comprehensive film evaluation that I said was the only thing he would have been able to do in the few days between contact and acceptance -- during which time he was still spending as much time as possible recruiting for Louisville, since he had no guarantee he'd be hired. (Also, we had no common opponents with UL during Strong's tenure there, so he would never have seen us on coaches' film. If he happened to catch a game of ours -- which is doubtful in itself -- it's unlikely he was doing a deep talent analysis.)
He obviously knew we needed a QB before 2014, which is why we were set to pick up Max Wittek. Then that dumbass gets himself kicked out of USC during his final semester and fails to graduate, and we're stuck with what we had in 2014. The first year comes down to sh*t luck. The fact that we're still dealing with QB issues in year three is not relevant to the particular point under discussion -- I've said repeatedly, like everyone else, that we should have brought in a transfer for 2015.
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I also don't really disagree with anything you've said here. I love that Charlie is not a whiny b*tch like Al Golden that publicly blames anyone and anything other than himself. The only way anyone ever gets better at anything in life is to take total responsibility for one's situation -- even if in actuality one isn't completely responsible -- because any energy spent on kvetching about what's already done and decided is wasted energy. And I'm very happy that Charlie understands this.
My sole point is that, for fans, there's no inconsistency between appreciating how Charlie conducts himself and acknowledging that not everything he has experienced here has been of his own doing (which is not at all to say that he hasn't caused himself some problems).
If I name someone will it change your mind? Never seen you be so defensive. You stated EVERYONE puts some blame on Strong. That is simply not true.
swVA, I'm not being any more defensive than anyone else in this thread. I'm just a bit irritated with the caricaturing of positions that are actually much more nuanced than you're giving them credit for, because I know you're more than capable of making much more thoughtful posts.
There's always an exception that proves the rule, so I probably should have said "virtually everyone" instead. It doesn't at all change my main gripe, though, which is that you're mischaracterizing the arguments that you disagree with in this thread. (But I'd still bet that whomever you would name would still, if pressed, acknowledge something that Charlie could have done better.)
Why is this so surprising that these coach don't know the talent available before hand?
List of coaches reportedly shocked at lack of talent once they got to Texas; Muschamp, Harsin, Searles, Bo Davis, etc. They too had the its Texas mindset.
As for QB, David Ash was statically a top twenty passer. How was Strong supposed to know that concussion would end his career and that the grad transfer QB he recruited, Max Wittek, wasn't going to graduate from USC?
List of coaches reportedly shocked at lack of talent once they got to Texas; Muschamp, Harsin, Searles, Bo Davis, etc. They too had the its Texas mindset.
As for QB, David Ash was statically a top twenty passer. How was Strong supposed to know that concussion would end his career and that the grad transfer QB he recruited, Max Wittek, wasn't going to graduate from USC?
ash was one of the dumbest mistakes of the strong era so far. He may have taken watsons advice but everybody here knew if ash took one more big hit he was done. As far as getting invited to the combine, so freakin what....how many underachieving longhorn players the last few years have made it in free agency, Quite a few.
This is beginning to get fun. Since we are playing the guessing game, I will put myself in the group that has given a pass to Strong for almost everything. I dont do that out of wearing the orange shaded glasses. If I had those I would have forgiven Mack....but I have been down on Mack (loudly down) since 2007.....and we had good teams in 2008 and 2009...I submit that Strong did NOT know how bad the situation was at Texas when he got here. yes,yes,yes...I am sure he was aware of how critical the QB situation was here at Texas, but I would be astonished to hear that he knew he would have to "gut" the team before playing a game.He might well have known that Ash was one hit away from never playing again, but I doubt it.I suspect that he was counting on his highly touted Soph QB somewhat and he knew he had an incoming frosh QB that was expected to do great things. He knew he had a good defense coming in and thought he had a good O line coming in. What he could not have forseen was his best OL guy getting kicked off the team and his OL anchor...the center, getting knocked out for the year first game.
Even still....no matter the obstacles to over come, we had receivers running open time after time, and no one to deliver the ball. The highly touted running backs were average at best.....
At any rate....it is what it is. We now have the foundation of a very good team that will develop into a very good team. I want to see results this year. I have said I expect 8 wins....I hope for 9 wins...and I dream of 10, but I know that is not likely.
Even still....no matter the obstacles to over come, we had receivers running open time after time, and no one to deliver the ball. The highly touted running backs were average at best.....
At any rate....it is what it is. We now have the foundation of a very good team that will develop into a very good team. I want to see results this year. I have said I expect 8 wins....I hope for 9 wins...and I dream of 10, but I know that is not likely.
or this year.... OU brought in a couple juco guys to fill gaps but for whatever reason it is beneath UT to bring guys in like that. I had hope that would have changed with Charlie but it looks like we are stuck with youth every year.
He tried. One went to UO and ND blocked the other. What other quality QB was available via either of those routes?
When you have to tear the remodel down to the studs and start over shoring up the foundation while you're at it is a good idea. Our remodel is no where close to OU's house were those things can fix a shorting coming or two. The Texas rebuild has way more issues than that. Mack did a fair amount of that in his last seasons and the house still needed to be gutted.
I disagree and the fact we had to play so many freshman last year is proof. Like I said, some guys believe it is beneath them to take a Juco while Snyder at KSU (the ones that kick our ass year in and year out) make a living out of using those guys.
Snyder can't get the guys Texas can, Shackelford, and has to do it that way. That is why KSU is only truly dangerous half the time if you're not scared to death.
Yes, all those freshmen playing last year were proof. Proof that the program required a down to the studs remodel. How much better would that team have been with your JuCo fantasies? 7-5? 8-4? I'll take the long term fix thank you.
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I just don't buy this. The program wasn't in total disarray with no talent.
No we weren't a player or two away from playing in NCAA playoffs, like OU. But we were a key player or two away from shoring up key areas and thus being much more competitive than two consecutive losing seasons.
As bad as Mack "left it", it was what an 8 win season with damn near the whole team returning other than Jeffcoat. Strong bet on Ash and also on Watson and lost. He could have gotten an grad xfer or juco (quite a few QBs had success upon moving teams that year and some sniffed around us) and it could have been a big deal. We'd be singing praises. Instead some are still blaming Mack for Strongs decision.
Granted it wasn't an ideal amount of time to search for a grad xfer, but he could have gotten one...and if you want to go there....why did he again eschew this option in winter #2? Not Macks fault.
There were more options than Wittik.
And we all knew Ashs career was in serious doubt. He wasn't even cleared to practice til right before the season started. And there was serious talk of him hanging it up before Charlie ever got here. Strong didn't need to be nostradamus to predict it. In fact, most of the most casual fans knew it was a hail mary that he'd make it thru the season.
You gotta have a backup plan in that case. You gotta address the most important position on the field when you come to a school and that position is a major question mark. It really is that simple. Mack created it, Strong is still working on fixing it. I think he ultimately will. But there have been other options.
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yea, we have been a long term fix since 2011.... and I will bet money people would have preferred a 7-5 and 8-4 to the shit we have had to endure the last 5 years. As of today, we still have no winning QB to start the season, so a few jucos here and there would have helped. If you have studied anything about football you would know I am right.
Quality JUCOs? I assume there were at least a few. I am not a good enough googler to see what JUCOs were available and how they've done.
Even if they weren't good enough to start, good enough to push Swoopes and Heard would have still helped the team. Off they top of my head that Jake H. kid that went aggy. He has shown in his limited time to be a much better passer than Swoopes or Heard.
I seem to remember some JUCO guys that could not qualify for Texas, but had no problem getting into other schools.which will remain unnamed. The QB not withstanding, what about Estelle and burgeron and the other guys that wouldnt put the bong down. Are you pissed at Charlie for running them off? What about Harrison?....Wasnt he the big JUCO get that could not be pried away from the buffet line? I need some help remembering that "talent" that we had 2 years ago on the O Line....for the life of me I cant remember their names. I am hearing that Mack did not leave us without talent, but dammit....I am so old I cant remember who they were.
Strong has his shortcomings, no doubt about it, but to blame him because he couldnt make chicken salad out of chickenshit is just wrong.
Strong has his shortcomings, no doubt about it, but to blame him because he couldnt make chicken salad out of chickenshit is just wrong.
