OT: Brexit

[swVAHorn]

One thing about the markets is that investors were betting beforehand that the "stay" vote would win. They made investments ahead of the vote based on that assumption. Now that the "stay" vote lost, their particular investments may not be feasible, and thus they have to change (sell) those investments. The point being, it may not be that leaving the EU in and of itself is "bad" for the economy/market. It may be that the investors simply have to readjust their investments that's causing the market to drop, rather than an actual weakness.

That actually makes sense to me. I don't understand markets very well at all. I read where polls were saying it was going to be a "stay" vote and they were shocked it was not. Wonder what type of investment would they be talking about? Like saying a car is going to have no tariff and then it does or something like that? I am assuming it has to do with trade deals?

 

[HornsRuleU]

eh, i'd wager general ignorance combined with political campaigning is causing it. the most googled term right now in UK is "what is the EU"

probably should be something they are well aware of before 72% of the UK voted

Exactly. The uneducated are particularly vulnerable to voting against their own interests. They're taken in by angry political rhetoric, even when there's little to no substance.

The demographics of those who chose to Brexit:

• The uneducated
• The poor
• Whites, particularly those who live in areas of low racial diversity
• The middle age and older
• The socially powerless
• Those without formal qualifications
• Conservatives

In other words, poor, ignorant, racists who happen to be white... not that there's anything wrong with that (i.e., being white, or poor, for that matter).

Main source:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

 

[topdecktiger]

That actually makes sense to me. I don't understand markets very well at all. I read where polls were saying it was going to be a "stay" vote and they were shocked it was not. Wonder what type of investment would they be talking about? Like saying a car is going to have no tariff and then it does or something like that? I am assuming it has to do with trade deals?

I'd assume so. Banking is probably also an issue. The EU now can't do anything about Britain's interest rates, for example. Plus, there might be more restrictions if you wanted to move money from Britain to the EU, or vice versa.

 

[topdecktiger]

Exactly. The uneducated are particularly vulnerable to voting against their own interests. They're taken in by angry political rhetoric, even when there's little to no substance.

The demographics of those who chose to Brexit:

• The uneducated
• The poor
• Whites, particularly those who live in areas of low racial diversity
• The middle age and older
• The socially powerless
• Those without formal qualifications
• Conservatives

In other words, poor, ignorant, racists who happen to be white... not that there's anything wrong with that (i.e., being white, or poor, for that matter).

Main source:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

The problem is, you are assuming that the "correct" vote was to remain in the EU. Sometimes "poor, ignorant whites" can actually be correct, and "smart, educated elites" can be incorrect.

 

[clob94]

Exactly. The uneducated are particularly vulnerable to voting against their own interests. They're taken in by angry political rhetoric, even when there's little to no substance.

The demographics of those who chose to Brexit:

• The uneducated
• The poor
• Whites, particularly those who live in areas of low racial diversity
• The middle age and older
• The socially powerless
• Those without formal qualifications
• Conservatives

In other words, poor, ignorant, racists who happen to be white... not that there's anything wrong with that (i.e., being white, or poor, for that matter).

Main source:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

The "coastal elites" and the "londonites" are the heavy supporters for staying. Living on the coast in Britain is expensive as fvck. As is living in many parts of London.

Swvahorn, yes, as I stated earlier, Britain makes up less than 3% of the USA's exports in our economy. That's a tiny blip on our radar. So if WE stopped sending 10% of our exports to them, it would have a negative effect of 3 X .10% or .3%. Yet, our market was down 4%. That don't make no sense bro!

What happened was, hedge fund managers and BIG banks bet the night before that the vote wouldn't pass. They bet on England staying. They did that because the media, Obama, Hillary, the British Prime Minister-- hell, almost everybody said it would. Then the dark horse won. If you took a little bit of money and bet that Britain would "leave", so to speak, you'd have won at 20-1 odds (just an example for arguments sake). Sooooo much money in OUR economy was wagered by these banks and hedge fund managers that Britain would stay, it had a huge negative impact on OUR market.

Basically, because our smart bankers bet wrong, it hurt YOUR 401k. Sucks right?

If YOU would have bet the OTHER way- for example if you'd have bet the British Pound would have dropped by 10%, you'd have made a FORTUNE. If you "shorted" the British Pound, some banker out there would have taken your "bet" and then given you HUGE odds in your favor because in HIS mind, he knew the vote wouldn't pass. When it did, he'd of had to pay you out his nose. When you go LONG on an investment, you're betting it goes UP in value. When you SHORT it, you're betting it goes DOWN in value.

The British Pound started out the day being worth $1.50 compared to our US dollar. It ended the day being worth $1.32 compared to our dollar. It LOST value. Even though it only lost 18 cents, you could have gotten HUGE betting odds in your favor if it dropped that far. I'm not going to do the math but, let's say 20-1. So if you'd have put 10 grand betting the pound went down that far, you'd have made 200,000 dollars.

THIS is why our market was effect so greatly. Everybody bet on the favorite to win, (Patriots vs Giants in the superbowl) and the Giants beat tom brady.

Make more sense?

 

[topdecktiger]

Here's what's actually funny about the analysis of the voters. One of the (what I will call) "criticisms" being made against the "leave" voters is that they are old. The "stay" voters tended to be younger, which is supposedly the "correct" position.

Well, recall a couple of years ago when Scotland had its referendum on leaving the UK. Back then, it was younger voters who were supporting the "leave" position, and they were being criticized for being "ignorant" and taking the "incorrect" decision.

 

[HornsRuleU]

The problem is, you are assuming that the "correct" vote was to remain in the EU. Sometimes "poor, ignorant whites" can actually be correct, and "smart, educated elites" can be incorrect.

The bold part is almost true, but not quite. I have solid basis for believing (not assuming):

• Democracy fails without informed voters ["The cornerstone of democracy (is) an educated electorate." Thomas Jefferson]
• British "Leave" voters were largely uninformed
• Wily political operatives & parties prey on the poorly informed
• When wrong on the data, political parties must first convince the people not to trust science, education, or the mass media. Ignore the facts.
• Step two is to turn those people toward biased sources for "knowledge"; essentially, you make conspiracy nuts out of them
• Step three is to constantly distract the people with irrelevant, salacious things, particularly if you can get them angry about it, at least until they vote
• There is no step four, since if you solve the problem (real or supposed), they no longer need to keep voting for you
• Historically, causes embraced by the hateful, angry and/or stupid mob lead almost universally to tragic or merely poor results
• To your point, yes, I do believe that leaving the E.U. will harm the U.K., and certainly Europe, and possibly the world, at least for awhile
• Embracing diversity is a wise, good thing
• Racism and sexism are evil
• Xenophobia is akin to racism, but for ultra-nationalists
• All the -isms are merely forms of prejudice
• Prejudice means making decisions without having the facts, based on appearance and hype

And so we end back up at the first point.

The rest of your post has problems, too. The ignorant masses are rarely correct about much, except in understanding their own physical needs. As soon as they begin to satisfy them, they get into trouble. Knowledge > Ignorance.

We agree that elites aren't always right. The top 0.01% of the rich are a super-duper-special interest group, so all this rot about Trump not being beholden to special interests is idiotic. He is an elite, financially, despite not being as rich as he claims.

The answer is not to support any one party, or certainly any one candidate, but to follow the data. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes famously said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Once you find the truth, no matter how inconvenient, you must follow it, even if it means your convictions are split, and some of your friends desert you.

 

[swVAHorn]

The "coastal elites" and the "londonites" are the heavy supporters for staying. Living on the coast in Britain is expensive as fvck. As is living in many parts of London.

Swvahorn, yes, as I stated earlier, Britain makes up less than 3% of the USA's exports in our economy. That's a tiny blip on our radar. So if WE stopped sending 10% of our exports to them, it would have a negative effect of 3 X .10% or .3%. Yet, our market was down 4%. That don't make no sense bro!

What happened was, hedge fund managers and BIG banks bet the night before that the vote wouldn't pass. They bet on England staying. They did that because the media, Obama, Hillary, the British Prime Minister-- hell, almost everybody said it would. Then the dark horse won. If you took a little bit of money and bet that Britain would "leave", so to speak, you'd have won at 20-1 odds (just an example for arguments sake). Sooooo much money in OUR economy was wagered by these banks and hedge fund managers that Britain would stay, it had a huge negative impact on OUR market.

Basically, because our smart bankers bet wrong, it hurt YOUR 401k. Sucks right?

If YOU would have bet the OTHER way- for example if you'd have bet the British Pound would have dropped by 10%, you'd have made a FORTUNE. If you "shorted" the British Pound, some banker out there would have taken your "bet" and then given you HUGE odds in your favor because in HIS mind, he knew the vote wouldn't pass. When it did, he'd of had to pay you out his nose. When you go LONG on an investment, you're betting it goes UP in value. When you SHORT it, you're betting it goes DOWN in value.

The British Pound started out the day being worth $1.50 compared to our US dollar. It ended the day being worth $1.32 compared to our dollar. It LOST value. Even though it only lost 18 cents, you could have gotten HUGE betting odds in your favor if it dropped that far. I'm not going to do the math but, let's say 20-1. So if you'd have put 10 grand betting the pound went down that far, you'd have made 200,000 dollars.

THIS is why our market was effect so greatly. Everybody bet on the favorite to win, (Patriots vs Giants in the superbowl) and the Giants beat tom brady.

Make more sense?

Between you and topdecktiger I am going to learn a little about how markets work! Thanks. This is a subject I readily admit I don't know much about. Markets are like talking Chinese to me sometimes but the way you guys did it made sense. My 401k did take a beating.

 

[swVAHorn]

I know where all this is going.

 

[topdecktiger]

The bold part is almost true, but not quite. I have solid basis for believing (not assuming):

• Democracy fails without informed voters ["The cornerstone of democracy (is) an educated electorate." Thomas Jefferson]
• British "Leave" voters were largely uninformed
• Wily political operatives & parties prey on the poorly informed
• When wrong on the data, political parties must first convince the people not to trust science, education, or the mass media. Ignore the facts.
• Step two is to turn those people toward biased sources for "knowledge"; essentially, you make conspiracy nuts out of them
• Step three is to constantly distract the people with irrelevant, salacious things, particularly if you can get them angry about it, at least until they vote
• There is no step four, since if you solve the problem (real or supposed), they no longer need to keep voting for you
• Historically, causes embraced by the hateful, angry and/or stupid mob lead almost universally to tragic or merely poor results
• To your point, yes, I do believe that leaving the E.U. will harm the U.K., and certainly Europe, and possibly the world, at least for awhile
• Embracing diversity is a wise, good thing
• Racism and sexism are evil
• Xenophobia is akin to racism, but for ultra-nationalists
• All the -isms are merely forms of prejudice
• Prejudice means making decisions without having the facts, based on appearance and hype

And so we end back up at the first point.

The rest of your post has problems, too. The ignorant masses are rarely correct about much, except in understanding their own physical needs. As soon as they begin to satisfy them, they get into trouble. Knowledge > Ignorance.

We agree that elites aren't always right. The top 0.01% of the rich are a super-duper-special interest group, so all this rot about Trump not being beholden to special interests is idiotic. He is an elite, financially, despite not being as rich as he claims.

The answer is not to support any one party, or certainly any one candidate, but to follow the data. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes famously said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Once you find the truth, no matter how inconvenient, you must follow it, even if it means your convictions are split, and some of your friends desert you.

This is a perfect example of a self-serving analysis. You again make the false assumption that remaining in the EU was the "correct" position. You don't actually have any hard evidence (no one does) that remaining in the EU is more beneficial to Britain. It's purely your opinion. Further, you opinion is heavily influenced by emotional issues (such as racism). There are two problems there. 1) You ascribe racism to the "leave" voters without any substantial evidence. It's simply your opinion you are projecting as fact. 2) You ignore several other reasons, such as economic ones, that have been discussed frequently both here and in the media at large.

You also fail to prove that the "leave" voters are uninformed. Your claim for this rests on the fact that "What is the EU" and "What happens if we leave the EU" were the top searches on Google. You make the assumption that these searches were done by "leave" voters. You actually have no evidence whether it was "leave" voters searching this, or "stay" voters. "What happens if we leave the EU" is just as likely to be searched by "stay" voters after the vote was taken, particularly since they are obviously concerned about the ramifications.

Bottom line, your "analysis" is nothing of the sort. It's simply you trying to reinforce your previously held beliefs. True analysis consists of looking at a situation objectively and considering all possibilities, not just the ones you want to believe. You clearly have not do so.

 

[clob94]

Blown away......... every LSU grad I know just knows how to boil crawfish and gig frogs.

Kudos to you topdeck.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

It seems you picked a side. I don't know enough to form one. I just find things interesting. I do know there is more to it than what you just said clob. If it was that easy why was this close? Why are people regretting it? Why were they in the EU to begin with? If what u said is all it is then it's not a hard decision at all. If u are right then hellfire why would anyone vote to stay?

Why would anyone vote to stay? Maybe Political agendas, maybe they have a stake in staying and will lose money or power by leaving.

The "idea" of the EU was a novel one waaaaaaay back when. But when you look around after decades and realize you're doing the majority of the heavy lifting, why keep lifting?

You just described Socialism to a tee.

But not the EU and not Antarctica---

With the way things are going, Antarctica is looking really good right now.

There's no right answer to whether it's a good or bad thing. Nobody knows how it's actually going to work out. The reason a majority of Brits voted for it is that they would simply rather have their fate in their own hands, rather than in the hands of others. Whether or not that is actually more successful isn't the issue. It's just a mindset. If it was me, I would probably agree. I would rather succeed or fail on my own merit, instead of being dependent on someone else.

Socialist would never understand this, they don't want to make such a decision, they would rather have these decisions made for them.

Makes sense what you're saying. Why are the markets going nuts? If it is better for the world economy why has it gone nuts? Other countries are probably going to do the same thing (and if you are right they should) then why the turmoil? Every country does its own thing right? Why are the markets concerned? I can't understand why a country would give up its sovereignty. ??

You can't base your opinion on if something was right or wrong based on what the markets do. The markets can act negatively to the best of news. Emotion, plays too big a part in how the markets react to news, be it good or bad.

Exactly. The uneducated are particularly vulnerable to voting against their own interests. They're taken in by angry political rhetoric, even when there's little to no substance.

The demographics of those who chose to Brexit:

• The uneducated
• The poor
• Whites, particularly those who live in areas of low racial diversity
• The middle age and older
• The socially powerless
• Those without formal qualifications
• Conservatives

In other words, poor, ignorant, racists who happen to be white... not that there's anything wrong with that (i.e., being white, or poor, for that matter).

Main source:
http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

Honestly you just described the Democratic party to a tee. Seriously, Poor, uneducated, socially powerless. That is the base that got Obama elected for two terms.

What happened was, hedge fund managers and BIG banks bet the night before that the vote wouldn't pass. They bet on England staying. They did that because the media, Obama, Hillary, the British Prime Minister-- hell, almost everybody said it would. Then the dark horse won. If you took a little bit of money and bet that Britain would "leave", so to speak, you'd have won at 20-1 odds (just an example for arguments sake). Sooooo much money in OUR economy was wagered by these banks and hedge fund managers that Britain would stay, it had a huge negative impact on OUR market.

I hate Derivatives, they are going to destroy the world economy.

The bold part is almost true, but not quite. I have solid basis for believing (not assuming):

• Democracy fails without informed voters ["The cornerstone of democracy (is) an educated electorate." Thomas Jefferson]
• British "Leave" voters were largely uninformed
• Wily political operatives & parties prey on the poorly informed
• When wrong on the data, political parties must first convince the people not to trust science, education, or the mass media. Ignore the facts.
• Step two is to turn those people toward biased sources for "knowledge"; essentially, you make conspiracy nuts out of them
• Step three is to constantly distract the people with irrelevant, salacious things, particularly if you can get them angry about it, at least until they vote
• There is no step four, since if you solve the problem (real or supposed), they no longer need to keep voting for you
• Historically, causes embraced by the hateful, angry and/or stupid mob lead almost universally to tragic or merely poor results
• To your point, yes, I do believe that leaving the E.U. will harm the U.K., and certainly Europe, and possibly the world, at least for awhile
• Embracing diversity is a wise, good thing
• Racism and sexism are evil
• Xenophobia is akin to racism, but for ultra-nationalists
• All the -isms are merely forms of prejudice
• Prejudice means making decisions without having the facts, based on appearance and hype

And so we end back up at the first point.

The rest of your post has problems, too. The ignorant masses are rarely correct about much, except in understanding their own physical needs. As soon as they begin to satisfy them, they get into trouble. Knowledge > Ignorance.

We agree that elites aren't always right. The top 0.01% of the rich are a super-duper-special interest group, so all this rot about Trump not being beholden to special interests is idiotic. He is an elite, financially, despite not being as rich as he claims.

The answer is not to support any one party, or certainly any one candidate, but to follow the data. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes famously said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Once you find the truth, no matter how inconvenient, you must follow it, even if it means your convictions are split, and some of your friends desert you.

There is so much wrong with this, I can't find a place to begin.

If the problem is uneducated voters, then why did we give them the right to vote in the first place? And to be honest, I'm not saying you are wrong, I have a lot of respect for Thomas Jefferson, I have studied his writing for many years. People younger than 18 years of age are denied the right to vote because they don't have the mental maturity to make this decision, yet we seem to think uneducated people do.

If the truth is that the "leave" voters were uneducated, then I would equally contend that the vast majority of the democrat party is also extremely uneducated.

The vast majority of people vote according to their wallets not what someone is saying in the media. A truly educated person would listen to the media and then question who is reporting and what their agenda is. Most of us know MSN and CNN are largely controlled by the political left, and they slant everything they report to that direction. The uneducated don't understand this and will follow it like sheep to the slaughter house. Their only thought is, it was said on TV so it must be true.

I will not argue with your 4 step process, both sides use it to further their cause. In the US, the Democrats use it much more effectively than Republicans do, that is why they have won the last two elections.

Embracing diversity is good, unless you are a sheep embracing wolves, then it tends to backfire when the wolves begin eating the sheep.

The one Ism that is going to destroy our world is Liberalism. You see racism does exist, as does sexism and homophobia and all those other isms, yet it's the Liberals who think that if you toss everyone in together that you will get harmony out of it. No you just created a keg of explosives and one spark will set it off. That is what is happening in Europe now.

Your definition of Prejudice is wrong. I looked it up in the dictionary also and it is wrong there as well.

You see I know lots and lots of people who are prejudice/racist directly due to experiences they have had with people from another race. I know blacks who absolutely hate white people because of experiences they had with white people growing up. You see experiences can not only feed a prejudice, but also create them as well.

 

[clob94]

It's refreshing to have a discussion of this nature without it crumbling into personal attacks and drivel. You do realize that MM has probably been watching this thread, just waiting for someone to come unhinged and thankfully, it hasn't happened. If the rest of the world acted as such, we'd get a whole lot more done for mankind.

 

[HornsRuleU]

Believe what you want to believe about me and my analysis or opinions or whatever you want to call it.

The people who voted for leaving were largely motivated by the refugee situation, and the increasing ethnic diversity of Great Britain. The demographics of the leave voters showed that they were predominantly white, and also (a separate issue) predominantly from mostly-single-race districts of the U.K.

Check the link I provided, instead of just assuming a lot about me.

"When wrong on the data, political parties must first convince the people not to trust science, education, or the mass media. Ignore the facts."

 

[swVAHorn]

I admit it is hard for me to believe that EVERY media outlet is lying or slanting the truth. Do they all get in a backroom and plan what they are going to say? Is there a leftwing media conspiracy and a rightwing media conspiracy? Or just the one you disagree with?

I know that when politicians run on people's emotions rather than sound policy it is dangerous. Many millions have died because of this.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Believe what you want to believe about me and my analysis or opinions or whatever you want to call it.

The people who voted for leaving were largely motivated by the refugee situation, and the increasing ethnic diversity of Great Britain. The demographics of the leave voters showed that they were predominantly white, and also (a separate issue) predominantly from mostly-single-race districts of the U.K.

Check the link I provided, instead of just assuming a lot about me.

"When wrong on the data, political parties must first convince the people not to trust science, education, or the mass media. Ignore the facts."

I personally don't consider it wrong to want greater control over your borders. It isn't racist to demand security. It isn't hard to see what happened in Belgium, France and even Orlando and say enough is enough. Security has been non-existent. But I'm sure the vote went the way it did because all those white people are racist.

I admit it is hard for me to believe that EVERY media outlet is lying or slanting the truth. Do they all get in a backroom and plan what they are going to say? Is there a leftwing media conspiracy and a rightwing media conspiracy? Or just the one you disagree with?

I know that when politicians run on people's emotions rather than sound policy it is dangerous. Many millions have died because of this.

It's not a conspiracy, its a fact. Just like Democrats will accuse of Fox news of being right wing, we accuse ABC, CNN, and MSNBC of being very left wing.

Or should I say reporting the news with a left or right slant.

 

[swVAHorn]

The Boris Johnson guy who is after the PM job is saying in a paper (Telegraph) that UK people will be able to freely travel Europe to work or settle down and have access to the EU single market. Will EU let them do this? Have freedoms they had before but other EU countries do not have freedom to do it in the UK?

 

[clob94]

The Boris Johnson guy who is after the PM job is saying in a paper (Telegraph) that UK people will be able to freely travel Europe to work or settle down and have access to the EU single market. Will EU let them do this? Have freedoms they had before but other EU countries do not have freedom to do it in the UK?

This is a poker match. In 2015 the HEAD of the EU said, "personally, Britain really doesn't need to EU like other countries do....". That's Jean-Claude Junker......the big dog. Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world........ why would the EU just STOP selling things to them? Why cut you're own throat? The EU will stomp their foot and posture for a bit but ultimately they realize that they can't completely lose Britain as a trading partner. Sooooo, after the foot stomping is over, the EU will give into certain British demands or caveats and everything will be fine.

BTW, we are still talking about a country that helped Europe win not one, but TWO world wars- is home to two of the wealthiest women in the world- the most expensive sports team in the world- and ask yourself this--- if the EU was such a STRONG organization, why is Britain leaving such an earth shattering event? If Luxembourg would have left do you think everyone would be freaking out? Noooooo. So perhaps the EU isn't such a strong organization after all...... and if I'm Britain, why would I want to continue to have my wagon hitched to such a weak partner?

 

[clob94]

What looks like is going to happen is the global economic movement (socialist movement) that is backed by big banks and big media, are going to do their best to shame Britain into having another vote to reverse this. Imagine that--- A vote was held, 75% of people voted, the vote passed, but special interest groups are going to try and get ANOTHER vote to undo the will of the British people and reverse this.

Totally, fvcking, disgusting!

 

[oldschoolcat]

More importantly clob, how long to wait before the buy order? I've been out of the market for a while and looking for a good time to get back in.

 

[lupar_horns]

Why would anyone vote to stay? Maybe Political agendas, maybe they have a stake in staying and will lose money or power by leaving.



You just described Socialism to a tee.



With the way things are going, Antarctica is looking really good right now.



Socialist would never understand this, they don't want to make such a decision, they would rather have these decisions made for them.



You can't base your opinion on if something was right or wrong based on what the markets do. The markets can act negatively to the best of news. Emotion, plays too big a part in how the markets react to news, be it good or bad.



Honestly you just described the Democratic party to a tee. Seriously, Poor, uneducated, socially powerless. That is the base that got Obama elected for two terms.



I hate Derivatives, they are going to destroy the world economy.



There is so much wrong with this, I can't find a place to begin.

If the problem is uneducated voters, then why did we give them the right to vote in the first place? And to be honest, I'm not saying you are wrong, I have a lot of respect for Thomas Jefferson, I have studied his writing for many years. People younger than 18 years of age are denied the right to vote because they don't have the mental maturity to make this decision, yet we seem to think uneducated people do.

If the truth is that the "leave" voters were uneducated, then I would equally contend that the vast majority of the democrat party is also extremely uneducated.

The vast majority of people vote according to their wallets not what someone is saying in the media. A truly educated person would listen to the media and then question who is reporting and what their agenda is. Most of us know MSN and CNN are largely controlled by the political left, and they slant everything they report to that direction. The uneducated don't understand this and will follow it like sheep to the slaughter house. Their only thought is, it was said on TV so it must be true.

I will not argue with your 4 step process, both sides use it to further their cause. In the US, the Democrats use it much more effectively than Republicans do, that is why they have won the last two elections.

Embracing diversity is good, unless you are a sheep embracing wolves, then it tends to backfire when the wolves begin eating the sheep.

The one Ism that is going to destroy our world is Liberalism. You see racism does exist, as does sexism and homophobia and all those other isms, yet it's the Liberals who think that if you toss everyone in together that you will get harmony out of it. No you just created a keg of explosives and one spark will set it off. That is what is happening in Europe now.

Your definition of Prejudice is wrong. I looked it up in the dictionary also and it is wrong there as well.

You see I know lots and lots of people who are prejudice/racist directly due to experiences they have had with people from another race. I know blacks who absolutely hate white people because of experiences they had with white people growing up. You see experiences can not only feed a prejudice, but also create them as well.

foxbot alert..drivel alert..assumption alert...broad strokes alert...

All political systems have pro's and con's, especially capitalism.

You are calling the Dem party, and I quote: "Poor, uneducated, socially powerless. That is the base that got Obama elected for two terms." If you believe this crap, you are a moron, period. How the gop gets the poor, uneducated, white, trailer trash to vote for them is beyond me (see how that works). There are not enough poor, uneducated, confederate, tea bagger, white trash, trailer park whites to vote for the gop which is why they cannot win an election that isn't gerrymandered (see how that works)..moron.

So what I read from this entire rant is that you are a white, racist tea bagger...and a moron...and this is coming from someone who is very liberal...**brushes broadly about an opinion piece**

 

[oldschoolcat]

Funny how defensive libs get when you call them socialists. For the record, American liberals aren't socialists. They just wish they were.

 

[swVAHorn]

What looks like is going to happen is the global economic movement (socialist movement) that is backed by big banks and big media, are going to do their best to shame Britain into having another vote to reverse this. Imagine that--- A vote was held, 75% of people voted, the vote passed, but special interest groups are going to try and get ANOTHER vote to undo the will of the British people and reverse this.

Totally, fvcking, disgusting!

I disagree with you 100% that "big banks" are behind a worldwide socialist movement. I have hard time understanding why the "big media" would be behind a socialist movement. How would that help the banks? Or the media for that matter? Another vote will not "undo" the will of the people because whatever the people vote or how many times they vote is by definition "the will of the people ".

 

[swVAHorn]

Funny how defensive libs get when you call them socialists. For the record, American liberals aren't socialists. They just wish they were.

Yeah if America could just be far right wingers then all problems would be over. Heaven on Earth. Those damn sorry ass half of Americans ruin it for everyone.

 

[oldschoolcat]

Yeah if America could just be fa right wingers then all problems would be over. Heaven on Earth. Those damn sorry ass half of Americans ruin it for everyone.

I think there's a debate term for what you just did. Not sure what it is called....but it's similar to when you want to reduce taxes and those who favor more taxes use every essential program such as fire, police, etc as the things that will get cut. Straw man argument, but different. Like when our fearless leader closed the national parks instead of all of the subsidies to failing programs.

Nobody said the right wingers had the correct answers. And just because I think liberal plans for the country are awful it doesn't make me a right winger. It makes me someone who is paying attention.

 

[swVAHorn]

I think there's a debate term for what you just did. Not sure what it is called....but it's similar to when you want to reduce taxes and those who favor more taxes use every essential program such as fire, police, etc as the things that will get cut. Straw man argument, but different. Like when our fearless leader closed the national parks instead of all of the subsidies to failing programs.

Nobody said the right wingers had the correct answers. And just because I think liberal plans for the country are awful it doesn't make me a right winger. It makes me someone who is paying attention.

Do you have 1 good thing to say about the democratic party platform? Have you ever voted for a democrat? I would bet the house you have not. I have and will vote for both parties as long as the person I am voting for is closer to my position. I can say good things about the dems and republicans and I do. I don't think it is an all or nothing game like some of you do. It seems I am always taking up for the dems on here because of the people who are like you and the "fearless leader" crap. If something Obama does works then it is great for ALL Americans!! If he does something bad it is bad for ALL Americans!! I am sick of the ignorant people saying he is a king, dictator and on and on. It is stupid. College educated people saying obama is not American...the newspaper article in 1960 whatever was a plant because they knew he would one day become president.....Educated people saying obama is "taking over Texas".....it boggles the mind. To me it is people who want to believe it and you can't prove to them any different. The one thing I am seeing more and more is the right has shifted Waaayyy to the right......running Trump for President is a slap in the face to Reagan republicans....Reagan would have been too moderate for today's GOP. You tell other people they are having a strawman argument WHILE you are doing the same damn thing. Look in the mirror.

 

[Belldozer1]

What looks like is going to happen is the global economic movement (socialist movement) that is backed by big banks and big media, are going to do their best to shame Britain into having another vote to reverse this. Imagine that--- A vote was held, 75% of people voted, the vote passed, but special interest groups are going to try and get ANOTHER vote to undo the will of the British people and reverse this.

Totally, fvcking, disgusting!

Reminds me of the GOP mentality lately. They want to tell the people what's best for them, God forbid allowing people's vote to actually serve as the will of the people.

 

[clob94]

I disagree with you 100% that "big banks" are behind a worldwide socialist movement. I have hard time understanding why the "big media" would be behind a socialist movement. How would that help the banks? Or the media for that matter? Another vote will not "undo" the will of the people because whatever the people vote or how many times they vote is by definition "the will of the people ".

Ok--- here's how the banks profit. Every week money moves from England to the EU, billions by the way, and money moves from Europe into england. Like clockwork. Every single week you've got billions of dollars changing back and forth into different currency. Well, they don't move that money in wheel barrels hoss. Banks move it. And banks charge fees for converting it. Now a SMART banker knows that if he's converting 1 billion euros to British Pound, if he times it right, he can move the pound in his favor and make a 1 penny gain-- we'll call that a 1% gain. Well remember, there's still British pounds to be converted over to euros as well. Even if the bank just nets a 1% gain once a week on a billion euro-- that's a million a week in profit bro--- combine that with the fee the bank charges to convert it---- and now you have an entire honey pot that is threatened by Brexit.

Now, you think big banks aren't going to be a little pissed about losing that income?

SWVAHORN let me ask you this--- you know who GE I'm sure. They make everything, light bulbs to jet engines right?

What do you think the most profitable part of GE is?

Look it up if you want to, but I'm curious if you could guess off the top of your head.....

 

[oldschoolcat]

Dude...mix in a paragraph. Read my posts in a jovial happy tone. No hate here.

2016 Democrat Platform

Ambitious and Progressive Jobs Plan: Governments do not create jobs. They only redistribute wealth. Disagree.

Increasing the Minimum Wage: Horrible Idea. Increases unemployment for low wage employees. Disagree

Support for Public Education: Get government OUT of education. Disagree.

Abolishing the Death Penalty: Disagree

Trade: Punt. Don't know enough about it to comment.

Looking out for Working People/The Earned Income Tax Credit: How can you get a tax credit when you pay none? That's your credit. Disagree

Wall Street Reform: Laughable. This will never happen. Wall Street OWNS the democrat party.

Multi-Millionaire Surtax: See "Wall Street Reform". This is a bone for the rabble who thinks by sticking it to the "rich" their lives will be better. Disagree

Expand Social Security: Government has shredded this. Needs to be privatized and get it separated from votes. Disagree.

Immigration: Needs work. But immigration needs to be closed temporarily to get our sh!t together. Disagree

Universal Healthcare: Awful idea. We all knew it would be....and it has proven itself to be. Get government OUT. Disagree.

Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations: What exactly do you propose? This is pandering. Punt.

Climate Change and Clean Energy: Great concept. Unfortunately the solution is more taxes on producers. Again. Disagree.

Reproductive Rights: Never met an abortion they ever disliked. Disagree.

Criminal Justice Reform: Agree 100%. We have become a nation of jailers. AGREE

Marijuana: Agree 100%. I don't partake.....but it's ridiculous that it is illegal. See "Criminal Justice Reform" above.

 

[swVAHorn]

Ok--- here's how the banks profit. Every week money moves from England to the EU, billions by the way, and money moves from Europe into england. Like clockwork. Every single week you've got billions of dollars changing back and forth into different currency. Well, they don't move that money in wheel barrels hoss. Banks move it. And banks charge fees for converting it. Now a SMART banker knows that if he's converting 1 billion euros to British Pound, if he times it right, he can move the pound in his favor and make a 1 penny gain-- we'll call that a 1% gain. Well remember, there's still British pounds to be converted over to euros as well. Even if the bank just nets a 1% gain once a week on a billion euro-- that's a million a week in profit bro--- combine that with the fee the bank charges to convert it---- and now you have an entire honey pot that is threatened by Brexit.

Now, you think big banks aren't going to be a little pissed about losing that income?

SWVAHORN let me ask you this--- you know who GE I'm sure. They make everything, light bulbs to jet engines right?

What do you think the most profitable part of GE is?

Look it up if you want to, but I'm curious if you could guess off the top of your head.....

Is GE most profitable in insurance? I don't know really clob. Wouldn't the banks still have to convert pounds to euros and the other way around even with the leave vote? I really don't know so I hope you don't think I am arguing for something. I think I remember you studied finance didn't you? I am probably kindergarden level on economics so I appreciate the breakdowns you give.

Looked it up...GE is most profitable in power and water.

 

[swVAHorn]

Dude...mix in a paragraph. Read my posts in a jovial happy tone. No hate here.

2016 Democrat Platform

Ambitious and Progressive Jobs Plan: Governments do not create jobs. They only redistribute wealth. Disagree.

Increasing the Minimum Wage: Horrible Idea. Increases unemployment for low wage employees. Disagree

Support for Public Education: Get government OUT of education. Disagree.

Abolishing the Death Penalty: Disagree

Trade: Punt. Don't know enough about it to comment.

Looking out for Working People/The Earned Income Tax Credit: How can you get a tax credit when you pay none? That's your credit. Disagree

Wall Street Reform: Laughable. This will never happen. Wall Street OWNS the democrat party.

Multi-Millionaire Surtax: See "Wall Street Reform". This is a bone for the rabble who thinks by sticking it to the "rich" their lives will be better. Disagree

Expand Social Security: Government has shredded this. Needs to be privatized and get it separated from votes. Disagree.

Immigration: Needs work. But immigration needs to be closed temporarily to get our sh!t together. Disagree

Universal Healthcare: Awful idea. We all knew it would be....and it has proven itself to be. Get government OUT. Disagree.

Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations: What exactly do you propose? This is pandering. Punt.

Climate Change and Clean Energy: Great concept. Unfortunately the solution is more taxes on producers. Again. Disagree.

Reproductive Rights: Never met an abortion they ever disliked. Disagree.

Criminal Justice Reform: Agree 100%. We have become a nation of jailers. AGREE

Marijuana: Agree 100%. I don't partake.....but it's ridiculous that it is illegal. See "Criminal Justice Reform" above.

Feel free not to read anything I post. You are a liar and a fake. Can't stand either one.

newsflash for you...The rich OWN both parties to a point. One reason why I want to have campaign finance reform.

 

[Belldozer1]

Do you have 1 good thing to say about the democratic party platform? Have you ever voted for a democrat? I would bet the house you have not. I have and will vote for both parties as long as the person I am voting for is closer to my position. I can say good things about the dems and republicans and I do. I don't think it is an all or nothing game like some of you do. It seems I am always taking up for the dems on here because of the people who are like you and the "fearless leader" crap. If something Obama does works then it is great for ALL Americans!! If he does something bad it is bad for ALL Americans!! I am sick of the ignorant people saying he is a king, dictator and on and on. It is stupid. College educated people saying obama is not American...the newspaper article in 1960 whatever was a plant because they knew he would one day become president.....Educated people saying obama is "taking over Texas".....it boggles the mind. To me it is people who want to believe it and you can't prove to them any different. The one thing I am seeing more and more is the right has shifted Waaayyy to the right......running Trump for President is a slap in the face to Reagan republicans....Reagan would have been too moderate for today's GOP. You tell other people they are having a strawman argument WHILE you are doing the same damn thing. Look in the mirror.

You just took full retard to a whole new stratosphere.

 

[oldschoolcat]

Feel free not to read anything I post. You are a liar and a fake. Can't stand either one.

newsflash for you...The rich OWN both parties to a point. One reason why I want to have campaign finance reform.

Liar and a fake. Nice. You're upholding the stereotype. I like you dude....one of the more reasonable posters on here.

I'm telling you I disagree with most of what I get from right and left. They're both a variation of the same thing. Taking money to give to their buddies to get re-elected. I could do the same for the Republican party, and it would look similar.

Add term limits and we would be onto something.

 

[swVAHorn]

Liar and a fake. Nice. You're upholding the stereotype. I like you dude....one of the more reasonable posters on here.

I'm telling you I disagree with most of what I get from right and left. They're both a variation of the same thing. Taking money to give to their buddies to get re-elected. I could do the same for the Republican party, and it would look similar.

Add term limits and we would be onto something.

I meant that in terms of you saying "Funny how defensive libs get when you call them socialists. For the record, American liberals aren't socialists. They just wish they were.".....it was you who generalized an entire group.......you tore into 1 whole side like they were the problem and all of them think exactly alike.....so I put you in the same camp you put them in......I don't disagree with "most" of both sides. I agree with lots of issues on both side as a matter of fact.

The thing is you can vote for X candidate even though you are mostly in the Y camp because X is closer to you than X is...make sense? The spectrum is wide. there are dems closer to repubs and vice versa than to the far left and right of their own party.

 

[oldschoolcat]

The thing is you can vote for X candidate even though you are mostly in the Y camp because X is closer to you than X is...make sense? The spectrum is wide. there are dems closer to repubs and vice versa than to the far left and right of their own party.

Unfortunately in the current system if you are an outlier from the party....trying to do what the voters want.... (think Ted Cruz, Rand Paul) you are ostracized from the "party" and are labeled an extremist or a whack job.

Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio are similar stories, except they were absorbed into the machine and now tow the line.

Funny you don't hear anything out of Joe Manchin on the national Democrat scene. Joe Liebermann and Zell Miller were prone to side with Republicans and they were basically run out of town. I would have voted for all three of them over John Cornyn's sorry a$$.....

And don't get me started on Kevin Brady.