Taking a knee: MM lock this please

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clob94

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Aug 25, 2014
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MM I was typing this as you were locking the other. Please feel free to lock this as well. Just had to get this off my chest.




The easiest way to understand this:


If you work for a company, there are rules. Dress code, dating/sleeping with other employees, aggressive physical contact with other ee's, all sorts of rules that apply "when you are on the clock".

If you show up at your banking job wearing flip flops and a g string only, you'll get fired. However, walking around your house or neighborhood in the same attire won't get you fired. Pointed and laughed at, yes, fired, no.

NFL players are famous. Even a "sort of" well known player has tens if not hundreds of thousands of social media followers. Andy Dalton has several hundred thousand. Kapernivk has over a million. JJ watt has over 4 million. If youre making a statement during "work hours" and using the platform provided to you by your employer, what you're saying is either- 1. You aren't famous enough and you need a larger platform to make your voice heard OR 2. You're virtue signaling.

Since most high profile players have millions of social media followers, they already have a huge platform. So, this leaves only option 2. Virtue signaling.

Virtue signaling is what people do when they WANT attention for their actions so that others will notice. Either fans, teammates or sponsors. The more social media followers a player has, usually this equates to more endorsement deals because of their exposure. If a player can virtue signal about an issue that a certain group cares about, perhaps that helps them pick up a few thousand more followers on social media. More followers = a greater chance for more $.

You noticed Tom Brady today, standing stoic, hand over heart. But Tommy doesn't play the Twitter game. He doesn't even have a Twitter account. Peyton Manning? No Twitter. As a professional, Brady shows up to work, does his work, goes home and cashes checks. If Tom wants attention, he goes and hosts Saturday night live. Manning loves the camera, but doesn't run around virtue signaling. He's a professional as well.

Either you accept that athletes, singers, actors etc are nothing MORE than entertainers, rich entertainers with no more intrinsic knowledge of life or politics than anyone else, or you continue to hold them on a pedestal that is above the rest of us and worship them and their virtue signaling.
 
clob, I agree with you about players protesting while at work/on the clock. Political statements like they're doing should be off limits while on the job. Just do your job and play. If they want to make a point, statement, or whatever, it should be done on their own time and via their own personal platform, not the teams or the NFL's. If any of us went off at work and made a spectacle of ourselves they way some of these guys are going about things, we'd be warned, reprimanded, and if we continued to do so, eventually be fired if we didn't stop.

I'll leave this open for now, but I don't have much faith it will last too long.
 
LMM I'd like to discuss this topic maturely but when one of our own on here shows their true colors I'm sorry it needs to be called out. As far as pro athletes we all know they're not held to the same standards Clob. If so we wouldn't have women beaters, dog killers, criminals working in NFL. NFL is not corporate world.
 
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As someone who has spent my entire life either in the military or being raised in it, there is no greater form of american patriotism than to protest.

That being said there are consequences for our actions.
 
LMM I'd like to discuss this topic maturely but when one of our own on here shows their true colors I'm sorry it needs to be called out. As far as pro athletes we all know they're not held to the same standards Clob. If so we wouldn't have women beaters, dog killers, criminals working in NFL. NFL is not corporate world.

"NFL is not corporate world".

Allow us to analyze that statement.

The NFL used to be officially a "non for profit" organization. In 2015 however, they dropped their 503c (I think) designation and became a for profit organization. They generate billions of dollars and pay millions in taxes. Their CEO makes 44 million a year. (or there abouts) And while the product doesn't wear suits and ties to work "on the field" they still have a dress code, like most companies in "corporate america". Players are fined for wearing certain shoes, or not having their jersey tucked in or their socks pulled up. It's uniform "uniformity". If you throw a ball into the stands after scoring, you've destroyed company property and are fined $500 for it. Though I think it used to be $250.
Regardless, these are corporate rules.

Now behind the scenes, I can assure you the owners, GMs, player personnel directors, lawyers, PR directors et al are VERY corporate minded. So your statement is only partly true.

Taco Bell servers don't wear suits and ties to their work. They wear a uniform. Just like NFL players do. If you're not in uniform, you can't work. And I can also assure you the front office people at taco bell all wear suits and ties in their corporate world just like NFL suits do.

The next statement of yours I'd like to address is "woman beaters, dog killers" etc. You seem to be saying that NFL players are treated differently than regular corporate people. I would agree that favor is shown to some players. But just off the top of my head, in 2008 after the housing bubble collapsed because of corporate greed and banks lending money to people that had no business having money loaned to them, how many of those criminals that, mind you, almost DESTROYED the global economy, we're actually punished?

One. One dude went to jail. And his role as a banker was less than %0.001 of the entire mess. So it appears that the star players, ceo's of Bank of America, chase, meryll lynch, AIG, etc (you know, the best players) were not punished.

So again, I say to you sir, though the product of the NFL may not seem corporate, neither is a dorrito flavored taco filled with ground beef and nacho cheese.
 
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NFL is not corporate world.....

NFL is the epitome of the corporate world. Come on........
 
Clob the players are not held to the same standard as you and I. If I smoke weed or have cocaine in my system I promise you I'm not working for a Fortune 500. I'm not saying the owners or the people that work for the actual NFL team but players are not held to the same rules.
 
The NFL is allowing this cancer to take root and it is spreading like wildfire. Americans are fed up with the disrespect these players are showing, and it is showing by lots of empty seats and plummeting TV ratings. This is costing the NFL millions of dollars and sadly, they won't stand up to these guys. This kind of thing has no place in sports. We as fans, turn on the games as a form of entertainment. We want to watch our teams play. Not to watch our flag and country be disrespected the way that it is. I'll bet that more than half of them don't even know what they're "protesting" anyway. This kneeling is all about racial divide and not racial solutions.
 
this is happening today because donald trump cant shut his fVcking mouth.
edit: the huge sure today im talking about. If he doesnt run his mouth today is no different than the last few months.
 
this is happening today because donald trump cant shut his fVcking mouth.
edit: the huge sure today im talking about. If he doesnt run his mouth today is no different than the last few months.


As if Obama could?
 
this is happening today because donald trump cant shut his fVcking mouth.
edit: the huge sure today im talking about. If he doesnt run his mouth today is no different than the last few months.

Say what? Players "protesting" during the national anthem has nothing to do with Trump. They started this long before he said anything today.
 
Say what? Players "protesting" during the national anthem has nothing to do with Trump. They started this long before he said anything today.

No a few were kneeling now you have all of the teams uniting after his tweet/speech.
 
NFL players are simply entertainers using the football field as their platform. I do not agree with them taking a knee, but it will not deter me from watching the games as I love football. I watch because I love the sport and the players' political views are no concern to me. I just look at it like this, I love my country and respect everything that said country has allotted me in life. These athletes are far more fortunate than myself on a monetary scale but seem to lack when it comes to maturity. They will continue to kneel, and we'll all continue to watch. Do some of us disagree? Yes. Will we all continue on with our lives? That's a yes also.
 
NFL players are simply entertainers using the football field as their platform. I do not agree with them taking a knee, but it will not deter me from watching the games as I love football. I watch because I love the sport and the players' political views are no concern to me. I just look at it like this, I love my country and respect everything that said country has allotted me in life. These athletes are far more fortunate than myself on a monetary scale but seem to lack when it comes to maturity. They will continue to kneel, and we'll all continue to watch. Do some of us disagree? Yes. Will we all continue on with our lives? That's a yes also.


I didn't watch today. I decided to go dove hunting. See, it's easy if you try.
 
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That's the great thing about this country! You can go dove hunting and I can choose to watch NFL football and ignore what parts I don't care for.


If NFL viewership shrinks by 10%, it's over. The networks will take it in the shorts. They will have successfully killed the golden goose. Sponsors will begin to flee once the boycotts kick in and they are included. This is going to be the death of the high salaries and the high valuations of these teams. It may take some time but this is the peak. Like a head and shoulders top, I expect this to be an ugly fall.
 
I don't watch pro football partly due to this type of drama nor do I watch ESPN except for college gameday Saturday mornings. Having said that, since I didn't watch football today I'm assuming there was a lot of kneeling during the National Anthem as was discussed would happen the last couple of days. I have to ask this: 1.) What on earth are they protesting and 2.) What on earth do they think they are accomplishing by doing what they are doing? I've seen them kneel from watching snipets on the news/internet etc. and to me they look like huge ungrateful drama queens. By kneeling they are protesting the men and women who fought for their rights. The idiots are not owed one freaking thing.No amount of kneeling is going to change one thing for them other making themselves look like bigger dildos on national tv, but by all means exercise your free rights.

EDIT: I have now gone a looked at all the pictures of all of the players kneeling today and all I can say is: What a freaking disgrace those people are kneeling.
 
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If NFL viewership shrinks by 10%, it's over. The networks will take it in the shorts. They will have successfully killed the golden goose. Sponsors will begin to flee once the boycotts kick in and they are included. This is going to be the death of the high salaries and the high valuations of these teams. It may take some time but this is the peak. Like a head and shoulders top, I expect this to be an ugly fall.

I hope this happens and the NFL suffers big-time over this. The only way to make the sports franchise owners take action is by the fans not attending the games and not watching the games on TV, which hits them in the pocket books.
 
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The NFL is allowing this cancer to take root and it is spreading like wildfire. Americans are fed up with the disrespect these players are showing, and it is showing by lots of empty seats and plummeting TV ratings. This is costing the NFL millions of dollars and sadly, they won't stand up to these guys. This kind of thing has no place in sports. We as fans, turn on the games as a form of entertainment. We want to watch our teams play. Not to watch our flag and country be disrespected the way that it is. I'll bet that more than half of them don't even know what they're "protesting" anyway. This kneeling is all about racial divide and not racial solutions.
I agree with your thoughts in the other thread about playing the National Anthem while these buffoons are still in the locker room. Take their stage away. I'm literally sitting here laughing at how utterly retarded they look thinking they are "showing" the world by kneeling. Chuckulz
 
I agree with most of above. I think standing for the national anthem is respectful and should be done. I think kneeling is disrespectful and shouldn't be done, especially while on the company clock. Most companies would fire their employees when taking such a political stand or saying distasteful things against any president via social media. But no matter how distasteful and against my beliefs these acts are, they do have this right in a free country and that is what makes this country great. But like most said above there are consequences for all actions and there are no consequences happening by the NFL exec/owners, just standing by.

Besides all that, these players have the national media and Americans all paying attention. What do they want to happen? Why doesn't something step up and lead this protest and come up with a plan? What do they want to solve? While I don't agree one bit how they are protesting.. why don't they do something constructive and try to use their efforts in a constructive way. As of now it is a protest with no direction and no end result, just a bunch of millionaires kneeling and stating problems with no solutions. Drives me freaking nuts.

I believe and I fought for, that everybody has the right to protest peacefully no matter the cause. I think there are problems in America and we need to get better in lots of ways, but we live in the best country in the world and it is not even close. Come up with a plan of action for these protest and maybe something positive can happen or STFU and stand!

Semper Fi
 
I hope this happens and the NFL suffers big-time over this. The only way to make the sports franchise owners take action is by the fans not attending the games and not watching the games on TV, which hits them in the pocket books.
The thing is, the NFL is in a no-win situation over this it appears to me. If the NFL takes action to punish the players kneeling, then that's rolling the dice on facing lawsuits for violating their 1st amendment rights wouldn't it?? I mean I understand the stance of treating it like a workplace and making it a fireable offense. But in the long run it could be a tricky legal battle right?

My whole thing in this, is what is the "end game" for these athletes kneeling?? Are they actually doing anything to bring about the change they are advocating?? Or are they simply going to do this indefinitely and expect others to step up and apparently change the "system" they are accusing of oppression in this country?? I just see this whole thing as players protesting, while not really identifying any goals whatsoever to end this activity.
 
LMM I'd like to discuss this topic maturely but when one of our own on here shows their true colors I'm sorry it needs to be called out. As far as pro athletes we all know they're not held to the same standards Clob. If so we wouldn't have women beaters, dog killers, criminals working in NFL. NFL is not corporate world.

I agree, athletes are part of the entertainment industry.
 
I agree with most of above. I think standing for the national anthem is respectful and should be done. I think kneeling is disrespectful and shouldn't be done, especially while on the company clock. Most companies would fire their employees when taking such a political stand or saying distasteful things against any president via social media. But no matter how distasteful and against my beliefs these acts are, they do have this right in a free country and that is what makes this country great. But like most said above there are consequences for all actions and there are no consequences happening by the NFL exec/owners, just standing by.

Besides all that, these players have the national media and Americans all paying attention. What do they want to happen? Why doesn't something step up and lead this protest and come up with a plan? What do they want to solve? While I don't agree one bit how they are protesting.. why don't they do something constructive and try to use their efforts in a constructive way. As of now it is a protest with no direction and no end result, just a bunch of millionaires kneeling and stating problems with no solutions. Drives me freaking nuts.

I believe and I fought for, that everybody has the right to protest peacefully no matter the cause. I think there are problems in America and we need to get better in lots of ways, but we live in the best country in the world and it is not even close. Come up with a plan of action for these protest and maybe something positive can happen or STFU and stand!

Semper Fi

This is the most accurate thing that I've read here or anywhere else. Well put!
 
I'm impressed with how this thread has been handled. I personally don't agree with the way they are protesting, but I also think that the protesting is being misconstrued. I don't think, and I have heard several players say it, that they are disrespecting the flag or the military or the national anthem. In order for peaceful protests to gain momentum and get things do, people have to notice that the protest is going on. By protesting during the national anthem, people are noticing. There have been several prominent military figures that have served tours who don't have any problem with what is going on. Like many on here have said, the military has fought for the right to do this.

One of my biggest hurdles with this and I think @MikeD56 said it is that there is no direction with it. People off all creeds, races, and backgrounds are protesting but there hasn't been a plan for moving forward. For as much crap as Kaepernick gets, he has put his money where his mouth is. He has put up a million dollars of his own money towards causes that he believe will help heal the division in this country. More of these protesters need to figure out what the next step is, because they have made the protest part known, now people need to know what they are going to do with it. Also, the people who are opposed to the protests need to see that these protesters (for the most part) want to see America continue to be great but see areas that need to be addressed.

As a middle class white male, I am often pigeonholed into certain groups. A lot of times those are accurate, but a lot of times they are not. The problem that I have personally, and I think a lot of people have this problem, is that I have not once in my life faced discrimination of any sort. And since I have not faced it personally, it is easy for me to say that discrimination doesn't happen. I think the majority of Americans haven't faced discrimination so they don't think it exists. However, I am not naive enough to think that there aren't people who have their daily lives affected by discrimination of some sort. Like @ryan_sublett mentioned its not always race or gender based.

But the great thing about all of these protests is that IF we can get both sides of the argument together, American can and will be a better place for everyone.

I'm also extremely tired of the response to these protests that "If you don't like America, then get out". It's not that they don't like America, it is because they want more for America.
 
It's become an Anti Trump thing... Don't let the equality thing fool you.
To some extent I agree that it has taken on that noise as well, but I would say don't let the anti-Trump thing distract from the inequality issue. Like it or not, even if you haven't faced it, inequality is an issue.
 
To some extent I agree that it has taken on that noise as well, but I would say don't let the anti-Trump thing distract from the inequality issue. Like it or not, even if you haven't faced it, inequality is an issue.
I get it, but this has evolved into something else. Stand for for the Anthem.... Why even play the game if you are going to protest. I'm tired of folks looking for a reason to get offended.
 
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