Taking a knee: MM lock this please

[LongfellowDrew]

It was happening anyway. The protests are just helping it along.

Not as much as you'd like to think. Most of the time the kneeling is going on viewers are not even paying attention. It does come to your attention once it's blasted on t.v. during ESPN or some local station. Then you add POTUS tweeting his opinion out and it again adds a reaction. Like you said viewership was down for other reasons and in fact I remember most posters on here saying they didn't care for the NFL and this was way before Kap started kneeling. The No Fun League is what is causing the ratings to drop. Kneeling or standing won't stop me from watching and I believe most ticket holders and viewers will agree. Now if you already stopped watching and the protest bother you then just keep on keeping on. You weren't going to watch anyway. I will say this I'll take collegeball over NFL most days and it doesn't have to do with protesting.

 

[swVAHorn]

I get it, but this has evolved into something else. Stand for for the Anthem.... Why even play the game if you are going to protest. I'm tired of folks looking for a reason to get offended.

ironic

 

[TexExSpur]

ironic

Don't ya think

 

[swVAHorn]

Don't ya think

 

[Belldozer1]

NFL = dixie chicks... It's dunzo. If CFB does this, it's over as well.

I hope you're right about the NFL part

 

[Belldozer1]

It's become an Anti Trump thing... Don't let the equality thing fool you.

Bingo

 

[Belldozer1]

This guy gets ithttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4917628/Stadium-worker-quits-team-doesn-t-stand-anthem.html

 

[LonghornMM]

The players have the right to protest. While I don't agree with it, if they truly want to get something accomplished, they should come up with a plan of action. Taking a knee or holding up their fist in "protest" accomplishes nothing. There is no substance to what they're protesting without an organized plan to improve what they believe is injustice in this country. The way they're going about things is very hollow and will have little to no impact until they get organized with a plan of action.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

they should come up with a plan of action.

I think one of the plans was for Americans to start talking about the topic. I think whether you like the plan or not it's working.

 

[topdecktiger]

Not as much as you'd like to think. Most of the time the kneeling is going on viewers are not even paying attention. It does come to your attention once it's blasted on t.v. during ESPN or some local station. Then you add POTUS tweeting his opinion out and it again adds a reaction. Like you said viewership was down for other reasons and in fact I remember most posters on here saying they didn't care for the NFL and this was way before Kap started kneeling. The No Fun League is what is causing the ratings to drop. Kneeling or standing won't stop me from watching and I believe most ticket holders and viewers will agree. Now if you already stopped watching and the protest bother you then just keep on keeping on. You weren't going to watch anyway. I will say this I'll take collegeball over NFL most days and it doesn't have to do with protesting.

Incorrect analysis. Football ratings were already going down. This just adds to it. Sports rights, football in particular, are already on a bubble as it is. Doesn't take much for the bubble to burst, as it will eventually.

 

[Belldozer1]

The players have the right to protest. While I don't agree with it, if they truly want to get something accomplished, they should come up with a plan of action. Taking a knee or holding up their fist in "protest" accomplishes nothing. There is no substance to what they're protesting without an organized plan to improve what they believe is injustice in this country. The way they're going about things is very hollow and will have little to no impact until they get organized with a plan of action.

Exactly. Very well said.

 

[BillyRay]

I think one of the plans was for Americans to start talking about the topic. I think whether you like the plan or not it's working.

I don't think it's getting people to talk about it, it's getting people to pick sides and create a divide between people. It's created all this division and anger, so now what?? I have yet to hear anything about what is the next step in this process. Are the players just going to continue to kneel indefinitely because they think this country is full of oppression?? Maybe instead of playing football, they can all leave the game and dedicate their lives to fixing what they feel is wrong with the country.

 

[LonghornMM]

I think one of the plans was for Americans to start talking about the topic. I think whether you like the plan or not it's working.

How is it working? Give some examples other than "people are talking about it". I see nothing in progress to enact the change/progress that they're clamoring for. Ok, so they've brought attention to it. What next? On the flip side, perhaps those protesters should send a message to their people to not break the law, be accountable if you do something wrong and not blame others, have a solid work ethic, earn what you get, get an education, etc. I'm not seeing that message anywhere.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

How is it working? Give some examples other than "people are talking about it". I see nothing in progress to enact the change/progress that they're clamoring for. Ok, so they've brought attention to it. What next? On the flip side, perhaps those protesters should send a message to their people to not break the law, be accountable if you do something wrong and not blame others, have a solid work ethic, earn what you get, get an education, etc. I'm not seeing that message anywhere.

In order for something to start you have to speak about it first.

Look nothing I say will convince you. Do some research on both sides not just listen to what satisfies your opinion. We've discussed this before on this forum about we all listen to what we want to hear. We all have our opinions on social justice and that comes from how we were raised what our parents preached at home and what we watch on t.v. And let's be honest LMM do you look for stories or research what the minority community does within? It's easy to say what are THEY doing why don't THEY do more for themselves but are you actually researching? I'd bet not. You and I probably listen to what fits our beliefs and stop there.

 

[LonghornMM]

In order for something to start you have to speak about it first.

Look nothing I say will convince you. Do some research on both sides not just listen to what satisfies your opinion. We've discussed this before on this forum about we all listen to what we want to hear. We all have our opinions on social justice and that comes from how we were raised what our parents preached at home and what we watch on t.v. And let's be honest LMM do you look for stories or research what the minority community does within? It's easy to say what are THEY doing why don't THEY do more for themselves but are you actually researching? I'd bet not. You and I probably listen to what fits our beliefs and stop there.

Perhaps. It goes both ways. With all due respect, you should take your own advice.

 

[Belldozer1]

"Get that son of a bitch off the field" instant classic

 

[UTGrad87]

Just as an FYI, I read today on Yahoo that NFL viewership is down 23% from 2 years ago. So there's that. I'm betting advertisers and ESPN aren't smiling right about now?? But I fully support the NFL's right to drive their P n L's into the Red ink from the Black ink!

From a pragmatic point of view . . . when a group of people are trying to influence public opinion on any topic the last thing you want to do is piss off 50% of the public right from the get go. These black players have obviously never taken and passed a Marketing class. They're trying to sell this idea about Cop abuse by denigrating those who have fought and died for this country. They dispute that obviously but they don't get to make that call, the public does.

So IMHO this isn't going to end well for these players or the NFL. The invisible hand of the free market is speaking right now and apparently Jerry Jones(can't stand the guy) is the only one listening. Jerrah gets it. Because ultimately, this whole thing is in the hands of the viewing and paying public. And those folks are plenty pissed right now.

My 2 cents

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Perhaps. It goes both ways. With all due respect, you should take your own advice.

I do!

 

[RoboCocks21]

It's sad to see the NFL only doing this at the moment cause baseball is sure not doing it or hockey. Wait for it basketball season is right around the corner and will continue to happen. They are taking down statues right now and changing street names and schools and for what? Cause history will always be part of our past and we can't erase it. I thank many on this board for serving our country I salute you guys. The world is changing in front of our eyes whether we like it or not and we can't do anything about it cause other powers will run this world how they want too. We just happen to be living in it at the moment and history will continue writing it self.

 

[TexExSpur]

We already know where the NFL stands on this topic, Kaperknuckelhead doesn't have a job....This is BS and has nothing to do with equality/social injustice anymore. Period...

 

[BillyRay]

How is it working? Give some examples other than "people are talking about it". I see nothing in progress to enact the change/progress that they're clamoring for. Ok, so they've brought attention to it. What next? On the flip side, perhaps those protesters should send a message to their people to not break the law, be accountable if you do something wrong and not blame others, have a solid work ethic, earn what you get, get an education, etc. I'm not seeing that message anywhere.

I think Dallas Police Chief Brown mentioned the perfect solution and next step these football players who are so concerned about oppression should take. He says the police force is hiring so they should get off the protest line and put in an application!! They can put you in neighborhoods and communities and help you make a difference with the problems you are protesting about!!

 

[TX1972]

MM I was typing this as you were locking the other. Please feel free to lock this as well. Just had to get this off my chest.




The easiest way to understand this:


If you work for a company, there are rules. Dress code, dating/sleeping with other employees, aggressive physical contact with other ee's, all sorts of rules that apply "when you are on the clock".

If you show up at your banking job wearing flip flops and a g string only, you'll get fired. However, walking around your house or neighborhood in the same attire won't get you fired. Pointed and laughed at, yes, fired, no.

NFL players are famous. Even a "sort of" well known player has tens if not hundreds of thousands of social media followers. Andy Dalton has several hundred thousand. Kapernivk has over a million. JJ watt has over 4 million. If youre making a statement during "work hours" and using the platform provided to you by your employer, what you're saying is either- 1. You aren't famous enough and you need a larger platform to make your voice heard OR 2. You're virtue signaling.

Since most high profile players have millions of social media followers, they already have a huge platform. So, this leaves only option 2. Virtue signaling.
Clob, my brother in law is a production manager in the movies. He's the guy who makes sure the director gets what he needs, but doesn't overspend. He told me many years ago that he was tired of celebrity experts on everything. He told one particularly apt story of a B class actress who called him one night when they were making a movie because she was hungry. He had to tell her to find the car keys, start the car, drive down canyon and find food. She needed detailed instructions.

 

[TX1972]

To some extent I agree that it has taken on that noise as well, but I would say don't let the anti-Trump thing distract from the inequality issue. Like it or not, even if you haven't faced it, inequality is an issue.

I think that inequality today is not of opportunity, but of results. Look at the Harvard data: Asians need 450 extra SAT points for admission compared to blacks.

 

[Belldozer1]

I think Dallas Police Chief Brown mentioned the perfect solution and next step these football players who are so concerned about oppression should take. He says the police force is hiring so they should get off the protest line and put in an application!! They can put you in neighborhoods and communities and help you make a difference with the problems you are protesting about!!

View embedded media

Funny that the NFL wouldn't let the Cowboys and maybe every NFL team wear a sticker on their helmets memorializing the 5 officers killed in that big Dallas shooting by the guy that stated he wanted to kill white people, the league thought it might be too 'divisive'. Sounds like the league et al have an agenda.

 

[JoeAg]

I think Dallas Police Chief Brown mentioned the perfect solution and next step these football players who are so concerned about oppression should take. He says the police force is hiring so they should get off the protest line and put in an application!! They can put you in neighborhoods and communities and help you make a difference with the problems you are protesting about!!

View embedded media

That makes too much sense and your intentions are not good enough, for we all know that results don't matter as long as your intentions are of the highest order.

 

[westx]

I like the idea to have the whole team stay in the locker room during the national anthem except, for those players wishing to show honor and participate. Those that choose to come out can show respect to our flag along with the rest of us. It would be great because we wouldn't even have to look at the others and distract from the brief pregame ceremony.

 

[DHHorn]

I'll continue to watch on TV because I like football, but I'm not buying a ticket, jerseys, or anything else. These players get paid to entertain me, not push their politics on me. Do what you want when your not on the sideline, but when they're in their uniforms they need to stick to their job. I think it's very disrespectful to not stand during the National Anthem and they are lucky to live in this country where they have the choice to kneel. Then they disrespect the very symbol that gives them that choice. Idiots.

 

[ekal48]

Couple of things.

If I'm understanding this situation, sitting, kneeling or some sort of non-violent protest during the National Anthem is not against team or league rules.
If that's correct, leave them alone. It is their right. If people would have just left Kappernick alone it would't be a big deal now. You don't have to like it but he has that right, unlike in North Korea. I'm sure had the NFL seen this coming they would have had a rule in place and that would be fine with me. As a matter of fact I wish they did.

The other thing on declining viewership, the ratings being quoted are the traditional TV ratings, not all the streaming venues available. People don't consume media only through a TV anymore and the ratings systems need to reflect that. I'm not saying viewership is not down, just that the ratings do not reflect true viewership. They were talking about this on CNBC the other day. There are so many options out there now the feeling was that the NFL would probably end up with a bigger contract rather than smaller when they begin to renegotiate their new contract in I believe it is 2021. A lot of companies that are interested have a lot of money to throw around.

 

[topdecktiger]

Couple of things.

If I'm understanding this situation, sitting, kneeling or some sort of non-violent protest during the National Anthem is not against team or league rules.
If that's correct, leave them alone. It is their right. If people would have just left Kappernick alone it would't be a big deal now. You don't have to like it but he has that right, unlike in North Korea. I'm sure had the NFL seen this coming they would have had a rule in place and that would be fine with me. As a matter of fact I wish they did.

The other thing on declining viewership, the ratings being quoted are the traditional TV ratings, not all the streaming venues available. People don't consume media only through a TV anymore and the ratings systems need to reflect that. I'm not saying viewership is not down, just that the ratings do not reflect true viewership. They were talking about this on CNBC the other day. There are so many options out there now the feeling was that the NFL would probably end up with a bigger contract rather than smaller when they begin to renegotiate their new contract in I believe it is 2021. A lot of companies that are interested have a lot of money to throw around.

Actually, they don't have a right to protest. That right is only in relation to the government, not private companies. The government can't sensor speech. A private company can. You may find that harsh, but we have to be accurate on the legal precedents. And by the way, free speech works both ways. People who disagree with the players have a perfect right to voice their opinion. They don't have to "leave them alone," as you suggest.

Streaming isn't counted because it isn't profitable. The reason sports leagues get big money in those contracts is because of advertisers. The money for streaming advertisement is minimal. (If you notice on WatchESPN, sometimes they don't even have commercials during the games. You just get that still screen that says" Your program will continue shortly." You'll also notice that's why websites like Facebook make their money by selling your personal information, rather than from advertisements.)

So, when ratings are down for TV broadcasts, that isn't being made up by streaming, because advertisers aren't getting the exposure streaming like they are on television. Of course, there aren't anywhere near enough people streaming the games to make up for the number of lost viewers anyway.

Another thing I forgot to mention. This stuff wouldn't simply go away if people ignored Kaepernick, as you suggested. That's because this is bigger than the NFL protests. What's happened is, you have a certain political segment that wants promote its message, and the NFL protests simply fall under that larger umbrella. In other words, the reason Kaepernick and co. got so much publicity isn't simply due to opponents freaking out over their actions. It's also because supporters of Kaepernick and co. are publicizing the players' actions to promote their causes.

 

[ekal48]

Read the post I didn't say they had to leave him alone I said just leave him alone.

And I am not a lawyer but it seems very apparent that they do have the right to protest because they are. I'm sure if the NFL had legal grounds they would have used them and headed this off at the pass when it started.

It may come as a shock to you but living in a free society is pretty hard at times. You are required to put up with a lot of stuff that you don't want to, but that what it is all about.

 

[easttx903]

looks like at least the steelers are shook.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-regrets-how-pittsburgh-steelers-showed-unity

PITTSBURGH -- The Steelers will be on the field for the national anthem "moving forward," quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said alongside defensive end Cam Heyward at a press conference Monday at the team facility.

"What we do while we're out there is yet to be determined," said Roethlisberger, whose Steelers play at the Baltimore Ravens in Week 4. "I know I want to be on the field, Cam wants to be on the field, and the guys in that locker room want to be on the field."

Roethlisberger's comments came shortly after he wrote on his website Mondaythat he wished the Steelers had handled their show of unity during the national anthem differently Sunday.

Roethlisberger wrote that he "was unable to sleep last night" as the Steelers' method of protest weighed on him.

The Steelers decided to stay in the Soldier Field tunnel before Sunday's game against the Chicago Bears in light of divisive comments made by President Donald Trump. Left tackle Alejandro Villanueva, a former Army ranger, was the lone Steeler standing just outside the tunnel, hand over heart, a move that one team source said surprised many players based on the unified approach outlined at Saturday's players-only meeting.

Roethlisberger explained the team captains asked Villanueva to meet them at the top of the tunnel, and amid "chaos" from Bears fans in the area and the anthem music starting, the players stopped short and Villanueva was left alone. Roethlisberger estimates players were about 20 feet behind Villanueva. "I regret not going down to Al, but Al didn't know that we weren't there," Villanueva said. "Al thought we were standing with him. There was no division there...It was just the way it appeared through pictures."

Heyward said the captains have spoken with Villanueva, who was with the team during Monday's meetings. Villanueva told Heyward he was "shocked" by the pictures, Heyward said.

Villanueva was not made available to the media as of late Monday afternoon, and he wasn't visible in the locker room after Sunday's game.

"He never wants to be the center of attention," said Heyward about Villanueva not wanting to stand alone on the field.

Both players were clear they fully supported the military and Sunday was not a boycott, but a stand of unity. Roethlisberger said in a statement released Monday that he had trouble sleeping last night after the way things went down.

"I just felt like I wish that we would have been on the field," Roethlisberger said. "That's just my personal feeling on it. I'm entitled to that opinion. That's what's great about this country and what the troops are for. I wish we could have stood out there. What was important was being united as well, and that's what we showed. We showed unity. Because that's what we need in this country right now. There's so much division. We need to stay together."

 

[Cotton #12]

The NFL is a public business and to offend 50% of the viewing audience right or wrong is very bad business.The country and its success and its image super cedes any business interest within it.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=1-20819470

In addition to Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald calling Cowboys tight end Jason Witten to discuss a possible joint demonstration between their two teams, Cardinals president Michael Bidwill and coach Bruce Arians each addressed the team in the last day. There's still no word on what, if any, demonstration will take place.

 

[swVAHorn]

I hate that our nation has come to this. It is ALL the fault of the "other" side! We are righteous and faithful and true and "they" are evil, vile, and are out to destroy America!

I hope I never get in my mind that I can only be right and never wrong. I hope I always at least listen to the other side and try to understand where they are coming from.

This country needs more WE and less me.

 

[westx]

The NFL is a public business and to offend 50% of the viewing audience right or wrong is very bad business.The country and its success and its image super cedes any business interest within it.

I would think it is about 80-90%, but just my own guess.