The world is right for one evening: Astros win

[oldhorn2]

They asked Mantle years after he retired why he didnt stel more bases. He said if he had known it was going to be a big deal he might have thought about it....but after he thought about it he said Steingle would not let him steal because of so many HR hitters behind him and big RBI men.

Clob is right...Mantle was so fast he could litterally drag bunt his way on base at will. Nothing anyone could do about it.

 

[Bwilk55]

They asked Mantle years after he retired why he didnt stel more bases. He said if he had known it was going to be a big deal he might have thought about it....but after he thought about it he said Steingle would not let him steal because of so many HR hitters behind him and big RBI men.

Clob is right...Mantle was so fast he could litterally drag bunt his way on base at will. Nothing anyone could do about it.

Never got to really see him play and the highlights I have seen don't seem to focus on drag bunts. lol

Other than Mantle (in the argument for greatest player of all time), can y'all name any other comparable players to what Jose is doing this year?

 

[oldhorn2]

George Brett...Rod Carew..Tony Gwyn....just off the top of my head....and dont forget Ted Williams...Stan Museul...Willie Mays....nice company I would say.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Is Jose the shortest player in MLB to do what he's been doing in the history of MLB? Just curious LOL!

• His .485 batting average in July was the best by any Astros player in any month, surpassing Hidalgo's .476 average in September 2000.

• Altuve posted a career-long hitting streak of 19 games from July 2-28. It was the longest streak by an Astros player since Hunter Pence had a 23-game stretch in 2011.

• From July 4-28, Altuve posted 43 hits over an 18-game span, becoming one of six players in MLB's modern era to record 43-plus hits in an 18-game stretch. The others: Ty Cobb, George Sisler, Jack Tobin, Heinie Manush and Ichiro Suzuki, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

• Altuve was hitting .544 with 37 hits in 68 at-bats from July 4-28. Over the 15-game span, Altuve became the first player with 37 hits in 68 or fewer at-bats since Rogers Hornsby went 37-for-62 in July 1923, according to Elias.

• Altuve earned a hit in 21 of 23 games in July and leads the Majors with 148 hits.

• And, yes, his .368 batting average this season leads MLB as well.

 

[Bwilk55]

George Brett...Rod Carew..Tony Gwyn....just off the top of my head....and dont forget Ted Williams...Stan Museul...Willie Mays....nice company I would say.

Brett (my namesake by the way) didn't bat for as high an average (career 305), Carew had only 92 career homers while Gwynn only had 135 - both played for 20 years. Williams stole about 1 base a year, while Musial (probably the closest comparison to Jose) never stole more than 9 bases. Willie Mays was a career 302 batter.

All great comparisons, especially off the top of your head. I'm still curious to see if there has been a player that has averaged 10+ HRs, 30+steals and a batting average of 315.

I'm not saying Jose is better than all these greats but he has a pretty unique profile of attributes. He also, has to keep this up for about 10 more years to have the careers those you mentioned had.

 

[oldhorn2]

Brett one year carried a .400 average into August...He ended the year hitting .390....with 24 HR...The reason he ended with a career .305 average is ....like all of them his last 3 years drug him down....same as Mantle, Williams. Museul, Mays....and Altuve in the end. Happens to them all. Nobody but Koufax quit on top.

No disrespect to Jose. He is special....just not unique.I also suspect he will end as a .310 or less hitter as well.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

He is special....just not unique.

He's a special Venezuelan killing it at an American sport at 5'6" which is unique.

 

[oldhorn2]

Somehow ya'll think I am down on Jose when the opposite is true. Like I said on the Astro forum....Altuve had to win a batting title before he quieted the talk about being sent down to the minors(true)....He had to win 2 batting titles before he quieted the talk of him being traded so we could get the second baseman for the future(also true)....He will have to win the 3rd before he gets the respect he deserves. Not only is he a super star, but he is a good guy.

The knock on him as a defender is limited range. The knock on him as a hitter is ,...or was his very low walk rate. That has improved as opposing pitchers are reluctant to give him a decent pitch.

As an aside....Freddy Patek (KC) was also 5'6" and he made 2 all star teams....but never close to a batting title.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Somehow ya'll think I am down on Jose when the opposite is true. Like I said on the Astro forum....Altuve had to win a batting title before he quieted the talk about being sent down to the minors(true)....He had to win 2 batting titles before he quieted the talk of him being traded so we could get the second baseman for the future(also true)....He will have to win the 3rd before he gets the respect he deserves. Not only is he a super star, but he is a good guy.

The knock on him as a defender is limited range. The knock on him as a hitter is ,...or was his very low walk rate. That has improved as opposing pitchers are reluctant to give him a decent pitch.

As an aside....Freddy Patek (KC) was also 5'6" and he made 2 all star teams....but never close to a batting title.

I'm just messing with you. You have more knowledge of baseball in your little pinky than I have in my 39 years of life. I just like picking and choosing quotes and adding a little smart ass too it.

 

[clob94]

There a no doubt he on a run......unlike anything I've seen in a while. He's not "feared" as a hitter and I think that's because he's a midget. Remember back in the late 90's early 2000's when Bonds OBP was like .900? Dude would stand on top of the plate and either go yard or you'd walk him. Altuve doesn't have that power but he will slap it over your head like he hit it with a wet newspaper.

 

[Oldmanastro]

Jose named July player of the month! Gurriel named rookie of the month.
Need the boys to heal up and get our lineup back in order.

 

[Bwilk55]

Brett one year carried a .400 average into August...He ended the year hitting .390....with 24 HR...The reason he ended with a career .305 average is ....like all of them his last 3 years drug him down....same as Mantle, Williams. Museul, Mays....and Altuve in the end. Happens to them all. Nobody but Koufax quit on top.

No disrespect to Jose. He is special....just not unique.I also suspect he will end as a .310 or less hitter as well.

I agree, we are seeing him at his peak right now. It will be interesting to see how long he can keep this up.

 

[oldhorn2]

Actually, I disagree. I dont think he has hit his peak yet. I dont expect him to always hit 365, but I am sure he will stay in the 300's for years.He is only 27!....Hard to believe.Hitters generally get stronger and better into their 30's up to around 35 or so. What I was speaking to is that they refuse to retire until around 39 or so and at that point they tend to stick around to fill out records.....(3000 hits....or in Jose;s case maybe 4300 to pass Rose). Thats when the averages go south. I guess the best guy to look at to project Jose's average at what age is Tony Gwynn.

But to your point, I expect his HR's to go up, but his average to come down, but not yet.

 

[oldhorn2]

I mis spoke....I just looked again at Tony Gwynn at Jose's age and realized it was an unfair comparison. Tony at age 27 only got 7 HR's....but he batted 370 for the year ....and stole 56 bases. I was right that Tony stayed too long. Tony played at age 41 and he limped in with a 324 average. At age 40 he only hit 323.....he ended at 338 for his career and not many who played the game in the modern era finished higher. If Jose finishes like that he will have a career for the ages.

 

[Bwilk55]

I mis spoke....I just looked again at Tony Gwynn at Jose's age and realized it was an unfair comparison. Tony at age 27 only got 7 HR's....but he batted 370 for the year ....and stole 56 bases. I was right that Tony stayed too long. Tony played at age 41 and he limped in with a 324 average. At age 40 he only hit 323.....he ended at 338 for his career and not many who played the game in the modern era finished higher. If Jose finishes like that he will have a career for the ages.

Jose's power/avg/speed combo is what I think makes him a bit unique. Gwynn for example was a crazy high average guy and stole a lot of bases. Jose may hit for about the same average with a lot more steals and HRs (could pass Tony in SB and HRs in 3-4 years).

Again, the question is sustainability. Can Jose keep this up at this pace for much longer? I hope, as you said, he hasn't hit his peak yet.

 

[oldhorn2]

Jose has never approached 56 steals in one year.

 

[Oldmanastro]

Jose has never approached 56 steals in one year.

He didn't need to approach it, he got it in 2014.
Listen, why do you need to nit pick on the dude, he is a great player that any other player in the league would take on his team in a heart beat. Just enjoy the guys talent for what it is, and enjoy the team winning, or wait, do you want to nit pick that too?
You want to keep comparing these guys to the "back in my day" guys, but in reality you know we can't. Different time, different players, different league. We're those players good and great then, sure. Are some of these players, including Altuve, good and great, at this point in time, yes.

 

[oldhorn2]

sorry to disappoint you, but if you had read what I wrote you would see that I am Altuve's biggest fan. I clearly said he had not yet reached his full potential.He is special right now and will only continue to grow as a player.He will get more HR as he matures. Dude is only 27. I expect he will end up with 20 dingers this year and will add to that in years to come.
He is ahead of Pete Rose at the same age as Rose was, so we might be fortunate enough to be watching the new hits leader in the game...ever.My allusion to Tony Gwyn is that he is the only guy I could think of that would be a good comparison to Altuve, and I thought could give a good yard stick as to what to expect Altuve to do in the future. Gwyn went right on raking to age 41....if Altuve follows that path we could be looking at something historic and wonderful. One thing it shows me seeing the career path of both Brett and Gwyn.....look for Altuve to make a very serious bid to be the last 400 hitter since Ted Williams....if you think I am nit picking him well then so be it.

 

[Bwilk55]

Jose has never approached 56 steals in one year.

Gwynn had the great 56 SB year but didn't consistently steal bases across his career. Jose may slow down as well, but I doubt he will to the degree Tony did. Jose only needs 89 more steals to pass Tony. He will probably accomplish that over the next 4 seasons.

 

[oldhorn2]

you are correct. I did not realize Jose had been that good on the bases. as I had been focusing on his damned incredible bat. You asked had here ever been......and the only guy I could think of was Gwyn. The biggest thing to me there is that at age 27 Jose has 1197 hits and through the whole season at the same age Gwyn had 988 hits. Jose is getting more hits than Pete Rose and with a higher average consistently.


Damn....I may have to compare with Ty Cobb and that is insane. As Oldmanastro said, you cant compare accross the ages as the game is so different....but to who then? Ted Williams?

 

[Orange40Acres]

Guess it's a good thing the other teams in the AL Central suck this yr. With the injuries right now Stros should have gotten Darvish. Dodgers are looking real hard to beat.