Vegas has ND -10 over UT at home.

[TheDecker]

It made me mad bc that is not what you started off saying.... even other posters are calling you out for troll like behaviour..... YOU started the hypocrisy stuff, and it actually had nothing to do with the fresh AA stuff either.... had you tell us that our o-line would be trash without any real experience etc, when you have less coming back on the lines than we do, and we bring back freshman AA's...... which is where you started your value system of AA at variou slevels to force your point... you took negatives or unceratins for Texas - lack of depth/experience and turned them into good things for ND using stuff about how back ups got good reps, and they picked up what they needed to in off season etc etc etc... yet then you turn around and tell us that the lines we have are going to be suspect bc we dont bring back alot of talent/depth etc etc... JUST LIKE ND yet you felt it was easily overcomable and even a good thing for ND to be dealing with it.... then you went on about the defense, etc etc....

Yall lost more talent than we did from last year - but what we lost will doom us, and what yall lost doesnt matter bc your backups from last year will be starting.... NONE of that makes any sense....

Oh and btw - thought it was really cute the way you tried to bait me in to something stupid with your "calmly discuss football" post - it does show everyone that you are in fact trolling this board and being everything i said you were.

It seems while you were "calmly" discussing anything - in between backhand compliments, straight slights and absense of reality - everyone else saw you for what your colors truly are.... trollish... and the more you post and the more you say, the less anyone here cares what you have to say, and the less respect you have from anyone here.

JUst kick rocks junior... got PAGES of you acting like an idiot and doing what you are good at troll.... just leave before you catch a boot from the site... I can see it coming already..... lol

Oh and Texas still wins by 2 scores this year.... and when they do, you have my permission to cry like a baby before wandering in to traffic on IH-35. Have a nice day and may your catholic priests stop molesting little boys! Surprised it was Penn Sate and not ND that had Sandusky issues now that I think about it... but im sure yall have your own version in the works...

So let's take a look at the complaints you pointed out here:

1. Yes, ND lost more talent than Texas did after last season. However, we also started out with A LOT more talent. So pointing out that ND still has a talent edge in some places isn't at all unfair

2. Part of why I was pointing out that retuning Frosh AAs isn't the same at all positions, is what I was getting at with comparing our OLs. The fact that Texas has "Frosh AAs" on then OL doesn't change the the issues the OL has last year, nor does it in any way cancel out the fact that at least 1 True Frosh will just be walking into starting spots in the OL.
Those are fair things to discuss for OL projections.

3. I haven't done any "bait and switch". When Texas has positions that's are talented but unproven on the CFB field...I pointed that out. In some places, such as ND WR v. Texas DB, I pointed out that ND and Texas were looking at the same/similar situations.

No sure why this is causing you to throw such a temper tantrum.....but I'm I honestly embarrassed for you.

It's probably best to try and get yourself under control before responding, becuAse tight nth time now all your doing is trying to be an "internet tough guy" and have completely ceased any actual football discussion

Try to do better

 

[CaptainZigZag]

You're having a back and forth with yourself. Are all Domers such insufferable fvcksticks?
Again on a Domers board you can enjoy your circle here...frankly you've lasted longer here than you should have given your passive/aggressive trolling

 

[TheDecker]

You're having a back and forth with yourself. Are all Domers such insufferable fvcksticks?
Again on a Domers board you can enjoy your circle here...frankly you've lasted longer here than you should have given your passive/aggressive trolling

I like that you think a football discussion is trolling

Says A LOT

 

[TexExSpur]

Who is the freshman AA starting for ND? HS All-American?

Notre Dame returns 5 true starters on offense and 5 true starters on defense.

Talent over the last 2 classes is very similar. Charlies first 2 classes trump ND in composite rankings but it is minuscule. Last 2 classes Texas 11/ND 15 and Texas10/ND 13. The small class Texas took upon firing Mack finished 16th versus ND at 11th in 2014.


Why would you use one source when composite rankings exist?

 

[Scholz]

I think I'll stay and continue CALMLY discussing actual football

You're a proven liar. Tell us again how we "completely abandoned the run" again last year. You're a lying punk with no character.

 

[oldhorn2]

Who is the freshman AA starting for ND? HS All-American?

Notre Dame returns 5 true starters on offense and 5 true starters on defense.

You know what Spur....I would like to know that myself.....and for that matter....I would like to know how many "starters" Decker thinks ND had last year. The math doesnt add up.

 

[TexExSpur]

You know what Spur....I would like to know that myself.....and for that matter....I would like to know how many "starters" Decker thinks ND had last year. The math doesnt add up.

No clue, they returned 19 starters on offense and defense in 2015. I think he likes to count Special Teams. I only look at Offense and Defense. Now, when it comes to Special Teams, they do return a freshman AA kicker. ;-)

http://ndsmcobserver.com/2016/04/notre-dame-football-new-starters/

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...-experience-lsu-ohio-state-tennessee-stanford

 

[TexExSpur]

Texas only lost 1 linebacker from the 2 deep from 2015 and it's fair to say that unit will be stout. With people pointing out the front 4 as a weak point, I agree and disagree all in the same text. They have the depth depending on scheme... As for the Secondary:

"As good as the linebackers are, Texas' secondary might have a claim to the best position group on the defense.

The strength of this unit absolutely lies at the cornerback position. True sophomores Holton Hill and Davante Davis are shutdown corners in the making that have the physical ability to play with any receiver in the country. Hill's especially worth watching, as teams avoided him like the plague at times during his freshman season.

Tweeted Ryan Autullo of Hookem.com during the Longhorns game against Oklahoma on Oct. 10: "Whichever WR Holton Hill is covering hasn't gotten open all day. The freshman corner is having a great game."

The best battle here will be at the nickel position, which has produced stars like Quandre Diggs, Earl Thomas and Aaron Williams. Kris Boyd, P.J. Locke and John Bonney will compete for the role in a battle that should last into fall camp. Boyd's size, fluid hips and overall athleticism should give him the edge over Locke's football IQ.

Safety will also feature some of the competition of the offseason, as neither Dylan Haines nor Jason Hall played particularly well in 2015. DeShon Elliott's combination of size, speed and violence demands that he see the field over one of these two. Since Haines is a senior, Hall probably finds himself on the bench to begin the year.

Locke should also factor into the battle at safety, and a commitment from Brandon Jones will further muddy the depth chart. Should that happen, Elliott could easily be starting next to a freshman."

This was written well enough for me to use as reference material to previously stated facts.

 

[oldhorn2]

I oughta thank Decker...he turned me from thinking we could win this game to full blown:

 

[TexExSpur]

I oughta thank Decker...he turned me from thinking we could win this game to full blown:

lol, I give ND the nod in this game, but I don't give it a high percentage nod.

 

[LonghornSoldier]

I like that you think a football discussion is trolling

Says A LOT

If 1 person thinks you are a douchebag... maybe they are wrong.. if a couple ppl think you are a douchebag troll.... maybe they just have group think mentality... when damn near a whole entire community think you are a POS douchebag troll - you need to take a look at it...

Everyone has said the same thing I have - you bait and switch and change parameters to make your argument work. Also everyone thinks you started off ok and then went full retard when you saw we werent drinking your koolaid.... There is a major difference between football talk and trolling and it amazes me that you think you are talking and not trolling.... and the thing that should stand out the most here is that wecan sit here and talk football with fans from all over - oklahoma, LSU, etc etc... and we actually dont like them but we all find a way to doit right when nobody is acting ike a douchebag troll loser (*COUGH*COUGH*Decker*)

Im not the only one calling you out on your garbage either... I have seen MANY poster on here call you on your double standards and changing parameters, and all were met with the same garbage responses from you trying to justofy your stance without actually changing anything, or conforming to reality... or just not being a giant POS.... I think it is also funny that you are a GUEST and feel like you can talk down to anyone here, or act like such a total tool and nobody would mind.....when in fact you are the type of trash that needs to go most..... had you not slipped up and went full retard then we may never have discovered your troll like nature... but now that we do, its time to send you packing.....

 

[LonghornSoldier]

Texas only lost 1 linebacker from the 2 deep from 2015 and it's fair to say that unit will be stout. With people pointing out the front 4 as a weak point, I agree and disagree all in the same text. They have the depth depending on scheme... As for the Secondary:

"As good as the linebackers are, Texas' secondary might have a claim to the best position group on the defense.

The strength of this unit absolutely lies at the cornerback position. True sophomores Holton Hill and Davante Davis are shutdown corners in the making that have the physical ability to play with any receiver in the country. Hill's especially worth watching, as teams avoided him like the plague at times during his freshman season.

Tweeted Ryan Autullo of Hookem.com during the Longhorns game against Oklahoma on Oct. 10: "Whichever WR Holton Hill is covering hasn't gotten open all day. The freshman corner is having a great game."

The best battle here will be at the nickel position, which has produced stars like Quandre Diggs, Earl Thomas and Aaron Williams. Kris Boyd, P.J. Locke and John Bonney will compete for the role in a battle that should last into fall camp. Boyd's size, fluid hips and overall athleticism should give him the edge over Locke's football IQ.

Safety will also feature some of the competition of the offseason, as neither Dylan Haines nor Jason Hall played particularly well in 2015. DeShon Elliott's combination of size, speed and violence demands that he see the field over one of these two. Since Haines is a senior, Hall probably finds himself on the bench to begin the year.

Locke should also factor into the battle at safety, and a commitment from Brandon Jones will further muddy the depth chart. Should that happen, Elliott could easily be starting next to a freshman."

This was written well enough for me to use as reference material to previously stated facts.

Wait...... but but Decker said the ND wr's vs the Texas DBs was a push at best..... someone needs to inform him that he is indeed wrong again.

From what I know and read, Texas has multiple shut down corners capable of matching up with ANY wr in the country... and the safeties are cld as well... we all knew LB was killer with ony 1 loss from last year.... but to hear decker tell it, we are lucky to even get a "push" nod on any category... I mean hell if he decided to put up the Fighting Irish Mascot vs Bevo in terms of what mascot better represented Texas, he would argue that it would be a push at best for Bevo, if not a landslide for the domers.... everyone loves ND.... funny how everyone hates their fans though......

 

[oldhorn2]

The thing is that apparently at South bend it is a pass time to sit around and diagnose the future as it pertains to football. This has been going on since the days of Parsegian. Nothing wrong with that, most fan bases do the same thing, but not nearly to the degree of the ND faithful. Again, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes one of them goes off reservation trying to find even more people that agree with their scientific analysis of the game. I think they are generally mystified when those other people dont buy in to what they are saying.Thus they try more and more to explain what to them seems obvious but still isnt bought into by the other fan base. So they try to EXPLAIN IT AND EXPLAIN IT AND EXPLAIN IT ad nauseum until the inevitable happens....they simply are invited to stay the hell away.

 

[oldhorn2]

Farely....I think you pretty well nailed it....good job.

* correct on the special teams...we were so damned bad there last year, we will be improved simply by the fact it is no longer still last year.

* you left out the part where it will be hotter than hell in Austin

 

[TheDecker]

Who is the freshman AA starting for ND? HS All-American?

Notre Dame returns 5 true starters on offense and 5 true starters on defense.

Talent over the last 2 classes is very similar. Charlies first 2 classes trump ND in composite rankings but it is minuscule. Last 2 classes Texas 11/ND 15 and Texas10/ND 13. The small class Texas took upon firing Mack finished 16th versus ND at 11th in 2014.


Why would you use one source when composite rankings exist?

Nyles Morgan was a Frosh AA at LB in 2014, when trust onto the field in place of the injured Joe Schmidt

Many publications wouldn't count him as a "returning starter" because Schmidt reclaimed his MLB spot when he returned in 2015....much to the chagrin of many ND fans
(Nyles Morgan was far, far more talented but Schmidt was the "experienced QB of the defense" according to our DC....but now the DC and HC both admit they may have made a mistake in not playing Morgan more in 2015)

Whether or not you count Morgan as a "returning starter" doesn't really matter at all, as it doesn't affect his Frosh AA status from 2014 nor does it reduce his talent or experience.



As for recruiting rankings:

Rivals favored ND slightly for both the 2015 and 2016 classes, while 247 favor Texas slightly.

All publications favored ND's 2013 and 2014 classes.

Using 1 source of the 247 composite is certainly debateable.
The main argument against the composite rankings would be that they give equal value to well researched rankings (Rivals/247) and rankings with next to no research (ESPN)

You could use either and it would make sense to me
(I cited Rivals specifically, because this is a Rivals site and that just made sense.......plus some Rival's sites get very touchy about referencing other sites' rankings)

 

[TheDecker]

You're a proven liar. Tell us again how we "completely abandoned the run" again last year. You're a lying punk with no character.

You ran the ball 11x in the entire 2nd half against ND in 2015, and passed far more than you ran in the 2nd half

You did abandon the run

That's not up for debate, that's just reality

 

[NDAFArly]

The thing is that apparently at South bend it is a pass time to sit around and diagnose the future as it pertains to football. This has been going on since the days of Parsegian. Nothing wrong with that, most fan bases do the same thing, but not nearly to the degree of the ND faithful. Again, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes one of them goes off reservation trying to find even more people that agree with their scientific analysis of the game. I think they are generally mystified when those other people dont buy in to what they are saying.Thus they try more and more to explain what to them seems obvious but still isnt bought into by the other fan base. So they try to EXPLAIN IT AND EXPLAIN IT AND EXPLAIN IT ad nauseum until the inevitable happens....they simply are invited to stay the hell away.

I agree 100%

 

[Scholz]

Still lying. You said completely abandon the run. You're a proven liar.

And now you're adding more lies. We didn't pass far more.

 

[NDAFArly]

Farely....I think you pretty well nailed it....good job.

* correct on the special teams...we were so damned bad there last year, we will be improved simply by the fact it is no longer still last year.

* you left out the part where it will be hotter than hell in Austin

I just think some ND fans are passionate but like to beat the dead horse. Even if they are right, they lose the point in the debate by not letting it go.

 

[TheDecker]

You know what Spur....I would like to know that myself.....and for that matter....I would like to know how many "starters" Decker thinks ND had last year. The math doesnt add up.

When you lose starters from the 2013 and/or 2014 season(s) to injury and have to replace them with someone new of the 2015 season.....and then the previously injured starter returns for the 2016 season..............

It's very possible to have more than 22 total starters when adding up starters lost from the 2015 season plus starters returned for the 2016 season

ND's DT position would be an example of this:
Sheldon Day - 2015 Starter, lost to the NFL
Jarron Jones - 2013 and 2014 Starter, injured for all of 2015, returns for 2016
Daniel Cage - 2015 starter, in place of the injured Jones

So ND returns 2 starters at DT, despite losing a starter to the NFL


ND has had RIDICULOUS injuries in 2014 and 2015, so this occurred at several positions
(QB, RB, TE, DT, S and depending on your definitions CB, OT, and LB)

 

[Scholz]

Waaaaaa

 

[TheDecker]

No clue, they returned 19 starters on offense and defense in 2015. I think he likes to count Special Teams. I only look at Offense and Defense. Now, when it comes to Special Teams, they do return a freshman AA kicker. ;-)

http://ndsmcobserver.com/2016/04/notre-dame-football-new-starters/

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...-experience-lsu-ohio-state-tennessee-stanford

I explained this in an earlier post, but to break it down specifically

You can "count" this however you'd like, but this is the specifics of what we return:

Offense
Deshone Kizer (QB) - 2015 Starter
Tarean Folston (RB) - 2014 Starter
Torii Hunter (WR) - 2015 Starter
Alize Jones (TE) - 2015 Starter
Mike McGlinchey (OT) - 2015 Starter
Quenton Nelson (OG) - 2015 Starter

Defense
Isaac Rochell (DE) - 2013, 2014, and 2015 Starter
Jarron Jones (DT) - 2014 Starter
Daniel cage (DT) - 2015 Starter
James Onwaulu (LB) - 2014 and 2015 Starter
Cole Luke (CB) - 2014 and 2015 Starter
Max Redfield (FS) - 2014 and 2015 Starter

Special Teams
Justin Yoon (PK) - 2015 Starter
Tyler Newsome (P) - 2015 Starter
CJ Sanders (PR and KR) - 2015 Starter
Scott Daly (LS) - 2013, 2014 and 2015 Starter

Guys with previous starts, but who I wouldn't personally call a full-fledged "returning starter"
Malik Zaire - QB
Josh Adams - RB
Durham Smythe - TE
Alex Bars - OT
Andrew Trumbetti - DE
Jerry Tillery - DT
Nyles Morgan - LB
Nick Watkins - CB
Devin Butler - CB
Dru Tranquil - SS

 

[TheDecker]

Wait...... but but Decker said the ND wr's vs the Texas DBs was a push at best..... someone needs to inform him that he is indeed wrong again.

From what I know and read, Texas has multiple shut down corners capable of matching up with ANY wr in the country... and the safeties are cld as well... we all knew LB was killer with ony 1 loss from last year.... but to hear decker tell it, we are lucky to even get a "push" nod on any category... I mean hell if he decided to put up the Fighting Irish Mascot vs Bevo in terms of what mascot better represented Texas, he would argue that it would be a push at best for Bevo, if not a landslide for the domers.... everyone loves ND.... funny how everyone hates their fans though......

You want to term your CB's "lockdown" after they failed to lockdown almost any competent opponent for all of 2015........and thus are very unproven

But you won't respect ND's WRs, because despite they're obvious talent/potential, most haven't produced significantly in CFB games yet.........and thus are very unproven

But you think this is consistent/reasonable??
(this is exactly the type of thing I wanted to point out and discuss, because it's one of the key differences in how we see the game)




Explain this to me, and then we can move onto the RB/LB discussion

 

[TheDecker]

Still lying. You said completely abandon the run. You're a proven liar.

And now you're adding more lies. We didn't pass far more.

May want to go back and check the stats

15 passes v. 11 runs in the 2nd half for Texas, by my count

So yes, you did abandon the run

 

[Scholz]

Whatever guy. You've shown your complete lack of character here. Maybe you actually believe your BS which is even worse.

We ran the ball 24 times while playing from behind. You're a d bag liar.

 

[NDAFArly]

Going way, way back to the beginning I predicted 30-17, which was a +22 for Texas from last year, & people went crazy at me.

I thought I was being pretty fare, giving Texas a more than three TD improvement.

But I was told I was an over-confident ND Dbag. Lol.

But people predicting Texas by 14 (so almost a 50 point improvement) were perfectly just in their prediction? So I asked for reasons.

I think that started all the player breakdowns. And it grew from there.

 

[TexExSpur]

Ive got ND by 10 and they only return 5 true starters on O and 5 true starters on D.

 

[TexExSpur]

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/6/17/11940866/texas-longhorns-dbu-holton-hill-davante-davis

Texas plays in a prolific passing conference, they got plenty of practice last year... That's for sure.

 

[NDAFArly]

Ive got ND by 10 and they only return 5 true starters on O and 5 true starters on D.

Yeah, I'm a true ND guy through & through, but I can't even define what a returning starter for ND is from last year? Lol

It can be multiple ways with all the injuries. I guess I can give the three different ways & you can tell me what you think is a starter?

1) Was starter in past seasons, slotted as starter in spring, injured in spring, missed whole season
2 ) Actually started game 1 regardless of depth chart before injuries
3) Finished season as starter, after all the injuries had more starts than original starter

Those are three totally different numbers depending on which way you classify a returning starter?

I've seen the 5 & 5 number a bunch, but can't figure out how they chose it because it uses two of the above. It says we lost our starting RB (Procise), but our starter was actually Folson before injury (so Procise started most games) but then says Zaire was our starting QB (even though Kizer started most games). So it changes the criteria? Then you had someone like Bars who started multiple games at different OLine positions, but not considered a starter last year?

So I guess tell me which criteria you think & I can tell you how many starters come back? Lol

 

[TexExSpur]

My take is based off scouts, no need for guessing or assumptions.

Fun read. Here's an attached data freaks value of true returning starters... Based on data points and not calculating the guesswork based on findings.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...-experience-lsu-ohio-state-tennessee-stanford

I mean this guy loves his statistics for you recruiting, chest thumpers.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...ge-football-recruiting-improvement-tcu-baylor

Which all lead him to these rankings:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...88/2016-college-football-rankings-projections

Fascinating stuff.

Their favorable view of the Domers:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...re-dame-football-2016-preview-schedule-roster

I'm thinking 8 wins with the favorable schedule.

And then there's Texas and by golly I agree with his win total at 7, 8 if they sneak by the Domers.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...2/texas-football-2016-preview-schedule-roster

 

[NDAFArly]

My take is based off scouts, no need for guessing or assumptions.

I ask because those scouts, for example, have
Folson as a returning non-starter. They have Jones as a returning non-starter. They have Smythe as a returning non-starter.
All three were season-long starters in 2014, were going to be starters in 2015 before injuries. They all are back.
That would be the same as saying if Malik Jefferson got hurt tomorrow & missed all 2016, he wouldn't be a returning starter in 2017 technically?
Looking at it that way it would be 7 & 6.
It really doesn't matter I guess?

The one thing NDs coaches are praising this year is depth of experienced players.
Kelly mentioned that the players on this team get the honor to play at Texas, after this group had played at USC, at Michigan, at FSU, at Clemson, at Soldier Field, at Fenway Park, at Jerry World in Dallas, at Sun Devil Stadium, & even one player who was a freshman in 2012 & played in Norman against Oklahoma (30-13 Irish).

So playing in Austin is another cool atmosphere for these players. They seem to be really looking forward to it.

 

[TheDecker]

Whatever guy. You've shown your complete lack of character here. Maybe you actually believe your BS which is even worse.

We ran the ball 24 times while playing from behind. You're a d bag liar.

I like that once facts are presented to you, which ruin your case, you just say "whatever" and try to steer clear of them.

You ran the ball much more than you passed it in the 2nd half, despite being a HEAVILY run oriented team throughout the year
That's because you abandoned the run once you fell too far behind and had to play catch-up

It's as simple as that......and there is no debating it
(and calling names like a 12-year-old won't change those facts)

 

[TheDecker]

Ive got ND by 10 and they only return 5 true starters on O and 5 true starters on D.

I would be interested to hear what your definition of "true starters" is, as I think you could defend several definitions.

Do you just count people who started all 13 games in 2015?
Is 10+ games in 2015 enough?
Is having any full season as a starter good enough? (2014, 2013, etc.)
Is having 10+ starts at all good enough, regardless of season?
Is it even about previous starts? Is it instead about who produced the most at a position?

Is it just whatever an ESPN article defines it as?

I'm interested to hear how you define/value it

 

[TexExSpur]

I like that once facts are presented to you, which ruin your case, you just say "whatever" and try to steer clear of them.

You ran the ball much more than you passed it in the 2nd half, despite being a HEAVILY run oriented team throughout the year
That's because you abandoned the run once you fell too far behind and had to play catch-up

It's as simple as that......and there is no debating it
(and calling names like a 12-year-old won't change those facts)

Dude, what they did after the first game has nothing to do with the first game. Period.

They demoted the freaking play caller and changed QB's and went through trial and error to find anything that worked...

 

[TheDecker]

My take is based off scouts, no need for guessing or assumptions.

Wouldn't that make your assumptions mirror that of whoever happens to be writing whatever article your citing?
(scout, analyst, intern, or otherwise)