We've now entered the era of tugging at Michael Jordan's cape

[CS]

There's a broad context of challenging Michael Jordan's place in history that is alive right now, and Bill Laimbeer added fuel to the fire via comments made on the Dan Patrick Show.

“There’s no question I would take LeBron James,” Laimbeer said without hesitation. “He can do more. Michael Jordan could score and make big shots and look spectacular at times with wild flying dunks, but LeBron can get you 18 rebounds, get you 15 assists or score 50 if he wants to."

It's Bill Laimbeer, so you have to consider the source, but it's another voice joining the several out there already that claiming James is the superior player. I bet Bill has been sitting on this one for 20 years, just waiting for the opportunity.

 

[houstonhorn87]

People have short memories. Jordan is the GOAT

 

[deronjohn]

Yeah all those guys Jordan beat always hate on him. Byron Scott, Entire Pistons Bad Boy teams with the exception of Rodman for obvious reasons.

What makes Jordan better is that he dominated in the golden era.

I ask this to all of the Lebron Fans, could he have beaten Magic, Isiah, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Kemp/Payton in an NBA finals in 6 six games.

I doubt it and there are no teams right now that could hold a candle to the teams Jordan beat.

 

[MB-HORNS]

Lebron is incredible but I'm a Jordan guy so I am biased.

 

[houstonhorn87]

Yeah all those guys Jordan beat always hate on him. Byron Scott, Entire Pistons Bad Boy teams with the exception of Rodman for obvious reasons.

What makes Jordan better is that he dominated in the golden era.

I ask this to all of the Lebron Fans, could he have beaten Magic, Isiah, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Kemp/Payton in an NBA finals in 6 six games.

I doubt it and there are no teams right now that could hold a candle to the teams Jordan beat.

If Lebron doesn't win this year he's 2-4 in the finals. That means he'd have 2 finals appearances if he played in the west. Incredible inequity in the league is all that allowed him to even be in the finals this many times.

 

[CS]

People have short memories. Jordan is the GOAT

Jordan held the nearly universal GOAT belt for 20 years or so, and a solid 15+ after retirement (nobody should remember the Wizards years). That's a very long time for an exercise that is typically rife with recency bias. And he's probably still considered the GOAT by a majority, but that will dwindle over time. It's inevitable.

 

[UT Big Daddy]

I disagree that there is much of this alive right now as compared to other times. People tried to say Kobe was Jordan for years.

 

[CS]

If Lebron doesn't win this year he's 2-4 in the finals. That means he'd have 2 finals appearances if he played in the west. Incredible inequity in the league is all that allowed him to even be in the finals this many times.

Nobody will remember/care a year from now, if he's back for a seventh Finals. We're not even 12 months removed from unknown Kawhi Leonard eating his lunch in the Finals, and nobody cares about that.

 

[RLong68]

Great point there Bill. Because obviously Michael was incapable of getting 15 dimes, 18 assists or 50 points even if he wanted.

 

[houstonhorn87]

Jordan held the nearly universal GOAT belt for 20 years or so, and a solid 15+ after retirement (nobody should remember the Wizards years). That's a very long time for an exercise that is typically rife with recency bias. And he's probably still considered the GOAT by a majority, but that will dwindle over time. It's inevitable.

Im sure. Its literally impossible for anyone to ever mean more to the game than MJ though. Popularity explosion during that time isn't going to be able to be replicated

 

[RLong68]

I disagree that there is much of this alive right now as compared to other times. People tried to say Kobe was Jordan for years.

No reasonable person would have said that. Kobe was a terrific player. He was never really close to MJ. As a singular player James is a MUCH better player than Kobe ever was. James essentially is what a MJ/Magic love child would be.

 

[unclejemimah]

I thought it was funny that he said Jordan wouldn't have been able to lead this Cavs team to the finals. LOL...

 

[CS]

I disagree that there is much of this alive right now as compared to other times. People tried to say Kobe was Jordan for years.

I don't remember anyone seriously debating that Kobe was better than Jordan. Even the most rabid Kobe fan bois would only argue he was just as good. Essentially nobody in the mainstream or associated with the sport argued for Kobe over Jordan, at least to my recollection. This feels very different with LeBron.

 

[GT-59]

The East is just so bad it is tough to look past it, whether deserved or not

 

[CS]

Im sure. Its literally impossible for anyone to ever mean more to the game than MJ though. Popularity explosion during that time isn't going to be able to be replicated

To be fair, though, popularizing the game globally shouldn't be a factor in who the greatest player of all time is. LeBron can't control when he entered the league and what happened before him. For the record, I think James is a top-fiver all time, but I think Jordan is better. Jordan's advanced stats eclipse James' in most cases, and that's with Jordan's declining years factored in and James' not yet on the record. That's before you get to Jordan's 6-0 record in the Finals, with six Finals MVPs. That's his trump card.

 

[RLong68]

Im sure. Its literally impossible for anyone to ever mean more to the game than MJ though. Popularity explosion during that time isn't going to be able to be replicated

Magic/Bird saved the league, not MJ. By the time the Bulls became worth a flip ('87-ish), the league was a half-decade into a renaissance.

 

[BondLoungeHorn]

No reasonable person would have said that. Kobe was a terrific player. He was never really close to MJ. As a singular player James is a MUCH better player than Kobe ever was. James essentially is what a MJ/Magic love child would be.

Couldn't agree more. As far as MJ he's the GOAT of any sport.

 

[jttexas05]

There's a phenomenon that plagues many sports fan where greatness of former players is easily forgotten because they aren't on television anymore.

It reminds me of people who wanted to put Cam Newton or Johnny Manziel ahead of VY simply because they were the "it" players during their time and low IQ mouth-breather is lazy.

 

[CS]

Here's another voice.

I particularly enjoy this line:

"And I'll say it again: Jordan is not James, not the same leader, not the same floor presence, not the same basketball genius."

Wow. A statement like that would have been unfathomable five years ago. I really sense that people have been waiting for the opportunity to start attacking Jordan's legacy, and it's coming to a head right now.

 

[LARC]

Jordan is the GOAT, I agree but claiming Lebron is a more versatile player and placing a high value on that versatility, isn't an unreasonable stance, imo. I would take Jordan over any player I've ever seen in my lifetime (I'm 27) but Lebron would be a reasonably close 2nd.

 

[RLong68]

There's a phenomenon that plagues many sports fan where greatness of former players is easily forgotten because they aren't on television anymore.

It reminds me of people who wanted to put Cam Newton or Johnny Manziel ahead of VY simply because they were the "it" players during their time and low IQ mouth-breather is lazy.

Yep. However, in his defense, Lebron is a far cry from Cam or Manziel.

 

[discostu007]

The biggest difference I see between the two is mental makeup.

The only person who I can see has ever come close to matching Jordan's competitiveness and all out need to win is Kobe. Kobe just wasn't as good as Jordan.

If Lebron was able to harness the cut-throat, win at all cost attitude of Jordan or even Kobe, he could have been the greatest. His physical attributes and talent exceed that of Jordan, but his mental makeup prevents him from reaching Jordan't greatness.

Just my opinion.

 

[houstonhorn87]

Magic/Bird saved the league, not MJ. By the time the Bulls became worth a flip ('87-ish), the league was a half-decade into a renaissance.

Bird and Magic may have started it but MJ took it to another level. MJ was a phenomenon on another level from anyone else. Air Jordan, Be like Mike, etc. much more global

 

[Pho King Master]

Doesn't Lebron shoot a ridiculously low percentage outside the paint? Wouldn't this suggest his game is going to take a huge hit in the next couple years as his athleticism deteriorates?

Also, how can anyone argue Lebron is better when he couldn't win more championships on a dream team and his overall Finals record is at best 2-4 after this year, while Jordan's is 6-0? As others have pointed out, the East is ridiculously weak.

 

[jcook10]

I wonder how much peoples view of LeBron would differ if he played in the West his entire career and didnt make the finals every season.

 

[smileartisan]

Great point there Bill. Because obviously Michael was incapable of getting 15 dimes, 18 assists or 50 points even if he wanted.

Yeah. Michael only averaged 33.4 pts, 6.4 boards, and 5.7 assists in the playoffs. Btw, all three of those were higher than his regular season average.

 

[CS]

I also like how people are touting how LeBron has carried a "bad" Cleveland team to the Finals this year. A bad team that includes:

Kyrie Irving (21.5 PER)
Kevin Love (18.8 PER)
Timofey Mozgov (18.7 PER)

We think of the '90s Bulls rosters as great because they won titles. They were not radically different than the '15 Cavaliers if you look at the numbers. Kyrie Irvin is more or less Scottie Pippen. Kevin Love is basically Horace Grant. Chicago never had a fourth wheel as good as Timofey Mozgov.

 

[UTJRod7]

There's a broad context of challenging Michael Jordan's place in history that is alive right now, and Bill Laimbeer added fuel to the fire via comments made on the Dan Patrick Show.

“There’s no question I would take LeBron James,” Laimbeer said without hesitation. “He can do more. Michael Jordan could score and make big shots and look spectacular at times with wild flying dunks, but LeBron can get you 18 rebounds, get you 15 assists or score 50 if he wants to."

It's Bill Laimbeer, so you have to consider the source, but it's another voice joining the several out there already that claiming James is the superior player. I bet Bill has been sitting on this one for 20 years, just waiting for the opportunity.

The problem I have with this is that Laimbeer is underselling Jordan's greatest trait (or whatever you want to call it), which is answering challenges. I remember Portland was yapping before the 92 finals that Jordan was just a driver and could only score (basically saying he was a better Dominque WIlkins) and that they were going to take that away from him and make him beat them with other way, then Jordan responded in game 1 with 6-10 from 3 and 11 assists.

 

[MongoLikeTD]

It's Bill Laimbeer for christstake.

 

[houstonhorn87]

Doesn't Lebron shoot a ridiculously low percentage outside the paint? Wouldn't this suggest his game is going to take a huge hit in the next couple years as his athleticism deteriorates?

Also, how can anyone argue Lebron is better when he couldn't win more championships on a dream team and his overall Finals record is 2-4, while Jordan's is 6-0? As others have pointed out, the East is ridiculously weak.

I want to say he was 4-26 from outside in the Hawks series. Something to that effect, but that may have been through just 3 games instead of 4. Pretty close either way, and terrible percentage

 

[jttexas05]

Yep. However, in his defense, Lebron is a far cry from Cam or Manziel.

Maybe not the best analogy, just trying to point out that people go full retard on these types of debates.

At least LeBron will go down as one of the best ever, but I'm not taking a guy who has 1/3 of the championships.

 

[nbhorn81]

The biggest difference I see between the two is mental makeup.

The only person who I can see has ever come close to matching Jordan's competitiveness and all out need to win is Kobe. Kobe just wasn't as good as Jordan.

If Lebron was able to harness the cut-throat, win at all cost attitude of Jordan or even Kobe, he could have been the greatest. His physical attributes and talent exceed that of Jordan, but his mental makeup prevents him from reaching Jordan't greatness.

Just my opinion.

Nailed it! Jordan's will to win is what separates him from so many that have come after him.

 

[FriscoWolf]

The biggest difference I see between the two is mental makeup.

The only person who I can see has ever come close to matching Jordan's competitiveness and all out need to win is Kobe. Kobe just wasn't as good as Jordan.

If Lebron was able to harness the cut-throat, win at all cost attitude of Jordan or even Kobe, he could have been the greatest. His physical attributes and talent exceed that of Jordan, but his mental makeup prevents him from reaching Jordan't greatness.

Just my opinion.

Agree with this. There has been too many times that it appears that Lebron has quit or was totally taken out of games. I don't ever remember that with Jordan and I was not a Jordan fan.

 

[98horn]

I think Lebron is the best all around basketball player I've ever seen, but his scoring is probably the weakest part of his game, although an all-time great. With the game on the line, I find it hard to believe that anyone would take Lebron over MJ. This is purely based on the eyeball test as I find it difficult to compare the eras.

There are a few guys besides MJ that I'd rather have with the ball at the end of the game in their primes including Duncan, Hakeem, Jabaar, and Kobe.

 

[PureTexan]

Remember that time Jordan lost in the finals? Neither do I.

Jason Terry helped make Lebron look silly in 2011 and he played hot potato with the ball while disappearing late in games. That series alone eliminates the comparison.