Free edumacation fo po folks

[Son of Wasatch]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-free-tuition-low-income-students/1688445001/

Texas just dropped a hammer on every University out there. I think this was a long time coming. Now I want to see how other Universities respond to this.

Now lets look at this from a sports point of view.

Do you realize how they can use this to their advantage? Yes Mr Poor inner-city star athlete. We will give you a scholarship and bring along your girl or closest friends, as long as they poor too we will give them a free ride also.

yes Mr Poor inner-City 3'star. We don't have the room to bring you on scholarship but you poor and well Our University is free, why don't you become a preferred walk on here and enjoy all the perks of being on scholarship.

Let's see any other school pull this off! I can think of maybe two schools that can do it. Aggsy and Stanford.

 

[westx]

I wonder if this "promise" contains a marriage penalty and incentivizes single parenthood just like the Medicaid system.

 

[2300 Nueces]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-free-tuition-low-income-students/1688445001/

Texas just dropped a hammer on every University out there. I think this was a long time coming. Now I want to see how other Universities respond to this.

Now lets look at this from a sports point of view.

Do you realize how they can use this to their advantage? Yes Mr Poor inner-city star athlete. We will give you a scholarship and bring along your girl or closest friends, as long as they poor too we will give them a free ride also.

yes Mr Poor inner-City 3'star. We don't have the room to bring you on scholarship but you poor and well Our University is free, why don't you become a preferred walk on here and enjoy all the perks of being on scholarship.

Let's see any other school pull this off! I can think of maybe two schools that can do it. Aggsy and Stanford.

Nebraska is trying to do this and resurrect their walk on program but they aren't using oil and gas royalties from state properties/endowments. I can see UT beefing up the walk on program with this. While there could be an athletics component of this, the University is trying to subsidize over priced faculty.

***Lockdown Alert***

In the long run, expensive state sponsored school is going to go away. The universities are getting nervous. They are afraid of losing their primo $$ positions/professions. They are looking to subsidize their lifestyles with public funds. It won't last. Online programs are going to take over. GCU currently costs 5k per semester and kids can work and live at home if needed to complete degree and graduate debt free. The estimated amount for UT Austin is 14k per semester which is prolly low considering the costs of "hanging out with friends". The decentralized formats are going to greatly out perform the centralized.... the rent seekers making money off of university students is a business model ripe for disruption.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-free-tuition-low-income-students/1688445001/

Texas just dropped a hammer on every University out there. I think this was a long time coming. Now I want to see how other Universities respond to this.

Now lets look at this from a sports point of view.

Do you realize how they can use this to their advantage? Yes Mr Poor inner-city star athlete. We will give you a scholarship and bring along your girl or closest friends, as long as they poor too we will give them a free ride also.

yes Mr Poor inner-City 3'star. We don't have the room to bring you on scholarship but you poor and well Our University is free, why don't you become a preferred walk on here and enjoy all the perks of being on scholarship.

Let's see any other school pull this off! I can think of maybe two schools that can do it. Aggsy and Stanford.

Not nice talking about poor people.....just saying....there is a lotta poor people, not athletes that are very smart that just need that exta step to get them towards something they have dreamed of besides FB , a Degree and a good job and to get outa the bad places they live

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Not nice talking about poor people.....just saying....there is a lotta poor people, not athletes that are very smart that just need that exta step to get them towards something they have dreamed of besides FB , a Degree and a good job and to get outa the Ghetto

Yes, mom, I'm sorry.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Ya bro, not nice.

 

[SouthOsooner]

There are a lot of po folks in small towns and rural areas also.

 

[speedstrength]

Nebraska is trying to do this and resurrect their walk on program but they aren't using oil and gas royalties from state properties/endowments. I can see UT beefing up the walk on program with this. While there could be an athletics component of this, the University is trying to subsidize over priced faculty.

***Lockdown Alert***

In the long run, expensive state sponsored school is going to go away. The universities are getting nervous. They are afraid of losing their primo $$ positions/professions. They are looking to subsidize their lifestyles with public funds. It won't last. Online programs are going to take over. GCU currently costs 5k per semester and kids can work and live at home if needed to complete degree and graduate debt free. The estimated amount for UT Austin is 14k per semester which is prolly low considering the costs of "hanging out with friends". The decentralized formats are going to greatly out perform the centralized.... the rent seekers making money off of university students is a business model ripe for disruption.

Online education isn't cheaper to deliver until you can reach scale. Start up cost are pretty high and the Learning Management Systems like Canvas and Blackboard are pretty pricey. Schools like GCU, Southern New Hampshire, and Western Governors University spend a lot to acquire students. Performance of those students is mixed. The ones that succeed are typically older, obtained college credit but dropped out to enter the work force and need the degree for career advancement. First time college students do very poorly in online only programs. Dropout rates can be as high as 70 % for some demographics. Community colleges are much cheaper. 12 hours runs less 2k or less depending on courses fees. They also have much higher retention rates than the online schools.

 

[mm42]

The cost of college is ridiculous. My fear is that making college free for some will only make it more expensive for others.

We are lucky to live in a country where folks getting so many of their wants/needs for free are so grateful to those providing it. Would be totally different if they hated those paying for their free stuff.... wait a minute.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Online education isn't cheaper to deliver until you can reach scale. Start up cost are pretty high and the Learning Management Systems like Canvas and Blackboard are pretty pricey. Schools like GCU, Southern New Hampshire, and Western Governors University spend a lot to acquire students. Performance of those students is mixed. The ones that succeed are typically older, obtained college credit but dropped out to enter the work force and need the degree for career advancement. First time college students do very poorly in online only programs. Dropout rates can be as high as 70 % for some demographics. Community colleges are much cheaper. 12 hours runs less 2k or less depending on courses fees. They also have much higher retention rates than the online schools.

I would expect the dropout rate to be that high. The dropout rate at UT was somewhat high when I was there and those kids had high SAT scores in comparison to those at online schools. It comes down to discipline. School should be treated like an 8-10 hour a day job, yet 30% don't even go to class.

 

[speedstrength]

I would expect the dropout rate to be that high. The dropout rate at UT was somewhat high when I was there and those kids had high SAT scores in comparison to those at online schools. It comes down to discipline. School should be treated like an 8-10 hour a day job, yet 30% don't even go to class.

Dropout at UT is very low. 93% make it to the second year. UT Austin's Graduation 4 year graduation rate is 70%, its 6 year is almost 85%. There isn't an online school that comes close to that. There aren't many 4 year public or private schools that can come close to that. The only school in that state that is higher is Rice. 80% 4 year 92% 6 year and Rice is one of the highest in the Nation.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

More than half of HS in Texas don't prep students enough for college, you can make a good SAT score and still be dumber than shit, going to class is half of it and studying is the other half

 

[Belldozer1]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-free-tuition-low-income-students/1688445001/

Texas just dropped a hammer on every University out there. I think this was a long time coming. Now I want to see how other Universities respond to this.

Now lets look at this from a sports point of view.

Do you realize how they can use this to their advantage? Yes Mr Poor inner-city star athlete. We will give you a scholarship and bring along your girl or closest friends, as long as they poor too we will give them a free ride also.

yes Mr Poor inner-City 3'star. We don't have the room to bring you on scholarship but you poor and well Our University is free, why don't you become a preferred walk on here and enjoy all the perks of being on scholarship.

Let's see any other school pull this off! I can think of maybe two schools that can do it. Aggsy and Stanford.

If this was available 30 years ago perhaps I wouldn’t be in the trailer park today buying crypto on my Lonestar card. By the way, I’m want to thank all of you hard workers that allow me to stay home and do nothing but collect a check.

 

[2300 Nueces]

If this was available 30 years ago perhaps I wouldn’t be in the trailer park today buying crypto on my Lonestar card. By the way, I’m want to thank all of you hard workers that allow me to stay home and do nothing but collect a check.

I'm on the way. I got a keg of natty and some refer. Hope you got the rollin paper.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Dropout at UT is very low. 93% make it to the second year. UT Austin's Graduation 4 year graduation rate is 70%, its 6 year is almost 85%. There isn't an online school that comes close to that. There aren't many 4 year public or private schools that can come close to that. The only school in that state that is higher is Rice. 80% 4 year 92% 6 year and Rice is one of the highest in the Nation.

Gotcha, I remember a few partying too hard and not making the grades. I don't have percentages. Funny thing, my business is essentially capital management. I use money to make more. Anyway, my business degree helped but it left much to be desired in real life knowledge.

 

[speedstrength]

More than half of HS in Texas don't prep students enough for college, you can make a good SAT score and still be dumber than shit, going to class is half of it and studying is the other half

Its worse than that. College readiness as a whole is at 55% if you group the students that come from the 25% of households with the lowest incomes its 13%

 

[clob94]

If this was available 30 years ago perhaps I wouldn’t be in the trailer park today buying crypto on my Lonestar card. By the way, I’m want to thank all of you hard workers that allow me to stay home and do nothing but collect a check.

Omg with your "I'm poor" pandering. Keep this up and I'm driving out to your compound and taking a photo of it so these dudes can all see the 4500 square feet of living space your "double wide" has.

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

We were not of the rich folk......Thank goodness for having 2 jobs, a H-H loan, and able to cash out insurance policies that my parents got for me to pay for my UT college days (2.5 years, jr college before that saved $). And to my apartment buddies- one's dad mailed us tortillas, one cooked the beans (and won us free beer at trivia night at Uncle Stanleys Dobie Mall) and I supplied venison and beef (dad was a butcher and always made a "care package".

 

[Drtxhorn]

As long as student loans are ridiculously easy to obtain, the cost of tuition will always skyrocket. Easy availability of college money is not the solution to the rising cost of college.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Eliminate half of all campuses, eliminate worthless courses and the "professors" teaching them, reallocate resources to quality trade schools and apprenticeship programs.
I know that's crazy thinking but to be honest a 4yr degree today is worth less than a high school diploma was 25yrs ago. The push that EVERYONE needs to have a degree to be successful has diluted the market and killed the value.

I believe Mike Rowe showed a study that other than doctor, lawyer, and certain advanced scientist, a person who goes to a trade school right out of grade school earns nearly twice as much as someone with a 4yr degree over a 30yr career. Obviously debt load is a big contributer to this.

I feel like there's too much emphasis on just having a degree verses obtaining a marketable degree that pays for itself and then some.

Many tech companies put you through their own paid in house programs for a couple yrs with a 2yr employment contract upon completion. I truly believe most degrees should be for career advancement, not entry level coffee maker.

 

[Drtxhorn]

Far too many degree programs offer no marketable skill at all. Rec studies, gender studies, latino studies, LGBTQ studies, etc, etc.. For those who don't have the ability to master a skill or a craft, colleges need to at least offer them a program option where they can read, write and think at the highest level possible.

 

[lokibert69]

I believe Mike Rowe showed a study that other than doctor, lawyer, and certain advanced scientist, a person who goes to a trade school right out of grade school earns nearly twice as much as someone with a 4yr degree over a 30yr career. Obviously debt load is a big contributer to this.

I'm sure this is likely when you account for the costs and not juts the income side of it. The problem is that 30 years gets you to age 52. With people living into their 80s, they need to be able to work well into their 60s or even early 70s. I didn't hit my stride until about 42ish. All the stats about the trade person were likely right. No chance anymore and the trajectory and ability to save will continue to make my college and UT MBA decision far better.

The earlier poster who suggested canning ridiculous degrees is definitely onto it. When you rack up $100k of debt and get a degree in early 18th century Russian poetry, don't be upset when you can't find a job.

 

[speedstrength]

Eliminate half of all campuses, eliminate worthless courses and the "professors" teaching them, reallocate resources to quality trade schools and apprenticeship programs.
I know that's crazy thinking but to be honest a 4yr degree today is worth less than a high school diploma was 25yrs ago. The push that EVERYONE needs to have a degree to be successful has diluted the market and killed the value.

I believe Mike Rowe showed a study that other than doctor, lawyer, and certain advanced scientist, a person who goes to a trade school right out of grade school earns nearly twice as much as someone with a 4yr degree over a 30yr career. Obviously debt load is a big contributer to this.

I feel like there's too much emphasis on just having a degree verses obtaining a marketable degree that pays for itself and then some.

Many tech companies put you through their own paid in house programs for a couple yrs with a 2yr employment contract upon completion. I truly believe most degrees should be for career advancement, not entry level coffee maker.

That's not even close to being true.
Electrician median salary 54,000. 30 year earnings at the median level are 1.62 million
Plumber median salary 52,000 30 year earnings 1.56
Accountant median salary 69,000, 30 year earnings 2.1 million.
CPA median salary 73,000, 30 year earnings 2.18 million
Teacher median salary 59,000, 30 year earnings 1.77 million
Analytical Chemist median salary 71,000, 30 year earnings 2.13 million

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

Why don't we just eliminate all the poor people and make Soyet Green outa them

 

[OldHornInPA]

That's not even close to being true.
Electrician median salary 54,000. 30 year earnings at the median level are 1.62 million
Plumber median salary 52,000 30 year earnings 1.56
Accountant median salary 69,000, 30 year earnings 2.1 million.
CPA median salary 73,000, 30 year earnings 2.18 million
Teacher median salary 59,000, 30 year earnings 1.77 million
Analytical Chemist median salary 71,000, 30 year earnings 2.13 million

Now figure in what a SJW (or even a social worker) makes over their career.
How about English Literature, or Gender Studies? There are plenty of useless college degrees being handed out nowadays. And students are making the choice to go heavily into debt to pursue them. There is nothing wrong with being an electrician, plumber, HVAC tech, mechanic. Those skills are needed.

 

[2300 Nueces]

That's not even close to being true.
Electrician median salary 54,000. 30 year earnings at the median level are 1.62 million
Plumber median salary 52,000 30 year earnings 1.56
Accountant median salary 69,000, 30 year earnings 2.1 million.
CPA median salary 73,000, 30 year earnings 2.18 million
Teacher median salary 59,000, 30 year earnings 1.77 million
Analytical Chemist median salary 71,000, 30 year earnings 2.13 million

Everything is a trade, basically. Some are more labor intensive than others. Labor over time really takes a toll on the body and so does the sun. In an economy with a stable medium of exchange, these people would earn a lot more than they currently earn because their labor would not be stolen by inflation.

Most people do not understand the time value of money or compound interest. It doesn't matter how much one earns if one spends more than he or she earns. When a person is a spender, they are actually decreasing their futures earnings by an exponential factor through interest payments on debt incurred.

On the flip side, if one is a saver, he or she is increasing future earnings by the savings rate. In today's economy, a savings account is actually a slower form of income destruction by the inflation rate - savings acct interest rate. One has to become informed on investing in assets which does carry significant risk to one's capital.

WHEN I WAS AT UT, THEY DID NOT TEACH THIS SUCCESSFULLY. I had to learn from a expert in the field of trading. My mentor was a retired Australian who worked for the banks in Singapore on their trading floors. He trained their traders. I paid a pretty sum for this and my study time was 2 years and I am doing well. So yes, I write algorithms etc... but I operate them manually not comp software. I also have 2 small businesses (1. I design and build custom homes. Family business. 2. I have an e-commerce business on ebay that is easy to operate.) which pay the bills and create savings which I dump into my algos and pay off my house.

My route has been unconventional and difficult at times. I ditched the route of my degree plan but I still use it somewhat. I originally worked for JP Morgan Chase in finance but really hated it. It paid a lot but did not offer much freedom. I enjoy what I do now, just trying to make more time to enjoy life. So, if one can harness compound interest and use his/her savings, there are options outside the standard life plan. None of what I am doing requires a college degree and an electrician could do the same.

 

[speedstrength]

Now figure in what a SJW (or even a social worker) makes over their career.
How about English Literature, or Gender Studies? There are plenty of useless college degrees being handed out nowadays. And students are making the choice to go heavily into debt to pursue them. There is nothing wrong with being an electrician, plumber, HVAC tech, mechanic. Those skills are needed.

I was simply pointing out that trades do not earn double that of what a college graduate makes.

Social worker median salary is 57,000 so more than most trades. English is a tough one because they work in many different areas but you could look at something like a copy editor at 45,000, web based copy editor at 58000. The other thing that people fail to consider is rich kid degrees. Well off students go major in what ever and then use their parents connections to get jobs. I am looking at you fashion merchandising. The other thing is looking at degrees like psychology and philosophy. Most kids in those majors go on to some type of professional or graduate program and use the degree to prep them for graduate school. Some kids don't even use their degrees. I had a college athlete with a solid 2.6 GPA in kinesiology. The kid was good looking, confident and articulate and landed a sales job selling tech stuff. His first year he made more than me.

 

[speedstrength]

The 57,000 was for a licensed social worker. The median for all social workers is 48,000

 

[Son of Wasatch]

That's not even close to being true.
Electrician median salary 54,000. 30 year earnings at the median level are 1.62 million
Plumber median salary 52,000 30 year earnings 1.56
Accountant median salary 69,000, 30 year earnings 2.1 million.
CPA median salary 73,000, 30 year earnings 2.18 million
Teacher median salary 59,000, 30 year earnings 1.77 million
Analytical Chemist median salary 71,000, 30 year earnings 2.13 million

All those numbers are about 99% based on people who work for other people. Honestly jobs are much much more lucrative working for yourself. The Median salary in my profession is about 60K a year. However, working as an independent contractor I make well over 100K. My trainer is also training about 3 other guys is making well over 300K a year.

I've found that it really doesn't matter what you get your Bachelor's degree in as long as you follow it up with certification in specific fields you are going into. That is all that matters. I will follow that up by saying however, your not doing yourself any favors getting a degree in basket weaving if your not taking specific classes in business such as management or accounting. Even a doctor or Engineer needs these classes so at some point they can be business savy.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

I was simply pointing out that trades do not earn double that of what a college graduate makes.

Social worker median salary is 57,000 so more than most trades. English is a tough one because they work in many different areas but you could look at something like a copy editor at 45,000, web based copy editor at 58000. The other thing that people fail to consider is rich kid degrees. Well off students go major in what ever and then use their parents connections to get jobs. I am looking at you fashion merchandising. The other thing is looking at degrees like psychology and philosophy. Most kids in those majors go on to some type of professional or graduate program and use the degree to prep them for graduate school. Some kids don't even use their degrees. I had a college athlete with a solid 2.6 GPA in kinesiology. The kid was good looking, confident and articulate and landed a sales job selling tech stuff. His first year he made more than me.

Nothing is absolute but I think there may be some merit to that study.
For every 1 "quality" degree graduate there are easily 10 graduating with not much more than a paper on the wall and tens of thousands in debt with no realistic career path.
I am in no way down playing the potential value of a degree but not all are created equal. Especially when first entering the real world.

There is a lot more to consider than just median wage comparison. For example, my company pays our welders from $85-$130/hr with as many hours a week as you want to tackle. With zero experience you can take a 6 month welding course ending with certification for 8-15k and be hired before you graduate.18...19...20yr olds making $1000/day.
I have a degree as well but have never benefitted from it. I got my A&P certification (airframe & powerplant) and made $35/hr + $20/hr per diem right out the door. I didn't like having to chase contracts every 2-3yrs so now I am home working the Eagle Ford. No, I don't lift, hammer, or dig anything. I've actually got a suuuuuper easy job & wish I'd known it existed years ago.

My point is you have to figure in the debt difference and more importantly the 4+ yrs a tradesperson has already been earning a paycheck, work experience, seniority building, and potential savings/investing done before a college grad ever enters the workforce and starts to pay off student debt.

Again it's just a generalization and not everyone has the same good or bad outcome. I'm sure someone out there is making bank with an underwater basket weaving theory degree.

 

[Bwilk55]

Nothing is absolute but I think there may be some merit to that study.
For every 1 "quality" degree graduate there are easily 10 graduating with not much more than a paper on the wall and tens of thousands in debt with no realistic career path.
I am in no way down playing the potential value of a degree but not all are created equal. Especially when first entering the real world.

There is a lot more to consider than just median wage comparison. For example, my company pays our welders from $85-$130/hr with as many hours a week as you want to tackle. With zero experience you can take a 6 month welding course ending with certification for 8-15k and be hired before you graduate.18...19...20yr olds making $1000/day.
I have a degree as well but have never benefitted from it. I got my A&P certification (airframe & powerplant) and made $35/hr + $20/hr per diem right out the door. I didn't like having to chase contracts every 2-3yrs so now I am home working the Eagle Ford. No, I don't lift, hammer, or dig anything. I've actually got a suuuuuper easy job & wish I'd known it existed years ago.

My point is you have to figure in the debt difference and more importantly the 4+ yrs a tradesperson has already been earning a paycheck, work experience, seniority building, and potential savings/investing done before a college grad ever enters the workforce and starts to pay off student debt.

Again it's just a generalization and not everyone has the same good or bad outcome. I'm sure someone out there is making bank with an underwater basket weaving theory degree.

As a doctor many end up with a lot of debt. Fortunately there is a pay off but the typical path is - 4 years of college at 40k/yr (fortunately mine was paid via Texas tomorrow fund and extra parental help), 4 years of medical school at 40k/yr (I had a scholarship for 3 years!), and then 3-7 years making 50-60k during residency. It is not until you are age 30 minimum, and for many mid to late 30s that you start bringing in 200k plus salary. At that age, you are unlikely to have been able to buy a house, haven't been able to save for retirement and could easily have 500k in debt. You've lost 10 years of potential compound interest growth on retirement savings and real estate market growth.

I'm not complaining, and I think folks that are smart about it should be able to be just fine with a career in medicine but it takes a lot to get to the point of practicing fully and making a full physician's salary. You often start off in a major hole financially. I'm thankful for my parents for putting me through undergrad and the National Health Service Corp for providing me a scholarship. Also, my wife for working hard while I was in school and residency to help us so much financially.

The numbers I used above are for relatively cheaper institutions as well, go to a private college or medical school and those numbers are much higher.

 

[speedstrength]

Nothing is absolute but I think there may be some merit to that study.
For every 1 "quality" degree graduate there are easily 10 graduating with not much more than a paper on the wall and tens of thousands in debt with no realistic career path.
I am in no way down playing the potential value of a degree but not all are created equal. Especially when first entering the real world.

There is a lot more to consider than just median wage comparison. For example, my company pays our welders from $85-$130/hr with as many hours a week as you want to tackle. With zero experience you can take a 6 month welding course ending with certification for 8-15k and be hired before you graduate.18...19...20yr olds making $1000/day.
I have a degree as well but have never benefitted from it. I got my A&P certification (airframe & powerplant) and made $35/hr + $20/hr per diem right out the door. I didn't like having to chase contracts every 2-3yrs so now I am home working the Eagle Ford. No, I don't lift, hammer, or dig anything. I've actually got a suuuuuper easy job & wish I'd known it existed years ago.

My point is you have to figure in the debt difference and more importantly the 4+ yrs a tradesperson has already been earning a paycheck, work experience, seniority building, and potential savings/investing done before a college grad ever enters the workforce and starts to pay off student debt.

Again it's just a generalization and not everyone has the same good or bad outcome. I'm sure someone out there is making bank with an underwater basket weaving theory degree.

Where is your evidence that 90% of degrees are worthless? STEM, Business, Allied Health, and Education do quite well. Humanities depends upon internships and what the student actually does with their program. There are some kids that have a 4 year degree and absolutely no job skills but its not anywhere close to 90%

When you start to aggregate data people with a Bachelors will earn more than people with an Associates, Certificate, High School Diploma. Right now times are good and there are plenty of instances where people in skilled jobs make really good money. When I was at Toyota the dudes that fixed the robots were all making well of 80,000 a year. School districts in West Texas cant find teachers because they make more money in the oil fields. Home builders in West Texas have a hard time finding construction workers because they make more in the oil fields. When times aren't so good people with degrees fair much better than those without degrees.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

As a doctor many end up with a lot of debt. Fortunately there is a pay off but the typical path is - 4 years of college at 40k/yr (fortunately mine was paid via Texas tomorrow fund and extra parental help), 4 years of medical school at 40k/yr (I had a scholarship for 3 years!), and then 3-7 years making 50-60k during residency. It is not until you are age 30 minimum, and for many mid to late 30s that you start bringing in 200k plus salary. At that age, you are unlikely to have been able to buy a house, haven't been able to save for retirement and could easily have 500k in debt. You've lost 10 years of potential compound interest growth on retirement savings and real estate market growth.

I'm not complaining, and I think folks that are smart about it should be able to be just fine with a career in medicine but it takes a lot to get to the point of practicing fully and making a full physician's salary. You often start off in a major hole financially. I'm thankful for my parents for putting me through undergrad and the National Health Service Corp for providing me a scholarship. Also, my wife for working hard while I was in school and residency to help us so much financially.

The numbers I used above are for relatively cheaper institutions as well, go to a private college or medical school and those numbers are much higher.

Wow. Couple that with Medicare paying less than cost for your service. If we end up going to a single payer system down the line it's going to be hard to get kids interested in pursuing that field. All that time, dedication, and high cost just to be short changed by the gov.
Thank you for what you do. Seriously.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Where is your evidence that 90% of degrees are worthless? STEM, Business, Allied Health, and Education do quite well. Humanities depends upon internships and what the student actually does with their program. There are some kids that have a 4 year degree and absolutely no job skills but its not anywhere close to 90%

When you start to aggregate data people with a Bachelors will earn more than people with an Associates, Certificate, High School Diploma. Right now times are good and there are plenty of instances where people in skilled jobs make really good money. When I was at Toyota the dudes that fixed the robots were all making well of 80,000 a year. School districts in West Texas cant find teachers because they make more money in the oil fields. Home builders in West Texas have a hard time finding construction workers because they make more in the oil fields. When times aren't so good people with degrees fair much better than those without degrees.

True. Lemme clarify what I am calling worthless. A degree that is not helping or opening a door for or has slim to none real world application. This mostly depends on the individual and not the degree itself as most things in life do.
I think there's waaay too many degrees for stuff that doesn't warrant a degree in order to make room for more students and more $$. I get it though. If there's a market for it, provide it. Capitalism at its most pure form.

I guess my qualm is that it's beaten into everyone's head that in order to be successful in life, you have to have a degree. So we have too many unnecessary programs were us stupid kids are encouraged to bury ourselves in debt and still end up asking if you want fries with that.

Apprenticeship, ojt, certification, trade school does a lot of us knuckleheads better off in the beginning.

As for the "for every 1, there's easily 10" statement, that obviously was not presented as a factual stat. I would have referenced the source and not used "easily". Remember, I'm just a meathead in here talking with intellectuals that have a similar sports interest.

Seriously, I'm not trying to argue with anyone on this. Everything I've said has been of my opinion minus the Mike Rowe reference but I'll take a look later to see if I can find the study he was talking about for the exact findings instead of using my foggy recollection.

 

[2300 Nueces]

True. Lemme clarify what I am calling worthless. A degree that is not helping or opening a door for or has slim to none real world application. This mostly depends on the individual and not the degree itself as most things in life do.
I think there's waaay too many degrees for stuff that doesn't warrant a degree in order to make room for more students and more $$. I get it though. If there's a market for it, provide it. Capitalism at its most pure form.

I guess my qualm is that it's beaten into everyone's head that in order to be successful in life, you have to have a degree. So we have too many unnecessary programs were us stupid kids are encouraged to bury ourselves in debt and still end up asking if you want fries with that.

Apprenticeship, ojt, certification, trade school does a lot of us knuckleheads better off in the beginning.

As for the "for every 1, there's easily 10" statement, that obviously was not presented as a factual stat. I would have referenced the source and not used "easily". Remember, I'm just a meathead in here talking with intellectuals that have a similar sports interest.

Seriously, I'm not trying to argue with anyone on this. Everything I've said has been of my opinion minus the Mike Rowe reference but I'll take a look later to see if I can find the study he was talking about for the exact findings instead of using my foggy recollection.

Anyone with Spidey senses is way past intellectual.