Kingsbury talks about Manziel

Discussion in 'Longhorn Sports' started by DHHorn, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. DHHorn

    DHHorn Well-Known Member
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    So I saw a thread on Texags talking about how Kingsbury said on some podcast how Manziel would party the night before games and miss the morning meetings or show up late. Basically nothing that people didn't already know or figured happened anyway. The thing that really made me laugh was that the texags posters automatically blamed Sumlin for not controlling players and letting them get away with whatever they wanted. They claim that is what was wrong with the teams under Sumlin and now that a real coach like Jimbo is in charge he will change the culture and all that stuff. I didn't see one poster realize or comment about the way Jimbo handled Winston's scandals and how he basically let him get away with whatever he wanted and they were far worse things than what Manziel was doing. Fisher was 10 times worse about not holding players accountable to off field issues, but they believe Jimbo is some sort of hard ass coach who won't put up with that from players. I've seen some crazy takes from aggys but this one has to take the cake for me.

    Sorry from making a thread about the aggys but it's the off season and there isn't much else to talk about and I'm bored.
     
  2. clob94

    clob94 Well-Known Member
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    Stop the presses! Johnny cocaine skipped meetings and wasn't held accountable?

    In other news, the sky is blue......

    Jimbo was their hail Mary. If he fails, aggy will be irrelevant per usual. He won't have much success next year (throw away year) and I believe won't have success until saban hangs it up..........
     
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  3. TheTR

    TheTR Well-Known Member
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    I think karma is about to unleash some severe cruelty upon the aggy nation, IMO Arky and Chad Morris are about to own their ass like they have never seen before.
     
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  4. BigBrotherAgs

    BigBrotherAgs Active Member
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    I will say that is what I have worried about as well. I don't know that he will make Arkansas great, but I could see him having Arkansas be our thorn every year and do to us what we have done to them the past how ever many years.
     
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  5. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Don't worry, it won't be as ugly as what Bama and LSU have done to you.
     
  6. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    The near term is going to be tough. Many Aggies will expect 10 wins year 1, which is not happening. I see 3 100% loses and a ton of tossups. 2019 won't be any better, with Clemson, Georgia, South Carolina and the SECW on the schedule.
    Natives will be very restless going into year 3, but nothing good is happening before then.
     
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  7. FlourBluffHorn

    FlourBluffHorn Well-Known Member
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    The Aggies should not have went over to the Big Boys playground and want to play



    Hook'em
     
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  8. diadevic

    diadevic Well-Known Member
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    Its not your fault, but -- this is the biggest problem I have with the SEC. Aggies will have been in the SEC for 8 years before they play Georgia. 8!! How can you call it a conference when you play once a decade? Regardless -- you probably won't be catching the Bulldogs at a good time in 2019. Who do you see as the 3 100% losses for this year? Alabama and who else?
     
  9. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Clemson, and that's just the 100% losses. I think he meant 3x2. Lol
     
  10. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    Alabama, Clemson, and Auburn.
     
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  11. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    You forgot South Carolina, but I think we will likely beat Ole Miss.

    We are a few years from being good, if things go well.
     
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  12. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    The Big Boy playground is not so bad, I have really enjoyed it. Playing games that start after lunch is nice, and being on channels I don't have to Google is better. But getting your ass kicked by the Big Boys is never fun.
     
  13. clob94

    clob94 Well-Known Member
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    Translation:

    I'd rather lose in prime time than win before noon.

    Come on man......... nothing but love for you but from 50,000 feet above sea level, the pragmatic view that I'm seeing, being objective, is the fact that aggy has put a huge emphasis on this hire (whether they meant to and realize it or not) and if a proven name like Jimbo doesn't get it done, there will be an internal sentiment among aggys that will come to believe it can never be done.

    It's truly, for lack of a better term, your final hail Mary. Short of hiring Jesus Christ, raising Bear Bryant from the grave or splicing DNA from Jackie Sherrell, RC Slocum and Bucky Richardson together, if this experiment doesn't work, the Albatros could be hung permanently round the neck of atm. Just think, I other coaches will say "if jimbo couldn't get it done, how am I supposed to get it done......".
     
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  14. LonghornMM

    LonghornMM Moderator
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    Exactly. aggy bit off more than they can chew by joining the $EC.
     
  15. DHHorn

    DHHorn Well-Known Member
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    I think Clob said it best on here a few months ago. Aggys are out of excuses, if Jimbo cant get it done then they can only blame themselves. High paid coach, large stadium, play in the SEC, looks like they will have good recruiting, not under big brothers shadow, and have more resources than most any other school. Time to put up or shut up.
     
  16. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    No doubt if Jimbo is a failure it will set us back longer than I want to think about. I just don't think we are going to be great the next 2 years. I am willing to give him a few years to bring in his guys, then judge him. A lot of other Aggies won't allow that time, which is stupid imo.
    You have to admit, he can recruit. And that is a huge piece of the pie. Fixing the culture will be big as well. If he does that, he will likely succeed. He is a top 5 coach in my mind. We'll see how it turns out, but I like that we went big.
     
  17. DHHorn

    DHHorn Well-Known Member
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    Fixing the culture is what I was talking about in the original post. It doesn’t seem like his culture was so great at FSU. They won games the first few years with a heisman winner and then once they started to lose a few games it seemed like things got toxic and went straight to the shitter.
     
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  18. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    Our cuture problem is being soft as hell. The entire state has the same problem imo, maybe excluding Gary Patterson's program. I sometimes wonder if it is Texas kids vs kids from the southeast states. It may not be fixable, I hope so.
     
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  19. JoeAg

    JoeAg Well-Known Member
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    Why dont we just wait and see.
     
  20. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    That's not as fun.
    Obviously you are right. No one knows how it will end up. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.
     
  21. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, won games early on with a heisman winner, then went in the shitter. Now where have I heard that story before? Did aggy just rehire Sumlin?
     
  22. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    So 10 wins is shit? Jimbo had 1 bad year, and lost his QB in game 1 for the year.
    Sumlin only won 10 games once while at A&M.

    Jimbo Wins by year
    2010 - 10 wins
    2011 - 9 wins
    2012 - 12 wins
    2013 - 14 wins
    2014 - 13 wins
    2015 - 10 wins
    2016 - 10 wins
    2017 - 5 wins

    He may or may not succeed at A&M, but pretending like his program at FSU went to shit is silly. He probably needed a change of address, but he knows what he is doing.
     
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  23. q1w2e3

    q1w2e3 Well-Known Member
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    Jimbo was handed the keys to a kingdom and did a whole bunch of less with more, and eventually imploded the castle from within. He took a dynasty and ran into the ground (5-6).

    Yes, he recruited great at FSU. He landed a generational QB. But even with that QB he was losing games by 30 points, and year by year his teams got worse and worse and worse. Jimbo walked into an incredible situation....a highly anticipated handing over the keys of a dynasty, in an at that time very very weak ACC, with the in-state rivals Miami and Florida both in a complete dumpster fire. However, he was quickly passed up by Dabo and Clemson, and it took Richt one deep breath at Miami to catch up and probably do just like Dabo and blow right by.

    Jimbo was internally becoming a mess at FSU, and getting passed up on the field as well. We still have no idea if he will be able to recruit at a high level at A&M. This is his honeymoon class and the actual football hasn't even started yet. Wait until reality sets in. Wait until Texas starts winning and Jimbo is sitting at a second tier school that's middle of the road in their conference while the in-state flagship school is getting all the glory. Wait until the media starts asking about the results that are supposed to come with that ridiculous contract.

    Well I'm looking forward to it, should be classic Aggie self destruction and meltdown.
     
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  24. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    Florida State is a prime job, no doubt. But Bowden left a lot like Mack Brown did, with a program no longer elite.

    Look at Bowden's last few years:
    2005 - 8 wins
    2006 - 7 wins
    2007 - 7 wins
    2008 - 9 wins
    2009 - 6 wins

    Fisher didn't take over prime FSU. They were ok, about as good as A&M was under Sumlin, but not anything special.

    Not sure why people act like he is an average coach, he isn't. He is very good. He will take lumps early, but he has a real chance of building an elite program. Or making a lot of money for little. Who knows.

    Not sure why you guys are so excited we landed a top coach who can really recruit.
     
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  25. q1w2e3

    q1w2e3 Well-Known Member
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    "top coach" who had embarrassing and/or blowout losses year in year out like clockwork, despite having top 5 talent. And he's not recruiting at Florida State anymore.

    The one thing he may have going for him is the SEC has significantly fallen off with top coaching. Where are the elite coaches in the SEC now? Outside of Saban, who is going to hang it up any year now, there is a whole lotta question marks. The SEC West has Saban and then a vast land of mediocre or complete question marks, in addition to maybe the worst coach in all of 1A.
     
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  26. outhereincali

    outhereincali Well-Known Member
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    I agree. I'm not going to write him off the first few years. Speaking of a&m I made the mistake of writing off Jackie Sherrill and he ended up winning big albeit illegally. I don't know if Jimbo is worth 7 million but they offered it to him why say no?

    And I'm not on board with Chad Morris. All the good ones had been taken when the AR job became open he's a left over. All he did at SMU was beat Tom Herman's Houston team two years ago. I mean if you want to hire the SMU coach at a P5 school you want somebody who made a big splash while he was there and Morris didn't. And I'm sure oldtimers like me remember when AR was one of the best jobs in the country and now it's one of the worst.
     
  27. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    Just wondering who you think the top coaches are, not named Saban, Meyers, or Swinney? Let me guess: Gundy, Patterson and Herman.
     
  28. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Top coaches in no particular order.

    Saban
    Smart
    Peterson
    Meyer
    Swinney


    Not sure how Kirby Smart seems to be forgotten in this thread.

    Herman is top 10, likely moving up soon.
     
    28 Metcalf #2, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  29. weevilcatch

    weevilcatch Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, Fisher was a terrific hire. He is only 52 years old (Morris is 49) has won close to 80% of his games and has 2 National Championships (1 as OC, 1 as HC). And he can recruit.

    IMO, I don't think he'll be much more successful than Sumlin but you have to understand A&M for at least trying.
     
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  30. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah I still think it will turn out to look just like the Sumlin era, minus a heisman.

    Bad timing may hurt him. Texas is set to have a big year, and if we do, he's gonna get smashed by Herman in recruiting. I mean, Herman is killing it with bad teams. Win 9 or 10 and it's over.
     
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  31. weevilcatch

    weevilcatch Well-Known Member
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    I'd be much more worried as a Texas fan about the Jimbo hire if A&M was still in the Big 12. However, they have Saban, Malzahn, Orgeron, Morris, Mullen, Muschamp, and Smart to deal with. While I rate Jimbo higher than some of those names, obviously none of those guys are slouches in X's/O's and recruiting.

    That said, for my friend mm42...you mentioned Jimbo being able to turn Texas A&M into an elite program. The only way that will happen is if Jimbo truly buys into Texas A&M and all of their traditions. Sherril did, RC did but nobody has since those two left. And this isn't specific to Texas A&M...any coach at any program has to embrace the history of their program (Mack at Texas, Saban at Bama, Swinney at Clemson, etc.).

    Jimbo will have to buy into everything. He will have to fully embrace everything about Texas A&M from the corps, to the yell leaders, to the midnight yell, etc. Does he have that energy?

    I think a legitimate question to ask is...did Jimbo come to A&M because of the money, or did he come because he loves the school and is going to put the energy into building it into an elite program.
     
  32. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    I'll agree on Pederson, but Smart needs a few years. He is odds on favorite to be the next top guy, but he needs a couple years. I am 90% sure he will be on everyone's top 5 list in 2 years, maybe even #1.

    How is Herman top 10? I am not slamming Herman, but top 10 in the country???? He is probably 5th in his own 10 team conference. Patterson, Snyder, Gundy, Riley, Herman. Herman appears to be a good young coach, but he really hasn't won/done anything yet. I am interested to see how he and Riley Lincoln compare over time, they are both young and at schools with resources.
     
  33. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    What grade are you in? These top guys are mercenaries. He came to A&M because we have money to pay him, give him an unlimited budget for assistants, extra staff etc... And he thought he could win. He doesn't have to love the Corp or midnight yell, or anything else. Jimbo loves Jimbo and winning football games. Which is fine.
     
  34. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Simple. How many coaches could turn Houston into a true national player like Herman did? Pretty much the guys I listed, plus maybe a few more. That's it.

    Your mistake is judging on current records only. Is Smart going to suddenly become a better coach in two years, or will it simply be proven he is a great coach? Same for Herman. You can't rank coaches the way you do teams.

    Darrell Royal struggled early at Texas. Did he suddenly become better, or did it just take time for his genius to be proven.

    I could go on and on.
     
  35. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    Houston is not a true national player and wasn't when Herman was their. They are a really good mid major with a history of launching coaches to big P5 jobs. Art Briles, Kevin Sumlin etc.... Briles really got Houston going, that POS was such an awesome coach and program builder.
     
  36. Metcalf #2

    Metcalf #2 Well-Known Member
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    Top 5 ranking, BCS bowls, that's not a national player. Ok you're done.
     
  37. weevilcatch

    weevilcatch Well-Known Member
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    Well fella, I'm 39 years old. I have been a HC in multiple sports at the HS and college level. If you think putting in energy to consume yourself in every tiny aspect of what makes each college unique is not necessary then you have your answer as to why your school is always second fiddle.

    "Wanting" to win is not enough. Who in the hell doesn't "want" to win? lol. Like one of my college coaches told me once (he actually coached at A&M for a time)..."Everything counts to someone" Meaning, you may think it is minuscule and trivial, but understand it means something to someone.

    Direct quote from Jackie Sherrill

    "The infrastructure is only part of it. There are many things it takes to win a championship. If you have all of them aligned, then it’s easy to win a championship. If you don’t have them then you look around the country at championship-winning schools and realize they have the administration, the faculty, the student body, the former students, the coaches, and they have the media all going in the right direction."

    Loving yourself and money and just "wanting" to win will get Jimbo and the Aggie fan base a whole bunch more of 8-5.
     
  38. q1w2e3

    q1w2e3 Well-Known Member
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    Any list of coaches right now would consider Jimbo a top coach, but like I said I haven't been as impressed and it has nothing to do with A&M. He's a proven do less with more coach, and I wonder how much of his success is just being in the right place at the right time. There are probably several other coaches who would have done as good or better in his same shoes.

    As far as your guess on Gundy, Patterson, and Herman.....let's ask a somewhat neutral third party. I googled top coach list for this year and took the first one I saw, which is a CBS sports writer list. It's a list of average rank of all 65 Power Five coaches among a group CBS sports' college writers such as Tom Fornelli, Jerry Palm, Barton Simmons...etc....Definitely not anywhere near an exact science but averages out a consensus of numerous minds whose job is to cover college football. So..

    -as anyone with a brain should expect, both Gary Patterson (#6) and Gundy (#11) were considered top coaches

    -Herman at #28, which was the same ranking this same list had him for 2017. So after his inaugural year at Texas he held even.

    -Fisher was at #4, which is no surprise. He will land inside the top 10 on just about anyone's list b/c of 2013 and Jameis Winston

    -my thoughts on the SEC coaching landscape were reflected as I expected in this list:

    -five of the 14 SEC coaches fell in the bottom ten of all 65 coaches. That would be 36% of the conference's coaches are bottom of the barrel right now.

    -a step even further, seven of the SEC's 14 coaches were ranked 50th or worse. That means a full half of the SEC coaches fall in the bottom 20%

    -by comparison, only one Big 12 coach fell in the bottom ten or even ranked 50th or worse: David Beaty @ Kansas

    -On the front side of the rankings: The SEC had 5/14 coaches ranked in the top 15, or 36% of SEC coaches. The Big 12 had 4/10 coaches in the top 15, or 40%.

    Link: https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ge-football-coaches-entering-the-2018-season/
     
    38 q1w2e3, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  39. mm42

    mm42 Well-Known Member
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    I think you are 100% correct if we were discussing the high school level. Or even small college or a non-revenue sport at a major university. Only a few hundred people really give a shit. It is not the same as running a $150M+ a year business. He is being paid handsomely to form the culture of his program, to lead it not follow.

    These guys are professionals, they don't teach history or math half the day. They spend 80+ hours a week on football and football related crap.

    If Jimbo knows every yell, becomes a fish camp instructor, and loves aggieland with all his heart, he will still get fired if his team sucks. If he is a good Aggie and we suck for years, I'll help pack his shit. If he is a total prick and we win, I will love the guy.
     
  40. clob94

    clob94 Well-Known Member
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    What do you mean you're not interested in watching the Thursday night football game between Tulane and East Carolina?

    Signed,

    The Middle of July
     

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