This thread has been very helpful in illuminating why everyone hates the Irish. Like aggy, it's the fans.
Thanks for that!
Hook 'em
Thanks for that!
Hook 'em
ND line down to -3.5
- Thread starter Longhorn Crazy
- Start date
So explain to me what I've said or done that causes your hatred?
I've had long, in-depth conversations illustrating the good & bad of each team with probably 6-7 Longhorns without a single argument or problem for a month now.
Reread the thread and pay attention to your fellow fans. I'm very content to let you guys win on paper and I like our chances on the field in the fall.
Hook 'em
I am not sold on our D line. How can anyone be? We lost the best players on a line that wasn't very good. I think we got a huge talent upgrade, and I expect half of the starters to be true freshman by October. That said, the secondary and LBs are going to be a force. The d line will get enough support. I expect pressure to come from the second level and expect that teams are going to have a rough time finding open receivers. I'm not saying this is going to become a championship level D after one offseason, but I think they are going to turn some heads, and I think people are going to be on notice from the very first game.
I think you are talking about one fan in particular. The thing about ND fans is the ones you meet at ND games couldn't be nicer. It's the internet & bar fans that are jerks (which could be said for any major program fanbase).
Saying ND is over-confident is not really fair. Most ND fans simply think we will win, which is the fairest judgement. I see a lot of Texas fans predicting a Texas smashing of ND. That would be over-confidence in the present time but who cares, it's July?
All we have to discuss now is what's on paper since its Summer. I also like our chances very much, because of football reasons, not fandom or what's on paper. I have tried to lay out reasonable reasons for why I think so.
Your comments are exactly the type I was referencing when I said I'm getting my opinion of the Texas Dline from actual Longhorns on here. I think you summed up what all the others have been saying thus far.
My football opinion (which really means nothing) is that the Oline & Dline are the only two places you cannot make up for. A team can have good LBs & secondary, backfield & WRs, but it doesn't matter if the front gets dominated. The reverse is also true. A dominant front can cover up other weaknesses.
In this game for example, if it is like last year Malik will have a hard time because ND will block man on man & combo a weakness then release to the second level & get blocks downfield. That just pushes the front four into the LBs making their job tougher. So Malik would be fighting to get around his own Dline to make tackles. That would be the nightmare scenario for Texas. That is why (to me) the Dline is so important.
Its going to be an evolving situation at D line, but for the first game, I do expect Texas to struggle at that position. That said, I disagree that you can't support a line that is struggling. Blitzes and pre snap movement are a start. Dbs who are good enough to play man. I could go on but you get the point. Of course I'd rather have a great line, but you work with what you have. Texas did a decent job of this at times last year. OU was a good example.
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Fair point, perhaps you're right and I shouldn't paint with as broad a brush.
I hope your team is overconfident and complacent as that might help a favorable outcome, but it is not something I expect. I agree that it is premature to reasonably predict a dominating Texas performance, but many are pleased with how the team seems to be progressing since we last played, and hyperbole abounds. On the other hand, maybe coach Strong has finally solved the jigsaw puzzle of fielding the right staff and players to give us a taste of our old glory.
Vegas is right on the money favoring you guys, but even with the odds in your favor I think we'll give you a battle. Win or lose, this game will be a good test of our progress. Best of luck, Irish, the season draws near.
Paul Boyette, Poona Ford, Chris Nelson and Jake McMillon in the mix and it’s assumed Alex Norman will join them. Gerald Wilbon, Chris Daniels, Jordan Elliot, DCG and Marcel Southall are the candidates at DT.
5th year Sr Paul Boyette and Jr Poona Ford were major contributors in 2015.
Lots of bodies to work with and all of the new kids are over 300. I don't think it will be as ugly as last years 111th ranked rushing D. Although, it might not be much better.
So the meat of DT and DE position and their composite rank:
DT:
5th year Sr. Paul Boyette 4* Mack
5th year Sr Alex Norman 4* Mack
Jr. Poona Ford 4* Strong
Soph. Jake McMillon 3* Mack
Soph. Chris Nelson 3* Strong
Fresh. DCG 4* Strong
Fresh. Chris Daniels 4* Strong
Fresh. Jordan Elliot 4* Strong
Fresh. Marcel Southall 3* Strong
Fresh. Gerald Wilbon 3* Strong
DE:
5th year Sr. Bryce Cottrell 3* Mack
Sr. Quincy Vasser 3* Strong
Jr. Naashon Hughes 3* Mack
Soph. Charles Omenihu 3* Strong
Fresh. Fitzgerald 4* Strong
Fresh. Malcom Roach 3* Strong
DE/LB:
Soph. Breckyn Hager 3* Strong
Fresh. Eric Fowler 4* Strong/whether he enrolls or not is unknown
5th year Sr Paul Boyette and Jr Poona Ford were major contributors in 2015.
Lots of bodies to work with and all of the new kids are over 300. I don't think it will be as ugly as last years 111th ranked rushing D. Although, it might not be much better.
So the meat of DT and DE position and their composite rank:
DT:
5th year Sr. Paul Boyette 4* Mack
5th year Sr Alex Norman 4* Mack
Jr. Poona Ford 4* Strong
Soph. Jake McMillon 3* Mack
Soph. Chris Nelson 3* Strong
Fresh. DCG 4* Strong
Fresh. Chris Daniels 4* Strong
Fresh. Jordan Elliot 4* Strong
Fresh. Marcel Southall 3* Strong
Fresh. Gerald Wilbon 3* Strong
DE:
5th year Sr. Bryce Cottrell 3* Mack
Sr. Quincy Vasser 3* Strong
Jr. Naashon Hughes 3* Mack
Soph. Charles Omenihu 3* Strong
Fresh. Fitzgerald 4* Strong
Fresh. Malcom Roach 3* Strong
DE/LB:
Soph. Breckyn Hager 3* Strong
Fresh. Eric Fowler 4* Strong/whether he enrolls or not is unknown
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Where are you getting that the Big12 had the top statistical rushing offenses, thus damaging the rushing defenses statistically, relative to other conferences?
Top50 Rushing Offenses:
1 Georgia Southern (Sun Belt)
2 Baylor (Big12)
2 Navy (AAC)
4 Air Force (Mountain West)
5 Oregon (Pac12)
6 Appalachian State (Sun Belt)
7 LSU (SEC)
8 Georgia Tech (ACC)
9 New Mexico (Mountain West)
10 South Florida (AAC)
11 Ohio State (Big10)
12 Army (Independent)
13 Houston (AAC)
14 San Diego State (Mountain West)
15 Arkansas State (Sun Belt)
16 West Virginia (Big12)
17 Texas (Big12)
18 North Carolina (ACC)
19 Stanford (Pac12)
20 Tennessee (SEC)
21 Clemson (ACC)
22 Oklahoma (Big12)
23 Arizona (Big12)
24 TCU (Big12)
25 Nevada (Mountain West)
26 Indiana (Big10)
27 Notre Dame (Independent)
27 Toledo (MAC)
29 Western Michigan (MAC)
30 North Carolina State (ACC)
31 Maryland (ACC)
32 Alabama (SEC)
33 Colorado State (Mountain West)
34 Arkansas (SEC)
35 Auburn (SEC)
36 UNLV (Mountain West)
37 Duke (ACC)
38 Georgia (SEC)
39 Boise State (Mountain West)
40 Texas Tech (Big12)
41 Northern Illinois (MAC)
42 Northwestern (Big10)
43 Texas State (Sun Belt)
44 Pittsburgh (ACC)
45 Mississippi (SEC)
46 Utah (Pac12)
47 San Jose State (Mountain West)
48 Iowa State (Big12)
49 Iowa (Big10)
50 Ohio (MAC)
Top10 Rushing Offenses
AAC - 2
Mountain West - 2
Sun Belt - 2
ACC - 1
Big12 - 1
SEC - 1
Pac12 - 1
Top25 Rushing Offenses
Big12 - 6
AAC - 4
Mountain West - 4
ACC - 3
Sun Belt - 3
SEC - 2
Pac12 - 2
Big10 - 1
Independent - 1
Top50 Rushing Offenses
Mountain West - 8
Big12 - 8
ACC - 7
SEC - 7
AAC - 4
Sun Belt - 4
MAC - 4
Pac12 - 4
Big10 - 3
Independent - 2
I really don't see the statistical backing to say that the Big12 has better rushing offenses than other conferences, as a whole.
It's pretty deep with solid rushing teams, but so are several other conferences, and the Big12 doesn't have a pile of elite teams (actually fewer than other conferences)
So I would say the using statistics to compare what Warren, or any Texas RB, did in 2015...........is completely fair
(obviously)
So that brings us back to the earlier
Back to that literacy comment jackass, I said 5 of 10 in the top 25 for rushing offense.
Again, GFY...
Top25 Rushing Offenses
Big12 - 6 it's 5 if my literacy skills haven't failed me Power 5
AAC - 4
Mountain West - 4
ACC - 3 Power 5
Sun Belt - 3
SEC - 2 Power 5
Pac12 - 2 Power 5
Big10 - 1 Power 5
Independent - 1
Again, GFY...
Top25 Rushing Offenses
Big12 - 6 it's 5 if my literacy skills haven't failed me Power 5
AAC - 4
Mountain West - 4
ACC - 3 Power 5
Sun Belt - 3
SEC - 2 Power 5
Pac12 - 2 Power 5
Big10 - 1 Power 5
Independent - 1
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LOL
And yet your whole board is filled with posts of "If the team is showing improvement, not getting blown out against the good teams"
You can't have it both ways
I saw what you said, responded to it, and completely eviscerated the point your were trying to make about the statistical ranking of Big12 Defenses not being valid due to the fantastic nature of the offenses they face.
I showed that the Big12 is not on some other level of rushing offense, and that their rushing defense rankings therefore, can be fully considered
Thus Warren looking great against the WORST rushing defense in an P5 conference (2nd WORST in the entire nation), is greatly mitigated
And Warren look average against a mediocre rushing defenses (Baylor), is also valid, and calls into question what he'll look like when he's forced to play mediocre or even God forbid good run defenses
Get it now??
Literacy and logic.........2 tough things to completely lack
I feel for you little buddy, I really do
So the Big 12 had 5 (conference of 10) of the top 25 rushing offenses and the rest of the Power 5 conferences had 8 combined (based on your stats). Ok, if you say so chief. Ou was statistically the best defense in the Big 12, your stats are going to reflect your competition. Looks like the Big 12 had some pretty serious running attacks versus the other Power 5 conferences. I laugh at the inclusion of the American, etc...
Not to mention all the other points you avoided simply going after the rushing stats to make a point on Warren? I don't have to prop Warren up, the media is doing it for me. He was a true freshmen with 2 starts, I think he'll have a ton of success as will Foreman now that Gray is gone.
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I like that the Top25 is the only thing that matters to you, when I show that in the Top10 and the Top50 as well.........the Big12 isn't a lone #1 in either
Also, non-P5 teams count as well, and show up with the exact same value in pushing the Texas Tech and Baylor defenses to #127 and #54 respectively
So no
The Big12 does not have rushing offenses that are significantly better (statistically) than the rushing offenses of many/most other conferences
And the rushing defense numbers are thus very comparable
So evaluating what Warren did against the WORST run defense in the P5 needs to be taken with a massive, massive grain of salt
And pointing out what he did (and didn't do) against a very mediocre run defense is also fair
Stats just aren't your cup of tea, are they little buddy?
Decker, your condescending, antagonistic tone isn't going to continue on here. Remember, you're a guest here and you should act accordingly. If you want to continue to have posting privileges, I would recommend that you change your tone.
I disagree, the little fellas don't have a seat at the table and those conference' are even more watered down as you rank them in order of significance. The 5 best conferences which have what, 64 of the most prominent teams in college football???... play the big boys on a regular basis, in conference and out. Hell, look at the watered down schedules some of the Independents play in some years.
Like your stats show, 5 of the top 25 rushing offenses were from the Big 12 (half of the league) and 8 or 80% of the big 12 was in the top 50, there're how many Power 5 programs? Last year the Big 12 was one of the best all around offense producing conferences if not the best and it's not normal for them to have 5 top 25 rushing programs in a given year. The defenses weren't fantastic by any means, but the spread attacks in the Big 12 always produce big numbers and it seems as though those numbers continue to climb. Hell, they had The 3 top offenses in the country including all your also ran squads.
I'm not sure why your picking on Warren he's not even the starter, Foreman is and he averaged 7.2 per carry with 95 attempts for 681 yards as the reserve to Gray with zero starts, he would have started the last 2 games but he was out.
I was talking about Texas' defense as well as the Big 12 defense' as a whole not having the best ranks based on their competition having superior offense, but whatever floats your boat, by all means. At least in the post you decided to go off on, that is.
GFY
Again...This had nothing to do with Warren.
I was talking about defense, asshole.
Sorry MM, it is what it is. I'll ignore the fella.
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Not a problem. I've spent probably the last 20 years trying to defend the ND program/fanbase. I grew up here so ND was my local team I watched long before the NBC contract. I had no clue everybody else hated them until I joined the military & everywhere I went everybody made sure to let me know they hated ND. Lol
I get it to a point because probably 75% of ND fans are nowhere near Indiana or have anything to do with ND. Those are the ones who cause problems. I've gone to road games & had to stop fights between ND fans with other ND fans (not real fans, just guys who bought a TShirt & Hat).
As for the program, it doesn't make sense to me because it is a clean program, holds very strict standards for players academically & ethically, & on the field doesn't shy away from top programs.
And I'm ND's toughest critic when they deserve it.
Don't worry, when ND stinks I will be the first to be all over them. If Texas beats ND because they are better, I have no problem with that. If ND loses because they are stupid I will call them out on it fast.
So our resident ND fans that are all jacked about the Irish, watched their squad play:
3 top 50 offenses, 1 of which was in the top 25.
8 top 50 defenses, 5 from the ACC, 2 American and 1 Pac 12. 3 of which made the top 25. Clemson, BC and Temple, once again.. I can see why some like to bring up the lessors.
5 top 50 rushing offenses, 5 in the top 25, 4 Power 5 including Texas the others were GT, Clemson, Navy, Stanford... I can see why some like to talk Texas rushing up as it certainly got better after week 2 changes.
3 top 50 passing offenses, 1 of which made the top 25 (Clemson). The other 2, UMASS (FBS Indy) and USC.
By far the best three teams they played all season long were Clemson, Stanford and the 13th data point bowl loss.
That Notre Dame hype machine has never slowed, they pump it out as fast as they can make it.
While I'm still in the boat that they beat Texas because I know Texas is still developing a young squad with very few upper class men and looking at a ceiling of 7-8 wins more likely than not. It's a pure joy to see their optimism with Kelly entering his 7th year. I'll probably feel a little more like this next summer with Charlie entering his 4th and his 3rd full recruiting class under his belt.
Notre Dame wins 34-27, I hate making prognostications.
3 top 50 offenses, 1 of which was in the top 25.
8 top 50 defenses, 5 from the ACC, 2 American and 1 Pac 12. 3 of which made the top 25. Clemson, BC and Temple, once again.. I can see why some like to bring up the lessors.
5 top 50 rushing offenses, 5 in the top 25, 4 Power 5 including Texas the others were GT, Clemson, Navy, Stanford... I can see why some like to talk Texas rushing up as it certainly got better after week 2 changes.
3 top 50 passing offenses, 1 of which made the top 25 (Clemson). The other 2, UMASS (FBS Indy) and USC.
By far the best three teams they played all season long were Clemson, Stanford and the 13th data point bowl loss.
That Notre Dame hype machine has never slowed, they pump it out as fast as they can make it.
While I'm still in the boat that they beat Texas because I know Texas is still developing a young squad with very few upper class men and looking at a ceiling of 7-8 wins more likely than not. It's a pure joy to see their optimism with Kelly entering his 7th year. I'll probably feel a little more like this next summer with Charlie entering his 4th and his 3rd full recruiting class under his belt.
Notre Dame wins 34-27, I hate making prognostications.
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To your point of pre snap reads, blitzes, & coverage, the reason the Dline is key is that an experienced team will adjust for blitzes & pick them apart if they know that is the D's only option. For coverage, it doesn't matter if you have four Deon Sanders if they have to cover for 6-7 seconds. Not saying those things will happen, but just my opinion on why the Dline hinders the back 7.
Yea sure but these are college level offenses with inexperienced players on their side as well. I'm not expecting perfect execution on the offensive side of the ball, particularly not on the first game. Its not ideal, but it can and does work.
I've never cared about offensive rankings, I just care about wins & losses. Alabama will never come close to Baylor, Okie St, TCU, OU when looking at stats but who do you have winning the game?
Last year, for example, both Navy & Temple were undefeated & ranked when ND played them. They were both good teams. And playing triple option offenses like GT & Navy isn't very fun to defend. Not to mention most teams circle ND on their calendar like Clemson, Temple, Stanford all did by moving it to national night game & Pitt bringing in their 50 greatest players to be honored.
So ND scheduled Temple to be a cupcake & they were 8-0 & ranked top 15. Navy was 5-0 & top 20. Then GT was 2-0 ranked top 15 but fell apart after ND beat them up. And Texas was supposed to be the shiny gem on the schedule. USC played top 5 ball one week & crap the next. Schedules are tricky.
Either way, I can't compare ND's D this year to last year. It's almost completely different, but in a good or bad way I don't know yet?
I think we can't replace Jaylon, but overall, 11-17 guys who will play, we are better. Not having 5-6 guys injured helps. But mostly because the Dline is deep, the secondary is experienced & I think the LBs as a unit will be solid. So last year it felt like we were playing 8 versus 11, this year will be 11v11. Don't need them to be great, just don't give up 30. I think the offense will score 34 a game, so they just need to be above average.
And I like Brian Kelly lot. He has picked up recruiting again after previous three coaches destroyed it. He had ND back to a 10 win program who challenges every couple years & he doesn't mess with violations. He kicked the starting QB from the national title game off the team (and out of school) for cheating on homework. He kicked 4 starters (one just got drafted) off the team (& out of school) for cheating on a test together. None of the above were proven, but players admitted to him so he kicked them out. And some players who are academically eligible by NCAA standards have been kicked out for not meeting ND standards. So the opposite of the SEC.
I'm hoping (as a ND fan) that the passing offense isn't a factor because ND just sticks to the run. I'm not a fan of throwing 40 times a game.
Bama was a poor choice, they are exactly where I would like my team to be OVERALL! But, you already new that!
More complete than a Baylor, OU, Okie State or TCU. Texas will need a prolofic offense unlike Bama due to these cats being on the schedule, but Bama is where I like numbers, with a little better pass O. Although, had BU put together a top 35 defense, they would have been someone to reckon with.
2015 Bama, Total offense 45th, Total D 3rd, Rushing O 32nd (control the game) and Passing O 62nd. The problem with the teams you chose to throw in the mix with Bama is TCU can be that type of team with better D unlike 2015, they were down on D last year, OU knows how to win until it matters, BU and Okie State will always be offense junkies!
Clemson is another squad that put together great numbers: Total O 11th, Total D 10th, Rushing O 21st and Passing O 23...It got them to the title game!
So, no. I don't want stats like BU or Okie State.
Ohio State was 41st in Total O, 9th in Total D, 11th in rushing offense and 100th in passing O.
That's getting it done against REAL competition, although the ACC and B1G are a bit top heavy, ya know. There is definitely a bit more parity in some conferences and it changes from year to year.
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You could say that about almost every school in the country. The Texas offense is going to be a lot better probably top 50 better. Our rush offense should be top 15 good.
No, you read on here we are concerned about our DTs, not our dline. Our DEs are pretty talented bunch. If we are running a 4-2-5 defense, we are thin. If we run a 3-3-5 defense we are probably at our strength where we emphasize our DE/LBs and minimize our DTs.
I'm much less concerned about our pass defense than our run defense, but I have faith we can score some points this year and put teams in catch up mode where we force them to pass and that is the strength of our defense.
I am really hoping we put him in the backfield a few times as a change of pace guy. He is built to play any number of positions.
How can you not see that in a league of 10 teams 5 of which are in the top 25 rush offenses in the country; HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW GOOD THIS CONFERENCE IS AT RUNNING THE BALL?????
And yet this whole thread is filled with you also telling us a loss is a loss.
This is great....I like this type discussion. I have said and I will say again....I expect that our D line will be at least as good as last year. True....we lost the big guy, and have nothing like him this year. Problem was.....we didnt have him last year either. He was a monster against OU, but for the rest of the schedule he was hurt and not that effective. I just dont expect us to consistantly get blown off the line of scrimmage like we were last year. Rice had a 260 lb OG last yer and they ran all over us. I dont see that happening again. We will rotate in young guys that will miss assignments and sometimes be out of position, but I dont think they will be that easy to move around.
If your strength is defense & running game it really doesn't matter how many yards you throw for, but when & how it happens. If you throw for just 200 ypg but do it in conjunction with your power running game that is really good & impossible for a defense to stop.
That's what happened to OU last year. They built their team to play in the high pace 50-45 games of the Big12. They got punched in the mouth by a physical Texas & ran over by a balanced Clemson.
I guess as your opponent week 1 I look at it the following way:
I would rather play a young Dline with question marks at DT than play a dominant Dline right off the start. Especially when I feel a strength of mine is OLine.
So I'm not saying Texas' Dline is bad, just saying I rather play their Dline week than a team who is stacked at Dline.
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