OT{ Its Colder than a Eskimo Party
- Thread starter StrangerHorn
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The last person on this board that I need to worry about is @GuaranteedFresh! -- but I haven't heard from him since this crap started.
Yo Fresh-- you alright man? Are your ties staying warm?
Yo Fresh-- you alright man? Are your ties staying warm?
Bette Midler claims Texas outages is God punishing Senators Ted Cruz, John Cornyn
Bette Midler tweeted that the current situation in Texas is some kind of divine retribution against Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn.
Bette Midler is fvcking cvnt trash. I've never raised a hand to a woman in my life. Bette is making me reconsider my upbringing.
I've had no power or internet since Monday evening. Just got it back about 30 minutes ago. No telling how long it might last though. This sucks! It's inexcusable what has happened with ERCOT throughout the state. Some heads should roll!
Well to me it reads like insensitivity towards those without generators. If not than I stand corrected.
And there are far more important issues. I agonize about what's happening in the state where I was born and raised. Where I lived for 45 of the 48 years of my life (3 years in the army). I still love TX food, music, and other things that make TX culture so great. So spare me the I live in CA I must be liberal/ socialist bs.
I have family there. 2 brothers and 3 kids. Numerous cousins and an aunt or uncle that are still around. I'm relieved that right now they are fine. But my daughter in laws family has not been as fortunate. More people will die before this is over and I'm upset about it. They don't deserve this and neither do your loved ones and friends.
I want to get to the bottom of this and I will keep diggingng no matter how long it takes. The ERCOT people are horrible human beings, but there are other energy companies, and at least 7 elected officials that are culpable. And don't forget the aggie dumbass aka Rick Perry who was secondary of energy, a department he couldn't even name in a presidential debate a department he would one day lead. I can't prove it but there is dark money involved in this and Rick Perry is to stupid to hide his tracks.
More will be revealed.
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Let me lay it out for you.
Texas is the oil capital of the world. We wanted to have some green stuff to be able to be diverse.
Obama offered all kids of tax breaks to make wind and solar profitable even though without subsidies it isn't.
So we had a huge pot of money to spend and we went bat sh!t building wind farms. We built more than any other state. WAY more.
But to get the full meal deal winterized windmills, we'd have had to spend gobs more money. So we opted for the mid range instead of the Siberian package.
After we'd spent gobs of money out windmilling everybody else, we had a smaller pot of money left. Well, that money was also needed to winterize our gas, coal and nuclear plants. But we didn't have enough yet to winterize them all. So, because it rarely gets really cold in Texas for long periods of time- we kicked the can down the road a few years until we DID have the money to winterize our Other plants-- on the off chance that wind mills sh!t the bed in a bad storm.
And wouldn't you know it-- a bad storm came before we could get all that done.
The 40 gigawatts of power the windmills crank out was reduced to 4 GW and the other plants could have caught up and bridged the gap-- if they'd been winterized.
So, had we not have gone bat sh!t crazy building windmills, or say, built 30% less, we'd have had the money to winterize our Other power plants for a once in a generation cold spell.
But we didn't.
No you can not blame this on windmills. You can blame this on deregulation and putting profit above peoples lives.
Yeah man, the family is all good. I've got a backup generator and 2 suitcase inverters to keep the electricity up and going. Pipes are g2g since they are all wrapped with heat strips.
My wife has been a total badass seeing how I skipped town to NC last friday. My tennants finally moved out and the last time I paid a contractor for repairs I got taken for $6k so I've been prepping to sell.
Last bit of flooring goes in tomorrow and I'll take care of a few errands before heading back friday. Hopefully my truck doesn't shell out the other wheel bearing hub on the return trip.......that was a fun experience.
Hang in there fellas, you'll be moaning about the sweltering heat before you know it.
A lot of the anti-oil outlets are saying wellheads froze up and caused the power shortage. Maybe there's something I'm missing because those damn things are always hotter than hell, they can't freeze. Something else might have though, like the chem-injector or something else downstream. Smells fishy.
Best week of my life, the entire Madison football team got together for a snow bowl. That was a hell of a team we had, 17 guys signed scholarships. But that was some epic fun. The snow drifts were like 3 feet deep.
Bette Midler claims Texas outages is God punishing Senators Ted Cruz, John Cornyn
Bette Midler tweeted that the current situation in Texas is some kind of divine retribution against Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn.www.google.com
Bette Midler is fvcking cvnt trash. I've never raised a hand to a woman in my life. Bette is making me reconsider my upbringing.
Lol, Bette Midler is a no body, I have no idea what the last thing she did was, maybe that Disney movie about the witch sisters. That was like early 90's. Her words are about as important as Aunt Ester from Sanford and Son.
Let me get this straight, you are 48 years old, but you say in 1985 you were driving? How the hell did you pull that off? I am 52, I was in 10th grade in 1985 at Madison high school when that Big snow storm hit. I was still 16 so you would be 12.
I smell some Bull crap.
Oh, and if you are going to call someone "to stupid" you might want to spell the word "too" correctly.
No one saw this coming because it has never happened here before. In hind site, instead of spending the time trying to go green they should have been updating the power plants we had or building new ones, but the constant whining about global warming from the left was blinding. At least everyone can see now that the world has to have fossil fuels to operate and all this net zero carbon stuff is a fairy tale. Electric cars are pretty much useless as well in an event like this. That’s my political take.
My common sense take is whoever was in charge of risk management of our power grid has some explaining to do because it shouldn’t be a political decision on whether or not a power plant needed to be winterized. They really missed the mark.
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I'm not blaming it on windmills. I'm blaming it on government tax credits that were given if windmills were built.
The Obama admin wanted to go as green as they could so they literally made it so that if electricity were FREE-- windmills would still be profitable. The tax credits were huge. So we took our federal money and spent like crazy on windmills. But as I said, we didn't pay for the Siberian cold windmills, we paid for the warm weather windmills. Look it up Cali.
Then after spending all that money going big on windmills (Texas, go big or go home) we didn't have enough money left to winterize our OTHER plants. Most natural gas plants are water cooled. Well, water freezes. See where I'm going with this?
We went TOO hard on windmills and hedged our bets because we didn't NEED to build windmills that would operate in super cold temps-- because this is Texas. When does it every get SUPER cold for long stretches?
Had we have built 25-30% fewer windmills, we still would lead the nation in wind power, just by not as much--- AND we'd have had enough money to winterize the other gas, coal and nuke plants-- thus preventing this.
Does it make sense now Cali? Nobody is saying "wind power bad"-- I'm just saying "Texas went overboard on windmills because Obama made tax credits so high" to build them.
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Still got the house in Fayetteville eh? My buddy down the street-- the AF JSOC guy I've been trying to hook you up with over beers, still has his too.
As far as oil well heads freezing, whomever told you that is the dumbest mother fvcker on legs. Well heads operate on the north slope in Alaska in the dead of winter. The pump stations that push natural gas through the line, yes, a few of those pumps seized. But other than that- no-- no oil wells froze.
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@outhereincali
Here are a few links for you to see the graphs produced by ERCOT and other showing how the load dropped off of one source of energy and was supplemented by another.
www.ercot.com
Just browse through and you'll find them. I'd post the links directly but they are downloaded via PDF so I can't. You have to find them. I've got another link showing the charts--
texags.com
Above you can see how natural gas had to surge to help with declining wind.
We did the right thing building wind farms-- we just did it the wrong way. Wind isn't profitable-- unless you're plugged right into it. Wind energy doesn't transfer well through power lines. Too much is lost over distance. But being right next to a wind farm is kick ass-- so long as the wind blows. Solar is great- so long as the sun shines. Having both is really good so long as you're right next to the wind and solar farm, and the sun is shining and the wind is blowing--- unless it gets dark and REALLY cold-- then you're fvcked. You become reliant on VERY expensive batteries that don't last very long.
The problem with batteries is they cost way too much and don't last long. They are made with rare earth elements and those are hard to come by.
Here are a few links for you to see the graphs produced by ERCOT and other showing how the load dropped off of one source of energy and was supplemented by another.
Generation
View data on DC ties, generation outages, resource plan details and scheduled generation, and find forms to submit generation and outage data/requests.
Just browse through and you'll find them. I'd post the links directly but they are downloaded via PDF so I can't. You have to find them. I've got another link showing the charts--
Chart of ERCOT power sources - where from? | TexAgs
Chart of ERCOT power sources - where from? discussion on the TexAgs Politics forum.
Above you can see how natural gas had to surge to help with declining wind.
We did the right thing building wind farms-- we just did it the wrong way. Wind isn't profitable-- unless you're plugged right into it. Wind energy doesn't transfer well through power lines. Too much is lost over distance. But being right next to a wind farm is kick ass-- so long as the wind blows. Solar is great- so long as the sun shines. Having both is really good so long as you're right next to the wind and solar farm, and the sun is shining and the wind is blowing--- unless it gets dark and REALLY cold-- then you're fvcked. You become reliant on VERY expensive batteries that don't last very long.
The problem with batteries is they cost way too much and don't last long. They are made with rare earth elements and those are hard to come by.
So Leadership did not make the right choices as it relates to where and how much monies were spent as well as identifying the importance of rolling out infrastructure to protect the State's power grid? I do not consider myself green, and do not believe what just happen was political, but I do do know our State's failure in preparedness had nothing to do with wind turbines.
This is about the unbelievable power of ERCOT, which currently answers to no one, and our State's leadership (both sides of the aisle) having a huge ego - driven blindspot.
I don't disagree with the second part of this. But here's the deal--
From 2008-16, there were MASSIVE tax incentives to "go green". So massive that even if the price of electricity were "free" to the consumer, the windmill operator would still pull a profit. That's how huge the tax incentives were.
Well, Texas leadership ain't stupid-- the can smell money just like anyone. So all these private companies start building windmills in West and South Texas. They are getting huge tax incentives from the federal government and getting assistance from the state government. Big money is flowing here-- billions and billions.
So we are building windmills at a record clip to grab as much of these federal dollars as we can, and the state is loving it because it's diversifying our energy grid at literally no cost to the state. And yet the state is getting to benefit from it, because they are selling the power. Did the state stop and say "hey fellas, maybe you should winterize these windmills like they do in Norway and Finland and Iceland"---? No. No they didn't.
Why?
Because this isn't Finland or Norway or Iceland. This is Texas. It doesn't get that cold here.
And then one day it does get cold--- and all these windmills that were built with "good intentions" are shown to be lacking in the cold weather department.
Look-- do you buy snow tires when you go to the tire shop? Or do you buy highway tires?
You buy highway tires.
And then one day it snows and your highway tires slip and slide all over the road and you crash into a ditch. You bought really expensive highway tires. Good quality tires. Really good tires-- they just weren't made to drive on snow. Same thing applies to the windmills.
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Pelosi just spent millions going long on Tesla. This is going to be interesting.
Nuclear for a baseline is the way to go. Yes, it's expensive-- France is nuclear driven and their cost per KWh is about 25 cents. I think we pay 8 cents here in comal county.
Some good points. I don't know if you have seen World War Z, but I like the tenth man rule as it relates to being prepared among other things.
And while Texas does not get this cold for this long, we do get really hot for months at a time. This can be just as stressful on the grid. Bottom line, when a state has the mindset (ego) to go it alone for a power grid probably should put more time and monies into the infrastructure (e.g. winterizing machinery, etc.).
Jeesh 45 out of the 1rst 48 years before I moved to California in 2003 Ive stated numerous times my age and when I moved here.
That's the same fixed contract rate that I pay with Direct Energy in Harris county. My contract with them was set to expire in March. I just got off of the phone with them. I was shocked that they offered my a lower rate at 5.9 cents per KWH. I jumped all over it for a 36 month fixed rate contract!
So the short of this discussion is that Texas built a shit ton of windmills and gambled we didn't need to prepare for really bad winter weather and we lost that bet. Considering this is the worst storm we had in Texas since 1985 I'd say it was a bet worth taking.
The stupid thing isn't the fact we didn't get the winterized version of the windmill, the real stupid thing is that we didn't have a backup to take up the slack when the system went down.
Redundency is the real answer not that we spent fake government money on windmills we should have the redundency to back up these things if there is any natural disaster.
What if it wasn't a winter storm, what if it was some other disaster that took out the windmills, we would still be in the same boat only more screwed. We need backup plants that can withstand several natural disasters and still keep the lights on. We might not like fossil fuel but they still work and keeping them as a backup is still a smart thing to do even if it is an insurance policy.
Ask anyone who makes a living in the IT industry, the more mission critical a system is the more redundency it requires. The rule is, one is none, two is one. The electrical grid should have 3 or 4. This is proof that we aren't ready to colonize Mars, we would die there the first year.
The stupid thing isn't the fact we didn't get the winterized version of the windmill, the real stupid thing is that we didn't have a backup to take up the slack when the system went down.
Redundency is the real answer not that we spent fake government money on windmills we should have the redundency to back up these things if there is any natural disaster.
What if it wasn't a winter storm, what if it was some other disaster that took out the windmills, we would still be in the same boat only more screwed. We need backup plants that can withstand several natural disasters and still keep the lights on. We might not like fossil fuel but they still work and keeping them as a backup is still a smart thing to do even if it is an insurance policy.
Ask anyone who makes a living in the IT industry, the more mission critical a system is the more redundency it requires. The rule is, one is none, two is one. The electrical grid should have 3 or 4. This is proof that we aren't ready to colonize Mars, we would die there the first year.
Look at it like this.
Roughly 28 billion was spent building windmills here in Texas. There are roughly 10,700-ish wind "turbines" here. We make so much energy that if you combined the 2nd, 3rd and 4th states in wind power (Iowa, Cali, Oklahoma) they would ALMOST equal our power output.
So let's say we took the approach that for 2.65 million per windmill, we could edge out Iowa for the top spot in production. That would have left us with 21 billion or so dollars.
Nuclear plants cost around 7 billion to build. We could have built 3 more nuke plants (bringing our total to 5) and STILL lead the nation in wind power.
Only problem was, the gub'ment under Obama wasn't giving free money to states to build nuclear plants. Only green stuff.
So I ask you-- did Texas do a poor job of building stuff with government money, or did the government do a poor job of allocating where and what the money should be spent on?
Roughly 28 billion was spent building windmills here in Texas. There are roughly 10,700-ish wind "turbines" here. We make so much energy that if you combined the 2nd, 3rd and 4th states in wind power (Iowa, Cali, Oklahoma) they would ALMOST equal our power output.
So let's say we took the approach that for 2.65 million per windmill, we could edge out Iowa for the top spot in production. That would have left us with 21 billion or so dollars.
Nuclear plants cost around 7 billion to build. We could have built 3 more nuke plants (bringing our total to 5) and STILL lead the nation in wind power.
Only problem was, the gub'ment under Obama wasn't giving free money to states to build nuclear plants. Only green stuff.
So I ask you-- did Texas do a poor job of building stuff with government money, or did the government do a poor job of allocating where and what the money should be spent on?
I didn't realize
Just when you think he couldn't make a worse decision...Senator Cruz essentially blames his 10 and 12 year old daughters for the trip, after all he wants to be a "good dad."
I guess I do not see them mutually exclusive. My initial reaction is build less windmills, turbines, or whatever they are called and simply prepare them for extreme conditions (hot or cold).
I am not sure how this eliminates the responsibility of State leadership and ERCOT from being better prepared.
Again Texas has extreme weather already, this time the extreme weather wascold. Further this front was identified at least 10 days in advance. Plenty of time for supplemental efforts to be out in place for the energy king of the U.S.
When Texas decided to go on their own for a power grid, the state sure as hell better prepare for these scenarios. There is plenty of money in Texas and plenty of smart people. I think ERCOT to some level has made a nice rebound. I think the issue is not being better prepared and some leadership presenting this failure due to a green movement (i.e. windmills). I mean don't piss on our heads and tell us it's raining...or in this case snowing.
Interesting discussion but I have a different question. Who decides when there is limited power where will that power be allocated and to whom? ERCOT said this was supposed to be rolling blackouts where folks had electricity for awhile then it might shift to neighbors across the street who had been dark before.
We were without power in Arlington for 1.5 days before it came back but were fortunate enough to bunk in with our daughter's crew for a night. Their power went off for about 6 hours, came back on and has stayed on since. While grateful for the refuge, it just seems strange that some parts of the grid were barely affected. I have also heard that Dallas had power and lights on its tall buildings. Is this just sheer luck or were there other decisions made behind the scenes?
We are now hunkered down at home waiting for it to warm up again.
We were without power in Arlington for 1.5 days before it came back but were fortunate enough to bunk in with our daughter's crew for a night. Their power went off for about 6 hours, came back on and has stayed on since. While grateful for the refuge, it just seems strange that some parts of the grid were barely affected. I have also heard that Dallas had power and lights on its tall buildings. Is this just sheer luck or were there other decisions made behind the scenes?
We are now hunkered down at home waiting for it to warm up again.
You are correct, that was what was supposed to happen. However, I would submit, due to a lack of leadership, preparation, and infrastructure the system failed millions of Texans. I will be interested mostly in the revelations behind ERCOT and who they answer to, and how their power has grown unchecked over the years.
ERCOT has some 'splaining to do it seems. One third of the board don't even live in TX? Downtown Austin garages and buildings lit up while many of us went without power?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...zens-shiver-in-the-rolling-blackouts-n1426119
And now....
Rep. Jeff Leach, R-Plano, told WFAA that he was “totally shocked” to learn a third of the ERCOT Board of Directors lived outside Texas.
“People who are making literally life and death decisions on behalf of our families and our communities don’t even live in the state of Texas,” Leach said. ”… I’m frustrated and cannot believe that the board chair of our leading energy decision maker doesn’t even live in Texas, but lives in Michigan. It just cannot be that way here in the Lone Star State.”
Leach said he has begun drafting legislation to prohibit non-Texans from serving on the ERCOT Board. Now, board members are appointed by a nominating committee made up of current members.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...zens-shiver-in-the-rolling-blackouts-n1426119
And now....
Rep. Jeff Leach, R-Plano, told WFAA that he was “totally shocked” to learn a third of the ERCOT Board of Directors lived outside Texas.
“People who are making literally life and death decisions on behalf of our families and our communities don’t even live in the state of Texas,” Leach said. ”… I’m frustrated and cannot believe that the board chair of our leading energy decision maker doesn’t even live in Texas, but lives in Michigan. It just cannot be that way here in the Lone Star State.”
Leach said he has begun drafting legislation to prohibit non-Texans from serving on the ERCOT Board. Now, board members are appointed by a nominating committee made up of current members.
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