OT{ Its Colder than a Eskimo Party

[soonersoldier]

I don't disagree with the second part of this. But here's the deal--

From 2008-16, there were MASSIVE tax incentives to "go green". So massive that even if the price of electricity were "free" to the consumer, the windmill operator would still pull a profit. That's how huge the tax incentives were.

Well, Texas leadership ain't stupid-- the can smell money just like anyone. So all these private companies start building windmills in West and South Texas. They are getting huge tax incentives from the federal government and getting assistance from the state government. Big money is flowing here-- billions and billions.

So we are building windmills at a record clip to grab as much of these federal dollars as we can, and the state is loving it because it's diversifying our energy grid at literally no cost to the state. And yet the state is getting to benefit from it, because they are selling the power. Did the state stop and say "hey fellas, maybe you should winterize these windmills like they do in Norway and Finland and Iceland"---? No. No they didn't.
Why?
Because this isn't Finland or Norway or Iceland. This is Texas. It doesn't get that cold here.

And then one day it does get cold--- and all these windmills that were built with "good intentions" are shown to be lacking in the cold weather department.

Look-- do you buy snow tires when you go to the tire shop? Or do you buy highway tires?

You buy highway tires.

And then one day it snows and your highway tires slip and slide all over the road and you crash into a ditch. You bought really expensive highway tires. Good quality tires. Really good tires-- they just weren't made to drive on snow. Same thing applies to the windmills.

Some good points. I don't know if you have seen World War Z, but I like the tenth man rule as it relates to being prepared among other things.

And while Texas does not get this cold for this long, we do get really hot for months at a time. This can be just as stressful on the grid. Bottom line, when a state has the mindset (ego) to go it alone for a power grid probably should put more time and monies into the infrastructure (e.g. winterizing machinery, etc.).

 

[Oldmanastro]

And Ted Cruz goes to Cancun?

 

[soonersoldier]

And Ted Cruz goes to Cancun?

Now those are some BAD optics...

 

[Belldozer1]

I may end up with as much snow today as I did the other day which was about 4".

 

[outhereincali]

Let me get this straight, you are 48 years old, but you say in 1985 you were driving? How the hell did you pull that off? I am 52, I was in 10th grade in 1985 at Madison high school when that Big snow storm hit. I was still 16 so you would be 12.

I smell some Bull crap.

Oh, and if you are going to call someone "to stupid" you might want to spell the word "too" correctly.

Jeesh 45 out of the 1rst 48 years before I moved to California in 2003 Ive stated numerous times my age and when I moved here.

 

[TX1972]

Pelosi just spent millions going long on Tesla. This is going to be interesting.

Nuclear for a baseline is the way to go. Yes, it's expensive-- France is nuclear driven and their cost per KWh is about 25 cents. I think we pay 8 cents here in comal county.

7 cents/kwh in Guadalupe county.

 

[LonghornMM]

7 cents/kwh in Guadalupe county.

That's the same fixed contract rate that I pay with Direct Energy in Harris county. My contract with them was set to expire in March. I just got off of the phone with them. I was shocked that they offered my a lower rate at 5.9 cents per KWH. I jumped all over it for a 36 month fixed rate contract!

 

[Son of Wasatch]

So the short of this discussion is that Texas built a shit ton of windmills and gambled we didn't need to prepare for really bad winter weather and we lost that bet. Considering this is the worst storm we had in Texas since 1985 I'd say it was a bet worth taking.

The stupid thing isn't the fact we didn't get the winterized version of the windmill, the real stupid thing is that we didn't have a backup to take up the slack when the system went down.

Redundency is the real answer not that we spent fake government money on windmills we should have the redundency to back up these things if there is any natural disaster.

What if it wasn't a winter storm, what if it was some other disaster that took out the windmills, we would still be in the same boat only more screwed. We need backup plants that can withstand several natural disasters and still keep the lights on. We might not like fossil fuel but they still work and keeping them as a backup is still a smart thing to do even if it is an insurance policy.

Ask anyone who makes a living in the IT industry, the more mission critical a system is the more redundency it requires. The rule is, one is none, two is one. The electrical grid should have 3 or 4. This is proof that we aren't ready to colonize Mars, we would die there the first year.

 

[clob94]

Look at it like this.

Roughly 28 billion was spent building windmills here in Texas. There are roughly 10,700-ish wind "turbines" here. We make so much energy that if you combined the 2nd, 3rd and 4th states in wind power (Iowa, Cali, Oklahoma) they would ALMOST equal our power output.

So let's say we took the approach that for 2.65 million per windmill, we could edge out Iowa for the top spot in production. That would have left us with 21 billion or so dollars.

Nuclear plants cost around 7 billion to build. We could have built 3 more nuke plants (bringing our total to 5) and STILL lead the nation in wind power.

Only problem was, the gub'ment under Obama wasn't giving free money to states to build nuclear plants. Only green stuff.

So I ask you-- did Texas do a poor job of building stuff with government money, or did the government do a poor job of allocating where and what the money should be spent on?

 

[soonersoldier]

Look at it like this.

Roughly 28 billion was spent building windmills here in Texas. There are roughly 10,700-ish wind "turbines" here. We make so much energy that if you combined the 2nd, 3rd and 4th states in wind power (Iowa, Cali, Oklahoma) they would ALMOST equal our power output.

So let's say we took the approach that for 2.65 million per windmill, we could edge out Iowa for the top spot in production. That would have left us with 21 billion or so dollars.

Nuclear plants cost around 7 billion to build. We could have built 3 more nuke plants (bringing our total to 5) and STILL lead the nation in wind power.

Only problem was, the gub'ment under Obama wasn't giving free money to states to build nuclear plants. Only green stuff.

So I ask you-- did Texas do a poor job of building stuff with government money, or did the government do a poor job of allocating where and what the money should be spent on?

I didn't realize

And Ted Cruz goes to Cancun?

Just when you think he couldn't make a worse decision...Senator Cruz essentially blames his 10 and 12 year old daughters for the trip, after all he wants to be a "good dad."

 

[soonersoldier]

Look at it like this.

Roughly 28 billion was spent building windmills here in Texas. There are roughly 10,700-ish wind "turbines" here. We make so much energy that if you combined the 2nd, 3rd and 4th states in wind power (Iowa, Cali, Oklahoma) they would ALMOST equal our power output.

So let's say we took the approach that for 2.65 million per windmill, we could edge out Iowa for the top spot in production. That would have left us with 21 billion or so dollars.

Nuclear plants cost around 7 billion to build. We could have built 3 more nuke plants (bringing our total to 5) and STILL lead the nation in wind power.

Only problem was, the gub'ment under Obama wasn't giving free money to states to build nuclear plants. Only green stuff.

So I ask you-- did Texas do a poor job of building stuff with government money, or did the government do a poor job of allocating where and what the money should be spent on?

I guess I do not see them mutually exclusive. My initial reaction is build less windmills, turbines, or whatever they are called and simply prepare them for extreme conditions (hot or cold).

I am not sure how this eliminates the responsibility of State leadership and ERCOT from being better prepared.

Again Texas has extreme weather already, this time the extreme weather wascold. Further this front was identified at least 10 days in advance. Plenty of time for supplemental efforts to be out in place for the energy king of the U.S.

When Texas decided to go on their own for a power grid, the state sure as hell better prepare for these scenarios. There is plenty of money in Texas and plenty of smart people. I think ERCOT to some level has made a nice rebound. I think the issue is not being better prepared and some leadership presenting this failure due to a green movement (i.e. windmills). I mean don't piss on our heads and tell us it's raining...or in this case snowing.

 

[OldHornInPA]

Interesting discussion but I have a different question. Who decides when there is limited power where will that power be allocated and to whom? ERCOT said this was supposed to be rolling blackouts where folks had electricity for awhile then it might shift to neighbors across the street who had been dark before.

We were without power in Arlington for 1.5 days before it came back but were fortunate enough to bunk in with our daughter's crew for a night. Their power went off for about 6 hours, came back on and has stayed on since. While grateful for the refuge, it just seems strange that some parts of the grid were barely affected. I have also heard that Dallas had power and lights on its tall buildings. Is this just sheer luck or were there other decisions made behind the scenes?

We are now hunkered down at home waiting for it to warm up again.

 

[soonersoldier]

Interesting discussion but I have a different question. Who decides when there is limited power where will that power be allocated and to whom? ERCOT said this was supposed to be rolling blackouts where folks had electricity for awhile then it might shift to neighbors across the street who had been dark before.

We were without power in Arlington for 1.5 days before it came back but were fortunate enough to bunk in with our daughter's crew for a night. Their power went off for about 6 hours, came back on and has stayed on since. While grateful for the refuge, it just seems strange that some parts of the grid were barely affected. I have also heard that Dallas had power and lights on its tall buildings. Is this just sheer luck or were there other decisions made behind the scenes?

We are now hunkered down at home waiting for it to warm up again.

You are correct, that was what was supposed to happen. However, I would submit, due to a lack of leadership, preparation, and infrastructure the system failed millions of Texans. I will be interested mostly in the revelations behind ERCOT and who they answer to, and how their power has grown unchecked over the years.

 

[OldHornInPA]

ERCOT has some 'splaining to do it seems. One third of the board don't even live in TX? Downtown Austin garages and buildings lit up while many of us went without power?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...zens-shiver-in-the-rolling-blackouts-n1426119

And now....

Rep. Jeff Leach, R-Plano, told WFAA that he was “totally shocked” to learn a third of the ERCOT Board of Directors lived outside Texas.

“People who are making literally life and death decisions on behalf of our families and our communities don’t even live in the state of Texas,” Leach said. ”… I’m frustrated and cannot believe that the board chair of our leading energy decision maker doesn’t even live in Texas, but lives in Michigan. It just cannot be that way here in the Lone Star State.”

Leach said he has begun drafting legislation to prohibit non-Texans from serving on the ERCOT Board. Now, board members are appointed by a nominating committee made up of current members.

 

[TexLou]

No power in Gruene since about 5am-ish. Starting to get a little chilly in the house. Called NBU and got the computer, not a real person of course. I figure the best way to stay warm is to burn something large and wooden-- and the power pole on my street seems to be the best bet. It would accomplish two things-- the old people on my street would have something warm to huddle around and NB utilities would get cracking on getting the power back on.

Yo Clob, got an extra sofa? Works in Ohio!!!

 

[outhereincali]

ERCOT has some 'splaining to do it seems. One third of the board don't even live in TX? Downtown Austin garages and buildings lit up while many of us went without power?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...zens-shiver-in-the-rolling-blackouts-n1426119

And now....

Rep. Jeff Leach, R-Plano, told WFAA that he was “totally shocked” to learn a third of the ERCOT Board of Directors lived outside Texas.

“People who are making literally life and death decisions on behalf of our families and our communities don’t even live in the state of Texas,” Leach said. ”… I’m frustrated and cannot believe that the board chair of our leading energy decision maker doesn’t even live in Texas, but lives in Michigan. It just cannot be that way here in the Lone Star State.”

Leach said he has begun drafting legislation to prohibit non-Texans from serving on the ERCOT Board. Now, board members are appointed by a nominating committee made up of current members.

Well well Bill Magness presumably living large in MI taking advantage of people in another state and getting rich off them. ERCOT is what happens when deregulation is taken to extreme measures.

 

[clob94]

Now those are some BAD optics...

Very bad optics.

In reality, Ted Cruz has no more control over a state office like ERCOT than I do. However, put your daughters on a private plane and send your wife along as chaperone. Don't go yourself.

 

[soonersoldier]

Well well Bill Magness presumably living large in MI taking advantage of people in another state and getting rich off them. ERCOT is what happens when deregulation is taken to extreme measures.

ERCOT, a non profit powerhouse, has Bill Magness at a cool $800,000 + a year. In the famous words of many, Bill, it's been a good 'un.

Electric Reliability Council Of Texas Inc — Non Profit Data

nonprofitlight.com

 

[clob94]

Well well Bill Magness presumably living large in MI taking advantage of people in another state and getting rich off them. ERCOT is what happens when deregulation is taken to extreme measures.

Yes. ERCOT has some explaining to do. Five of their board members live outside of Texas. One in Michigan-- the head woman in charge. Another guy is a professor at a university in cologne Germany. Freaking Germany. What the fvck is a German scientist living half a world away doing on the board of a Texas power grid?
There are PLENTY of smart engineers here in Texas. No need to outsource those jobs to carpetbaggers and a professor in Europe.

 

[soonersoldier]

Very bad optics.

In reality, Ted Cruz has no more control over a state office like ERCOT than I do. However, put your daughters on a private plane and send your wife along as chaperone. Don't go yourself.

Clob, how about him presumably using his daughters and the "good dad" role as a shield? Geesus, Ted, you just admitted a tough wrong the other day don't bring your family in to it...

 

[TexLou]

Getting the ****ing green weenie for sure. Little electricity and now the water pressure is going down at my house. I have other friends with no electricity and water since Sunday night. If I didn't know the results of stupid liberal policy my family may have frozen to death. I save firewood because every time I see one of those worthless windmill blades blocking the highway, I am reminded that liberals kill. I have a warm house because of my wisdom. The ****ing libs would kill my family in worship of their mother earf. I filled 3 5 gallon buckets full of water 2 days ago in anticipation of the stupid mother ****ers killing the water treatment plants. Next, no gasoline for a week. I found a small gas station close to the house with a little gas. The lines were building when I left.... they aren't getting a truck til maybe sunday. The libs are shoving the green weenie up everyone's ass except china because well they are to be envied. **** you liberals.

Tell us how you really feel!🤣

 

[TexLou]

ERCOT has some 'splaining to do it seems. One third of the board don't even live in TX? Downtown Austin garages and buildings lit up while many of us went without power?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...zens-shiver-in-the-rolling-blackouts-n1426119

And now....

Rep. Jeff Leach, R-Plano, told WFAA that he was “totally shocked” to learn a third of the ERCOT Board of Directors lived outside Texas.

“People who are making literally life and death decisions on behalf of our families and our communities don’t even live in the state of Texas,” Leach said. ”… I’m frustrated and cannot believe that the board chair of our leading energy decision maker doesn’t even live in Texas, but lives in Michigan. It just cannot be that way here in the Lone Star State.”

Leach said he has begun drafting legislation to prohibit non-Texans from serving on the ERCOT Board. Now, board members are appointed by a nominating committee made up of current members.

FYI, the Christmas lights were still on in SA at the Riverwalk, just saying.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Well well Bill Magness presumably living large in MI taking advantage of people in another state and getting rich off them. ERCOT is what happens when deregulation is taken to extreme measures.

Nazi Germany happens when regulations are taken to extreme.

 

[RoboCocks21]

So 90% of Texas is covered by the ERCOT, which yes Texas has its own power grid. The other 10% that is not covered by ERCOT was able to withstand extreme winter temperatures and equipped correctly.

 

[clob94]

So 90% of Texas is covered by the ERCOT, which yes Texas has its own power grid. The other 10% that is not covered by ERCOT was able to withstand extreme winter temperatures and equipped correctly.

Not true. SWEPCO controls most of far East Texas. They had around 24,000 outages.

 

[westx]

So 90% of Texas is covered by the ERCOT, which yes Texas has its own power grid. The other 10% that is not covered by ERCOT was able to withstand extreme winter temperatures and equipped correctly.

I was wondering why I had never even heard of ERCOT until it was mentioned in this thread. I have lived in Texas my entire life. But, ERCOT doesn't control where I grew up, nor where I have lived since.

 

[TX1972]

So the short of this discussion is that Texas built a shit ton of windmills and gambled we didn't need to prepare for really bad winter weather and we lost that bet. Considering this is the worst storm we had in Texas since 1985 I'd say it was a bet worth taking.

The stupid thing isn't the fact we didn't get the winterized version of the windmill, the real stupid thing is that we didn't have a backup to take up the slack when the system went down.

Redundency is the real answer not that we spent fake government money on windmills we should have the redundency to back up these things if there is any natural disaster.

What if it wasn't a winter storm, what if it was some other disaster that took out the windmills, we would still be in the same boat only more screwed. We need backup plants that can withstand several natural disasters and still keep the lights on. We might not like fossil fuel but they still work and keeping them as a backup is still a smart thing to do even if it is an insurance policy.

Ask anyone who makes a living in the IT industry, the more mission critical a system is the more redundency it requires. The rule is, one is none, two is one. The electrical grid should have 3 or 4. This is proof that we aren't ready to colonize Mars, we would die there the first year.

Windmills are privately owned.

 

[StrangerHorn]

Who gives a s*** about the windmills

 

[clob94]

Windmills are privately owned.

Built by corporations but yes, privately owned. Lots of paperwork involved though. It "says" on paper that you own it, but you "really" don't "own" it.

 

[oldhorn2]

when the Catholic church says they own it, you better bet your ass they own it......and do they ever own a shit ton of them....