It is a valid one. They’re not slaves even if they think they are.
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Let's just talk about it 2.0...)
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It is a valid one. They’re not slaves even if they think they are.
To a lesser degree, yes they are. But they are 18 year old kids, they aren't threatening the nuclear option of taking their ball and going home, and they have more leverage than anyone, including the BMDs.
But I've seen a lot of posts criticizing the players that they don't care about the university, only see it as a conduit to the NFL, questioning their commitment to the university. If you are going to question the players commitment to the university, don't turn around and threaten to pull your commitment to the university as a bargaining chip.
Amen. We won’t get a recruit if we act like children about this. On the other hand we will win more recruits if we do the right thing!
You bring up maybe the most important point in this entire thread. The players want people to listen to them, but how willing are they to listen to others? Saying you have a list of demands that must be met is not a way of opening a conversation. It is ending the conversation.
And that is one of the biggest issues with political correctness and cancel culture. It is supposed to be about openness, but what it actually does is mute debate. If you disagree with anything they say, you are branded a racist.
Listening should be a two-way street.
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Well said. As with ANY company, it’s about the people. And, as with any school it’s about the students. As with any team, it’s about the players.
I pay and donate to watch players win games. If my team (the players) are upset over racist issues at my school, I work my ass of to fix it.
If some of you want to cry about something you clearly don’t understand and even more clearly dgaf about, walk away then.
Ok, so they've been upset, so let's acknowledge it's potential racial origin publicly, and establish what the song means today, is that so hard? No one who has sung that song since it became an issue sings it with racial negativity, it's about school pride and the state of Texas. Take this negative and turn it into a positive.
Not a chance. The bigger question will black athletes stop wearing Nike since that shit is made pretty much by slave labor. Probably not.
I mean... don't they have a right to stay... and have their feelings expressed?
I'm with you with regards to the mental approach that needs to be taken.
You’re right, in that sense. I don’t know them personally from Adam. I don’t care any more about their individual political convictions than I’d care about any other 19 year old student’s. My time for them, primarily, is 12 Saturdays in the Fall, most of them in person, cheering them on and following their athletic careers with interest. Off the field, I’ve always wished them well in all endeavors - and would help them directly if/when given the opportunity - because they represent the school (directly) and me (indirectly).
They’ve made it clear though, that they consider this representation to be forced... that their heart isn’t in it. That what I thought was a common bond was really never there to begin with. And that leaves me simply... indifferent. Indifferent towards them, and - if The Eyes is outlawed - indifferent towards the program. I’ll find other ways to spend my time and money.
No. This was utilizing a tragedy to push a different agenda. Not at all multitasking, and if anything distracting and impeding the important conversations.
Nice job. This is precisely how I feel. Opportunistic extortion at it’s finest.
Racism can be easy to prove like the South Carolina church shooting or difficult like the George Floyd case. In most instances it's subjective. In all instances it's not a crime to be racist but rather it elevates a crime committed to a higher punishment. In 2020 it's an attitude and not always an action. In 2020 it has been weaponized since it is something that can't necessary be proven. When something's doesn't fit just call it racism. It can be like chasing a ghost. I do know it exists with all races but in America we think it goes one way. I can tell you 100 percent that I have NEVER cast a vote for a politician based on the color of their skin....can the other side truthfully make that argument?
Since the 1960s we have passed significant amounts of legislation to protect people and there are a multitude of programs in place to elevate people. You know the cup is half full argument? In terms of this topic I think the cup is 3/4 full while other people don't even see the cup.
All bad things are not equal to racism but there are things that are worse.
My line in the sand is the disrespect for women. This hits my core. This is the worst. A man that beats a woman is worse than a racist. This is why Baylor will never be seen in a positive light in my eyes. I think this is why my heart doesn't go out to the players because of the number of athletes that have assaulted women. I still can see multiple instances where an athlete has abused on video. The privilege our society gives to athletes is very concerning to me especially when they commit a crime and get a pass for their athletic accomplishments. The number of times you have reported that a Texas player committed a crime and the majority of the board's first question is "when will he be back?"
In conclusion I do believe that 2020 racism is significantly worse than actions in 1860 or 1920. How can actions be racist when it was just the way things existed. This isn't explaining away anything but rather putting it in context. We always look at the past in context. Can you believe it was proper medical protocol to bleed patients to try and heal? Sticking ice picks up noses to cure mental illness? These things are barbaric BUT it was what they knew based on the limits of their knowledge. Looking at things in the past and judging them with 2020 knowledge and perspective is not fair. In fairness to past generations they didn't have the benefit of the knowledge and experience we have today. The past is put into perspective and not re-litigated.
I do feel for you. Your getting torn from all sides. I am sure the board only knows 10% of your stress. Hopefully the rioting in the 40 acres dies down after CDC issues his statement.
Thanks for all you do. I do think you nailed your response.
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And I hope that you took the time to send this to CDC. He needs to see the thousands of versions of this exact sentiment.
Black people don't seem to view it that way, at least not the black people that I've spoken about it with.
I don't think it will help recruiting, but will definitely hurt if not handled correctly. Winning will help with the recruits we want and I am concerned that this team will not play to its potential because it is distracted.
Sorry, but this a very bad take. Any social activist with half a brain, will tell you there have been GIGANTIC strides since 1979, 1989 and even 1999.
If we want to keep the talk to just about campus, we can. The athletic scholarships available to minorities have changed exponentially in the past 20-30 years. Look at the racial makeup of some of those early 90’s teams vs now. Look at the facilities available, level of tutoring, level of living conditions, level of nutritional science available, etc. Do not buy this argument.
If they attended Minstrel shows at the University of Texas, I'd absolutely agree with you.
The incident they are angry about happened 120 years go.
Literally no one on earth, who was there, is alive today.
Yet somehow we're now being deemed as "not caring" or "not understanding" their experience.
If the "experience" you are referring to is racism, then shouldn't we get rid of everything that has any ties to racism, ever?
America
American Flag
Constitution
Austin
Texas
Every single one of our names can probably be tied back to something racist 200 years ago. Should we all change our names so we don't offend?
By this logic (and again, this is a real concern) anyone can say anything has racial overtones, and be thereby justified in denouncing it and demanding it be removed from public space and public discourse.
Where does it end? As a traditionalist (not a social conservative, mind you, a traditionalist) I have willingly let go of a lot of things to appease the enflamed consciences of the Left. Every time demands are met, though, it seems new demands are fabricated from thin air to replace them. And nothing of substance changes.
sure they do, as long as they participate in all team functions, including recruiting and alumni functions. Otherwise, they can stay and pay their own way or transfer.
Concerning Coach Royal - what about the calls that he was racist and his name should be removed from the stadium? Apologies if already covered, I haven’t read through all 11 pages.
You dont get to play the “they are just kids” argument when they exert pressure to get what they want.
The University will relent as it chases a dollar and the already frayed paper thin student athlete myth catches another hole.
BTW, I’m amused at telling another to forego their more generous contribution. Sounds real sustainable over the long term. I’m sure that in a time of declining attendance combined with a new addition that the administration will follow that track as well.
This issue is bigger than black people. It’s not just their communities affected by police brutality, and a different set of standards for criminal justice. The issues that were brought to light two weeks ago had a chance to really change a lot of poor peoples lives. Now we are talking about songs and buildings.
Like I said in another thread somewhat tongue in cheek, but seems to apply here...
“We’re not good at sports, so nobody gives a shit about our communities.”
He is slated for the round 4 purge. We are still on round 2.
No, what a lot of us are saying is just because you think something is racist doesn't in fact mean its racist. By your logic if a group decides that wearing white socks is racist its therefore racist because they think so.
Perhaps the question is, if you remove the things you are told are offensive, and are then told new things have been found offensive, and you remove those, and again are presented with a fresh set of demands, and so on... And none of the underlying REAL issues improve... At some point it seems like we're rolling down a path where things are being taken away from us out of simple spite.
This whole grievance culture also makes it virtually impossible to have a constructive dialog about race in America. I'm sick of being told that unless I march in 100% lockstep with one side of the discussion then I'm irretrievably racist. It has become something we are petrified to talk about because the least misstep brings out the torch & pitchfork crowd. And so the problem festers.
FWIW I'm not set in stone on whether or not to keep the song. If it's genuinely hurtful then get rid of it. But I don't see anybody making very persuasive arguments (and by persuasive I mean fact-based rather than feeling-based).
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Come on @Ketchum, they did more than "say how they feel". They demanded that the Eyes of Texas be "replaced". Done minimized their demands. That is a disservice to them.
Well, that's part of saying how they feel.
I don't think it would have even come to this if they hadn't previously been in a position were they have felt forced to participate.
I know the question wasn't posed to me, but I honestly had no idea this was an issue until this past week. Although I am a UT grad, it is clear from reading many of the comments over the last few days that I am not nearly as emotionally invested in the song as many (probably most). Nevertheless, I don't find the song racist despite knowing it was performed in a minstrel show years ago (and I realize I'm not the arbiter of what is racist). That said, I have a hard time imagining a scenario where continuing to use the song at events is anything other than divisive. How can we celebrate with The Eyes while an important segment of our community is outwardly offended/bothered by the song and not participating in that celebration? Put another way, if you are in the camp (this comment about "camps" in itself highlights the problem - we shouldn't have "camps" in our community) that is offended or bothered by The Eyes, how do you feel about looking in the stands after a game and seeing your peers celebrating with a song that you find offensive? Or seeing some of your teammates sing The Eyes? I don't know if including the song in the list of demands is a bargaining ploy to gain leverage in dealing with the other issues or if there is a genuine desire to impact how the song is used (if at all). Either way, I fear the damage has been done and we can't put this cow back in the barn. Strange days.
It would be refreshing if it were simply a mental reset and acknowledgement but in light of today’s culture, it would be naive to see it anything but gone.
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