Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Let's just talk about it 2.0...)

Royal Soil

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You know the Brockermeyers? Are they pretty cool?

Can only assume you know them personally to refer to them as privileged white boys. Otherwise you would be making judgments about kids you don’t know based on their skin tone - commonly referred to as racism.
Making judgments about kids you don't know based on their skin tone is not necessarily racism. It could just be good business. Look at advertising, fund raising, etc. If I am asked about what type of music or food or sports a kid might like I would likely make a judgment that a black kid preferred one kind and a white kid another. I might be right or I might be wrong. But it is not racist. Racism is prejudice, discrimination or adverse treatment because of their skin color. Cultural likes and dislikes are not racism although some people try to make it so.
 

TNobis60

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Making judgments about kids you don't know based on their skin tone is not necessarily racism. It could just be good business. Look at advertising, fund raising, etc. If I am asked about what type of music or food or sports a kid might like I would likely make a judgment that a black kid preferred one kind and a white kid another. I might be right or I might be wrong. But it is not racist. Racism is prejudice, discrimination or adverse treatment because of their skin color. Cultural likes and dislikes are not racism although some people try to make it so.

Was his purpose in calling them privileged white boys any of the reasons you listed?
 

BevosRevenge

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A Varsity minstrel show was scheduled for Wednesday evening, May 12, 1903, in the Hancock Opera House on West Sixth Street, and was packed with music, dances, skits, and even a tumbling act. Proceeds from the show would pay for the University Track team to attend the All-South Track and Field Competition in Atlanta.

Leading off the show was an overture by the Varsity Band, followed by songs titled Oh, The Lovely Girls, Old Kentucky Home and The Castle on the Nile performed by the University Chorus or student soloists. The fourth piece listed on the printed program was cryptically labeled a “Selection” by the Varsity Quartet.

With President Prather sitting in the audience, four students: Jim Kivlehen, Ralph Porter, Bill Smith and Jim Cannon, accompanied by John Lang Sinclair on the banjo, took the stage and unleashed Sinclair’s creation:

I once did know a President, a way down South, in Texas.

And, always, everywhere he went, he saw the Eyes of Texas.

The Eyes of Texas are upon you, all the livelong day.

The Eyes of Texas are upon you, you cannot get away.

Do not think you can escape them, at night or early in the morn –

The Eyes of Texas are upon you, ’til Gabriel blows his horn.

Sing me a song of Prexy, of days long since gone by.

Again I seek to greet him, and hear his kind reply.

Smiles of gracious welcome, before my memory rise,

Again I hear him say to me, “Remember Texas’ Eyes.”

Before the first verse was finished, the crowd was in an uproar. By the end of the song, the audience was pounding the floor and demanding so many encores that members of the quartet grew hoarse and had to sing We’re Tired Out. The Varsity Band learned the tune, and the following evening included The Eyes on its Promenade Concert around the campus.


All of this occurred at a MINSTREL SHOW!


 
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tex17

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You realize the administration doesn't have a choice, dont you? Here are their three options:

1. Cave into demands.
2. Initially tell the players to kick rocks, players continue to protest and boycott until the PR gets so bad for the administration that they are forced to cave in, but this time with egg on their face.
3. Work with the players to get them agree to play the song but dont make the players stand for it. Within a week, all black band members are protesting and all other band members are protesting along side them that they won't play the song. Once again now the admin has to cave in with egg on their face.

They will cave with egg on their face or without egg on their face. Sorry, there is no way this turns out the way you want it to.
Ideally, it would be 4. Explain to the players how they have been misled, when there is actually no racist content, connotation, undertones, or anything to the song, which instead is sung by the entire fanbase as a sign of unity or respect for the entire university, especially as a way for fans to show appreciation for the players. Pretty much solves everything right there.
 
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FrankS1985

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Are you no longer supporting the university or the team over this issue? Are you refusing to show up and support the program if the eyes of texas isn't played anymore? If so, I find that attitude childish.

And it will no longer cost $6400 for club seats if everyone like you decides to walk away for good. Simple supply demand price curve economics. So when I say I'll gladly take your seats, I'll take them at a heavy discount when you and all your BMD buddies decide to boycott the program over this issue.
I think you are probably correct about attendance and then prices falling. Every reply from players I saw on twitter to someone who complained about losing the song was "good riddance".
 

wtexaswiggle

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The precedent of it all, should all of these demands be met, will be monumental. It will potentially put the BOR and CDC through a never-ending series of referendums made "willy nilly" by any student group on campus moving forward.

Another concern is the ever-increasing number of woke people on campus (echo-chamber) and elsewhere "looking" for racism where it does NOT exist and the number of those self-identifying with victimhood in order to push an agenda. Sam Harris frequently discusses the potential fallout or consequence of continuing to do this. It's largely white liberal progressives that do this repeatedly in the name of change. It's callous and potentially dangerous, yet any of the unintended consequences of this falls directly on our black communities. The very definition of racism is getting completely turned upside down and bastardized. When you yell "fire" in a crowded theater enough, does it not lose its value over time? It has the potential to breed contempt, animus, and further division if continued to be used for political expediency or incite those with differing opinion.

I'm sympathetic to the cause but not the way in which it is being systematically rammed through institutions all over the country as though they're trying to beat the next news cycle. Americans are out of work, jobs and businesses destroyed forever, and we have a pandemic still killing thousands. Tearing down some statues, renaming some buildings, dropping a 107-year old song/tradition at the drop of a hat, and requesting $1M+ to go to special political action groups might seem completely harmless to many (i.e. nothing to see here folks) but seems fairly fool-hardy to others in light of all that has transpired in the past 3 months. If that's the precedent we want to take at this time, so be it. I feel perpetually stuck somewhere in the middle.

People need to be very vigilant in how they express themselves and treat others period. I try my best to be open-minded. We're trying to come together....not split further apart and that is a major concern all over the country right now. Regardless of political affiliation, we all have more in common than what separates us. Some of us need to be reminded of that. Regardless of outcome, I hope we find solace in that common ground and stay firmly rooted in it.
 
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Reaper1

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Why didn't you mention the words minstrel show at any point in your post?
Why haven't you mentioned, in any of your posts, that The Eyes of Texas holds NO current racist meaning? I wonder, if maybe, furthering the idea that it MAY have, over a hundred years ago promotes a certain political agenda.
 

Reaper1

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Because it is a red herring.
Do you realize that almost every song written prior to the mid 20th century was probably sung at a minstrel show? That doesn't make mistrel shows less racist, but it does mitigate the fact that anything performed at a minstrel show is inherently racist.
The fact is debuted in that manner doesn't make it racist.
Is the National Anthem racist?
Is God Bless American racist?
Is Rock a Bye Baby racist?
Is California, Here I Come racist?
All of those songs were sung for decades by Al Jolson, who primarily performed in blackface.
C'mon now, he's laser focused on something, don't confuse him.
 

TD TX TD VY

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all the evidence points to Dr. Moore as the guilty party. The university needs to investigate his role in all of this.
I'm not very pleased by what I've read about his role in this. He should by all means not shy from teaching about the race issues and the history of that, but he seems to have a particular zeal for shining a spotlight on his employer, UT, and I'm dubious as to whether he's teaching these things in an appropriate context.

Let me explain. It seems more reasonable to me to look at the history of the Eyes of Texas as evidence of how our society has changed for the better, how thousands of longhorns now associate the words and tune of the Eyes of Texas only with school and state pride, than it is to focus on the unsavory but very tenuous connections that existed over a century ago.
 

Reaper1

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I've provided you documentation that The Eyes of Texas did not originate from a minstrel show performance. It both predated and post-dated that single performance. You know, if you read what I provided you, that the song was not and has never been racist.

I asked you specifically if you read the information I provided you. You didn't answer the question. You provided a vague dodge implication of guilt by proximity.
As expected. Your documentation doesn't promote the agenda.
 

wfoot

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The article about the origin of "The Eyes" posted on UT's own history page makes it perfectly clear that the origin of the song was not racist in any sense. That it was sung by racists in 1903 does not change the fact that the song is not racist in origin or intent.
 

Dos Horns

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I suggest you read this: HISTORY OF STUDENT ACTIVISM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN (1960-1988). See if you can find any mention of the Eye's being racist.

As a student during the late 60s and friend of Ernie Haywood, there was never a mention about the Eye's being racist. Read the history of the fight against racism in the 60s on the UT campus and in the City of Austin. That was where the battle was. Segregation in housing, restaurants, bars, transportation, etc.. We made progress and won.

Now we have some babies crying about a song? Give me a fkn break.

This man speaks the truth, Level 1. To compare these naive kids and paid thugs to MLK and the civil rights movement is asinine ignorance. These self-labeled “protesters“ are apparently unaware who is funding all this BS. They are but pawns in a bigger game.

It’s an election year, thus especially important for everyone to follow the money and check “sources”, something I doubt many folks are doing. There will be another so-called crisis soon enough, then an election, then likely 4 more years of whining. SMH
 
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proffhorn94

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Band may not play it, but it will be sung by many. Count on it.
Absolutely. As is their right. It's a tenuous connection to the people who fought to keep slavery (make no mistake, that's what the War of Northern Aggression was truly about; the planters used the 'state's rights' horse hockey to get the dirt farmers to go die for them), but it's not worth fighting over, imo.(Yes, i was part of the last generation raised on the Nobility in Defeat hocum...and, dern it, I'd still run through a brick wall for Gen. Lee! But I'm over the other horseshite) let the SEC schools (who do have REAL connections to the confederacy) burn. If we fight against this, aggie, bama et al will be all over prospects about how 'racist' we are.

I'm guessing CDC works out some compromise - maybe change the words to "They Eyes of Texas are OOOOPEEENN" meanwhile we all sing the original phrase.
 

Mike

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I’d feel more sympathy for your plight this weekend if a good number of your responses didn’t seem more trite and pot stirring then any else.
Probably just your delivery.

Texas fight at the end? Hard pass. Seems like a great tune to sing after a loss... Might as well just make the new song Don’t Stop Believing. I predict a ton of empty seats at the end. How many people stayed till the end as an obligation to sing the Eyes?

Texas has not won one football game because fans stay after the game to sing. It requires players. The song is going to go. Just get over it.
 

I Hear Voices

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This man speaks the truth, Level 1. To compare these naive kids and paid thugs to MLK and the civil rights movement is asinine ignorance. These self-labeled “protesters“ are apparently unaware who is funding all this BS. They are but pawns in a bigger game.

It’s an election year, thus especially important for everyone to follow the money and check “sources”, something I doubt many folks are doing. There will be another so-called crisis soon enough, then an election, then likely 4 more years of whining. SMH
If you left out "paid thugs" would you be happier with the comparison?
 

Royal Soil

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Texas has not won one football game because fans stay after the game to sing. It requires players. The song is going to go. Just get over it.
That's a rather shallow take on things.
 

Ketchum

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Why haven't you mentioned, in any of your posts, that The Eyes of Texas holds NO current racist meaning? I wonder, if maybe, furthering the idea that it MAY have, over a hundred years ago promotes a certain political agenda.
Because I don't get to define what is racist and what isn't to black people. They are telling us what they feel.
 
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Dugg

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I think you are probably correct about attendance and then prices falling. Every reply from players I saw on twitter to someone who complained about losing the song was "good riddance".
If that is the prevalent thought, then it says a lot about them just wanting a dialogue. That said, they better win.
Texas has not won one football game because fans stay after the game to sing. It requires players. The song is going to go. Just get over it.
Never said it was going to stay, that ship has sailed. By your logic, Texas has not won a game due to alot of things. like attendance, most cheering, etc.
You seem to fall into the 'just do anything as long as they play' camp.
 
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Ketchum

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And we are trying to tell them what we feel. People who have no racist inclinations do not deserve to be told something they value is racist. This is a two way street.
The people who say they have no racist inclinations often couldn't see the inclinations if it was right in their face.
 

ZLonghorn99

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The people who say they have no racist inclinations often couldn't see the inclinations if it was right in their face.

ketch, cmon man. You’re effectively saying many white folks are too stupid to even know they’re racist. That’s a bit over the line.

The simple fact is that the lyrics of the song have nothing to do with race. You can admit that and still support the fact that blacks may feel racial undertones because of the song’s origin in the minstrel show.
 

Ketchum

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ketch, cmon man. You’re effectively saying many white folks are too stupid to even know they’re racist. That’s a bit over the line.

The simple fact is that the lyrics of the song have nothing to do with race. You can admit that and still support the fact that blacks may feel racial undertones because of the song’s origin in the minstrel show.
Stupid isn't the word I would use.

But, I literally didn't know that black people had a problem with the song until last week.

Everyone's case is different, but we're not collectively seeing things.
 

Platform Switch

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Just my 2 cents but as a proud multiple graduate of the university, it’s just a song.

I certainly understand the perspective of those that believe it is not racist, as that is how I originally viewed it, and it’s a song that I have certainly enjoyed singing as a child, student, and adult in good times and bad. But if we hope for the university to last indefinitely, as we should, we should have a song of which all students and alumni can be proud.

Let’s scrap the song. It’s barely over 100 years old... hardly an infallible “tradition” in the grand scheme of the university from a long term perspective. Let’s get on with it an play some ball as a unified entity.
 
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TD TX TD VY

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The people who say they have no racist inclinations often couldn't see the inclinations if it was right in their face.
Yeah I don't know about all that.

But people inclined to see something as racist often can't see something like this any other way.
 

TD TX TD VY

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Stupid isn't the word I would use.

But, I literally didn't know that black people had a problem with the song until last week.

Everyone's case is different, but we're not collectively seeing things.
You not knowing they had a problem with it is evidence of what? White people not being able to see their own racism?
 

MEP1992

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Do you realise that I have never even seen a minstrel show? I was born in 1977.

Again, you are taking the stance, on this issue, that culture and people cannot evolve over time. On other issues, you rightly point out that those things can and do evolve. The meaning of this song has been unrelated to race for something like 8 decades before I was born.

Now you are telling me the song as racial undertones, that the meaning of the song is something other than pride and love for UT. But that's not what the song means to me. It's not what the meaning has been for over 100 years.

What matters more: that the song's current day meaning (for over 100 years) is something pure, and positive, and inclusive. Or that 117 years ago that might not have been the case?
Nor has Geoff or any of us. Guess i will search netflix tonight :D
 

jtchorn

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The non-demand approach is currently seen as one that has been highly ineffective.
Have they even brought it up before the demand? Maybe a discussion would have been effective but at least as far as I’m aware, a discussion or request never happened.