Dogma is part of the far left doctrine. If you can't win hearts & minds through thoughtful debate, logic & facts, then by all means, ram it down their throats by whipping out the old proverbial 'race card.'
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Let's just talk about it 2.0...)
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Dogma is part of the far left doctrine. If you can't win hearts & minds through thoughtful debate, logic & facts, then by all means, ram it down their throats by whipping out the old proverbial 'race card.'
I haven't seen much of that, other than to know the charges of racism is something he used to deal with.
UT football and the school was for whites only for a long time. It seeped racism from every pore. In fact, for probably most of it’s existence.
Why not just throw everything else and start anew? If we take this current situation to it’s logical end, that we are washing away the racism of the past so everyone feels comfortable, isn’t that what has to happen?
For one, the fact that this conversation is even happening. What do you think would have happened in 1999 if the players did the same thing? We both see some of the subtle racist remarks being made now, there would have been zero subtlety back then.
For the first time ever, at least half the fan base wants to hear what these players are saying, and try to empathize. Please don’t pretend they would have had a receptive platform back then. Change finally happens when people are willing to listen. The ability to capitalize on people willing to listen, could be bigger than desegregation. I say this because desegregation was forced, and people willing to listen is voluntary. Only through a voluntary desire to help/change will racial inequities begin to lessen.
what HAS to happen is of a murky nature, mostly because of so little actually happening for so much time.
Isn't that enough in this society?
He was a coach who could have done more but didn't. The case would easily be made that he either explicitly or implicitly denied opportunities to AAs. All it takes if for the perception to take hold in a minor capacity.
I jokingly said previously that he was slated for the Round 4 purge, but is it really that unbelievable given the now tarnished Eyes.
When I read his quote I thought it a good quote it was OK. However, I do remember an article in Sports Illustrated in the early 70's about the racial integration of Texas Football. I remember a quote from DKR in it about how it wasn't that they were doing anything against them its just that they weren't doing anything for them. Something along those lines. It would be interesting to revisit that article again if any one could get access.
You don’t think them expressing themselves and somebody listening isn’t gigantic?
You obviously don’t understand what it means when minority groups state that they don’t have a powerful enough voice to force real changes.
That is a non-answer though. What is the endgame here? For everyone to feel comfortable? We will be chasing the sun until nothing is left then, right? Is there some line there that is off-limits, or are we just rolling into the abyss until this thing stops at an undefined point?
The players have come together in solidary to state that they won't support recruiting until their demands are met. To understand your point, you are saying that by refusing to support any recruiting efforts going forward, that this will actually supercharge recruiting efforts by the coaches?
It just seems like the experience recruits will get at Alabama, LSU, Ohio State and Clemson will be perceived differently by prospective recruits visiting (and communicating) than with Texas. The recruits at other schools will be dealing with other young men going through the same challenges when they visit and in their communications. It would seem like the connection they get with their like minded peers at those schools will be more beneficial to recruiting, than being told that Texas is not the place they should choose from the silence and lack of contact they get when they visit Texas. It would just seem hard to present an atmosphere of teamwork and family, when the family is refusing to talk to them.
I really hope you are correct. I just don't see it. Also, I wasn't even talking about recruiting. That will negatively affect future seasons. I am worried about 2020. History is pretty clear on what happens to a college football team when it diverts its focus away from football.
Also, at Missou, there was a spike in the number of player academic failures and drop-outs after their challenge. We may see this soon at Texas. Being a member of an NCAA P5 competitive sports team is extremely demanding on the players. You appear to see these demands as the university stealing from them, but the players won't meet their dreams of the NFL or personal development without working together as a team. I can't imagine being successful at that gauntlet with what they are going through.
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I think it's a hell of a thing to make that claim that the last 20 years have been full of gigantic leaps because the kids made a statement that started a tsunami of reaction a mere three days ago.
Is there a metric we can use to look back on in 10 years and say whether this move had a positive impact?
The problem with this statement (and entire argument) is that "black people" are not unified in their view of this song. By the way, white people aren't unified in all their thoughts either. Neither are half white, half black people, neither are Hispanic people, Native American people...
SOME black people are telling is that they view some things as racist, some flatly think the song is just a school song.
There are no absolutes. Someone is going to be upset any way this gets sliced.
I dunno... what do you think? Surely, the minds of OB can think of something.
"Forced to participate"? Ummm, no one forced them to go to UT.
The Eyes of Texas is not racist.
Saying it makes someone uncomfortable doesn't make it racist.
It wasn't racist when it was written, and it isn't racist now.
Society was certainly SIGNIFICANTLY more racist when it was written. The fact it was written in a racist society doesn't make it racist.
It seems the Eyes removal demand was added at the end of the list as a dagger to the fans of UT.
The removal of the Eyes of Texas will cause much more discord than any other of the athletes demands (of which all of the rest I agree with).
I think it is a fair question to ask what is the point of college athletics. If playing for UT is such a negative experience for these athletes, why perpetuate it? Just shut it down.
Playing Texas Fight after a game would seem to be a workable compromise.
I wonder if someone will ask Dr Moore or the players. Even if 100% of their demands are met, outside of more inner city work, how is anyone's life better?
And since you and @Anwar Richardson have access to the players, one huge impact they can make without spending anything but their time is mentoring at risk youth via the Boys & Girls club of Austin. Weekly not a once a year photo op.
And I've got PLENTY of other easy suggestions for them. We will see how committed they are to this.
It's hard to steal 2nd with one foot firmly planted on 1st.
Good stuff @Ketchum but i'm just a Libtard Ketch apologist.
The 1st step to recovery is admitting your problem.
I would say America electing a black president has to rank pretty high up on the list of gigantic strides. But maybe that's just me.
“We all might want to play the "that stuff happened over 100 years ago" card, but you know what happened a little more than 150 years ago?”
100-150 years ago? I’m glad my parents and my grandparents and great grandparents didn’t have slaves but were doctors and often treated blacks and took gifts as payment. Not sure why I’m considered a racist, is itcause I’m white?
The Politically Correct narrative has cost many a job to those that don't bend to it or apologize for it, how is this any different? Like attacking the Tenured Prof at UCLA that didn't believe changing the date of a test, so students could go protest, the right course of action. Doesn't mean he's not sensitive to whats happening but believes it's not fair to have it disrupt his class. I would say 99% of the people not apologizing aren't racist, they just see the bigger picture and I think they believe the Marxist teachings in our schools since the beginning of the 20th century are gaining a foothold and they fear for our Democracy.
100-150 years ago? I’m glad my parents and my grandparents and great grandparents didn’t have slaves but were doctors and often treated blacks and took gifts as payment. Not sure why I’m considered a racist, is itcause I’m white?
The Politically Correct narrative has cost many a job to those that don't bend to it or apologize for it, how is this any different? Like attacking the Tenured Prof at UCLA that didn't believe changing the date of a test, so students could go protest, the right course of action. Doesn't mean he's not sensitive to whats happening but believes it's not fair to have it disrupt his class. I would say 99% of the people not apologizing aren't racist, they just see the bigger picture and I think they believe the Marxist teachings in our schools since the beginning of the 20th century are gaining a foothold and they fear for our Democracy.
Why didn't you mention the words minstrel show at any point in your post?
We're talking about The University of Texas, specifically.
You're creeping up on 10,000!And yet you didn't even give it 1 like. WTH?!?
Please. Everybody or group has dogma. You could argue that the Ten Commandments is the dogma of Christian based faiths. And the fact that you said what you did suggests to me that it is part of your dogma.
My issue with current winds of movements- not only this but “me too” as well- haven’t defined endpoints like civil rights movements of the past like the right to vote, end Jim Crow and outlaw public discrimination, etc.
I think this leads to irrational thoughts and action and could lead to a worse place. Let’s define a goal here and then set out to do it. I don’t see how cancelling the Eyes or reshaping it accomplishes any long term goal, but if the argument is solid that it does, I am willing to consider. We need to know what the goal is and how to measure it though.
Sorry you think this “awareness” just happened. The actions have been slowly building since Obama came into power. The turning of ESPN into a more social aware network didn’t happen overnight. The sympathy/positive coverage from the media has been a very slow buildup to a Ferguson, where it really started to shine a very bright light on the policing in this country. Many other examples.
This expression by the student athletes is only able to happen, and be taken seriously because of the ground work laid before them. This statement was able to garner the attention it did ONLY because of the slow painful strides that have happened to start to shift the mindset of most Americans to finally say “Yes, we want to listen”. This statement able to as powerful as it was in great part to social media. Players in 1999 didn’t have the platform available. They didn’t have a way to get a glimpse that they were not isolated in their anger, and helps give them confidence to speak up.
Absurd to think MASSIVE societal changes haven’t happened in 20 years to reach this point.
I'm shamelessly seeking that long sought-after goal.
So the President of the US has no bearing on the social situation at UT? That’s pretty silly.
what about on campus. That's the thing we were originally talking about until you started going on about society.
