No, I respond to the critical points. Sometimes you have to eliminate 1,000 words to get to the 20 that are worthy of giving attention to and discussion.
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Let's just talk about it 2.0...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
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Not only have I never been aware of the song's beginnings, the song has never had anything to do with race in my lifetime. I've sung the song with pride and love for my university. That's what the song is to us.
I don't want the song to be hurtful to my black friends. I think a dialogue about what the song actually means to all of us might help. Who knows, maybe the perception of the song could change for the black community if we could clearly define what it means to us--simple love and pride for UT.
You've made the point, and rightly so, that people evolve. Culture evolves. This song evolved into something positive over 100 years ago--if it were ever negative to begin with. Meaning can change over a century.
Perhaps the question is, are you willing to let black people tell you what is offensive to them instead of having white people define it for them?
Isn't that the root if this discussion?
Black people are telling us that they view something as racist and most of the conversation has been, "nah, you guys don't know what you're talking about."
sure we can.
I'm not racist in my heart, but I acknowledge the shit out of its existence.
It's actually pretty easy to do.
I'm curious that not one person in 300+ replies has made one comment about this Royal quote.
I find it significant.
“See, back when I was coaching, you didn’t see black families coming to the game. You didn’t see black families wearing orange and white. You didn’t see little kids of the family with little Texas sweaters on. You just didn’t see it. You didn’t see blacks at the game. Well, obviously that’s all changed. It’s integrated and it’s a thing of the past, thank goodness. Those kids have families, and just like everyone else, their families show up to the game, and they show up in support. And they’re ‘hookin’em, Horns.’ That thing is disappearing about the University of Texas. Time has taken care of it.”
I find it significant.
“See, back when I was coaching, you didn’t see black families coming to the game. You didn’t see black families wearing orange and white. You didn’t see little kids of the family with little Texas sweaters on. You just didn’t see it. You didn’t see blacks at the game. Well, obviously that’s all changed. It’s integrated and it’s a thing of the past, thank goodness. Those kids have families, and just like everyone else, their families show up to the game, and they show up in support. And they’re ‘hookin’em, Horns.’ That thing is disappearing about the University of Texas. Time has taken care of it.”
But the song is not racist. We don't sing it for any reason related to race. I know we have to lose it now, it's been taken from us.
On this issue, you are taking the stance that we cannot evolve as people. We cannot change. It was racist 117 years ago, so it is always racist. I disagree. The song's meaning as been about pride and love for UT for many decades before I was even born.
There is a difference between acknowledging people's feelings and agreeing with them. I am not saying the University should discount their feelings. If they do not want to stand for the Eyes, fine.
But whether or not to play the song partially or at all comes down to the University making a call on how the song should be viewed.
Besides, what about Black people who are okay with the song? Do their feelings count?
do you understand how insulting minstrel shows are to black people?
Saying the song originated from a minstrel show performance isn't much different than saying it originated at a Klan rally to black people. Like I said, it's spitting in the face type stuff.
a. You make a couple fo good points.
b. Among them, not all black people are upset about this.
Do you realise that I have never even seen a minstrel show? I was born in 1977.
Again, you are taking the stance, on this issue, that culture and people cannot evolve over time. On other issues, you rightly point out that those things can and do evolve. The meaning of this song has been unrelated to race for something like 8 decades before I was born.
Now you are telling me the song as racial undertones, that the meaning of the song is something other than pride and love for UT. But that's not what the song means to me. It's not what the meaning has been for over 100 years.
What matters more: that the song's current day meaning (for over 100 years) is something pure, and positive, and inclusive. Or that 117 years ago that might not have been the case?
I do realize that.
I'm just not sure that it matters that YOU'VE not been to one.
This isn't about our experience. This is about THEIR experience.
They are asking that their experience matter and for you to not dismiss it simply because it hasn't previously registered in your world.
I am old enough to remember when I came to OB to read about football. Those were the days. Was a nice escape to focus on a unifying sport and program.
Perception is not reality. Listen to one another. I see more now the arch of racism than ever before. I have been a part of that racism in the past, some knowingly and some not. I am ashamed. I want to understand more of what black America feels and respond. But, I do not want to change things just for perception. I want the truth if possible to know when it comes to The Eyes of Texas. Like it states on the tower, “You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (Of course the Truth referred to is Jesus).
The disturbing part of all this is feelings getting in the way of facts. Prather stole the quote from Lee, and the students were inspired by Prather, NOT Lee. The fact that the most offensive part of everything, blackface, is not even known with certainty is scary. How are so many ready to dispose of history without knowing more information or having the facts correct? I'm all for the school digging up and airing all the dirty laundry of the past to come clean and deal with it's past, even if it looks poorly on the song, but I'm not ready to dispose of tradition without having the facts. Strange times we live in.
I have given you crap and went out of my normal to be an ass to you but I felt that was a great write up. It fairly and accurately educates the board on what is going on behind the scenes. Thanks for bringing some sanity to a crazy mess. Also I was at your number 2 game on the A&M sidelines thanks to my ex girlfriends BMD dad getting us access. Watching James Brown, another setx product, beat A&M on a hobbled ankle was an all time great for me.
The song was the product of a racist society. Practically every Texas tradition is the product of a racist society. Probably the best thing about all of this is that we are looking at and acknowledging that history more closely. Most people did not understand before all this how prevalent minstrel shows were as a regular form of entertainment.
I would argue that trying to "cleanse" ourselves of all vestiges of our racist past is not only impossible but in a sense detrimental to educational awareness. Replacing the Eyes of Texas does not erase the history it came from.
Their experience does matter--which is why I would suggest a healthy dialogue to clearly define what the song means now. I don't want them to stand there after a game and feel like we are all singing a song that in some way demeans their culture, their family, their ancestors. What I've always loved about The Eyes is that it's a song about OUR culture--all of us who love and support this university, regardless of race, background, or whatever else divides us. The school UNIFIES us.
But that cannot happen now. We have all been given a new definition of what the song means, even though that's not what it means to nearly all of us. The genie won't go back in the bottle. It's gone. And I think we are supposed to feel guilty for singing it, even though none of knew that it was performed in a minstrel show 117 years ago, and none of has thought of anything other than our school when we've sung it.
For the record, I never said I would take your tickets off your hand. I said that when people like you stop donating and give up your seats, it will be easier and cheaper for me to upgrade mine.
Not re-framing anything. I'm questioning your dedication and maturity when you are willing to boycott the program over a 30 second post-game ritual.
No the demands and actions taken by the players have crossed a line of just asking for us to listen, compassion and empathy. They refused to recruit until their demands are met. That is action detrimental to the program that they benefit from by the grace of several longhorn foundation members and fans who purchase tickets. I personally did not need the players to make demands and threatened to hurt the program in order to gain my support on removing racist names from buildings (assuming the endowment and trust issues can be worked out) and remove statues from campus or many of the other things they listed.
The players, whether intended or not, chose to interject a racist connotation about the Eyes of Texas into the media which might have already tarnished that tradition for good. In the real world, actions have consequences and the players should not be able to cry foul when those who have supported them over the years stand up and try to open dialogue to illustrate the song is more than its origin and can be used for good. If this is just supposed to be a one-sided conversation from the players point of view then the players should be prepared for the consequences their actions will have on them and the future recruits/players that will lose out on the benefits the current players enjoy when I chose to donate my money to the University’s academic institution instead of the athletic program.
I am for the players having a voice but this type of overstepping and jumping the shark turned me away from the NFL and now looks like it will do the same for my beloved longhorns. I can listen to them but I don’t have to be dictated to and forced to sit quietly while I use my hard earned money for their benefit. Especially when my University’s meaningful traditions are being eroded. The players can then attempt to get admitted into Texas through academics just like I did.
They have the choice to leave if it bothers them so much. No need to swallow their “feelings”.
GREAT link!
I'd be curious to know how most POC feel about the song AFTER they read this article? Seems much more understandable to not be offended by the song if this is the true origin story.
But if I've learned anything the last 3 weeks, it's that I have no right to project how someone else should feel.
Let's hope we can get back to that on some level. I need a season.
I agree with you 100%. I just think that Texas stepping up as the NCAA model SJW football team may be a distraction. Maybe they are doing it also, but I haven't seen the other top NCAA P5 top football teams getting the national attention that Texas is getting. I just think we should all be prepared to love our players for being better human beings, and not be critical when they play other teams that are aligned to the needs of a P5 level sports team. There is only so much energy and focus that a 18-22 year old can sustain. It appears most of our team's energy and focus is not on football. I am making no judgement as to whether that is appropriate or not. In fact, I am ok with the setback that I see coming, based on the turmoil thrust upon these young men. Again, I 100% agree with you, right now, their top priority isn't football. I just don't think many in this community will be prepared for what may be an ugly football season.
I mean... were this a minstrel show without blackface? I've yet to see a UT historian say they weren't in blackface. It's like saying you read Playboy as a child, but never looked at the nudies.
He just thinks this is over a 30-second post-game ritual. I guess he was just going through the motions.
I think I could argue that the best thing Texas could do for recruiting is to be super proactive and a leader on this front.
I don't see this as a distraction in the sense that some others do.
I see this is an opportunity. Several of them, actually.
Dude, didn’t you see the video??? Two minute Twitter videos outweigh a hundred years of history in today’s world.
Wait until some feminist complains about the shape.
