OT: Cali Shooting

[Scholz]

Fair enough Scholz you are entitled to your own opinion but I have a feeling when the next 9-11 you'll be back on board of the deportation train idea. Also I find it amusing that your President is all for gun control but at the same time he is being accused of supplying arms to ISIS. There is a word for that Scholz, do you know what that is?

Umm no. I wasn't in favor of Japanese internment camps either nor yellow stars for the Jews. But knock yourself out.

I'm not sure what words you're looking for. Maybe crazy conspiracy theories born out of racism?

He's your President too btw. What a patriotic group you conservatives are.

 

[Scholz]

Bernardino is not about gun control, it is islamic terrorism.

Umm, when the NRA fights for the rights of those on a no fly list to purchase any firearms they want, the two issues can exist at once and it is most certainly a gun control issue.

 

[mm42]

oldschool: What's a wow is so many ignorant conservatives in this country. Educate yourself, aggy. Read. Comprehend.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/domestic-terrorism-charleston_n_7654720.html

At least 48 people have been killed stateside by right-wing extremists in the 14 years since since the September 11 attacks -- almost twice as many as were killed by self-identified jihadists in that time,...The study found that radical anti-government groups or white supremacists were responsible for most of the terror attacks...The data counters many conventional thoughts on what terrorism is and isn’t. Since Sept. 11, many Americans attribute terror attacks to Islamic extremists instead of those in the right wing. But the numbers don't back up this popular conception...Law enforcement agencies reported they were more concerned about the activities of right-wing extremist groups than Islamic extremists...

48 in 14 years. I actually thought it would have been much worse. At the 3 or so a year, it will take many centuries to match 9-11.
I hate these skinhead dipshits too, but 48 pales in comparison to thousands on 9-11.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I assumed people were talking about "radical terrorist muslims" because a couple of jihadist struck our country yesterday.
Sandy Hook was a perfect moment to talk about gun control and mental health issues. San Bernardino is not about gun control, it is islamic terrorism.
Guns are a problem in our society, but you hurt the cause when you blame one problem on another that fits your political narrative.

mm42 There have been 353 Mass shootings this year. Not everyone of them have "radical terrorist muslim" written on them. I'd say we have a huge problem with American terrorist.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

I agree. I think the racist, WHITE, anti-government, domestic terrorist gun nuts need to be called out. You know, the ones who shoot up Planned Parenthood clinics and black churches and schools and theaters? Cliven Bundy and his followers who pointed assault rifles at federal agents? They're a MUCH bigger threat to national security than any foreign Muslim. So tired of this PC crap. Call the racist redneck morons out for who they are.

Does the Blacks get a pass for burning towns and shooting Cops Scholz? Your saying the Whites burn churches, Well, Biz has been slow after the Blacks burn the town as the Whites can find the church as the whole town is a pile of ashes, I think its a little of everyone's fault not just the Whites or the Blacks, every ethnic group has their " Hardliners" that like to push the envelope to the extreme, by the way Obama said we needed more gun control, didn't say a damn word about the IED's or pipe bombs....


Hook'em

 

[Scholz]

48 in 14 years. I actually thought it would have been much worse. At the 3 or so a year, it will take many centuries to match 9-11.
I hate these skinhead dipshits too, but 48 pales in comparison to thousands on 9-11.

It is much, much worse. The issue is white people aren't labeled "terrorists" for whatever reason. And it's not just skinheads on the margins of society.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Does the Blacks get a pass for burning towns and shooting Cops Scholz? Your saying the Whites burn churches, Well, Biz has been slow after the Blacks burn the town as the Whites can find the church as the whole town is a pile of ashes, I think its a little of everyone's fault not just the Whites or the Blacks, every ethnic group has their " Hardliners" that like to push the envelope to the extreme, by the way Obama said we needed more gun control, didn't say a damn word about the IED's or pipe bombs....


Hook'em

Flour I don't think I should speak for Scholz but I think what he is trying to say is it's not just Muslim terrorists. Most Mass Shootings in America are from White males. It's not an opinion.

 

[Scholz]

Sandy Hook was a perfect moment to talk about gun control and mental health issues.

They were talked about. And all fixes were blocked by Republicans in the pocket of the NRA per usual.

 

[mm42]

They were talked about. And all fixes were blocked by Republicans in the pocket of the NRA per usual.

I actually partially agree. Some things need to change, but neither side trusts the other for good reason.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

Flour I don't think I should speak for Scholz but I think what he is trying to say is it's not just Muslim terrorists. Most Mass Shootings in America are from White males. It's not an opinion.

And most town burning s are from Black males? This is where I quit as I am not a racist but try to see how Scholz can categorize Terrorism, is mass murder by the Whites any different from Killing Cops and burning towns and injuring innocent bystanders or blowing the Trade Towers by Muslims?



Hook'em

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

Time to lock this baby up MM!


Hook'em

 

[oldschoolcat]

Time to lock this baby up MM!


Hook'em

I think this discussion is going very well mannered and politely. If you can't take the heat you probably don't belong. (and I like you FB)

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

Funny not one said anything about prayers to the people who died or got hurt...





Hook'em

 

[oldschoolcat]

Scholz, I would agree there are things that probably should be done regarding firearms,

Funny not one said anything about prayers to the people who died or got hurt...





Hook'em

That was my point at the beginning. Way too many people rushing to further the political agenda.

 

[FlourBluffHorn]

I think this discussion is going very well mannered and politely. If you can't take the heat you probably don't belong. (and I like you FB)

I can take the heat old, i can give it too! but I choose to bow out due to I would say more than I should once I get started, so just to be nice old, just to be nice..LOL! and Your one of my faves on here also!




Hook'em

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I think this discussion is going very well mannered and politely. If you can't take the heat you probably don't belong. (and I like you FB)

We all have our beliefs and I think our intentions are and hopefully the good of our American citizens. We just all come from different backgrounds and have our ways. Let's keep it civil and we should be able to have a debate without name calling.

 

[oldschoolcat]

Scholz, I agree that things can be done in this Country to try and keep firearms out of the hands of criminals. Background checks and such are viable ways to do this and I as a right wing nutjob have no objections.

But this is political and you know it. And all the demonizing of your political opponents and pushing the agenda won't keep this from happening. Mental health, religious fanaticism, and prison/gang cultures are the real issues we need to be addressing. Not hillbillies blowing up pigs with AR's and tannerite.

 

[bubba2023]

Scholz, I would agree there are things that probably should be done regarding firearms,
That was my point at the beginning. Way too many people rushing to further the political agenda.

Is your point that this discussion should be on another thread because this thread should be about condolences, or that the discussion shouldn't be had at all as long as people are grieving?

 

[oldschoolcat]

Is your point that this discussion should be on another thread because this thread should be about condolences, or that the discussion shouldn't be had at all as long as people are grieving?

Was referring to the President. Who never skips a chance to slip in an idea for a new law to control his subjects.

 

[swVAHorn]

I have no problem with background checks......and common sense things. I have 4 AR-15s that me and my son love to go target shooting with. It is a sport to me. I do not have them to fight the govt. or really anybody else. It is a sport. My son and I will never go shoot up anyplace. So why take our guns???? NO. Not going to happen. I am a law abiding citizen of the United States and I will not be punished for what these insane, religious nuts, and the like do.

Matter of fact if I was there during an attack I hope I can get to my gun and take the bastard out before he or they kill any innocent people.

I have no problem with checks and making sure bad guys don't get them though. I will even register my guns, just like my vehicles...don't care. I don't care to have to sign it over to someone else if I sell them (or buy them) to show they are not being sent into the wrong hands.

But I am keeping my guns. I think I am about as middle of the road as you can get. I don't think we need tanks, bazookas etc. But if they take the guns...I know it sounds like a bumper sticker but it is true...ONLY BAD PEOPLE WILL HAVE THEM.

 

[swVAHorn]

Was referring to the President. Who never skips a chance to slip in an idea for a new law to control his subjects.

When you say something like this it makes you lose any credibility you have or had.

 

[Belldozer1]

So, back to the radical islamists who committed this heinous crime. I have a question. It appears that male radicals believe that when they leave this earth as one did yesterday that they will receive 72 virgins. Now does that apply to the females too? Because one radical female left this earth yesterday and I am just wondering if she getting what she thought she had coming?

 

[mm42]

So, back to the radical islamists who committed this heinous crime. I have a question. It appears that male radicals believe that when they leave this earth as one did yesterday that they will receive 72 virgins. Now does that apply to the females too? Because one radical female left this earth yesterday and I am just wondering if she getting what she thought she had coming?

Doubt it, or the guy would have gotten someone else to help him. No one wants their wife with 72 horn dogs that are better than he is.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

The problem is not so much with gun control itself. It's how you go about it. What you have to understand is that under the 2nd Amendment (supported by Supreme Court decisions), Americans have a fairly broad right to own firearms. To change that, it's not as simple as Congress passing a bill. What needs to happen is the 2nd Amendment itself needs to be amended.

From a pure legal perspective, it's not really that simple. The 2nd Amendment, just like every other Amendment, is not self-defining. Interpretation is everything. The 2nd Amendment has only been read as protecting an individual right to keep and bear arms since 2008 (for federal enclaves) and 2010 (for states); fifty years ago, jurists across the ideological spectrum scoffed at that notion as an utter absurdity.

That's the state of the law now, but even Heller and McDonald recognize as "presumptively lawful" regulations on ownership far more restrictive than those that most Americans are bound by today. If you're talking about an outright, total ban on individual ownership (which is not going to happen, even if a future Court were to overturn Heller and McDonald), then, yes, given the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment since 2008 (and 2010), a constitutional amendment would presently be required. But no significant numbers of people or politicians are calling for a total ban (or anything close to one). And, the NRA's insistence to the contrary notwithstanding, none of the standard, mainstream proposed legislative gun ownership restrictions would be at risk of running up against recognized constitutional barriers -- unless a future Court accords the 2nd Amendment a substantially more expansive interpretation than the one currently in effect.

(My position on guns is fairly idiosyncratic for someone of my political persuasion, as I enjoy shooting and collecting a wide range of handguns as a hobby and am a CHL holder, and what I'm saying here is not meant as an argument either way on gun control. I'm just pointing out that, legally speaking, the NRA's and other gun rights groups' fairly absolutist positions are just a few among a large number of possible arguments and interpretations -- and they're really not even close to reflective of the present state of constitutional law. Legal advocacy groups on all sides of issues present their views as legal fact because that's just smart political strategy when you're pushing a view that hasn't actually been accepted as law.)

 

[oldschoolcat]

When you say something like this it makes you lose any credibility you have or had.

So my opinion that the President shouldn't have been talking gun control while an active shooting was going on was bad form? I stand by it... there's a time and place, and yesterday wasn't it.

 

[Scholz]

Funny not one said anything about prayers to the people who died or got hurt...
Hook'em

Personally I think it would be better to actually work on solving the problem in lieu of ignoring it, deflecting it and wishing it away. But maybe that's just me.

 

[RealBear]

Help me understand, please?

So, some radical islamists plan another terrorist act like he cowards they are and they murder innocent Americans, at least 14 of them. Now, don't seem to matter how they did it, even though they used guns, they could have used bombs, as they often do.

But, since they pulled this off, again, now, you anti gun boys want the government to come in and take away my rights, an American Citizen, to own an assault rifle which I choose to own under the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America? Now, what did I do to deserve this, please explain it to me, will ya?

Just like after 9-11, now my wife, daughter and grandma have to be frisked, stand in long lines, be treated like criminals, every time they fly on an airplane, by the government, because of the criminal, cowardly acts of these murdering islamist jihadists?

And the answer you think is to disarm more innocent Americans? And you want this government run by this fool president, who is allowing these unwanted illegals to swarm through our borders, criminals, terrorists and all, and is pushing to bring ISIS in with boat loads of refugees from the war torn middle east, and he is gonna take care of me and my family since I don't have a weapon to protect myself any longer? Yeah, uhhuh, you can bet I believe and trust that to happen.

Have you ever considered this is what these terrorists want to happen?

See, these cowards come to my house or my street or my grandchildrens school and try to pull some of that murderous crap against innocents, and I am gonna shoot their ass to hell and back with my weapons of choice, or die trying.

You boys better start getting your thinking cap on right, cause taking more rights away from American citizens because of these murderers isn't the answer. The only thing protecting us from all these fools is the fact we own so many guns as private Americans, and I mean law abiding citizens. That, and the fact we have the protection of the policemen of America who are willing to give their lives so we can live a normal and safe life. Even though, a lot of the socially smart PC folks are trying to dissolve the trust Americans have in our law enforcement folks.

And we will never and must never allow this to happen and be able survive as free people on this earth.

 

[Scholz]

But this is political and you know it. And all the demonizing of your political opponents and pushing the agenda won't keep this from happening. Mental health, religious fanaticism, and prison/gang cultures are the real issues we need to be addressing. Not hillbillies blowing up pigs with AR's and tannerite.

You left out racism. And the right wing playing in the psychic netherworld of racial hatred and phobia every election cycle. When Republicans deploy their Southern Strategy to gin up fear and hate to get votes every national election, there are real victims. Of course this discussion is political.

 

[Scholz]

Is your point that this discussion should be on another thread because this thread should be about condolences, or that the discussion shouldn't be had at all as long as people are grieving?

Probably. That way the discussion never happens because there's a mass shooting more than once a day.

 

[swVAHorn]

So my opinion that the President shouldn't have been talking gun control while an active shooting was going on was bad form? I stand by it... there's a time and place, and yesterday wasn't it.

No not at all. That part I kind of agree with. It is when you say "this president trying to control his subects". I get it. you hate Obama. Cool. But we are not his "subjects". come on man.

I wish to God that we would do away with political parties before it tears this Great Nation apart. I love my Country and I despise partisan politics. It is hurting us all. But I am sure if you (by your post) are GOP then you think the problem is Dems, and the Dems think it is the GOP. Damn I hate it so bad.

 

[Scholz]

Was referring to the President. Who never skips a chance to slip in an idea for a new law to control his subjects.

Just like I said. If Obama came out in favor of oxygen, you'd probably suffocate yourself.

 

[oldschoolcat]

Just like I said. If Obama came out in favor of oxygen, you'd probably suffocate yourself.

He wouldn't come out against it. That's not the way he rolls. He would create the Bureau of Air.....and the media would demonize anyone who was against a new bureau as "anti Breathing".

 

[swVAHorn]

Was referring to the President. Who never skips a chance to slip in an idea for a new law to control his subjects.

I mean think about it. If we care about the environment then you are a "tree hugger". If you like shooting sports you are a "gun nut". I hate that you can't agree with things from all political parties. I would vote for that guy. Now if you agree with anything from the other side it is political suicide for the party you are trying to be elected from.

 

[oldschoolcat]

No not at all. That part I kind of agree with. It is when you say "this president trying to control his subects". I get it. you hate Obama. Cool. But we are not his "subjects". come on man.

I wish to God that we would do away with political parties before it tears this Great Nation apart. I love my Country and I despise partisan politics. It is hurting us all. But I am sure if you (by your post) are GOP then you think the problem is Dems, and the Dems think it is the GOP. Damn I hate it so bad.

Subjects was tongue in cheek. Sorry bout that. I think the problem is Democrats AND Republicans. Term limits MUST happen....

 

[clob94]

Scholtz I really think this comes down to (and this is just my opinion) the fact that the media jumps frantically on every shooting that takes place SO LONG AS it can advance or protect their political agenda. If it somehow hampers their message, they turn a blind eye to it or point out other related or unrelated issues that could be to blame. Example:

There have been FAR more shootings and murders in Chicago over the last few years than ever before. But because Chicago has incredibly tight gun laws, some liberal or progressive media outlets won't cover those because it COULD look as though gun laws don't support their arguments. It's not working in Chicago, so let's not talk about it.
The conservative media won't touch it because if you point out that it's (mostly) black on black crime, THAT can be construed as racism and that just stirs up another argument about poverty, lack of education and white privilege. The reality of it is that in SOME nations gun laws work. In SOME not so much. Mexico has gun laws that are so strict, that if they so much as find an unfired bullet in your vehicle, they can throw you in jail for as long as they please. I know this first hand as years ago I rode into Mexico with my father in his Suburban to meet with a customer of his that was drilling for natural gas just south of Nuevo Laredo. We had been hunting at the ranch and took care to leave everything back at the ranch. We were pulled over on our way back to Texas for a "random" search and they dug around my dad's truck until they found a SINGLE .22 rim fire bullet. My little brother had spilled a box of bullets months before in the truck and failed to pick all of them up. It took us two hours of begging and several hundred dollars in bribes before they allowed us to leave. Yet Mexico, for all its gun laws in like the wild west for the cartels.

Conversely, England has the same sort of strict gun laws, a tad different but still very strict, and it seems to be working very well for them. People hack each other up with knives and machetes from time to time but, it appears to be working for them.

France has some of the most strict gun laws in the world, unfortunately that hindered them in a way that allowed those maniacs to systematically execute dozens of them.

Switzerland has literally a gun in every home. But we don't hear about mass shooting from them. In fact, I can't think of one. So if it's not the guns, then it has to be something else. The culture maybe? I really don't know. Mental health perhaps?

I know the president said that this loon was on the no fly list yet he was able to buy a gun. I must then question one thing: if this guy was on the no fly list, then how was he able to fly to Saudi Arabia, pick up his wife and "child" and legally bring them to the United states? No fly list means "no fly".

I also must include this experience that happened to me at lunch just two hours ago.

I was eating in downtown Austin today with some associates (one whom is English born) and he said to me that because of America's lax gun laws, this tragedy happened.------

I asked him "Ronald, if a dude with a gun kicked in the door here and started shooting, would you be against a citizen shooting him to save your life?" He wouldn't reply and the conversation was ended.