Sumlin killing it in recruiting

[jsto60]

There are teams in the SEC SEC SEC that are perennial losers. See Kentucky, Georgia Tech, Vandy.

Then you have teams that every once in a while step up and maybe challenge for a conf title and still do nothing nationally. See Arky, Ole Miss, Miss St (really they were a huge loser until recently and it is cheating in recruiting that helped them more than SEC ties), South Carolina.

Being in the $EC doesn't help them that much in recruiting. Aggie is just one of those teams.

 

[TexExSpur]

Arkansas is in the SEC, has been longer than Aggy...It's not that big of a draw bro. Kids want to win! To me, the Ags will never be anything more than an Arkansas in the SEC and they are from a tiny state. The Ag's actually opened the door, making it easier to pull kids out to the big boys of LSU, Bama, UGA, etc...

The Draw "was" big initially, it has since fallen off. I mentioned three years ago that the tides would turn in short order. The balance of power never fails to play out. Bama has sucked and rose again, blue blood programs are never down for long.

 

[diadevic]

You mean the barbershop in the locker room isn't having an effect?

 

[littleton tiger]

FYI Georgia Tech is in the ACC. They left big-time football in the 50's if I'm not mistaken. Other than that your point is valid. recruits choose schools not conferences.

 

[bubba2023]

There are teams in the SEC SEC SEC that are perennial losers. See Kentucky, Georgia Tech, Vandy.

Then you have teams that every once in a while step up and maybe challenge for a conf title and still do nothing nationally. See Arky, Ole Miss, Miss St (really they were a huge loser until recently and it is cheating in recruiting that helped them more than SEC ties), South Carolina.

Being in the $EC doesn't help them that much in recruiting. Aggie is just one of those teams.

Kentucky just inked a very solid class. Comparable to what they have been on the field it was a tremendous class. The SEC has an effect. Denying that is ridiculous. How big? That's up for debate.

 

[jsto60]

Kentucky just inked a very solid class. Comparable to what they have been on the field it was a tremendous class. The SEC has an effect. Denying that is ridiculous. How big? That's up for debate.

The $EC has lots of effects.

ATM going there had an initial effect drawing recruits. It also gave a bigger footprint to the Bama's and LSU's of the world. Making that relative and mitigated. You do understand that ATM has always got some recruits. And almost always still been behind the UTs and OUs of the world in recruiting. Thus never winning. Thus never getting sustained amazing recruiting to surpass UT or OU and dominate the BigXII or the SWC. And the same story happens now, just trade UT/OU with Bama/LSU/Georgia/Florida/etc.


Look, honk the $EC horn all you want. You still aren't winning titles. You still aren't winning championships. You are still finishing middle of the pack in this other conference. You are still ATM. You are just playing in a different sandbox. And you still aren't winning in it.


The only thing that can turn College Station around is winning conference titles and winning national titles. And doing it repeatedly. That is never going to happen. Didn't happen in BigXII and won't happen in SEC. Maybe you'd compete for CCs in the MAC, but you wouldn't be in play for NCs.

 

[TexExSpur]

Some play Checkers while others play Chess...There is a methodical approach to one side while the others simply look to load up.

 

[Mister Moses]

The way it looks to me, both coaches need to win this year. I see you both in the same boat. A&M is in a far better conference, so if they do start winning they are in a better position. 1939 so what? This is 2016 you guys predict the future. I'm impressed. Texas recruiting is not a problem for UT. Mack was the recruiting King, now he's the court jester to big ego fans. You think Charlie would've run off Ricky Williams? That's ridiculous of course not. That smokescreen is lifted now. Same recruits of the supposedly dirty teams. Dirty according to you. You're living in a bubble with this fandom nonsense.

 

[TexExSpur]

Nah, Mack spiraled down the drain due to poor player evaluation and it all started post GD as the OC. Quit pissing in the pool, sooner.


Texas is well, Texas... The last 2 recruiting classes came off 6-7 and 5-7 seasons, lol. The flagship will always be a prime landing spot.

 

[Maverick1971]

Nah, Mack spiraled down the drain due to poor player evaluation and it all started post GD as the OC. Quit pissing in the pool, sooner.


Texas is well, Texas... The last 2 recruiting classes came off 6-7 and 5-7 seasons, lol. The flagship will always be a prime landing spot.

Maybe your recruiting success is simply because you were able to offer immediate playing time at a number of key positions.

 

[TexExSpur]

Maybe your recruiting success is simply because you were able to offer immediate playing time at a number of key positions.

It doesn't hurt, but I call BS if you paid attention to this last class......It's a key to flipping the roster and he has done that. Now it's time to start putting some W's on the board. This next haul will be 15-18 kids and likely one of the highest average ranks in value and guess what, that early PT is no longer a pitch. Best man plays!


The 2016 numbers at position are killer and he stacked them deep on the OL and DL!

 

[Maverick1971]

It doesn't hurt, but I call BS if you paid attention to this last class......It's a key to flipping the roster and he has done that. Now it's time to start putting some W's on the board. This next haul will be 15-18 kids and likely one of the highest average ranks in value and guess what, that early PT is no longer a pitch. Best man plays!


The 2016 numbers at position are killer and he stacked them deep on the OL and DL!

No doubt it looks good on paper. You should expect significant improvement. If not then the job was clearly to big for Strong as many have suspected.

 

[TexExSpur]

No doubt it looks good on paper. You should expect significant improvement. If not then the job was clearly to big for Strong as many have suspected.

Blowhards do what they do best. He has to cure cancer!

 

[jsto60]

No doubt it looks good on paper. You should expect significant improvement. If not then the job was clearly to big for Strong as many have suspected.

How about your own guy, you know the man this thread was titled about?

Is Sumlin in over his head??? As many predicted following the coattails of Briles and minimal HC experience.



At least Strong has NCs as a coordinator and success building a program and turning it around at UL. What has Sumlin ever done? Other than step in and enjoy what another guy builds before he wrecks it.
Did he even win even a CC in his years at UH? (I think he lost both CC games he took the team to when his teams were the heavy favorite in those games....and his other two yrs at UH were very disappointing, one was a losing season)
Has he ever been on a staff that won an NC?
How overpaid is he?


Are you really happy with the sad recruiting class he is compiling this year?

 

[BringBackRoyal]

The way it looks to me, both coaches need to win this year. I see you both in the same boat. A&M is in a far better conference, so if they do start winning they are in a better position. 1939 so what? This is 2016 you guys predict the future. I'm impressed. Texas recruiting is not a problem for UT. Mack was the recruiting King, now he's the court jester to big ego fans. You think Charlie would've run off Ricky Williams? That's ridiculous of course not. That smokescreen is lifted now. Same recruits of the supposedly dirty teams. Dirty according to you. You're living in a bubble with this fandom nonsense.

Uh oh, Moses broke the retard meter again.

 

[Longyac]

The way it looks to me, both coaches need to win this year. I see you both in the same boat. A&M is in a far better conference, so if they do start winning they are in a better position. 1939 so what? This is 2016 you guys predict the future. I'm impressed. Texas recruiting is not a problem for UT. Mack was the recruiting King, now he's the court jester to big ego fans. You think Charlie would've run off Ricky Williams? That's ridiculous of course not. That smokescreen is lifted now. Same recruits of the supposedly dirty teams. Dirty according to you. You're living in a bubble with this fandom nonsense.

Is there a point that I'm supposed to understand in all that gibberish?

 

[swVAHorn]

Is there a point that I'm supposed to understand in all that gibberish?

Gibberish is the Official Language of ou fans....They just throw a bunch of words together and think it makes them look smart....doesn't work.

 

[Maverick1971]

How about your own guy, you know the man this thread was titled about?

Is Sumlin in over his head??? As many predicted following the coattails of Briles and minimal HC experience.



At least Strong has NCs as a coordinator and success building a program and turning it around at UL. What has Sumlin ever done? Other than step in and enjoy what another guy builds before he wrecks it.
Did he even win even a CC in his years at UH? (I think he lost both CC games he took the team to when his teams were the heavy favorite in those games....and his other two yrs at UH were very disappointing, one was a losing season)
Has he ever been on a staff that won an NC?
How overpaid is he?


Are you really happy with the sad recruiting class he is compiling this year?

I think there are a lot of questions about Sumlin and yes it is possible the job it too big for him. I think he was a solid coordinator for OU and the offenses were very prolific and produced multiple Heisman winners. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is what he can do now and there are clearly still questions.

Strong is in year 3. If it makes you feel better that he won NC's as a coordinator or won at Louisville then great. I would be more concerned about what he's done in Austin. Everybody is getting excited that he had the #12 ranked class last year and #7 ranked class this year (with the benefit of the Baylor scandal refugees). Let's see if he can get it done on the field. Personally I think his HC success at Louisville was the product of having a solid NFL caliber QB in a mid major conference.

 

[TexExSpur]

I think there are a lot of questions about Sumlin and yes it is possible the job it too big for him. I think he was a solid coordinator for OU and the offenses were very prolific and produced multiple Heisman winners. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is what he can do now and there are clearly still questions.

Strong is in year 3. If it makes you feel better that he won NC's as a coordinator or won at Louisville then great. I would be more concerned about what he's done in Austin. Everybody is getting excited that he had the #12 ranked class last year and #7 ranked class this year (with the benefit of the Baylor scandal refugees). Let's see if he can get it done on the field. Personally I think his HC success at Louisville was the product of having a solid NFL caliber QB in a mid major conference.

Lol, most coaches success has come at the hands of phenomenal QB play.... Outside of Saban, whom uses a game manager quite well. You have to have a QB! Strong has not had a QB, hopefully.... Shane is the guy!

 

[Longyac]

I think there are a lot of questions about Sumlin and yes it is possible the job it too big for him. I think he was a solid coordinator for OU and the offenses were very prolific and produced multiple Heisman winners. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is what he can do now and there are clearly still questions.

Strong is in year 3. If it makes you feel better that he won NC's as a coordinator or won at Louisville then great. I would be more concerned about what he's done in Austin. Everybody is getting excited that he had the #12 ranked class last year and #7 ranked class this year (with the benefit of the Baylor scandal refugees). Let's see if he can get it done on the field. Personally I think his HC success at Louisville was the product of having a solid NFL caliber QB in a mid major conference.

I'll take Case Keenum for $5mil a year, guaranteed, Alex. Then JFF at A&M.

Pretty sure Bridgewater had a little help since he was just 1 of 14 NFL draft picks from UL in '14 and '15.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=L&collegeName=Louisville&abbrFlag=0&type=school
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/track...#dt-tabs:dt-by-college/dt-by-college-input:59

 

[TexExSpur]

Drives me nuts watching folks talk football when they simply don't get it...

 

[pooch11]

Lol, most coaches success has come at the hands of phenomenal QB play.... Outside of Saban, whom uses a game manager quite well. You have to have a QB! Strong has not had a QB, hopefully.... Shane is the guy!

your biggest issue last season was your defense. Im not sure how much better its going to be this year, its really going to depend on the development of your dline specifically your d tackles. Had you been able to stop anyone last year you may have won 6 or 7 games. You had a top 10 rushing offense yet could not control time of possession. That's an issue with your defense. I agree with your overall premise regarding a QB but that really wasn't the biggest issue last year. I like Buechelle, but I don't expect him to be significantly better as a freshman then what you ran out there last year.

 

[Maverick1971]

Has there ever been a coach who took over a historically good program, had losing records his first 2 years, and went on to win anything significant? I cant think of any in the past 30 years. Strong path to this point is remarkably similar to Rich Rodriguez.

 

[TexExSpur]

Historically good, that's fun terminology to use (at least we have that going for us). Had Texas maintained OL depth as well as DL depth (Mack struck out on DT's late) to go along with QB depth, Strong wouldn't have had the early struggles. Mack failed with player evaluation in the end and had multiple QB's transfer out before Strong ever stepped foot on the Forty. The Defense was still fairly loaded when Strong arrived and had a descent year in 2014. The offense was in shambles and needed a complete overhaul...it takes several years to complete said task. Strong was left with Ash (concussion retirement), Swoopes and Freshman Heard in year 1. Talk about a dumpster-fire at QB.

Talk about winning with good QB play, Mack Brown is a prime example.

 

[TexExSpur]

your biggest issue last season was your defense. Im not sure how much better its going to be this year, its really going to depend on the development of your dline specifically your d tackles. Had you been able to stop anyone last year you may have won 6 or 7 games. You had a top 10 rushing offense yet could not control time of possession. That's an issue with your defense. I agree with your overall premise regarding a QB but that really wasn't the biggest issue last year. I like Buechelle, but I don't expect him to be significantly better as a freshman then what you ran out there last year.

Youth on defense, it was what it was. I think they'll be considerably better in 2016 and several of those big incoming freshmen DT's will see time in the rotation, they'll be fresh and have the LB depth they didn't have last year with one of the best young backfields in the country.

...and yes, better QB play and they win more than 6 in 2014, better QB play and a more mature defense and they win 7-8 in 2015.

All in the past.

 

[pooch11]

Youth on defense, it was what it was. I think they'll be considerably better in 2016 and several of those big incoming freshmen DT's will see time in the rotation, they'll be fresh and have the LB depth they didn't have last year with one of the best young backfields in the country.

...and yes, better QB play and they win more than 6 in 2014, better QB play and a more mature defense and they win 7-8 in 2015.

All in the past.

My issue regarding the youth is that you lost 4 of your starting front 7 in Jackson, Ridgeway, Shiro and Jenkins. You are asking a lot of those freshmen to step in and fill those voids. Its definitely possible as you have brought in some talented kids.

 

[TexExSpur]

This is what is left of Mack....and what Charlie has to work with!

Upperclassmen:

Seniors (12): 1 QB, 2 WR, 1, TE, 1 OL, 2 DE, 1 DT, 1 LB, 1 CB and 2 Safety’s.

Swoopes, QB, 2013, 4 star composite

Templin, WR, Walk-on, no ranking

Warrick, WR, 2013, 4 star composite

Bluiett, TE, 2012, 3 star composite

Perkins, OL, 2013, 4 star composite

Cottrell, DE, 2012, 3 star composite

Vasser, DE, 2014, JUCO Strong recruit

Boyette, DT, 2012, 4 star composite

Cole, LB, 2012, 4 star composite

Evans, CB, 2011, 4 star composite

Haines, S, Walk-on, no ranking

Vaccaro, S, 2012, 3 star composite



Juniors (14): 0 QB, 1 RB, 5 WR, 2 TE, 2 OL, 1 DE, 1 DT, 1 CB and 1 Safety.

D. Foreman, RB, 2014, 3 star composite

Bernard, WR, 2014, 3 star composite

A.Foreman, WR, 2014, 4 star composite

Joe, WR, 2014, 4 star composite

Leonard, WR, 2014, 3 star composite

Oliver, WR, 2013, 4 star composite

Beck, TE, 2014, 3 star composite

Whiteley, TE, 2014, 3 star composite

Hodges, OL, 2015, 3 star JUCO Strong recruit

Nickelson, OL, 2015, 2 star JUCO Strong recruit

Hughes, DE, 2013, 3 star composite

Ford, DT, 2014, 4 star composite Strong recruit

Davis, CB, 2013, 4 star composite

Hall, S, 2014, 3 star composite

Of the 26 Seniors and Juniors currently on the roster, Strong is responsible for bringing in 4. So, 22 kids that committed to Mack plus a few Sophomores are all that remain in this roster flip. Also, not all of these kids will be on the roster come Fall, you can guarantee it.

 

[oldhorn2]

when you talk of advantages for the secsecsec, I admit I hadn't considered this......


https://t.co/TtyHM8bKAd

 

[TexExSpur]

My issue regarding the youth is that you lost 4 of your starting front 7 in Jackson, Ridgeway, Shiro and Jenkins. You are asking a lot of those freshmen to step in and fill those voids. Its definitely possible as you have brought in some talented kids.

Shiro Davis played in 11 games and started the first 4 but he wasn't an every game starter, he was passed up by Hughes and Omenihu with newcomers Fitzgerald and Roach knocking on the door, he is not a loss.
.
Ridgeway (played in 11 games and started the last 8 he was in) was a big body with a slow motor and the biggest loss based on strength, Jackson (played in 11 games with 5 starts) and is easily replaced with Ford/Boyette with one of them likely filling the Ridgeway roll (Ponna Ford) and being relived by, Nelson, DCG, Daniels, Elliot, Southall and Wilbon.

Peter Jenkins started in every game he played in (11), but he isn't a game changer, he brought some substance and flash. Cole, Wheeler, Freeman, Hager, Townsend, Boyd, McCulloch or Fowler fill that hole....


Ridgeway/Jackson replaced by---- Poona played in all 12 games and started in 5, Paul Boyette played in all 12 games and started in 6. Chris Nelson played in 8 games.

Davis replaced by------ Charlies Omenihu played in all 12 games, Bryce Cottrell played in all 12 games and started the last 8.

Jenkins replaced by-----Timothy Cole played in 11 games and started 3. Anthony Wheeler played in all 12 games and started 2, Edwin Freeman played in 6 games and Breckyn Hager played in 9 games.

 

[jsto60]

I think there are a lot of questions about Sumlin and yes it is possible the job it too big for him. I think he was a solid coordinator for OU and the offenses were very prolific and produced multiple Heisman winners. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is what he can do now and there are clearly still questions.

Strong is in year 3. If it makes you feel better that he won NC's as a coordinator or won at Louisville then great. I would be more concerned about what he's done in Austin. Everybody is getting excited that he had the #12 ranked class last year and #7 ranked class this year (with the benefit of the Baylor scandal refugees). Let's see if he can get it done on the field. Personally I think his HC success at Louisville was the product of having a solid NFL caliber QB in a mid major conference.

Spin, spin, spin. And mostly deflection.


I asked questions about Sumlin. And specifically his time at UH. You (erroneously) touched only on a bright spot of his time at OU. And then gave a paragraph about Charlie Strong. Good talk.



To be fair to you and respond to your Strong comments. I do feel better about a coach who has a proven winning record. Winning national titles as DC and building up the only other program he coached in a similar fashion to what he is doing now. (hell you talked about Sumlin having multiple heisman winner as OC at OU as if that made you feel better about him AND it wasn't even factual). White won a Heisman for OU in 03. Bradford in 08. Sumlin was CoOC/WR coach at OU in 06-07 and a ST/TE coach from 03-05.

 

[diadevic]

your biggest issue last season was your defense. Im not sure how much better its going to be this year, its really going to depend on the development of your dline specifically your d tackles. Had you been able to stop anyone last year you may have won 6 or 7 games. You had a top 10 rushing offense yet could not control time of possession. That's an issue with your defense. I agree with your overall premise regarding a QB but that really wasn't the biggest issue last year. I like Buechelle, but I don't expect him to be significantly better as a freshman then what you ran out there last year.

Pooch I think reading the stat sheet can be misleading. UT rushed for a ton of yards the last couple of games, but the rushing game wasn't consistent throughout the year, and the passing game was high school level. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who watched any game could figure out in less than a quarter that the single biggest issue was QB. I like the direction this ship is headed, but I sure would hate to have my future as a coach depend upon a true freshman being ready. I certainly wouldn't hang my future on Swoopes. And you do raise a very big concern on the D Tackles - again, it looks like the problem is being resolved, but it may be a year or two to see it with so many talented frosh coming in. Strong needs to squeeze out at least 8 wins to keep the wolves away, and then look for a BIG 2017.

 

[jsto60]

Back to your comments on Strong.

I am not 100% sold that he is the best coach in the world. What I like about him is his toughness and how he is instilling it to the players.


It is not stealing a few BU kids. Or just the last recruiting class at all that has me giddy. I'm not even giddy yet. What I like is the changes on the field I saw from year 1 to year 2. And the changes I anticipate in year 3 (and this isn't Aggie dreamworld we are gonna win the next 6 NCs thanks to Manziel make believe annual preseason BS hype giddy). The single biggest thing I am happy about is him finally admitting hiring Watson was a mistake as OC and moving on to our new OC. And don't take that as all positive. I ding him for not doing it right away. I was very vocal here about his questionable hires from day 1. And wanted them gone before year 2 started.

But unlike ATM. I see positive steps forward. ATM is only slinking backwards. And that is a trend that Sumlin has had throughout his career. Meanwhile Strongs trend is very different.

 

[pooch11]

Shiro Davis played in 11 games and started the first 4 but he wasn't an every game starter, he was passed up by Hughes and Omenihu with newcomers Fitzgerald and Roach knocking on the door, he is not a loss.
.
Ridgeway (played in 11 games and started the last 8 he was in) was a big body with a slow motor and the biggest loss based on strength, Jackson (played in 11 games with 5 starts) and is easily replaced with Ford/Boyette with one of them likely filling the Ridgeway roll (Ponna Ford) and being relived by, Nelson, DCG, Daniels, Elliot, Southall and Wilbon.

Peter Jenkins started in every game he played in (11), but he isn't a game changer, he brought some substance and flash. Cole, Wheeler, Freeman, Hager, Townsend, Boyd, McCulloch or Fowler fill that hole....


Ridgeway/Jackson replaced by---- Poona played in all 12 games and started in 5, Paul Boyette played in all 12 games and started in 6. Chris Nelson played in 8 games.

Davis replaced by------ Charlies Omenihu played in all 12 games, Bryce Cottrell played in all 12 games and started the last 8.

Jenkins replaced by-----Timothy Cole played in 11 games and started 3. Anthony Wheeler played in all 12 games and started 2, Edwin Freeman played in 6 games and Breckyn Hager played in 9 games.

I pretty much disagree with your entire assessment here, I think you are really minimizing the contributions of the players you lost and projecting for true freshmen and potential replacements who couldn't beat out the starters last season to step right in, I think that's dangerous, its possible, but I just don't agree.

 

[pooch11]

Back to your comments on Strong.

What I like is the changes on the field I saw from year 1 to year 2.

QUOTE]

Not to call you out but what could you possibly have liked from year 2 that you didn't see in year 1? you were worse in almost every aspect of the game in year 2 aside from running the ball.

 

[TexExSpur]

I pretty much disagree with your entire assessment here, I think you are really minimizing the contributions of the players you lost and projecting for true freshmen and potential replacements who couldn't beat out the starters last season to step right in, I think that's dangerous, its possible, but I just don't agree.

Shiro Davis is not a loss he lost the starting role after 4 games, Jackson (started the first 3 games of the year as well as KU and WV, he is not a huge loss and only started 5 games) we needed him last year for depth, Jenkins was a respectable player but we have the talent to fill the role. Who didn't beat out who? The youth gradually took over last year. Ponna is a strong ass powder keg that can take over where Ridgeway started left off. I'm not projecting a damn thing, they proved it on the field.

I didn't figure you would agree and the NFL draft pick had a difficult time establishing himself as a starter.


....and yes we will be better on defense in 2016 unlike the team that gave up 30 points a game and 219 ypg on the ground in 2015... Not think, they will be better. Another bold prediction, the offense will help carry the defense early on. For the past six years, the QB position at Texas has been part of the problem, not part of the solution.