Sumlin killing it in recruiting

[Longyac]

What's interesting is the rankings of Mack's last 4 classes according to Rivals:
2010 #3
2011 #3
2012 #2
2013 #24

I don't doubt that Mack pretty much retired on active duty but those are some pretty good classes on paper. That's why I'm tapping the brakes on Strong since the only thing he's really accomplished in Austin is a #12 and #7 class. These rankings are a crapshoot until you see if they are developed.

2010- Hicks was the only one drafted
2011- Quandary Diggs and Mykkele Thompson only ones drafted
2012- Malcom Brown and Ridgeway only ones drafted
2013- Geoff Swaim only one drafted(JUCO) and Kent Perkins the only NFL prospect

Only offensive draft pick was a JUCO, that Harsin brought in, and he went in the 7th round as a blocking TE.

That and that freshmen won 10 starting spots by the end of last season tells all you need to know about Mack's classes and recruiting services rankings.

Strong's 28th ranked 2011 class at UL produced 9 draft picks.

 

[Longyac]

Again, fan boys within the base are what folks love to use as their go to. You're not in a discussion with the masses so ease up with the broad brush. I've never been a star gazer and never will be! Mack's career fell apart when he fired his OC and yes there are a ton of fans that hate the bubble screen, guess what...it's still part of the game! Greg Davis was fired to take the heat off Mack' ass.


Some folks such as yourself need visual confirmation, it's understandable.

I don't think that was from Davis' offensive abilities but I do buy the theory that GDGD was the only who could keep Mack in his lane and tell Mack that Mack was wrong when Mack was wrong. And that once that check point was gone Mack went completely off the track.

 

[Longyac]

I certainly would not pretend to be on the inside of your program. But I sure don't remember any sort of groundswell of support for Greg Davis. Seems like most had been wanting him gone a lot earlier. The 2010 season was the perfect opportunity to make the move. Who would have ever thought that Harsin would not work out. And then Applewhite turned out to be a huge disappointment, seemingly incapable of rising above a position coach role. I always thought Davis was good at getting the offense to produce but his goodwill among fans was irreparably damaged by the team's offensive performance against OU from 2000-2004. He did a great job of adapting the offense to let Vince Young be himself. He also did a great job with McCoy.

Harsin couldn't take dealing with Mack and moved on.

Major is doing just fine as Tom Herman's OC. Mack's meddling was the issue for Major, as OC, at Texas.

GDGD spent 2.5 years trying to make VY into a prototypical drop back passer before Mack intervened and they put in VY's HS' offense and reeled off 20 straight wins. There were 9 future NFLers starting on the 2004 offense that got blanked by OU.

 

[TexExSpur]

I don't think that was from Davis' offensive abilities but I do buy the theory that GDGD was the only who could keep Mack in his lane and tell Mack that Mack was wrong when Mack was wrong. And that once that check point was gone Mack went completely off the track.

Very true "From a critical perspective, the Greg Davis as superb QB coach mythology marches on. He's above average. No more, no less. Applewhite and McCoy were coaching clinic nerds who spent their youth drawing plays on their Saved By The Bell Trapper Keeper and Vince Young finally thrived when Davis relented and installed his high school offense.", but like you said...There was something there to keep Mack in line as well.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

What's interesting is the rankings of Mack's last 4 classes according to Rivals:
2010 #3
2011 #3
2012 #2
2013 #24

I don't doubt that Mack pretty much retired on active duty but those are some pretty good classes on paper. That's why I'm tapping the brakes on Strong since the only thing he's really accomplished in Austin is a #12 and #7 class. These rankings are a crapshoot until you see if they are developed.

Don't forget the 20th-ranked 2014 class. That belongs to Mack much more than it does Strong, who was hired with four weeks left until NSD.

Setting aside the fact that Mack and most his staff had basically stopped putting any effort into evaluating recruits by 2009 (the offensive staff comprehensively started mailing it in the earliest -- just look at the 2008 class), what's interesting to me is the fact that aggy and Sooner fans love to mention the recruiting rankings of Mack's final classes but never include the fact that of the 90 players we signed from 2010-13, 45 have left the program before finishing their eligibility (we might yet see one or two more defections from what's left of the 2013 class), and a healthy majority of those 45 left the program within just two seasons or less. In fact, seven of the nine early departures in the 15-man 2013 class left within one season. And it wasn't the least-heralded players leaving: 31 of these 45 early departures were 4- and 5-star players, but only two of those 45 were players who left early for the NFL.

Charlie did not inherit this mythical deep and talented roster that aggy and Sooner fans so often insist that he did. (Of course, anyone with two functioning eyeballs should be able to see that.)

 

[jsto60]

I'm not. I want to be, but I'm not.

Charlie Strong is a witch of a recruiter, he runs a tight program, players love playing for him and will run through a brick wall for him.

However

His original coaching staff was crap especially his offensive staff.
His game time organization is lacking, and worse his game management is almost Keystone Cops level.

I love the guy and I want him to succeed, but he needs to win, I give him two years, if over the next 2 months we are still less than 10 wins, he needs to go.

I am with you. The way I see it, is that the team should win 8 or 9 games.

The fan in me, see's a best case scenario where we shock people and we do get back in the national conversation as "Texas is making its way back" with 10 or more wins.

Neither are a guarantee. Anything less than 8 wins, and the seat needs to get real hot.

 

[Longyac]

Don't forget the 20th-ranked 2014 class. That belongs to Mack much more than it does Strong, who was hired with four weeks left until NSD.

5 of the 23 from '14 are already gone. Another 4-6 are recruited over candidates.

 

[TexExSpur]

5 of the 23 from '14 are already gone. Another 4-6 are recruited over candidates.

Roberson, Catalon, Roberts, Hampton and who else? that's 4 of 22 so 18 remain with attrition coming.

 

[Longyac]

Shorter but that was medical.

 

[horn01]

[It's actually halfway impressive the defense held up that well with the strain the offense consistently put on them. Considering the vast amount of true freshman contribution, and talent coming in, it's easy to be optimistic for the defense.[/QUOTE]

This is way too often overlooked. Not that our defense was good, because it wasn't, but they were put in terrible positions by our offense over and over. Its hard not to give up big numbers when you are on the field 45 minutes a game.

 

[jsto60]

Noticed today that Sam Houston St RB Jalen Overstreet was not drafted in NFL supplemental draft. Best of luck to him.

Also saw where Ark St WR Kendall Sanders ran a 4.33

 

[fookA&M]

Sumlin's gone in less than 3 years. Book it.

 

[Longyac]

Did you know that SEC West teams not named A&M took 13 of the top 50 players in Texas for 2016? A&M got 6. Texas took 14.

 

[TexExSpur]

Did you know that SEC West teams not named A&M took 13 of the top 50 players in Texas for 2016? A&M got 6. Texas took 14.

That door they opened was debated before hand, they figured it would be all the glory to Aggy....But.

 

[Longyac]

smtx65's graph for 2016 top 50.

 

[oldhorn2]

Did you know that SEC West teams not named A&M took 13 of the top 50 players in Texas for 2016? A&M got 6. Texas took 14.

Victory aTm!!!....dont you know that ANY accomplishment by the secsecsec automatically becomes eligible for aTm lore?...Hell, it is probably already chisled on the "glory wall" at Kyle field.....since they blew it up do they still call it Kyle field?

 

[jsto60]

Sumlin won 10+ games 2x at Houston. He went 12-1 his last year, his best season which would refute the earlier remark that he gets worse as his tenure progresses. And the assertion that a coach is winning with the prior coach's players in year 4 is absurd. Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship. For years you guys grew weary of hearing the same criticism of Mack Brown (who didn't win a CC until year 22 and only 2 in 30 years as a HC).

Look at all 4 years.

And in that best year, with a 6th year SR QB......did he even win a CC? Has he ever won ONE?


And allow me to point out yet again....deflect, Mack Brown, deflect some more, dodge the pertinent questions., point out one slanted highlight and spin!!!

Mack Brown won a National Title, Sumlin hasn't even won a Division.

 

[Scholz]

Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship.

OK. Your HC is a drunk who's never won jack sh*t in his entire career. Zero skins on the wall even after Briles left him a stacked team at UH in a "lesser" conference.

Mack Brown won a national title btw and will be a HOF coach. You aren't allowed to use Stumblin and Brown in the same sentence together. Just an FYI.

 

[jsto60]

OK. Your HC is a drunk who's never won jack sh*t in his entire career. Zero skins on the wall even after Briles left him a stacked team at UH in a "lesser" conference.

Mack Brown won a national title btw and will be a HOF coach. You aren't allowed to use Stumblin and Brown in the same sentence together. Just an FYI.

No way.

Comparing Mack Browns accomplishments to Kevin Sumlins lack of accomplishments, is a totally winnable argument.

Mack Brown accomplished more in his time at UT than ATM has in their entire history. There are charts detailing this. He also dominated Aggie on the field and off it. And we fired that guy. Meanwhile they are still sucking Sumlin off for doing nothing.

The shocking thing, is that this is the defense Aggie went to on his own in this thread.

 

[Scholz]

Truth. They would've already renamed their football stadium after him had Brown been their coach.

 

[jsto60]

Aggie is really enriching this thread with some awesome stupidity. I'm getting a good chuckle out of it.


Deflecting to Mack Brown. Hilarious.

To defend Sumlin they bring up his best season. Which was like a decade ago. And happened to be at UH (not ATM) and still the guy couldn't cash in even a CC that year in whatever their weak conf was called back then.

Color me impressed mavrick, you sold me. Where can I buy Sumlin stock? At Specs liquor store?

 

[jsto60]

Truth. They would've already renamed their football stadium after him had Brown been their coach.

To be fair, I think they tried to claim some of Macks accomplishments as their own on the side of their stadium.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

LOL. That didn't take long.

 

[Maverick1971]

OK. Your HC is a drunk who's never won jack sh*t in his entire career. Zero skins on the wall even after Briles left him a stacked team at UH in a "lesser" conference.

Mack Brown won a national title btw and will be a HOF coach. You aren't allowed to use Stumblin and Brown in the same sentence together. Just an FYI.

Sorry but the facts are what they are. Sumlin just completed year 8 as a head coach. Mack Brown won his first conference title in year 22. If you would prefer that we wait until Kevin Sumlin has 30 years as a head coach to compare the 2 then OK.

Maybe you don't recall the endless grief Mack Brown was getting from UT fans for years when he couldn't beat OU. If you don't think its a valid comparison, fine. I think it is.

 

[TexExSpur]

There are zero similarities between Brown and Sumlin, it's premature to even attempt to compare the 2.

Mack coached for 29 years as a HC, Tulane, UNC and the final 15 at Texas where he found most of his success. Mack was hired in 98 and won his fist South division title in '99. He won 6 South Division titles, 2 Big 12 titles and 1 National championship with an overall record of 238-117-1 and 21 Bowls appearances going 13-8... Mack had twelve 10 win or more seasons with twenty seasons at 8 wins or more.

Sumlin has been a HC for 8 years with limited success thus far in a weak C-USA where he won 2 West titles, O conference titles before jumping ship for TAMU where he has had 1 great season in his first season as the HC, 0 division titles and 0 conference titles with an overall record of 71-33 with 6 bowl appearances in 8 years going 4-2 in those games. Sumlin has a SEC conference record of 17-15 beating 4 scrubs a year based on how their seasons finished or being FBS to achieve an overall record of 36-16 while coaching in the SEC. Sumlin has had three 10 win or more seasons with seven at 8 or more. He's already sitting on the hot seat in Aggieland and you wan't to compare him to Mack Brown?

You would be a bloomin' idiot to attempt to compare the 2.


Try comparing Sumlin to a guy like Dabo Swinney 75-27, 5-4 in bowls, 2 ACC titles, 4 ACC Atlantic titles! Both have coached for 8 years.


Hell, Charlie Strong has 2 Big East Championships with two 10 plus win season in 6 years as a HC going 48/29 overall and 3/2 in bowl games for teams he coached for the entire year. Sumlin behind in titles?


What's funny is Tony Levine won the ticket City bowl with those Briles recruits he left for Kevin the year Sumlin left with 12 wins before going...5-7, 8-5 and 7-5 in the following three seasons with what Sumlin left him in a lesser conference than Sumlin coached in as they switched to the American.

 

[Scholz]

Sorry but the facts are what they are. Sumlin just completed year 8 as a head coach. Mack Brown won his first conference title in year 22. If you would prefer that we wait until Kevin Sumlin has 30 years as a head coach to compare the 2 then OK.

Yes they are. Drunklin's never won a damn thing. And he won't ever. He probably won't be alive in 20 years the way he boozes btw.

 

[Maverick1971]

There are zero similarities between Brown and Sumlin, it's premature to even attempt to compare the 2.

Mack coached for 29 years as a HC, Tulane, UNC and the final 15 at Texas where he found most of his success. Mack was hired in 98 and won his fist South division title in '99. He won 6 South Division titles, 2 Big 12 titles and 1 National championship with an overall record of 238-117-1 and 21 Bowls appearances going 13-8... Mack had twelve 10 win or more seasons with twenty seasons at 8 wins or more.

Sumlin has been a HC for 8 years with limited success thus far in a weak C-USA where he won 2 West titles, O conference titles before jumping ship for TAMU where he has had 1 great season in his first season as the HC, 0 division titles and 0 conference titles with an overall record of 71-33 with 6 bowl appearances in 8 years going 4-2 in those games. Sumlin has a SEC conference record of 17-15 beating 4 scrubs a year based on how their seasons finished or being FBS to achieve an overall record of 36-16 while coaching in the SEC. Sumlin has had three 10 win or more seasons with seven at 8 or more. He's already sitting on the hot seat in Aggieland and you wan't to compare him to Mack Brown?

You would be a bloomin' idiot to attempt to compare the 2.


Try comparing Sumlin to a guy like Dabo Swinney 75-27, 5-4 in bowls, 2 ACC titles, 4 ACC Atlantic titles! Both have coached for 8 years.


Hell, Charlie Strong has 2 Big East Championships with two 10 plus win season in 6 years as a HC going 48/29 overall and 3/2 in bowl games for teams he coached for the entire year. Sumlin behind in titles?


What's funny is Tony Levine won the ticket City bowl with those Briles recruits he left for Kevin the year Sumlin left with 12 wins before going...5-7, 8-5 and 7-5 in the following three seasons with what Sumlin left him in a lesser conference than Sumlin coached in as they switched to the American.

I guess its time to stop all this nonsense about Tom Herman being the next big thing. He's just living off Tony Levine's recruits.

 

[Scholz]

Tom Herman has been a HC 1 year and has 1 conference title. Don't mention his name with your drunk loser either.

 

[TexExSpur]

I guess its time to stop all this nonsense about Tom Herman being the next big thing. He's just living off Tony Levine's recruits.

I haven't been high on him and still think he has a ton to prove... Herman has potential, but he's coaching in the American... So, if you want to talk about your coach, lets do it. I didn't bring up Herman nor do I look for him to be at my alma mater next year where he once worked.

Aggy loves to deflect, needless to say your coach still hasn't done shit and Herman won a conference title in his first season.

 

[Maverick1971]

I haven't been high on him and still think he has a ton to prove... Herman has potential, but he's coaching in the American... So, if you want to talk about your coach, lets do it. I didn't bring up Herman nor do I look for him to be at my alma mater next year where he once worked.

Aggy loves to deflect

OK. I'll talk about my coach by reposting what I said at the end earlier. Heaven forbid anyone bring up an analogy or comparison. I mean that never happens in a sports conversation and apparently is now simply "deflection":
Sumlin won 10+ games 2x at Houston. He went 12-1 his last year, his best season which would refute the earlier remark that he gets worse as his tenure progresses. And the assertion that a coach is winning with the prior coach's players in year 4 is absurd. Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship.

 

[Scholz]

Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship.

I did that and then you got all butthurt and started deflecting to Mack Brown and Tom Herman, both of which have accomplished more than your guy ever will.

 

[Maverick1971]

I did that and then you got all butthurt and started deflecting to Mack Brown and Tom Herman, both of which have accomplished more than your guy ever will.

yes, and again in your world nobody ever brings up other members of a profession in an ongoing discussion. You never do that right?
That's what I thought. So that being said here's a little more deflection for you. You run your mouth constantly about Sumlin being a "loser". Not sure how you define that. But the way I define it is by wins and losses, specifically below .500 which your head coach has now been for 2 years. So, nothing derogatory but by most any sane person's definition he is presently....a loser. Doesn't mean he's condemned to be one forever but he is right now. Feel free to spin, deflect or any other hateful nonsense you spew as usual.

 

[TexExSpur]

OK. I'll talk about my coach by reposting what I said at the end earlier. Heaven forbid anyone bring up an analogy or comparison. I mean that never happens in a sports conversation and apparently is now simply "deflection":
Sumlin won 10+ games 2x at Houston. He went 12-1 his last year, his best season which would refute the earlier remark that he gets worse as his tenure progresses. And the assertion that a coach is winning with the prior coach's players in year 4 is absurd. Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship.

Really, look it up... Who was starting for UofH and what classes were they a part of. Those little schools don't lose kids to attrition and the NFL like the big boys.

Shit ton of Seniors/5th year seniors on this 2 deep...

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools.../depth_chart_non_event/fb_2011_depthchart.pdf

Starting:
QB
X receiver
H receiver
Y receiver
Z receiver
Center
RB
DE
Will LB
Mike LB
Punt returner
Kick off returner


all Seniors/mostly 5th year seniors...

 

[Maverick1971]

Really, look it up... Who was starting for UofH and what classes were they a part of. Those little schools don't lose kids to attrition and the NFL like the big boys.

Shit ton of Seniors/5th year seniors on this 2 deep...

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools.../depth_chart_non_event/fb_2011_depthchart.pdf

Starting:
QB
X receiver
H receiver
Y receiver
Z receiver
Center
RB
DE
Will LB
Mike LB
Punt returner
Kick off returner


all Seniors/mostly 5th year seniors...

Spur,

That is good research and I applaud you for that. But serious question, not a flame. So a coach recruits players, has a great class and then leaves. OK, that coach was responsible for getting the players to campus. But exactly what did that coach do with them once they got there? Nothing, he's gone and usually his staff is too. After 4 years, whatever is done with those players is the responsibility of the coach and staff that are there IMO. Here are Briles class rankings before he left:

2005 #96
2006 #98
2007 #97
2008 #81

Here is what Sumlin left Levine:

2009 #66
2010 #48
2011 #80
2012 #63

 

[TexExSpur]

Spur,

That is good research and I applaud you for that. But serious question, not a flame. So a coach recruits players, has a great class and then leaves. OK, that coach was responsible for getting the players to campus. But exactly what did that coach do with them once they got there? Nothing, he's gone and usually his staff is too. After 4 years, whatever is done with those players is the responsibility of the coach and staff that are there IMO. Here are Briles class rankings before he left:

2005 #96
2006 #98
2007 #97
2008 #81

Here is what Sumlin left Levine:

2009 #66
2010 #48
2011 #80
2012 #63

Rankings don't mean near as much to me as talent evaluation (and development which Sumlin gets credit for), Briles was one of the best and has always won with less. Levine simply wasn't a good fit. The biggest benefit Sumlin had in that final season was the number of upper classmen on the team over talent. Those men were in the program for 4 to 5 years. IT plays a huge role.

Sumlin is a good coach, I don't think he is a great coach or recruiter. Sumlin was gifted an amazing OL roster and a generational talent at QB that allowed him to beat Bama in his inaugural season and earn his best record since taking the job, he hasn't done much with his recruits and the attrition is atrocious.